Snowden on 'Privacy'

[yallerdawg]

"One of the most important things I think we all have a duty collectively in society to think about is when we’re directed to think a certain way and accept a certain argument reflexively without actually tackling it.

"The common argument we have — if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear — the origins of that are literally Nazi propaganda. This is not to equate the actions of our current government to the Nazis, but that is the literal origin of that quote. It's from the Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels.

"So when we hear modern politicians, modern people repeating that reflexively without confronting its origins, what it really stands for, I think that's harmful.

"And if we actually think about it, it doesn’t make sense. Because privacy isn’t about something to hide. Privacy is about something to protect. That’s who you are. That's what you believe in. Privacy is the right to a self. Privacy is what gives you the ability to share with the world who you are on your own terms. For them to understand what you’re trying to be and to protect for yourself the parts of you you’re not sure about, that you’re still experimenting with.

"If we don’t have privacy, what we’re losing is the ability to make mistakes, we’re losing the ability to be ourselves. Privacy is the fountainhead of all other rights. Freedom of speech doesn’t have a lot of meaning if you can’t have a quiet space, a space within yourself, your mind, your community, your friends, your family, to decide what it is you actually want to say.

"Freedom of religion doesn’t mean that much if you can’t figure out what you actually believe without being influenced by the criticisms of outside direction and peer pressure. And it goes on and on.

"Privacy is baked into our language, our core concepts of government and self in every way. It’s why we call it 'private property.' Without privacy you don’t have anything for yourself.

"So when people say that to me I say back, arguing that you don’t care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is like arguing that you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

[MohRokTah]

1. FUCK THAT TRAITOR RUSSIAN SPY MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!!

I didn't read a word of your post because that fucking traitor Russian spy deserves life in solitary in Leavenworth.

[yallerdawg]

3. I thought that, too.

Until I started listening to the man.

[MohRokTah]

4. I don''t listen to bullshit lies from fucking traitor Russian spies! eom

[yallerdawg]

8. Or is it 'whistleblower'?

8 Things That Happened Because of Snowden HuffPo

1. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper had to admit he lied to Congress.

2. The House passed a bill (ostensibly) meant to stop bulk collection of phone metadata.

3. A federal judge said the NSA phone surveillance program is unconstitutional.

4. Tech companies finally got serious about privacy.

5. Britain held its first-ever open intelligence hearing.

6. Germany opened an investigation into the tapping of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s cell phone.

7. Brazil scotched a $4 billion defense contract with Boeing.

8. President Barack Obama admitted there would be no surveillance debate without Snowden.

[MohRokTah]

9. He is NOT a "whistleblower. He's a fucking spy.

I refused to read anything you posted after your subject line since your subject line is blatantly false.

[treestar]

17. Plenty of that could have happened anyway

and without risks of revealing our state secrets.

[deathrind]

10. 👆 this.

One can accept hook, line and sinker the governments portrayal of Mr. Snowden and not apply any critical thought to what he is saying.

But if one actually applies some effort to read and understand what he is saying they most likely will find common agreement on several issues he speaks to rather intelligently.

The last line of the op is right on target and the best framing I have seen yet that demonstrates the importance of the subject. Saying you don't mind the lack of privacy or the idea that the government is monitoring all you do because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

[Egnever]

16. Would be a great argument if that was the argument

but it isn't and only by setting up that straw man does his position become coherent.

[deathrind]

19. ...

"When I was four years old, I watched my mother kill a spider... with a teacosy. Years later, I realised it was not a spider - it was my Uncle Harold."

...

[randome]

2. Preach it, brother! No, just...stop preaching, will you? You fucked up. Admit it.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[CanSocDem]

5. Snowden is complicated.

Sanders is complicated.

Nader is complicated.

Too complicated for simple minds.


K & R

.

[Egnever]

7. I find quite the oposite

Snowdens thinking appears very black and white to me. Way too simplistic to be taken seriously.

[Egnever]

6. Blah blah blah Nazi!

He is becoming a meme.

The argument isn't if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. The argument is there is a lot of nefarious shit going on in the world and making it impossible to track does not benefit society one bit. Obviously every effort should be made to protect innocent peoples privacy and even many not so innocent peoples privacy. But there are plenty of legitimate concerns that need to be tracked. The idea there aren't is so simplistic even Snowden can't be that stupid.

[Egnever]

12. .

Yea theres no human trafficking going on any more or child porn or tax evasion or any of the myriad criminal enterprises going on all over the world. Just evil America...

Snowden is built for people that think like that.

[kcr]

13. No other country or anyone else living anywhere does bad things?

That's insane.

[treestar]

15. Seriously? Nothing nefarious going on in any other country?

That's laughable.

[treestar]

14. word salad

why is this worm getting attention now?

He does not understand the concept.

[yallerdawg]

18. His movie is coming out!

Last edited Thu Sep 15, 2016, 05:17 PM - Edit history (1)

[treestar]

20. Good Grief!