Alfred Olango: US police kill mentally ill black man

[MrScorpio]

Alfred Olango, a mentally ill black man who was unarmed, killed by police after his sister called officers for help.


After Olango's killing, protests erupted against the disproportionate level of police brutality against black Americans (AP)

Police in the California city of San Diego shot and killed a mentally ill, unarmed black man after his sister called the department for assistance.

Police from the El Cajon suburb released a statement late Tuesday night, several hours after the shooting outside the Broadway Village Shopping Center, confirming that the man died in hospital. His family have named him as 30-year-old Alfred Olango.

Police had been called over by Olango's sister, who said that he was acting strangely and not himself. The aftermath of the fatal shooting was filmed by a bystander who posted the clip live to Facebook. That video has been viewed almost 40,000 times.

"Why couldn't you tase him? I told you he is sick. And you guys shot him!" Olango's sister can be heard telling officers in the video. "I called police to help him, not to kill him."

El Cajon Police Chief Jeff Davis said that the man was not armed. He added that Olango ignored calls to remove his hands from his pockets and pulled out an object out. Olango then pointed the object in a "shooting stance" toward two officers, prompting one of the officers to open fire, Davis said.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/alfred-olango-police-kill-mentally-ill-black-man-160928065635824.html

I'm quite sure that the police are lying about this "shooting stance" business, because he was found to be UNARMED. Besides, there have been white people who have pointed actual loaded weapons at cops and have came out of it ALIVE. And some people wonder why black people are wary of the police.

[DrDan]

1. looks like a shooting stance to me

?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all

[MrScorpio]

2. Again, the man was unarmed.

Or, are you OK with cops shooting unarmed black people?

[DrDan]

4. that's ridiculous - all I said was that it looked like a shooting stance

he apparently had something (not as yet identified - but not a gun) in his hands and he pointed it while in a shooting stance

[MrScorpio]

6. Looks to me that the cop was clearly close enough to this man to see that he was unarmed.

He's like, what, five feet away and in broad daylight?

If that cop can't tell whether or not the man has a weapon or not from that close proximity, clearly he's incompetent.

And let's not forget this:

[DrDan]

7. he apparently had something in his hand (not a gun) - not as yet identified

so difficult to say whether or not the officer should have known it was not a gun, isn't it? We do not know what it was.

But (to me) he clearly was pointing something at the officer while taking a "shooting stance".

[MrScorpio]

8. Again, it's the cop's responsibility to know whether or not they're facing a weapon...

Stances don't present a danger, weapons do. This officer should have been trained to identify weapons when he's confronted by one.

Because of his failure to identify an actual weapon, he's shot and killed an unarmed man.

And people are making excuses for it.

[DrDan]

9. the excuse being - "let's wait and see what he had in his hands"?????????????

[MrScorpio]

11. That's right. You identify a weapon.

Especially if someone is standing five feet away from you in broad daylight.

But clearly, cops were jumpy because they were confronting a black guy and their implicit bias took over.

Now an unarmed man is dead.

[DrDan]

14. my point is - I will withhold judgement until I know what he was holding and pointing

he took a shooting stance - pointed something at the officer. Neither of us know what it was. Claims of being jumpy and biased are premature.

(but I recognize that lack-of-facts is inconsequential in missing out on a good rant. I am done.)

[MrScorpio]

16. The thing is, it if you're black, you don't need to be armed for cops to use deadly force in America

Last edited Wed Sep 28, 2016, 10:01 AM - Edit history (1)

All they have to do is be scared of us.

Their implicit bias against black people is far too common an occurrence and the bar by which cops will shoot black people is pretty damn low.

[raging moderate]

28. Execrable. Totally unjustified police action.

You are right about white subconscious prejudice against Black people.

[raging moderate]

31. If police must shoot men pointing guns, why not this white guy?

We all have subconscious reflexes conditioned both classically and operantly. We need to monitor our own impulses more effectively.

[LanternWaste]

3. The important thing of course, is what it looks like to you.

The important thing of course, is what it looks like to you.

[DrDan]

5. no - the important thing is what it looked like to that officer

[Bethany Rockafella]

26. That cop to the left looks pretty close

Surely, he would see if there was a gun in that man's hands.

[DrDan]

35. or something that appears to look like a gun - something other than a gun was in his hands

we don't know what it was

[maveric56]

49. It was a vaping device.

Local ABC news just mentioned and showed that.

[DrDan]

50. so it could potentially look like a gun barrel - particularly in a split-second view

http://www.vaporseller.com/endura-t22-starter-kit.html?gclid=CNCLgcS1ss8CFdgBgQodLWAMeQ

[maveric56]

52. So could a licorice stick.

Gimme a fucking break!

[DrDan]

55. did you look at that image?

[maveric56]

56. So a cop standing seven feet away couldn't distinguish that from a gun?

Like I stated earlier, if he'd been white he'd still be breathing. El Cajon PD is a racist shithole. Has been for years.

[DrDan]

57. depending how it was held - and in a shooting position - and in a split-second . . . .

[Rex]

64. And and and...

You've made enough excuses for the cops.

[Lee-Lee]

10. People need to quit calling the police for mental health issues

It's not thier job, and it generally ends poorly.


Would you call the police if you have chest pains? Do you call a plumber to fix your lawn mower?

Mental health is, just like chest pains, a health issue. Not a criminal issue. Call the right people. In jurisdictions where policy is to send the police they need to fix that and only send police if the person is reported to be a danger to themselves or others.

Family members all the damm time will refuse to help their loved ones get proper treatment or maintain it, and then when it gets a point where the person is out of control because they failed to do anything early on call the police when the person is at their worst and most unstable. It's the worst possible way to deal with mental health issues.

[MrScorpio]

13. Definitely. Having a mental health episode in the proximity of the police...

Is all too frequently, a death sentence.

[Bethany Rockafella]

30. I agree so who do you call?

An ambulance? I'm not sure calling paramedics will help because I don't believe they are trained to handle the mentally unstable unless they are trained to tell the difference between mentally unstable or if someone was having a medical issue.

[Lee-Lee]

32. In my part of NC they actually have on-call mental health crisis teams

They are available 24/7 and will come to the patient.

That is needed everywhere. But better funded.

Imagine if you had mental health ambulances staffed with the right people with the right training.

That's what is needed. We totally mismanage response by treating mental health like a criminal issue. It's not illegal to be mentally ill, so it makes no sense to send the police. It is a health care issue, so it makes sense to send a health care response.

[BronxBoy]

62. Bullshit

I'm from NY and I have a niece who had a psychotic break just the other day. N. hospital told my sister to call THE POLICE

[Lee-Lee]

63. And that kind of shit is what has to change

Way too many places are treating mental health crisis like a criminal issue, when its not.

That even a hospital tells you that shows how bad and systemic that problem is.

[BronxBoy]

66. I agree

But dont drop that shit at the feet of the victims family. All I'm saying

[Krytan11c]

43. We, paramedics, will respond to mental health issues

However, if the scene seems unsafe we will wait for PD to arrive.

[Bonx]

47. Sadly, sometimes the person calling gets killed

Haven't seen anyone here talking about this one:

Mother of Claremont man shot by police wants answers
Cody Lafont, 25, died of injuries

"The Attorney General's Office said a 911 call Sunday morning on Congress Street turned into a confrontation with police.
One officer shot LaFont three times in the chest. McEachern said her son had called 911 before in what she called a cry for help.
“He would do well for a while, and then he would sink back into his depressive states where he basically withdrew from everybody,” she said. It's unknown what led to the shooting or whether there's any video of the incident."

http://www.wmur.com/news/ag-autopsy-shows-police-fatally-shot-man-three-times-in-claremont/41847598

[BronxBoy]

65. You're full of shit....

Why do you always find it necessary to shovel shit on the families of the victims when this shit happens. "Why'd the family do this?....why didn't the family do that?"

In this instance given the circumstances I think the cops may have been in a no win situation. But stop shitting on the families of victims

[Lee-Lee]

12. Tragic circumstances and ending, but justified shoot

He clearly was in a shooting stance in what to any reasonable person appears to be an attempt to shoot at them.

There will be idiots screaming the cops should have had psychic powers or superhuman vision to figure out in a split second of what he had in his hands was a gun or not, but those are the kind of people who don't live in grasp of reality or just hunt for any reason to bash the police no matter what.

[uponit7771]

15. There also will be idiots who seem to think shootings of unarmed black is a goro thing and defend...

... unprofessional LEOs no matter what.

Those people seem to think we don't notice who they are

[Stinky The Clown]

18. "Those people seem to think we don't notice who they are"

Message to the intended: We've noticed.

[MrScorpio]

19. Damn skippy nt

[DrDan]

36. call 'em out . . . how dare they have different opinion based on evidence

[TheSarcastinator]

21. yes, how dare we expect police to act with consideration and intelligence!

How DARE we ask for accountability for shootings? How DARE we ask that police have training in responding to the mentally ill?

I mean, this was a "good shoot", right? And I know that because the police said so!

[TheSarcastinator]

22. a challenge just for you!

I've read your posts and watched the live-action video game you brave defenders of the community love so much, and I have a challenge for you: can you name ONE shooting in the past five years of an unarmed defendant that you believe was NOT justifiable? Please name the victim and describe WHY.

[Lee-Lee]

24. Well just recently

Tulsa looks that way, and I haven't seen enough info on the one of the guy on the motorcycle in DC yet to say for sure but it doesn't look good from what I've seen so far.

[TheSarcastinator]

25. oh good

So we have established that unjustified shootings of unarmed suspects DO occur. All right then.

Now, let's talk about this whole "training doesn't work and cops shouldn't respond to crisis situations involving the mentally ill" nonsense, shall we?

[Lee-Lee]

27. Let's start with you being honest

I never said training doesn't work. I said training never achieve perfection.

And I am correct on the issue of cops responding to calls just because a mentally ill person is having problems- the way we handle mentally ill people in this country is broken. Cases involving mentally ill people should be responded to my medical professionals, not the police. The only time the police should be called us when that person is clearly posing a danger to others.

If a person is just being erratic or having a breakdown that's not a police matter. It's a health care matter. You wouldn't call the cops for chest pains and it's time to get rid of the stigma and mismanagement of mental health cases and start treating them like health care issues that need health care response and not like potential criminal cases.

All cops do certainly need more training on dealing with mental health training. I did a 40 hour class on just that called Crisis Intervention Training and it left me far better prepared for dealing with it but still way short of what I feel I needed. We can all probably agree that fighting to get this funded and in place should be a big priority. If you fully fund it departments will do it, but it's expensive for them to do.

But also every jurisdiction should have trained mental health professionals on call to respond in the community 24/7 the same we do for physical ailments with ambulance crews. They do this here in my part of NC with every county having people on call 24/7. A call for someone just being erratic known to have mental health issues needs that kind of response, not the police.

[gwheezie]

33. Reports were the police knew it was a psych problem

And the police did not call the crisis team. I assume different jurisdictions have different procedures to access the crisis team. When I did community crisis psych most of the time I was meeting the police at s scene.

[Lee-Lee]

34. It's too soon to know what they knew

The sister may have told them one thing, but that doesn't mean the dispatcher relayed that info to the cops. And it doesn't mean that the sister accurately convyed what she thought she did on the call.

It will be telling when the audio of the 911 call and if the radio traffic is finally released.

[DrDan]

37. it certainly appears to be so - the picture of him taking a "shooting stance" and pointing

an object at officers is pretty telling.

There are those here, however, who seem to think when that happens, the officer should immediately begin a mental-health analysis. Of course, hindsight experts usually get it right.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Kill first, make excuses, smear the unarmed dead guy, ask questions later.

Those are the latest cop rules of engagement, being defended right here on DU.

[TheSarcastinator]

20. this live-action video game PROVES you would have killed him too!!!!

So there, you equalitarian know-it-all.

[Stinky The Clown]

38. The cops were close enough to see what was in his hands, "stance" notwithstanding

And why the need to call me names?

this live-action video game PROVES you would have killed him too!!!!

So there, you equalitarian know-it-all.

[Lee-Lee]

41. I would love to put you through some simulations

Where the person jumps into a stance like that and you have to identify exactly what's in his hands and react accordingly and make sure your fast enough that if it's a gun you don't get shot.

Some actual experience would change your inexperienced claims about what is possible.

[MindPilot]

23. Exactly. If I want to read cops-can-do-no-wrong bullshit,

I'll go to policeone.com


No doubt the "investigation" will show Mr Olango smoked weed in high school, and once was late paying a parking ticket so it was clearly "sudicide-by-cop". Yep, a justified shoot alright; righteous kill...high fives all around at the station.

Fuck the pigs.

[NaturalHigh]

39. Have you seen the footage?

I have, and it definitely looked like he was in a shooting stance.

[loyalsister]

40. After reading a couple of articles

it's not clear to me whether it was a seizure or mental illness. In either case it is possible for a person to look as if they are behaving purposefully when the behaviors are automatic and actually serve no purpose. Mental health training would tell them that.

If cops aren't trained to discern the difference between threatening and non-threatening behaviors, all they are good for is writing tickets and shooting people who they say scare them.

[Lee-Lee]

42. A Full on Psychiatrist can't diagnose someone in seconds from a distance

Yet if cops don't manage to do that they are evil.

Got it.

[loyalsister]

44. There is such a thing as mental health training

RESPONSIBLE cops jump to take part and RESPONSIBLE police departments jump at an opportunity to learn about mental health first aid specifically designed. Police departments are using it in my area largely because for human beings not itching to kill, shooting someone damages them mentally and emotionally.
Not everyone wants to step into the shoes of Darren Wilson which are understood by some police in my area to be heroic and celebratory rather than mournful and tragic. It's a twisted, unhealthy view of oneself in relation to other human beings.

[Lee-Lee]

46. I've actually has the most extensive version offered to LE in my state

When I was an officer.

And it still is no magic bullet. Yes it helped me be able to identify people in crisis and better communicate with them and understand them- but it doesn't do squat to help with a person not following commands from a distance who then pulls an object from his pocket and aims it like a gun.

Training is good. Training isn't a manic cure-all that means in a situation like this the cops gain some sort of psychic ability to know what's going on in his mind and that he's absolutely not a danger when he is behaving in a way that indicates he may be.

No level of training will allow you to know within moments of arriving on scene if that person is suffering a mental health crisis and is of no danger to you or if he is a danger, mental health crisis or not, when he refuses to take his hands out of his pockets and when he does he raises an object up just like a gun.

I could take a psychiatrist with decades of experience and put them through the police academy and out in a uniform and they couldn't do that.

[loyalsister]

48. "not following commands"

is the twisted authoritarian mentality that leads parents to beat their kids, teachers to excessively punish some kids more than others and police to celebrate their authority by killing whenever they can. It is also a mentality that some departments are moving away from because they recognize that it denies the populace their humanity.

Poor poor frightened police is clearly a myth. Anyone who wants to do anything but just wear a badge and act like a bully and just walk around spouting commands is willing to learn a few words of sign language and listen when an individual who is there and knows the "suspect" tells them that the person has a mental illness and is not dangerous. To Override what a companion tells them in favor of killing someone gives the appearance of a trigger happy bully with little compassion and a compromised conscience.

[Lee-Lee]

53. Is good to listen to those around when it's possible

But not always reliable or practical. And you have to make the scene safe first.

I was almost stabbed by a person whose grandparents just described him as "upset" who didn't disclose he was in a psychotic episode to the dispatcher or that he had already physically assaulted them both just prior.

Keith Scotts wife yelled to police he didn't have a gun while he was holding one and wearing the holster for it.

What people say to you about the person your dealing with isn't always honest or accurate. Once you have made the scene safe it's great to listen. Safe means the person is stable enough to stand there or restrained if needed, and has their hands out of their pockets where they can be seen and you have done a quick check to make sure they don't have anything they can use to harm themselves or others. Then you can work with everyone around them.

[B2G]

45. Mentally ill people can be armed and dangerous. nt

[maveric56]

51. So let's shoot them?

Instead of sending in a crisis team? If he were white he'd still be alive. El Cajon PD has a long history of racism. I've lived here for 37 years and have seen such behavior.

[Bonx]

54. "white people who have pointed actual loaded weapons at cops and have came out of it ALIVE."

White guy Jesse Attaway had no weapon and died similarly less than a week ago:

'Deputies told him to surrender, they said he appeared to have something with him, but he ran away. When deputies reached him, the man refused to follow orders or put his hands up. After repeated orders from officers, the man quickly pointed an object towards the deputies and rushed towards them according to the sheriff's department. That's when the two deputies fired two shots at him.
The man is described as white and 41 years old. He was pronounced dead at the scene by the Sacramento Metro Fire Department. No weapon was found on the man."
http://www.abc10.com/news/local/sacramento/officers-at-a-shooting-in-northern-fair-oaks-neighborhood/324639208

[alarimer]

58. Exactly. I'm so tired of cop apologists when it is CLEAR there is a disparity

Black guy behaving erratically...shot.
White guy behaving erratically...talked to and taken in.

What part of this do they not understand? Instead the apologists make it about a single event, but it's not about that. It's about the totality and about the disparity in the treatment, how they react to black people vs. white people in the aggregate.

[Bonx]

60. I'm not sure you read what i posted.

[tonyt53]

59. I've seen the photo. One cop fired his taser, the other his gun. Olango did take an aggressor stance

BUT one cop fired that taser. They knew something. To me anyway, the cop that shot him overreacted. But whatever comes out of the investigation, one thing is for sure, Olango was a sick man and by taking his stance, he committed suicide by cop and he wanted that. That happens far too often in this country, regardless of skin color. Another taser would have worked instead of shooting him. Don't think it had anything to do with skin color, just a really bad situation with a mentally ill person. But he should not have been shot.

[haele]

61. A little background of policing in San Diego County from a long time native...

As a former El Cajon resident of 10 years, I can tell you El Cajon is and has always been an incorporated city - not part of the city of San Diego. It's a backcountry hole in the wall - formerly a farming community, then a place for retired military and police to settle if they wanted to stay in San Diego county and be near the bright lights and big cities, but not pay the prices. There's also a large smattering of white supremacy and a large Dominionist following in the area; the neighboring incorporated area is often referred to as "Klantee" - and we have one of the first Creationist museums in the area there, along with at least four or five major Prosperity Gospel ministries within a five mile area, and a storefront church in every strip mall.

The city police department is a fiefdom in itself and always travels in groups of three or more cars when responding; often times to the detriment of a victim or a situation where the call has gone out, but not enough officers are "available" to respond and over-react. Requiring compliance to conflicting shouted orders seems to be how the police there interact with local population who aren't very well dressed and driving nice late model vehicles. Criminals have escaped and people have died waiting on the cops to show up after silent alarms have been triggered, because there's been only one car available and that officer had to wait for backup to even start heading towards the area.

And to put it discretely, the police department also tends to hire for a uniform skin tone to go along with the issued uniform...
While there may be good cops, there certainly aren't patient cops, and I suspect with the amount of police who look like weightlifters that are on the force, steroid use is probably accepted if not encouraged. After all, it's a war out there - or so I've been told.

Another thing I've noticed over the years, there's always been "issues" with policing in certain neighborhoods, and I've been informed by more than one local acquaintance that DWB stops (either Black or Brown) are actually considered a rite of passage for PoC youth once they get their driver's licenses. Especially if they're in areas of town they aren't supposed to be in (Granite Hills, Rattlesnake Mountain, Severn, Grossmont, Chase Ranch, or Fletcher Parkway) later at night - because the "help" and maintenance people of color are always out of those neighborhoods by dark. These are also the locations most of the police make their homes; they certainly don't live in the old tract neighborhoods where the druggies and the under-employed live. It's almost as if there's a group-think attitude of "Community policing was developed to make those bleeding heart liberals feel they're doing something for the derelicts who deserve whatever they get, don't cha know." Very Libertarian.

There's also historically (well, since the 70's) been a large Hell's Angels/drug running influence that has existed in the city and a large Chaldean immigrant population there, many of whom are now being investigated for drugs and extortion under RICO statutes - a major political corruption issue has come up. Oddly enough, the police never seem to have pushed arresting those two groups...they're always after the scattered Hispanic populations and slacker kids (another major sub-group in El Cajon - meth is still a major industry)

Granted, the El Cajon police typically aren't trigger happy - they're typically tazer-, dog-, and baton- happy. Mentally ill people are usually taken down via dog and baton, especially if there's a crowd around.
But my guess will be that since we had two police shot (one killed) in San Diego by supposed gang members a couple months ago, they're running a bit paranoid and are more willing to shoot than bully into submission as they usually do.

The people I still know in El Cajon aren't surprised this has happened. Most are disgusted, but none are surprised. And I've also been told there's more than a few of those "good Christian Law and Order" types who that think Olango got what was coming to him, and his loudmouthed sister should have been shot too, just for trying to get in the way.

Haele

[MrScorpio]

67. Thank you very much for this background information

I really appreciate all the work.

[haele]

70. Local PBS station had a quote from the mayor of El Cajon this morning...

...who had seen the witness cell phone video. Mind you, the county DA (of whom I also have some rather colorful assessments of) had issued an order two months ago that all police incident videos cannot be released to the public as long as there is an investigation, so anyone who says they see from the one frame that was released that the victim was threatening police doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.
This was what I heard the mayor of El Cajon, Bill Wells, say in a press conference this morning on the PBS station:

“I saw a man who was distraught, and a man acting like he was in great pain,” Wells said. “And I saw him get gunned down and killed. If he was my son, I would be devastated.”

The county DA is not going to be happy with what he is saying, especially since Bill Wells job prior to taking a city council position and then being elected mayor was as a clinician working with the severely mentally ill, so he does have a lot of experience dealing with the mentally ill in crisis.

That official quote does not bode well for the police, especially since there are questions as to why the county mental health responders weren't present before the armed police responded to the call - half an hour after the first call from the sister asking for help for her brother who was experiencing a seizure that she couldn't control.

Haele

[Mr Dixon]

69. SAD

Madness, sister should have knew not to call the police to help a mentally ill person how many times does this have to happen before people stop calling for police to help.

[hunter]

71. I know this is sacrilege in our gun-crazy society...

... but maybe arming ordinary cops is a bad idea.

I used to teach in a rough urban school. I wasn't allowed to wear a gun on my hip, I wasn't allowed to shoot or assault kids who were discipline problems.

It seems to me if you need a gun to assert your authority you don't really have any sort of authority at all.