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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSanders just might be the most popular politician in America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/19/the-most-popular-politician-in-america-might-just-be-a-socialistBernie Sanders just might be the most popular politician in America
By Aaron Blake
September 19 at 10:29 AM
Back when Bernie Sanders was first catching fire in the Democratic presidential primary, a question followed him: Could a socialist actually be elected president of the United States?
The term, after all, carried with it negative connotations for many Americans. And fully half of Americans, including many Democrats, said they could not vote for one a higher number than said they couldn't vote for a Muslim or an atheist. It was incumbent upon Sanders, I argued, to change how people felt about the term.
Well, judging by how people feel about Sanders today, he appears to have done it. Recent polling, in fact, shows Sanders might actually be the most popular national politician in the United States right now.
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Those numbers make Sanders not only more popular than Trump and Clinton but also more popular than a resurgent President Obama. A new Internet-based YouGov poll has Sanders more popular than the president's very popular wife, Michelle Obama. Vice President Biden and other national figures such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Rep. Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) also come up short. So does former president Bill Clinton, who has seen his own numbers dip alongside his wife's.
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Egnever
(21,506 posts)Immediately knew the poll was bogus.
Bernie is cool but he has nothing Michelle.
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lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Response to lonestarnot (Reply #10)
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Arazi
(6,829 posts)Calculating
(2,957 posts)I for one am starting to worry a little bit at this point.
synergie
(1,901 posts)or the media ginned horse-race upset you so much. They're as factual and unbiased as they've always been, and about as correct.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)has never been: he sat out the fight against the GOP for 30 years.
still_one
(92,372 posts)all the time. She was in various states today campaigning, and she will be tomorrow and the next day.
At the same time she will also be preparing for the debate on the 26th
Arazi
(6,829 posts)The campaign said the postponement was due to a change in the campaign schedule but did not specify what the change was.
Clinton was supposed to hold a "Conversation with Hillary" event at the home of Better Craven and Michael Warner.
Read more at http://www.wral.com/clinton-postpones-tuesday-chapel-hill-event/16030931/#pcDr8qYLw3uc5d62.99
And her current schedule only shows tomorrow's event in Orlando before the debates:
https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/
still_one
(92,372 posts)push the bullshit press corp theme how "Hillary is not liked"
Since 1993 when she introduced her healthcare plan she has been lied about, falsely accused of everything from murdering Vince Foster to being the devil incarnate.
No other politician has had to put up with the garbage she has had to put up with for years.
Enough is enough. It is time to cut the crap out.
Hillary is the nominee. She won that nomination by more than 4 million votes.
Whether Sanders is more popular than Hillary, Obama, and Michelle is irrelevant
For those that prefer to engage in this irrelevancy, might I suggest JPR
This site is for people who support Hillary for President.
Will you be voting for Hillary in November?
Arazi
(6,829 posts)Actually, this thread appears to be more about backhandedly trashing Bernie Sanders as you demonstrate so well.
Obviously anything that reflects well of him is interpreted as some slight to her - that's bullshit. He can be popular and she is the nominee. Get over that fact.
still_one
(92,372 posts)but It is also used by some to get a shot at Hillary.
The point you are making is correct. Anything that reflects well on Bernie is absolutely NOT a slight to Hillary. They are independent events
synergie
(1,901 posts)the case, it's why all the RW and misogynistic attacks on her have angered so many. I'm not sure why you are laboring under the belief that the campaign somehow controls the media and their clear, obvious and long standing bias against her, but I find it ludicrous that you blame them, when it's clear that it's an issue with so many lazy folks who literally believe anything negative about her, fail to do their homework and cater to their inner misogynist. I think those who hold these feelings need to take some responsibility for that, and allowing the media to pretty much straight up lie for years about her.
She didn't give Trump a free ride, the media did and she wasn't the one feeding into the distrust and the total lies that Trump is parroting, that was a whole other camp who needs to own up to what they've been doing. I don't expect RWers to all of a sudden obtain some honesty but the so called progressives and liberals need to stop egging on the silliness of Stein and own up to being manipulated by those with ill will.
Also, rallies are not "public events" to you? Yeah, sounds like there some "hubris" happening, and it's not Hillary that's engaging in it.
Why is telling the truth about her so very difficult for people who are ostensibly Democrats, liberal or progressive? What is that, anyway?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)A number of honest biographies have been written about Hillary Clinton. Woodward and Bernstein, the guys pay their way onto shows to promote their books and legends by comparing her "lack of transparency" to Nixon's and Watergate, each have written one.
People who don't want to like her or share her ideology shouldn't fear they'll be seduced into idolatry by learning about her. Some knowledge, though, should at least raise the level of discourse tremendously so that they don't find themselves parroting Trump and Andrea Mitchell to express their feelings.
BlueMTexpat
(15,372 posts)Thanks for that turn of phrase, Hortensis!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I'm sipping coffee instead of something else. Still, the effects of infectious hostility on ignorant minds are a genuine national threat.
I repeat my message: The "ignorant" part of all this is not incurable. Those who care enough to post on political forums should find out who the hell "Hillary Clinton" is.
nil desperandum
(654 posts)idea considering she'll be the next commander in chief. Time to see past the lies and smears and see who she has always been. Tough, independent and precisely the kind of person who is qualified to lead the nation.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)books, although just one, perhaps Bernstein's, would do for the pre-2008 years, because their scholarship is respectable and no one need fear being seduced into liking her by either.
She's developed and grown all along, though, and those who survive Bernstein unindoctrinated might feel confident enough to expose themselves to more recent books showing who she became as she ran for U.S. senator, served as SoS, etc.
Given the large role foreign affairs will play over the next 8 years, her own "Hard Choices" is, imo, pretty close to a must and, again imo, supports Nil Desperandum's assessment. "She takes a hard line on Mr. Putin, writing that hard men present hard choices and strength and resolve were the only language that the Russian leader understood." There are real reasons Putin doesn't want her to be POTUS, and only one is contempt for women.
Knowledge is a very effective antidote to political poison. Actually learning more about her seems like it'd be a good idea even for people who haven't been soaking in anti-Hillary toxoids for decades.
Most of these books can be purchased on line for $0.01 to 3.00 + $3.99 shipping.
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Midnight Writer
(21,788 posts)I don't care what your fantasy is, Bernie or Tim Kaine or the ghost of fucking JFK or all the King's horses and all the King's men would not be able to put the Democratic Party together again.
Please, take a step into reality. Into the real world. Please. Bernie is not going to win this.
chillfactor
(7,580 posts)my bet would be on Elizabeth Warren.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Because nobody needs to anymore. He's not a candidate for anything; if he was, and was being attacked over things like his refusal to publish his tax returns then his popularity would be much lower,
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)This article is nothing but sour grapes. If we want what ifs, then what if Al Gore had asked for a recount of the entire state of FL. TH SC said after their ruling that they would have granted that, but he didn't.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)What's happening right now is that two of the most unpopular candidates ever are campaigning for president. One candidate's whole campaign is based on how terrible the other candidate is. She's right, but that's how she has to win; by being less bad.
I'm done with the presidential election. I know enough about both major party choices to know how to cast my vote. I will do so. There's nothing there to energize me, to enthuse me, or to make me want to be part of helping clean up our broken political system going forward. There's just a grim determination to deny Trump the WH.
Sanders has got that energy going on. Probably why it was posted here, instead of that other forum about the presidential election that I trashed.
"Who?" Sanders is working to elect good progressive Democrats all the way down the ticket. That's a bad thing? Why are YOU expressing "sour grapes" about his continued activity and popularity?
stopbush
(24,396 posts)They're available on her website.
It boggles the mind that any Dem reading her positions would come away with the feeling that "there's nothing there to enthuse me."
LWolf
(46,179 posts)to Hillary Clinton since about 1992, thanks. I mean what I say, and I don't say it without cause.
That's beside my point. SHE's beside my point. This OP, and my response, has nothing whatsoever to do with her. The senator the thread is about, though, IS campaigning for her and other Democrats down-ticket. His high popularity makes that a very positive thing for all Democrats this November. THAT is my fucking point: that being dismissive is wrong-headed, ignorant, and/or harmful to our chances in November.
If I wanted to talk about the election, I'd head on over to that forum I trashed after the convention. I'm here to respond to this thread, not sour-grapes campaigners who can't, still, acknowledge reality about favorability ratings.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...it boggles YOUR mind.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)He has been relatively silent, except for in his home state where he makes an occasional appearance. He is starting to pop up every now and then, and I'll give him credit for that. You also once again exposed your sour grapes attitude. Wow, fact deaf.
I am happy to see Sanders campaigning for others. It's his primary opponents throwing fits in a thread about him...a thread that is not about the GE or about the nominee or her campaign. It's sour grapes on the part of those who can't get over their angst.
Fact deaf? No. What facts pertaining to the topic of this OP are you presenting? None.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)still_one
(92,372 posts)questionable, and so is this poll.
Charles Bukowski
(1,132 posts)White millennial neck beards and undersampled older voters and minorities.
Bernie lost 9 of the 10 most populous states to HRC, a puzzling result for "the most popular politician in America".
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Proud Liberal Dem
(24,436 posts)and he's politically secure in Vermont, so....?
LWolf
(46,179 posts)He's out there campaigning for Democrats from HRC on down the ticket, bringing his energy and enthusiasm to the effort to GOTV. How irrelevant. Let's shrug his efforts off.
What's happening right now is that two of the most unpopular candidates ever are campaigning for president. One candidate's whole campaign is based on how terrible the other candidate is. She's right, but that's how she has to win; by being less bad.
I'm done with the presidential election. I know enough about both major party choices to know how to cast my vote. I will do so. There's nothing there to energize me, to enthuse me, or to make me want to be part of helping clean up our broken political system going forward. There's just a grim determination to deny Trump the WH.
Sanders has got that energy going on. Probably why this thread was posted here, instead of that other forum about the presidential election that I trashed.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)the nomination.
He has no much energy that he's galvanizing the young voters and persuading them to come out to vote.
If you're done with this presidential election, then don't break DU rules by bashing the Democratic nominee.
If you're not supporting our nominee, then leave.
still_one
(92,372 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)He just nice man with wishful thinking! He is not working hard to stop
the fascism of Trump. Hillary has already had her life threaten twice
Sanders would have turned red fainted.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)I think Sanders is irrelevant. Period.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 21, 2016, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)
1. This thread is not about Hillary Clinton or her campaign. Sour-grapes about someone else's favorability ratings does not reflect well on campaigners.
2. This thread is also not about the primaries, and since you seem concerned, re-fighting the primaries is breaking one of those rules you refer to.
3. I feel pretty damned confident that I know DU rules and don't need your smug lecture; I've managed to follow them for 14 years now.
4. I didn't bash HRC. I pointed out how the subject of this thread is HELPING her. Please learn the difference between "bashing" and "helping."
5. I did not say, in this thread, or at any other time, that I was not supporting the nominee. In fact, while I don't talk about the campaign much, I have repeatedly pointed out and discussed the need to defeat Trump. Don't fucking tell me I'm doing something I'm not.
6. And finally, who the fuck made you the gatekeeper of DU? It's not your fucking place to tell me to leave a place I've been for years longer than you.
Have a nice fucking day.
ret5hd
(20,516 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)ret5hd
(20,516 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)Ignorant or disingenuous bullshit.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I posted it here, because it addresses politician's popularity, not the election. I also share your displeasure with the ongoing circus/presidential election.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,436 posts)I haven't seen much of him since the DNC. Whether that is because of lack of coverage or because he actually has been MIA I'm not totally sure. His endorsement of HRC was pretty lukewarm and he stayed in the primary beyond what seemed reasonable. Not sure how much he has helped Hillary or Democrats in general.
G_j
(40,367 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)every day where he's out there campaigning. Donkees posts a lot of them here at DU. Anybody who cares can find him on the campaign trail.
I'm not going to re-fight the primaries with you by talking about the primary season. He's campaigning for HRC and a bunch of others. Which is no surprise for anyone who was paying attention.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)No shit! That's what she faced in the Primary, as well. And it's done on purpose to bring her poll numbers (popularity) down. So your whole comment about her is really intellectually manipulative. She's been beaten up nonstop for over a year by both of her opponents. That's reality.
This isn't the primaries, and Bernie Sanders is a man, not a woman. This thread is about him, not about her. Why, oh why, can't some people just stop trying to fight the primaries? Why, oh why, would some people feel the need to jump into a thread about Sanders and try to make it about "her?"
It's certainly revealing, if frustrating that we can't have a thread about Sanders that is not in the GE/campaign forum, that is not about the nominee, nor about her campaign, without her campaigners jumping in to make it about her and re-fight the primaries, which is against the rules.
Revealling, frustrating, and fucking pathetic.
So...since you seem interested, do you really have a problem with Sanders' high favorability ratings? Does it hurt your feelings, or in anyway cause DU, or the Democratic Party harm? The only harm I see might be to the neo-liberal powers that be, but that, in my opinion, is a very good thing for the party overall.
I think that's really what this is all about. Neo-liberals with their panties in a twist because the opposition to neo-liberalism is growing.
G_j
(40,367 posts)though some seem to think he should be considered a non-entity, and feel that it's an affront to discuss his popularity.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)at the vitriol, and I shouldn't have been. I now realize that it's more than the GE and the nominee. It's that his popularity threatens the neo-liberal establishment. It's not enough to elect Democrats, if they are Democrats that will help shake up that establishment.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)R B Garr
(16,975 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 22, 2016, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)
That's just another manipulative nickname that was invented as a purity code. If people didn't buy the BS being peddled, they were labeled. So you're right that you are making this all about the primaries. Jury: My response was to point out the current nonstop attacks on Clinton from Trump and how they continue to be misrepresented to show it's Hillary who is unpopular.
And LOL at your continued manipulation. I stated a fact (even quoted YOU), that Hillary was attacked by BOTH of her opponents, and all you can do is attack me. It's obvious what I said is the real truth because Donald is using Bernie's insults, so you know where it came from. So to quote you again: "revealing, frustrating, and fucking pathetic."
LWolf
(46,179 posts)About you, anyway. I guess "revealing and fucking pathetic" extend to more than I thought.
Quote this: People who can't stand a positive thread about Senator Bernie Sanders are re-fighting primaries. People who can't enter a thread about Senator Bernie Sanders without trying to re-fight the primaries or make the thread about someone else are fucking pathetic. That's not manipulation. Trying to hi-jack a thread that's not about the nominee or the GE to re-fight the primaries is manipulation.
Neo-liberalism is real. It's not a manipulative nickname, but the very terms you use to describe it reveal neo-liberal "code," and thus reveal more about you. I get that neo-liberals have got a lot of angst about the push back they've been getting. Deflect and deny all you like. That push back is not going away.
Why not take this conversation back to the point: Bernie Sanders is possibly the most popular Democrat out there right now. And that's a good thing for the party and the masses of Democrats who are not neo-liberals.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)R B Garr
(16,975 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)It's probably time to end this, though, since the usual suspects aren't going to quit being what they are, and the thread is supposed to be about Sanders.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)Talk about the "usual suspects", all you've done here is hurl hostile insults when you didn't even read the article. And insulting people with your version of distorted reality. Sick of it!
The article states Sanders is popular because he faded into the background and because he has not been attacked. But this is a clear example of how much abuse is heaped on people just sticking to reality...WINK.
Read the article! Quote:
"It is also true that Clinton's campaign never really launched a sustained line of attack on Sanders. And given he's not the Democratic nominee, there's been no organized offensive focused on his avowed socialism; in fact, Trump has tended to refer to him positively, praising his message on trade and saying that Sanders had been cheated during the primary process. Sanders's socialism has been part of the coverage, certainly, but not a major theme of the campaign."
So. Again. Hillary has been attacked nonstop for over a year by her Primary opponent and now, predictably, her GE opponent. The attackers have never been accountable for proving any of their bullshit, but they smear her anyway. They attack to lower her poll numbers. Remember? You need to remember that simple fact before you start calling Hillary supporters nasty names.
R B Garr
(16,975 posts)"One candidate's whole campaign is based on how terrible the other candidate is."
That is what you said. That's what I commented on. Remember? I've quoted it twice now.
So your own quote negates all your efforts to get around this and make it about me. LOL, this looks like such a familiar tactic, though.
And the "pushback' is just as pathetic as when it was done in the primaries. "Pushback" only means that your distorted view of reality is forced on people. Same as the name calling like "neoliberals". LOL, it didn't work then, and it's not working now. Manipulating and bullying people is just "revealing and fucking pathetic."
So go read your quote again. Then you can take my quote in context of what you, yourself, said. She has had nonstop attacks for over a year by both opponents. That is done to lower poll numbers (popularity). Remember?
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)The primaries are over. Mr. Sanders lost.
Stop with the baiting threads.
To the trash bin this thread goes.
G_j
(40,367 posts)unless you are looking to be baited. If you can't even bear a discussion of a poltician's popularity, then it's your thin skin that is the problem. This is GD.
still_one
(92,372 posts)That myth has been set up as a push poll, with one talking head after another spewing their sexists garbage how "Hillary doesn't smile, she seems angry, she is shrill"
This was demonstrated again after the Matt Lauer interview, where Lauer wouldn't give her a chance to answer a question, and kept interrupting her when she was trying to. The contrast between the way Lauer treated Hillary verses Trump demonstrated beyond a doubt Lauer's double standard. The talking head comments that followed that interview, weren't about her answers, instead they characterized her as "defensive, angry, and didn't smile"
They have been doing this for years against Hillary since 1993 when she introduced her healthcare proposals. It has become part of the territory, the "Hillary derangement syndrome" of the media.
No one, including Bernie has had to put up with the misrepresentations and LIES constantly hurled at her, and yet she won the primary by more than four million votes to cinch the nomination. That is a fact.
Another fact that the polls and the illustrious media gloss over is that she has wide popularity among women. Believe it or not, women are people too, and there are far more women than men, and their voices are going to be heard in November. A preview of this was demonstrated with full force against Todd Akin.
Whiskeytide
(4,462 posts)... is falsely manufactured by the media and the right - over 25 years - doesn't mean it's not a problem in the upcoming election.
I live in the deep red South. I know a lot of republicans and independents (at least self professed independents), and we talk politics all the time.
I know very few actual Trump supporters. They're here - all around me judging by the yard signs and bumper stickers- but I don't associate with them and have little interaction with them concerning politics.
Many Republicans I know detest Trump - but will grudgingly vote for him because they detest Clinton more.
Many independents detest Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for Clinton because they also don't like her. They are unable to articulate a substantive reason for not liking her, but "not like her" they do. Our conversations usually end with them exclaiming "I just DON'T, okay". I've gotten through to about 4 of them - made them think at least - and I'll keep trying, but I don't think I'll flip Alabama with my efforts this election. Maybe they'll stay home. But the dislike is soooooo deeply rooted it's a little unnerving.
My point is that southern independents are not likely to flip to her in significant numbers - and that comes down to her likeability (fair or not). I'm not sure how that might play out with the independents elsewhere, but I would guess there is an impact with them as well, to some degree.
I suspect Clinton's performance in the debates will be critical because - for the first time - she will have a chance to demonstrate the mythology of her likeability problems to the voters just now tuning in. Those are the voters she needs to reach. We will vote for her, and the republicans will vote for the Cheato. "The middle" will actually decide this election. And whether or not they "like" her matters.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)back in 2008. The HRC supporters couldn't handle Obama's win.
Truth hurts. This is 100% click bait.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Bush's numbers have gone up after leaving office. Being out of sight makes politicians more popular.
Sanders isn't unpopular, but he's not being looked at, making lots of public appearances. It's not a particularly useful poll because it's not comparing people in like positions.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)It's a damned good thing Hillary is our candidate. I like Bernie well enough, but let the media and especially the republican machine at him and his past statements and positions and we would be losing in a landslide.
He is a good man and represents the left wing of our party very well. Even may be moving the young more left which is a good thing. And do not confuse my pragmatic assessment as a reflection of my politics. I am a European style Social Democrat. But I am honest enough with myself to admit most Americans are not.
Oh, and do not assume that all his support from young folks insures that they will be leftist when they grow up. The 'hippy' generation gave us Reagan. Because most of them were not hippies.
Have a nice evening.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Never attacked...that's a good one...
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Is nothing but refighting the primary clickbait. And I do not want a hide.
Let's just say that the title socialist is not athama on DU. For perhaps a majority democrats it is. For a huge majority Americans, totally. I like the man well enough but I am a European style Social Democrat.
But there is no way in hell a person who self identifies as a Socialist is going to win a National Election.
Have a nice evening. This is the last Sanders post I am responding to.
otohara
(24,135 posts)Sanders was the most favorably reported candidateRepublican or Democraticduring the invisible primary, the study said.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)That a guy promoting an economic philosophy that failed everywhere and had an economic program all experts pointed out to be unfeasible should be "popular" shows that Trump is not the only populist around. And, thankfully, we're not even talking about Ben Carson.
Must be lonely to be like Hillary, one of the few adults in the room.
George II
(67,782 posts)Internet based poll (again!)?
And to show just an obvious flaw in this "poll", Michelle Obama isn't a politician!
ananda
(28,874 posts)Sanders is so genuine and genuinely for the people, not corporations.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Vinca
(50,302 posts)I have one thing to say about your remark: bullshit.
treestar
(82,383 posts)since Bernie is campaigning for her.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Hell, Al Gore had a huge boost in popularity as well...
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Does anyone even remember him?
Bullshite bait post.
He is nobody anymore.
Give up.
pnwmom
(108,990 posts)People start to dislike her when she competes for office, when hate is again directed at her.
Cary
(11,746 posts)They will continue to behave this way too, unless and until good people tell them to STFU.
I guess a lot of people, many who claim to be leftists, are good for.nitning but sowing discord and discontent. Think of all the resources squandered on smearing Hillary Clinton and all of the good things we could have done with the billions of dollars wasted on pure bullshit.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)I am going to cry all the way home
MineralMan
(146,325 posts)ochem
(95 posts)If H is having problems with young voters, why is she not have BS campaign WITH HER at rallys as often as possible?