Ultra-Orthodox rabbis ban women from going to university

[n2doc]

Exclusive: The decree seen by The Independent warns ‘We will be very strict about this. No girls attending our school are allowed to study and get a degree. It is dangerous. Girls who will not abide will be forced to leave our school’

Siobhan Fenton, Dina Rickman

The decree was issued from the sect’s base in New York and will apply to followers of the faith group around the world.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews follow a pre-enlightenment interpretation of traditional Judaism and discourage interaction with the modern or secular world. Men wear 19th century Eastern European dress including long black coats and black hats, while married women must dress modestly and cover their hair.

more
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ultra-orthodox-rabbis-ban-women-from-going-to-university-in-case-they-get-dangerous-secular-a7204171.html

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Girls may be forbidden but the poor quality of secular education of both genders

makes me wonder how any of their sect could qualify to be accepted into university.

Boys study the Talmud with just enough secular study in reading comprehension and arithmetic to get by in a trade. Girls barely get a decent reading program before they are concentrated in how to manage a kosher home.

I don't have the authority but I remember reading that the maximum level of education of these ultra-orthodox sects is sixth grade.

[leftynyc]

6. Maybe for some

But I know ultra orthodox women with college degrees and 2 with a JD (lawyers). They boys also get college educations so I have no idea what "sect" you could be talking about or how many are in it.

[no_hypocrisy]

17. I mean the specific sect referenced in the article.

[leftynyc]

19. I looked up how many

Satmar Jews (this particular sect of Ultra Orthodox) and it seems the numbers are 50,000 to 120,000. Not very many at all. I don't know any Satmars. I do know Hassidic (just for comparison, these number around 400,000) and Lubavitch Jews (both also Ultra Orthodox but not as rigid or strict). I couldn't worship that way but the ones I know were a lot more....I'm not sure the right word here is welcoming but they weren't what I was expecting at all.

[no_hypocrisy]

36. This is the source of my information, a girl who grew up in the Satmar Community.

https://www.amazon.com/Unorthodox-Scandalous-Rejection-Hasidic-Roots/dp/1439187010

[leftynyc]

58. Your source is ONE person?

May as well take Ayaan Hirsi Ali's case for how ALL Muslim communities are. Are you prepared to do that?

[KittyWampus]

77. Are Ultra Orthodox Yeshivas Providing Same Quality Education As Public Schools?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2016/01/29/january-29-2016-ultra-orthodox-yeshiva-controversy/28831/

You can read transcript but here is synopsis:

Are private yeshivas run by Hasidic Jewish sects providing students with an education equal to that of public schools? New York filmmaker Menachem Daum reports on accusations that ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools are failing to teach secular subjects that would help prepare students for jobs. A lawsuit alleges that some of these religious schools are not complying with New York state law by not teaching English, math, and science.

[snooper2]

2. more asshole fundies, I guess at least they aren't beheading people....

Just subjecting women to a life of breeding and cleaning dishes, like that is much better

[COLGATE4]

3. That's the beauty of this country. A relatively small group

of people choose how to live their lives- and, so long as they don't break the law, the government doesn't interfere with them.

[DLevine]

16. It's also a good thing people are free to criticize a group of people

who treat women as second class citizens.

[COLGATE4]

22. People criticize things all day long.

[phylny]

38. There's a relatively "small group" of Hasidic Jews that are wreaking havoc in

New York, from an ever-expanding footprint, to diverting water to their community to severely impacting social programs like WIC, SNAP, and Medicaid because their families are exponentially growing - they don't use birth control and many are at the poverty level.

Look up Kiryas Joel. I used to live about 20 minutes away, and the local communities surrounding KJ are fighting a losing battle.

ETA: The women cannot drive there, either.

[COLGATE4]

41. Maybe the government should look into some form

of isolating them, you know, keeping them away from all the rest of us. That 'ever-expanding footprint' is pretty dangerous and it's obvious that they don't care about their impact on social programs. They don't even use birth control! Maybe some kind of a wall...?

[phylny]

43. Ha ha. You are so funny!

Do some research on KJ and get back to me. The "footprint" that's ever expanding is straining the ecosystem, water, sewage, and those in charge pay no attention to things like building codes and NYS law. The village is annexing land against the wishes of surrounding townships and it's been a nightmare for surrounding communities that want to live without overcrowding. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being bullied by your next-door neighbors. The people who live near there have been through hell.

Do your research and then we'll talk.

?w=395

[jberryhill]

52. I think New York should have a look at Pennsylvania

And how accommodating the Amish has been a two-way street.

But, yes, the entanglement of the religious community and the broader civil community seems to have become a problem there.

Expanding the network of bike paths in NYC is the one that caught my interest. Sorry, folks, those are everybody's streets. The free society in which you can pursue your idea of life is the one that requires you to understand that it only works if it works for everybody.

[phylny]

64. I agree. The difference is that the Amish live in agricultural society and have acres

upon acres of land to accommodate their large families. Kiryas Joel, and other Hasidic communities, are in urban and suburban neighborhoods. The families do not use birth control and are often large. As the communities grow, they run out of space (and sewage capacity and water) and have been buying up land and basically intimidating the surrounding communities. They are a large voting bloc and generally get what they want from governmental officials who want that large bloc of votes.

In Brooklyn, someone put up signs asking for women to step aside for men. This is in Brooklyn, NY - part of New York City. I am all for religious freedom too, but that's freedom to practice your religion, not to force everyone around you to accommodate you and your religion.

[a la izquierda]

115. Acres of land to create puppy mills...

but alas, that's a different concern altogether.

[belcffub]

117. NY has a large Amish population as well

somewhere around 20,000... my next door neighbors are Amish and the Town across the valley from us is 80% Amish...

I am friends with my neighbors and have never had a problem with the Amish in general but I know around the state they have butted heads with local and state Government over codes and regulations many times...

[COLGATE4]

72. No, actually there's nothing funny about your complaints/

suggestions. It's all been said before and we have seen what results.

[KittyWampus]

80. Thanks, I think many DU'ers are clueless as to what's happening w/ultra Orthodox community.

At least in NY. I post about it occasionally in reply to others when it's topical.

[phylny]

110. We lived in Goshen until 2007 and were really not affected by it (except for the voting bloc),

but friends of ours in the Monroe-Woodbury High School area were just devastated by all the changes and backdoor deals.

[waddirum]

54. The government SHOULD interfere with them

and insist that all students [boys and girls] are educated in the core curriculum of english, science, mathematics, civics, etc.

[COLGATE4]

70. Not how it works in the United States.

[KittyWampus]

76. Actually, the ultra-orthodox community is into "breeding" like the Quiverfull bunch do...

and they move into areas and promptly undermine the public education system since they don't send their kids to public schools.

They also heavily use public assistance.

[COLGATE4]

81. As is their right as American citizens to do. nt

[KittyWampus]

85. And it's also the right of their neighbors and tax payers to have an opinion while

forming policy at the governmental level and reactions on a social level.

[COLGATE4]

86. Sure. If enough people are dissatisfied they can always

petition their government to change the law. However, unless and until the law is changed, they have a perfect right to continue to live as they see fit.

[Jerry442]

4. But at some point, extremely restrictions can become child abuse.

In the eyes of the law, the adults in these sects have freely chosen to stay there, but the children have not consented and cannot in a legal sense.

[backscatter712]

9. Exactly. These Torah-thumpers need legal pushback on this. n/t

[Iggo]

5. Sincerely held religious beliefs.

I'm supposed to respect those?

I don't think so.

[leftynyc]

7. So don't respect it

I doubt very much they care one way or another. As long as they don't push their crap on me, I couldn't possibly care less.

[longship]

11. No, they just push it on "their women"

Always a bad sign, a very bad sign. And always in the name of religion.

Screw them all.

[leftynyc]

14. They're free to leave

once they reach majority...just like the Amish.

[Humanist_Activist]

25. Depends on what you mean by "free"...

In insular communities such as this and the Amish, FDLS and others, even though they allow their children to leave, most don't because it is what they are familiar with and they want to maintain family connections that would be sacrificed to allow for such freedom. This is, simply put, not healthy and is cult-like if not outright cultish behavior. This is also why such communities are rife with child and adult abuse, women being treated as slaves, etc. Such behaviors shouldn't be tolerated, despite their religious beliefs.

[leftynyc]

29. None of what you posted

in any way whatsoever changes the fact they are free to leave if they wish. Whether they decide it's worth it to them to leave their community behind is besides the point.

[Humanist_Activist]

44. You seem to disregard a lot of issues that occur within insular communities that...

find ways to discourage freedom in the way you describe. After all, these children are usually raised in environments that are already severely restricted and controlled. They are conditioned, for lack of a better word, into thinking that their community religion and family are far more important than their freedom. Not to mention there pushing of isolationism to the extent of attacking, sometimes violently, people they perceive as outsiders, etc.

Not to mention the issues surrounding their communities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York

[leftynyc]

59. I'm not disregarding anything

I'm saying they're free to leave - and they are. Nobody will beat them, nobody will throw acid at them, nobody will kill them. There are problems in those communities like in all communities. What does any of that has to do with whether these people are free to leave?

[Marr]

73. You couldn't care less about the women who live in groups like this?

You either care about equal rights and free thought or you don't.

Saying 'they can leave if they don't like it' is like saying sweatshop workers 'can leave if they don't like it'.

[leftynyc]

74. If they stay after their majority

my assumption is they wish to stay since nobody is FORCING them. I don't tell other people how to worship and live their lives. For Heaven's sake, we're talking about not being able to go to college - not getting beaten for leaving their homes without a male relative, not getting their genitals mutilated, not getting acid thrown in their faces. If they stay in a community that doesn't want them in college and they stay, who the fuck am I to tell them they HAVE TO WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE?

[Marr]

98. Fair enough.

For the record, I'm not advocating any action here. People are, of course, free to live any way they choose and ultimately, I suppose the individual really is responsible for seeing to their own best interests in cases like this.

I do think, however, that it's unfortunate that such antiquated and sexist ideas can continue to persist in conservative religious environments. They're like refrigerators for thought.

[leftynyc]

106. We are in complete agreement about that

All religious fundy's work my last nerve. That doesn't mean they're all the same.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. And when will they prevent women from driving,

force them to wear burkas, and start lashing women for talking back?

The ultras resemble the Saudis more and more with each passing day.

[leftynyc]

10. Spare me the hyperbole

Since Jews have been practicing their religion for over 3000 years, I'm guessing the answer to your question is NEVER. These kids are free to leave their "sects" when they reach majority - nobody will beat them or force them to cover from head to toe EVER or I would think it would have come up by now. So do feel free to let everyone know when they're genitals are mutilated, when they're beaten in the streets for showing their ankles - THEN you get to compare them to Saudi Arabia.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. The hyperbole? It's in this article - last year, in north London

Last year, it emerged that some ultra-Orthodox Jews in north London had banned women from driving, citing concerns that it was immodest for them to do so.

[leftynyc]

60. And that compares to

whether they get beaten in the streets for showing an ankle exactly how? Saudi women cannot LEAVE THEIR HOMES without a male relative. If their problems with Saudis were merely they couldn't go to college or drive, they would consider that a massive improvement (most girls don't even go to grade school) over their lives now. The hyperbole is comparing this community to a community that mutilates girls and treats them as virtual slaves their entire lives.

[trotsky]

67. "Yeah but they're worse" isn't a defense for unacceptable treatment of women. n/t

[leftynyc]

69. When you make a ridiculous comparison

like that, you deserve every bit of pushback you're getting. I see it all over this thread. The desperation to make this teeny community an excuse for the way hundreds of millions of Muslim women are treated which is magnitudes worse on every single level. It's disgusting.

[trotsky]

79. I don't see it as an excuse for anything.

I also don't see why just because one example is worse than another that we aren't allowed to discuss both and the commonalities they share (namely, patriarchal religion).

[leftynyc]

82. Are you saying you don't see

people claiming it's just a matter of time before this teeny non-representative group of Orthodox Jews start chopping the heads off people? I think that's an actual quote from this thread.

[trotsky]

83. I searched the thread for the words "chop" and "head" and the only one that had them was yours.

So yes, please point out the post that makes such a claim. I'd like to see what was stated.

[Humanist_Activist]

87. Exactly, she's making up hyperbole where hardly any exists...

and was shot down about the "women not allowed to drive" considering that is literally one of this sects rules.

[leftynyc]

90. Try posts

#2, #8 and #26 and then get back to me about hyperbole.

[leftynyc]

88. You didn't search shit

Try post #2, #8 AND #26.

[trotsky]

97. OK I tried those posts.

#2 says "at least they aren't beheading people." Doesn't say what you claim.

#8 says nothing about beheading. Doesn't say what you claim.

#26 comes closest to what you claim, but isn't an "actual quote" like you said.

Three strikes, you know what they say.

[Humanist_Activist]

103. Not to mention number 8 is amusing because they actually do forbid women from driving...

and if they did have power in governments greater than local villages and towns, they would attempt to enforce such bans.

[Humanist_Activist]

45. This particular sect is only a little over 100 years old. Also, I like your assumption that...

they are free to leave anytime they want. Only if they don't want to be shunned by the people that raised them, or suffer abuse at their hands. You should look up some of the stories of this particular sect. Truly horrifying stuff.

[leftynyc]

61. They are free to leave when they reach

majority which is exactly the same as the Amish. So they get shunned? BFD. You know what I find horrifying? Women who get mutilated, women who are treated as virtual slaves to their male relatives, women who can't walk outside without a male relative, women who NEVER go to school at all, women who cannot vote, women who will get killed or acid thrown at them. You want to talk about THIS community, I'll be happy to tell you how disgusting I find their way of life. It's only when you want to compare them to Saudi Arabia that I put a stop to that madness.

[Humanist_Activist]

92. So wait, this sect does treat their women like virtual slaves to men...

In addition, given the actions of this sect that are also condoned by the leadership, I wouldn't be surprised if they practiced "physical discipline" on their children and women.

So basically everything other type of abuse is acceptable as long as they don't outright kill girls and women?

[leftynyc]

93. Can slaves leave?

Did I say I was disgusted by their way of life? If you don't want to be called on stupid comparisons then don't make them.

[Humanist_Activist]

95. You do understand the difference between virtual and actual, right?

Remember, these girls are married off early, controlled, hardly allowed to even know english in many cases, many times not allowed out in public, and yet you say they are free.

[leftynyc]

100. I said they're free to LEAVE

and they are. And yes, I do understand the difference between actual and virtual. The comparison of this group to Saudi Arabia is nothing but complete bullshit and I'll call it out every single time.

[Humanist_Activist]

108. You keep harping on that, and I keep pointing out that, without assistance...

most of the time, it would be next to impossible for them to leave. Sure its possible, but the Hasidic community isn't above even kidnapping children to get their way.

[phylny]

39. The women in Kiryas Joel, (Satmar Hasidic) cannot drive, are restricted in their clothing,

although I don't think that domestic abuse is part of the equation.

They have a sign at the outskirts of the village asking women who come into the community to dress modestly.

In Brooklyn, there's a sign asking women to step aside for men.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

40. When I lived in NW Chicago,

A large group of Hasidic Jews lived a few buildings away. While they tolerated me, they cast their fingers at my wife each time they walked by. They would never make eye contact with her. Ever.

And then their chief rabbi crushed my driver side door and rear quarter panel trying to park (I suspect he was drunk) and then drove away. It wasn't until another neighbor witnessed it and left them a note did he fess up and apologize.

It was a clash of cultures In which we were far more tolerant than they.

Reminds me of some of the less evolved Christians I've had to deal with in the south. Especially when I was learning blacksmithing. That snake handling church was scary outside of Asheville, but their members were absolutely nuts.

[struggle4progress]

12. The Hasidic sects were almost obliterated in the Shoah

There might be 100000 Satmar in the world today, mostly in the US and UK

What's the point of attacking or ridiculing their beliefs?

[COLGATE4]

23. None. They're just easy targets for attack or ridicule.

(Just like some years ago...)

[Humanist_Activist]

27. Oh please, don't go down that hole, we should criticize misogynists...

homophobes, and other extremists regardless of where they reside or what religion they practice.

[COLGATE4]

28. Don't hurt yourself

climbing down from your moral high horse.

[Humanist_Activist]

50. You know what, I do have the moral high ground here...

look up the practices of this sect and get back to me.

[obamanut2012]

63. You do have the high moral ground

They are terrifyingly homophobic and misogynistic and racist, and we support that via our tax dollars. I'll also put the Amish in there, too. I mean, just what they do re: the NYC Marathon, and how they want women to sit in the back of the bus on PUBLIC transportation are two tiny examples of this.

Almost being exterminated in the Holocaust doesn't give them carte blanche to act like this. I really don't care if people are offended by that statement -- I am so angry at people being allowed to mistreat women systematically and have it handwaved away.

I don't get some on this thread defending them. They shouldn't be defended.

[leftynyc]

65. NOBODY is defending their practices

If you want to link to any comment in this thread that is defending them, serve it up. All I see is pushing back on the notion that this sect is the exact same as the Saudis. That comparison is patently ridiculous.

[obamanut2012]

66. Some people in this thread absolutely are

I have no idea why you think I was referencing you. I think you need to rethink how you are responding to me, because it really is over the line.

[leftynyc]

68. I don't think it's over the line at all

I read every single comment and there is NOBODY defending them. I stand by my comment 100%.

[Humanist_Activist]

89. Has anyone argued that, you keep bringing up strawmen, do you have any actual arguments...

and how are you not defending them?

[leftynyc]

91. Where am I defending them?

Let's start there.

[Humanist_Activist]

94. By keeping bringing up that their girls and women have freedom, minimizing the type of abuses...

that occur in this community.

Take this in aggregate, rather than isolation, this isn't just about them forbidding girls from going to college, there are a lot of other issues involved, such as harassing women "dressed inappropriately" in their neighborhoods, forbidding women from driving, arranged marriages, etc.

Here's a window into the community:

http://nypost.com/2012/02/07/i-was-a-hasidic-jew-but-i-broke-free/

Do I think they represent some type of threat to the United States? No, but just like the Amish, or the FDLS, they are a small group of concern and we should find ways to reduce their misogyny. They don't carry influence enough to change state or national laws, hence why, on balance, I'm more concerned about Conservative Christians in this country.

[leftynyc]

99. They're free to LEAVE

which is merely the truth. I've already expressed my disgust for their way of life. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if there wasn't those who feel the need to MINIMIZE what women in Saudi Arabia go through by claiming this is the same...or on their way to being the same. I'm only fighting against those ridiculous comparisons - I don't defend this group's practices AT ALL.

[Humanist_Activist]

101. They are free to leave in the same way battered spouses are free to leave...

go ahead, keep it up. You a shining example of blaming the victim.

Do I agree that some of the comparisons are over the top, to a certain extent yes, but further minimizing what is actually occurring is inexcusable.

And really, where have you expressed your disgust?

[leftynyc]

105. Where have I expressed disgust?

Try post #61 at around 5:30 this morning. In answer to ONE OF YOUR POSTS.

[Humanist_Activist]

107. Uhm, in that post you literally made a comparison to Saudi Arabia to say they weren't as bad...

therefore we shouldn't criticize them or something like that. Oh, and you didn't post what you found disgusting about them, just that you will be happy to tell us how disgusting you find them. There's a difference there.

And, as illustrated by your post #7, you apparently lack empathy for oppressed women, why should I give a fuck about a misogynist apologist?

[leftynyc]

109. Now you're just

being petty and mischaracterizing my posts which makes you thoroughly dishonest. I post stories about women getting abused all the time here. I objected to the FALSE and RIDICULOUS comparisons with Saudi Arabia. I made you look foolish and you're pissed about it. I'm done here. Feel free to have the last word because I no longer give a crap.

[kcr]

113. YES they are absolutely defending them

Oh well they can leave when they're adults so stop picking on them! That's a defense right there. Not to mention the accusations of attack and ridicule.

[leftynyc]

114. If you think you can

make a case for child abuse on the basis of not allowing ADULTS to go to college, knock yourself out. Pointing out that they're not slaves and can leave if they wish is not defending them. Just pointing out the obvious.

[COLGATE4]

71. Keep telling yourself that and you may

even come to believe it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

42. See my post above.

If they want respect, they may want to try to earn it.

[Warpy]

32. I'm perfectly willing to let people believe whatever nonsense they want to

as long as that nonsense isn't doing real world harm to people.

This harms women. Sadly, they've got plenty of company among other fundamentalists and zealots.

A fundy is a fundy is a fundy and they all seem to declare war against women.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. The point of ridiculing them is to make them feel bad, if they ever hear about it

because they are hobbling their daughters, on purpose. They are backward misogynists, and such backward attitudes should be ridiculed. Ridicule may also discourage other sects or groups who might be tempted to mistreat their daughters in the same way.

[Humanist_Activist]

46. Because their beliefs are misogynistic?

Are we supposed to all of the sudden tolerate misogyny because the source for it is religion?

[a la izquierda]

116. That many Hasidic sects treat women like dog shit?

Women cannot get divorced without a "get." http://www.newsweek.com/divorce-orthodox-jewish-community-can-be-brutal-degrading-and-endless-3082

So...yeah. I don't care about their religious beliefs at all (my aunt, uncle, and cousins are all Reformed Jewish and I've been to temple a zillion times) except when, you know, they make women's lives generally miserable.

[WhiteTara]

13. More old men terrified of smart women nt

[3catwoman3]

15. I remember, some years ago, reading an article...

...about how it was possible to be an Orthodox woman and still be a feminist/liberated. I confess to having been dubious.

[leftynyc]

20. There are many sects

of Orthodox Judaism. I can attest to some being feminists because I actually know them. I went into it feeling the same way you do...dubious. But I learned a valuable lesson - not all very religious people are judgmental assholes.

[COLGATE4]

24. The group referred to is a very conservative group

within the much larger group known as Orthodox Jews. There aren't many of them.

[leftyladyfrommo]

112. I think there is a big difference between Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox.

The Ultra Orthodox remind me a lot of the Old Order Amish. I respect their right to practice their religion but I really disagree with them.

[annabanana]

18. fundamentalism of any stripe

is a cancer on the body politic

[rockfordfile]

21. I agree. Just say no to religion.

Religious extremist are un-American.

[annabanana]

35. I have no quibble with a benign belief system.

It's the "No one but (fill in the blank) gets into heaven." thing

[Calculating]

26. Almost as bad as fundie Islamics

At least they're not beheading gays...Yet.

[leftynyc]

30. Not even close

So don't even go there....you'll only look foolish.

[hunter]

31. Oh thank God, at last, a group I can let my inner anti-semitism out against!

Too many people renounce religion without renouncing the most disturbing aspects of their renounced religion's culture.

Bigotry and intolerance carry on, with or without gods.

There are religions and subsets of those religions I dislike intensely, just as there are atheist groups I dislike (all the old misogyny without the church, hooray!)

Friction between people of differing religious beliefs, or no religious beliefs at all, is one of the things that make life interesting.

Yes, some religious beliefs are harmful. So are many secular beliefs.

But somehow we first attack the groups we traditionally despise.

You know, the mote in our neighbor's eye vs. the beam in our own...

[Humanist_Activist]

47. I'm sorry, that's bullshit, while we should freely acknowledge problems within all communities....

with misogyny, homophobia and other bigotries. Just because some members of some communities have these problems doesn't negate that we should criticize others, particularly when they are demonstrably worse.

[hunter]

48. I can criticize anyone. And I do.

Some days I hate everyone including myself.

It's not a good way to make friends and allies.

Antisemitic atheists are a dime a dozen. Hell, here in the U.S.A. these days, it's harder to find antisemitic Catholics. The Mel Gibson sorts are an endangered species.

Don't mind me. Bashing Creationists is one of my favorite recreations, maybe because so many of them are also terrified by LGBT people. A rainbow flag is like garlic to a vampire.

Attacking tiny cults who are mostly harmless isn't good sport.

I'd rather pick a fight with the Pope than Tom Cruise.

[Humanist_Activist]

49. Yeah, mostly harmless...

Shades of Saudi Religious police:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/modest-satmar-patrol-article-1.1270419

http://nypost.com/2016/08/23/man-accused-of-vicious-homophobic-attack-goes-to-trial/

Here's a particularly egregious practice:

http://gothamist.com/2015/09/09/snip_n_suck_circumcision.php

I find your excuses disingenuous in the extreme. Find any organized atheist group guilty of practices even remotely as awful as these.

In addition, I strongly doubt your claim that there are more Anti-Semitic Atheists than Anti-Semitic Catholics. Show some proof of this assertion.

I will grant that much of this issue is localized due to the cloistered nature and small numbers of these Ultra-Orthodox, Hasidic Jews, but the fact is that we will happily go after members of practically any other group that held similar practices or beliefs.

[hunter]

51. I'm more afraid of the cops.

There's no shortage of channels for my own rage and that rage is never purely just. That's why I frequently question the motives of others.

"Conservative" U.S. Catholics these days are Israel's best friend.

Check this out:

Torah and Gospel

JUDAISM AND THE MODERN ATTITUDE TO HOMOS...

In remaining true to the sources of Jewish tradition. Jews are commanded to avoid the madness that seizes society at various times and in many forms, while yet retaining a moral composure and psychological equilibrium sufficient to exercise that comb...

http://www.catholicsforisrael.com/

Okay, yes I did pick a freaky site, but I meet old farts who are still bitching about Vatican II who now believe the Jewish people will be running point guard in their quest for salvation.

Probably because they listen to AM hate radio just like the other wing-nut Christians.

[Humanist_Activist]

53. There's more reason to be afraid of cops, I would also suggest you stop projecting...

your own issues on others.

You unfairly characterized the criticism of misogyny as Anti-Semitism, don't do that.

Not to mention there's a whole world of difference between being pro-Israel because your eschatology demands the rebuilding the Temple to usher in the apocalypse, and not being Anti-Semitic. Having listened to many right wing radical Christians, they are usually both Anti-Semitic and Pro-Israel, with a general belief that the Jews will either convert or go to hell when Jesus returns, etc. And again, this group, who I never really heard of, isn't an example of there being less Anti-Semites among Catholics than among Atheists.

[hunter]

56. When I criticize a certain limited group of atheists...

... why do you think I'm talking about you?

People can dis moron racist "All Lives Matter" white guys all day and I don't in the name of white guys take offense.

Frankly, those white guys are not my team. They used to call me "queerbait" and beat me bloody in middle and high school.

Every group has a subgroup of assholes, even atheists.

If it makes you feel any better, I am by inclination and some formal training, an amateur evolutionary biologist. A Humanist too. And a socialist.

The small petty god so many people seem to trust (it even says so on our money!), the one who watches you while you masturbate, and makes the football team who prays best win, the one who was apparently very drunk the day he created us, well, he's an asshole too.

[Humanist_Activist]

57. But what was the point of bringing it up in the first place....

No one on this thread generalizing this belief to be shared among all Jews. I would assume we are nuanced enough to know this is a small sect within Judaism.

[hunter]

75. I'm bringing this up because antisemitism is such a common thing.

It's exactly as I said. As much as they deny it, a certain number of people condemning this group will be motivated by antisemitism.

One sees the same sort of discussion when a few bad apples turn up in the black community, or the LGBT community.

My favorites are the "All religion bad!" folks who somehow only show up when there's a small group they can judge, knowing they won't get any blowback.

It reminds me how I don't believe in time. I am an achronist. All you people who believe in time can take your precious clocks and shove them up...

[Ilsa]

37. Fucking cowards. NT

[6chars]

55. Satmars are ~3% of orthodox Jews

Who are about 12% of all Jews who are about 0.2% of the world. They are anti Israel and off in their own world. They get outsized attention from the Jew fetishists.

[leftynyc]

62. They do deserve the scorn

as do any religious fanatics - especially when it comes to their behavior towards women. It the desperation of so many so called liberals to compare this teeny group to the millions of women in Saudi Arabia whose lives would be paradise if their only problem was not being able to go to college. The comparison is so fucking ridiculous I can't believe I have to comment on it on a so called liberal board.

[Humanist_Activist]

96. Yeah, that's not happening, try again in minimizing misogyny and abuse. n/t

[leftynyc]

102. Bullshit

What you don't seem to realize with the ridiculous comparisons is that YOU are the one minimizing what's happening to women in Saudi Arabia (and hundreds of millions of other women in Muslim countries). They would LOVE for their only problem to be they can't go to college.

[Humanist_Activist]

104. Oh please, I didn't make such direct comparisons, so it doesn't even apply to me...

but more than that, its interesting that you are keeping the focus narrow, to the subject of the OP, and not to the other misogynistic issues of the Satmar community which you seem to ignore. Again, minimizing and excusing misogyny.

[Cary]

78. I cannot say anything good about fundamentalism of any kind

[Mosby]

111. I'm surprised that DUers don't support the Satmars

Anti-Zionist Hasidic kids pelt eggs at mock Netanyahu car in anti-Israel protest

http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-zionist-hasidic-kids-pelt-eggs-at-mock-netanyahu-car-in-anti-israel-protest/

The Satmar Hasidic movement has long been famous for, among other things, its opposition to Zionism and the state of Israel. In the video below, published last week by the Yeshiva World News, children at two Satmar day camps can be seen being led in protests against Israel.