'Dead or Alive' VR is basically sexual assault, the game

[steve2470]

https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/29/dead-or-alive-vr-is-basically-sexual-assault-the-game/

PlayStation VR is going to launch with a game that allows players to sexually assault a woman who is actively asking them to stop. Yes, that's exactly as gross as it sounds and yes, of course the game is Dead or Alive Xtreme 3. The game's virtual reality update is slated to launch on the same day as PlayStation VR, and features a handful of experiences designed to let players ogle the female body. A video from Gamer.ne.jp shows that one of these game modes features active harassment -- allowing a player to continually touch a woman who is verbally protesting.

Watching a grown man grope a bikini model in virtual reality is awkward enough in its own right, but listening to the video's dialogue makes it worse. As the player pokes and prods Kasumi's body with the PlayStation 4's motion controller, she tells him "I don't like it," and uses a word that directly translates to "bad" that is often used to flatly deny permission. The player persists, and the character naturally recoils. We did too -- it's a blatantly sexist and aggressive experience.

We've come to expect over-the-top, sexist gameplay from Dead or Alive's beach volleyball spinoffs, but denial of consent being part of Xtreme 3's VR gameplay takes the series to a new low. For the target market, this may well be part of the fantasy, but seeing that power fantasy played out on this console cycle's biggest hardware platform is pretty disturbing. The developers know it, too -- Koei Tecmo long ago decided that Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 might be too sexist for the US market. Well, they're not wrong.

[ret5hd]

2. What brought you here?

[nolabels]

7. It was the only the second worst thing i had seen in the last twenty-four hours

[bAsteroid's 'bad timing' killed off dinosaurs, new evidence shows]

[stonecutter357]

3. so rape is a good thing?

that is some fucked up shit.

[Orrex]

5. Not rape--it's violently non-consensual sexual contact

Hey, wait a minute--that is rape!

Reply #1 is about as fucked up as anything I've ever read on DU.

[GermanSmoker]

8. It's a video game...

... not reality. I learned the difference between between fiction and reality as a young child.

[jmg257]

12. Hmm...curious - do you get off on such lack of western sensibilities?

It sure seems that is the audience such 'games' would attract.

[Orrex]

13. That must have been several days ago, at least

You tritely describe opposition to rape as "western sensibilities," and "as a gamer" you see rejection of those "western sensibilities" "as a good thing."

[GermanSmoker]

14. I have opposition...

...to real rape. Like every sane person. The virtual one has nothing to do with it.

[Orrex]

15. But that's not how you framed your reply #1

I'm sure that you don't see it that way, and I'm sure that having it pointed out to you will only cement your believe that you're correct. More's the pity.

You can reflect upon this and say "yeah, maybe I could have been more thoughtful in my phrasing," or you can continue to pretend that you're right and that people who take issue with your expressed sentiment are unable to distinguish games from reality.

[GermanSmoker]

16. Then you should read more carefully

I only talked aboute the game. Everything else you read into it.

[Orrex]

20. Nope, try again.

The OP was about portrayals of rape, not a discussion of games versus reality. I know that you want the discussion to be exclusively about gaming, and the next time the schoolbus drops you off at Gamestop you can continue to discuss gaming exclusively.

But the current discussion is about a permissive attitude toward rape, an attitude which you embraced by dismissing "western sensibilities on the subject."

Again, I know that this will only strengthen your mistaken belief that you're correct, but perhaps you'll figure it out eventually.

[GermanSmoker]

23. "portrayals of rape"

Like in a video game. And I don't go to school or university anymore.

[Orrex]

47. Perhaps you should

As noted previously, I know that this discussion only deepens your misperception that you're correct.

Can we skip to the end where you have an epiphany and realize that your posts don't convey what you think they do?

Or must we instead skip to the end where you cover your ears and insist everyone else is wrong while you retreat to the basement to fondle your video games?

[Shankapotomus]

53. As originally just an outside observer to the thread

My immediate understanding was he/she wasn't condoning rape but making a point about being consistent.

After all, how could rape, bsmd? scenarios not be banned in porn yet there be calls to ban or stop them in games sold only to adults?

And then he/she posts only a picture to show that some other crap exists and gets accused of wanting to view such content themself.

This whole thread seems a bit hysterical from the outside.

[Orrex]

55. You give that poster more credit than he deserves

You may be correct in your interpretation of his intent, but his post didn't come across that way, and instead it looked exactly like a casual dismissal of concerns about attitudes toward rape.

I'm repeatedly on record on DU arguing against bans on pornographic imagery (even violent pornographic imagery) in which all participants are consenting adults. It's not to my taste, but I'm hardly the gatekeeper.

Since I took the OP as a commentary on casual attitudes toward actual rape, rather than artistic representations of it, the deleted post looked clearly like a dismissal of actual concerns about actual rape. The poster's subsequent "you're all delusional children" attitude didn't help, either.


"Hysterical." Sure. Maybe my womb is wandering around inside my body and confusing my other organs.

Judging by the fact that Reply #1 was deleted, I'd have to guess that a majority of jurors were equally "hysterical."

[cleanhippie]

24. You think that sexual assault in games is ok. You said so, and that's fucked up.

Opposition to sexual assault is a human sensibility, and if you or Japanese gamemakers think that sexual assault is ok under ANY context, you can fuck right off with that bullshit.
That you choose to be intentionally obtuse about your statement and what it implies tells readers that you are a sick and fucked up individual.


To the jury: look at this posters first reply, response #1. He says that sexual assault is a "western sensibility" that Japanese gamemakers don't have and that's a good thing because, well, reasons! When advocating sexual assault, be it in real life or a video game, becomes acceptable in DU, just fucking ban me already.

[GermanSmoker]

26. So your are also against...

...any form of violence in pornography(Where the actors are participating willingly)? And in video games they are not even humans, they are pixels.

[cleanhippie]

29. What consenting adults do is their business. You advocate for non-consensual, interactive assault.

There's a difference, and that you are unable or unwilling to see it speaks volumes about you.
Again, fuck off with that bullshit. You're part of the problem.

[GermanSmoker]

31. Who get's assaulted?

If you give me that virtual persons adress I apolagize to her in person.

[GermanSmoker]

39. Whrere?

Where did I call out for anyones sexual assault? Of course, you're running out of arguments so lets call the mods.

[anoNY42]

45. It's not that you're wrong to call someone out for advocating assault

it's that you are wrong on the basic fact that GermanSmoker is advocating assault in the first place. He is talking about video games, which is what the OP was about.

[cleanhippie]

48. Non-consensual sexual assault is ok in video games?

Seriously?

[anoNY42]

49. It is just as "ok" as other types of violence in video games

I can go kill humans in Skyrim, but that doesn't mean I am committing any moral infraction...

[cleanhippie]

50. sigh.

This is what's wrong with the world.

[anoNY42]

51. You might as well ban Marilyn Manson, Tipper...

[cleanhippie]

52. Fuck you, I'm no tipper gore. I just know that sexual assault has no place in society.

Be it real life or video games. Video games aren't art. They contain art, sure, but they are interactive, and in this case interactive virtual-reality that advocates non-consensual sex and assault.
So take your ad hom name calling and fuck right off. You opened that door.

[anoNY42]

57. Insult and abuse.

You are pretty angry for a hippie!

[Shankapotomus]

58. How do you feel about

non-consensual killing in video games? If you ban that the whole industry would practically disappear.

Don't get me wrong. I'd be fine if humanity evolved to a point where all violence and virtual violence disappeared.

[cleanhippie]

63. Sigh. That the difference isn't apparent to some makes me sad.

What a miserable lot we are.

[Shankapotomus]

69. There are a number of differences

But also a glaring similarity that you seem to be missing.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

4. Geesh.

I'm going to assume you don't have a wife or daughter or sisters and you hate your mother.

Don't bother to correct me.

[mindfulNJ]

6. wait...what?

The Japanese condone rape???

This is news to me...but I'm not a "gamer"

[GermanSmoker]

9. The japanese brought us also this classic.

The title speaks for itself. And it's also just a game.

[Mc Mike]

46. Well, I can't alert on you, due to some dynamic ajax content loading error.

But hopefully, MIRT will be on it's way, and usher you on back to 4chan or 8chan or wherever.

[Frank Cannon]

10. Please elaborate on this peculiar viewpoint of yours.

I'm pretty sure even the most fervent cultural relativists on this board share a pronounced disdain for rape.

[GermanSmoker]

11. Of course

But this is fictional and falls under "Freedom of expression" and "artistic freedom". Also, more realistic, in BDSM and rape porn the women(Or men) are not really forced to do anything against their will. The rape in real life is something fundamentaly different.

[ismnotwasm]

27. Are you a gamergater?

[GermanSmoker]

30. Are you Anita Sarkeesian?

Let's put it this way. I'm aware of the whole Gamergate situation cause my mainboard where I hang is 4Chan.

[ismnotwasm]

34. So that would be yes

Okey dokey.

[steve2470]

40. I'm sorry, I'm also a gamer and I think this game is some very fucked up shit

I don't care if it's from Somalia or Japan or the USA, it's fucked up.

[DLevine]

17. You'd have to be seriously fucked up to enjoy that shit.

What's next, a game where you get to molest little kids?

[GermanSmoker]

18. There are games outthere

Only found mangas in the lolicon category during a quick google search.

[Orrex]

21. IKR?

[GermanSmoker]

22. Have I said that I read that stuff?

You asked a question and I answered it. I'm more into the Hentai stuff myself. Big breasted women, tentacles etc.

[GermanSmoker]

28. Yeah...

and erverybody who plays first person shooters and watches violent movies goes on a shooting spree. You sound like a right winger.

[LanternWaste]

62. No doubt, you'll allege yourself to be sincere, respectful and honest.

No doubt, you'll allege yourself to be sincere, respectful and honest.

[steve2470]

64. sincere respectful question

Why do you repeat your text ? I've seen you do it for years and ok, finally, I have to ask.

[anoNY42]

32. What is this game about, anyway?

Some googling only told me that you are running a beach resort with a bunch of women, and you can touch them? Is that all you do in the game?

[steve2470]

37. wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_3

[GermanSmoker]

38. Nope

It's mostly Beachvolleyball.

[anoNY42]

43. They named a volleyball game "Dead or Alive"?

I think the title is what is throwing me off, heh!

[GermanSmoker]

44. It's a spin-off

from the Beat'Em Up series.

[MicaelS]

33. The Japanese do stuff like this.

There is / was a black and white manga called "Rapeman". And yes it is as disgusting as it sounds, and no, I am not going to link to it.

Considering the rise in female only subway cars, because of males behavior toward females in the subway, Japanese males are still engaging in putrid acts.

[jmg257]

54. When I was in Japan groping on trains was a big issue...those sick fuckers* don't give a shit

*Obviously not all are like this.

Enough to hear about tej issue constantly.

[Humanist_Activist]

71. Most gamers are in their 30s and 40s now, and if Pokemon Go is any indication...

it can cut through a huge swath of the population.

This game though, is an example of Japanese weirdness.

For me, a good VR game would be something immersive and different.

http://www.keeptalkinggame.com/

Or something like Dying Light in VR, that would be amazing.

[milestogo]

36. Gaming is an adolescent waste of time.

And this type of game is a particularly bad influence on adolescents, who are not mature.

[Godhumor]

60. Ooh, scorching hot take there

But do go on.

[MicaelS]

72. Why don't you try and peddle that

To the millions of people of all ages around the world playing Pokemon Go?



In the meantime we'll make sure the neighbourhood kids stay off your lawn.

[Shankapotomus]

42. I'll only say this

I do not buy or play these games but the rest of this thread is filled with replies of presumptuous misunderstandings.

I implore everyone to slow down and read carefully before replying.

[closeupready]

56. In the film "High Plains Drifter," Clint Eastwood plays a man who rapes a woman

in the village, early in the film. Which makes him an anti-hero, I presume.

This wasn't a documentary so he didn't REALLY rape her, but in attempting to watch the film recently, I got to that scene and couldn't continue, and deleted it.

But I'm curious if anyone here can explain the purpose of the scene?

Acts of violence - rape, murder, torture - are depicted in works of fiction for a number of reasons.

Today is the first time I've heard of either this software company or the game title.

[Orrex]

59. Been quite a while since I saw that film, so bear with me

If memory serves (and Wiki helps to refresh the memory), he rapes her after she "deliberately bumps into him,' i.e., after she assaults him, and this occurs immediately after he's killed three men in self-defense. We can infer that on-edge and on the defensive after the attempt on his life, so his reaction comes in response to life-threatening violence against him.

In reality I don't condone that response, and in reality the woman certainly isn't "asking for it," but in the context of the film, that's how I read the sequence of events.

As for the "purpose of the scene," how specific an explanation do you need? Is it sufficient to say that it establishes the violence of the setting and the stranger's response to violence? Might it simply be intended to establish him as the anti-hero, as you note?
Or might be that the "purpose" is to demonstrate (hopefully) that the setting is greatly removed from our modern sensibilities? Probably not that last one, honestly, since casual rape imagery was commonplace in media and entertainment of the time.

On balance, debating the purpose of a scene is often less fruitful than discussing the effect of that scene. What, in your assessment, is the effect of the scene?

[closeupready]

61. On the one hand, there is a tone to the scene that's funny -

She - dressed up in fancy lace and using 'high class' English - gets physical first, insults him, mocks his manhood, all while he keeps his cool. Then, finally he drags her into the barn and rapes her, and as I recall, we hear her moaning in pleasure.

The intended effect I think was to portray him as a kind of Billy the Kid - the outlaw no man can beat, no woman can resist. That Wild, Wild West archetype.

Another film from that era - Westworld - had the fantasy settings in which customers could rape at will, i.e., for the price of admittance, they could kill and rape to their heart's content, and it was legal because they were all robots.

But more generally, the point is that acts of violence in works of fiction or other kinds of popular entertainment can serve a purpose. Cheers.

[Orrex]

65. Good analysis

And good discussion--thanks!

[closeupready]

70. I always enjoy e-chatting with you, Orrex.

You are one of the good ones here.

[linuxman]

66. So? Grand theft auto is basically "Murder, the game".

Are you okay with murdering innocents in video games? If so, why? Isn't murder worse? If not, why? what limits would you like to see put on video games?

Must be a slow news week.

[steve2470]

67. meh I think this game is far worse than GTA but I'm not in favor of anything legal....

GTA is bad, yes. Let's keep the discussion confined to THIS game. Good day sir.

[linuxman]

68. Why?

Is murder worse than sexual assault in real life? I'd say yes. Is the reverse true in a game for some reason? I'd say no.

The conversation is confined to this game. I'm just bringing up other games where you can commit real-world illegal acts as a comparison.