Three things cannot be long hidden:

[kentuck]

[alfredo]

1. One more from John Lennon

[malaise]

2. I've always loved that one

[alfredo]

8. That was from his Primal Therapy years.

[Hortensis]

3. They can all be hidden from those who can be fooled

all the time. That's because they insist on it and will connive as necessary to make it happen.

But then there are all the others.

[Wounded Bear]

4. Willful ignorance is a tough nut to crack....

[Hortensis]

5. Usually way too tough to invest the effort. Seriously.

I of course still believe in the tremendous value and absolute necessity of good education to democracy, but I now understand that there are some who will never be taught to seek, respect, or even accept any truth that doesn't fit the picture they've chosen.

[awoke_in_2003]

6. Yep

and a large dose of Doublethink.

[Taitertots]

7. 4) A Boner n/t

[Rex]

9. Humans always knew the truth

and just didn't give a fuck. We never seem to learn from history.

[Hortensis]

10. Hey, speak for yourself. Most of us have

at least some capacity and some a great deal. We have wise people. That's why we advance.

[Rex]

11. I would never speak for the people here, just what history tells us.

And we (as a species, think bigger here) never learn or when we do we just say 'fuck it' and move on. See climate change for a reference...smart people are already screaming from the rooftops, does it make a difference? Very little.

[bettyellen]

12. Well women and POC will beg to differ. The advances we have made in the last century -

Overcoming the worst of human nature- are just now coming to fruitation. Slow, yes but we are moving a rock set in place many many centuries ago. That's kind of why we understand change has to be incremental.

[Rex]

13. Yeah just in time to watch the planet turn into a barren wasteland.

We as humans tend to ignore the big picture for profit, go ahead and disagree with history all you want to.

[bettyellen]

14. I think that's an impulse more common in men, women tend to think more long term and collectively ..

And I think we are doing a lot in this nation and across the globe to curb greenhouse gasses. There's a lot more to it than us stopping fracking for instance. China and other third world nations are the leading polluters. It's a huge global issue, and will take a major shift and the tech for it is finally arriving. Would that we didn't have the Reagan and Bush years putting concern for the Eco system out of fashion for so long... But that was a time driven by testosterone fueled greed. I think the pendulum is swinging back now.

[Rex]

15. True, I can only speak from a males POV.

Reagan and Bush really did a number on the planet. I do agree 100% that minority rights have come a long way. We are now finally witnessing a women POTUS in the USA...something that should have happened a long time ago. POC are getting their voices heard out in society where at one time they would have been roundly ignored.

I guess I can get depressed at thinking how far along we've come and it can all be taken away by a planet that will evolve to our stimuli. Good or bad for the biosphere, it will adapt.

I do worry far more about China and other nations then the USA, we have progressed faster them most of the huge industrialized nations. We are more progressive, despite our years of GOP pitfalls.

[bettyellen]

17. Most couldn't buy houses or get credit cards or decent jobs just 45-50

Years ago. It's insane to think about! But that's part of the reason for the lingering sexism. Many remember it being normal we were second class citizens, and they didn't much think about it- if it want there problem.
I never ever see women and POC complain there has been no real progress. Only white men. It gets fucking tiresome to see them still forget we exist - and we matter as much as they do. Nothing personal, it's just been a frustrating year for this.

[kentuck]

16. Excellent point, bettyellen !

I agree with you. Some people want to save the planet for our grandchildren's generation, but also, the grandchildren of our grandchildren and the generations beyond. We must work together to save our planet.

[bettyellen]

18. I think awareness has hit critical mass. In another century many coastal cities will have relocated

To higher ground. I think it's inevitable, and tech will get better- but there will be unintended consequences to new tech as well. We've come really far! I'm more worried about nukes at the moment.

[kentuck]

20. The government (We, the People) should prepare for such events...

in the future.

By the way, I thought Hillary looked very smart and presidential, today.

[bettyellen]

21. I think it's something that we have to start working on for sure!

I had no heat or electricity for three weeks after one storm. Ocean currents are changing and so are the seasons. Barring a very fast major shift- I'm looking at you Dennis Quaid!- I think we will deal with it because we will have to. Our suburbs will be our cities and our homes maybe aquatic parks someday. I wish I'd be alive to see whatever comes!

[Hortensis]

22. Some really great points, Bettyellen, very worth reading.

Thanks. We do advance, even if it might average to 110 steps backward for every 111 forward.

Regarding our coastlines, the worst cases with 20-foot sea rise, etc., aside, for more normal expectations of sea level rise, it's likely that most of our cities will build seawalls, raise ground levels, etc., and abandon relatively little land, most near river/estuary mouths that can't be controlled.

I once skimmed an extensive report prepared by a private research company for Florida and was surprised to see that at the time it was prepared they believed almost no people and companies would be abandoning extremely desirable coastal properties merely because the seas might rise the couple of feet expected then.

I would expect that most coastal cities would simply rezone and redevelop as currently less-desirable land short distances inland becomes sustainable coastal, with most current residents moving farther inland still.

When wondering what people will do, it's useful to remember also that the normal economic life of most of today's buildings, including hotels and condos, isn't all that long, four or five decades, sometimes significantly less as in strip malls, so redevelopment of most of these properties would take place anyway, and investors and public officials concerned with tax base now would be concerned with secure profits over the next couple decades, not in 100 years.

Just a thought. Those maps they're always showing of vast amounts of land disappearing under water are what might happen if we did nothing about it, just headed for the hills.

[bettyellen]

23. Interesting! I get that some people run around with their hair on fire because

They feel it will get people to move on the issue, but sometimes it seems manipulative. And really very ignorant to the fact that it will take time to make the transition to safer energy sources. There never was going to be a federal ban on fracking. It will phase out in time and in the mean time better safety regulations are important.

[Hortensis]

24. Again, agree 100%. Given that we literally wasted

almost 50 years after President Johnson first officially warned Congress of the need to act on global warming before being forced to start real action, it is unfortunate that dangers of fracking seem to be developing much faster than hoped.

Otoh, given what cheap natural gas has done for America's and the planet's imminent energy crises and for our economic and strategic standing in the world, it seems quite likely to me that progression to sustainable energy would effectively stop altogether without serious problems to keep it moving.

Or, how I learned (decided) to stop worrying and love the earthquakes? Sorta.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. every time that wheel turn 'round

bound to cover just a little more ground.