I need to get this off my chest (work-related)

[xmas74]

Something a coworker told me recently keeps going through my mind and I can't stop wondering if what I think is wrong-maybe I should just support her decisions.

The story:
A very young coworker (under 23) spoke with me a couple of months ago, saying she thought she was pregnant. She wanted advice. I said to go down to the local health department and get a pregnancy test done, since they were free at that location. A few days later she came back and informed me that she didn't need the test anymore because she knew she couldn't be pregnant. I told her to get one anyway, because a woman can still spot or sometimes have what appears to be a light period early in her pregnancy.

She came back and spoke with me once again about the topic a few days later, asking questions about gyn exams and birth control. She had no idea about how birth control was used or how it worked and wanted to know from someone who she thought would tell her the truth. (She was raised in a very fundamentalist family and was homeschooled.) I explained to her some of the options and assured her that it didn't mean that she would become infertile. (Yep, that's the only conversation she ever had at home-birth control will automatically you infertile forever and you'll never have children.) I also told her about the services that the local Planned Parenthood offered, since she doesn't have any insurance and only works part-time.

Three days later, she comes back and informs me that she spoke with her boyfriend about it and that he is now pissed off at me. He's yet another coworker, 15 years older than her, married twice before, and has five children. He's angry that I spoke with her about birth control and very angry that I told her about Planned Parenthood. He informed her that if she's pregnant and has a pelvic exam done at the local PP they (the staff) will "suck the baby's brains out" and kill it. She also informs me that she's no longer allowed to speak with me, since I only want to talk about "crimes against God". (Yep, birth control is a crime against God.)

Since then he's made cracks about baby killing when he sees me at work. The other day I went into the locker room and found a wire clothes hanger taped onto my locker.

He's trying to shake me but I'm more concerned about her. She's very young and this is her "first and only boyfriend".He's brainwashing her and convincing her that all the women they work with are temptresses who want to "meddle in their relationship" and who work against God. I don't want to meddle but she should have the right to know what she can and cannot do to her body and that it's perfectly legal and not his decision. I won't offer the info unless she comes to me.

What would you do? (As to him-I've reported him at work but I've been informed that there's no proof.)

[Angry Dragon]

1. He sounds like a fine Christian

Divorced ---- did not god say he should be stoned to death??
Having sex and unmarried?? ....... sounds like a sinner
You are probably in a no-win situation

[xmas74]

7. I suspect I am.

The only way I win at work is that I have seniority over both by a few years at least. I know more people and I've known them longer,which means if they try to drag me in any further I'll bring in other coworkers-and they won't be happy.

[jmowreader]

2. I'd tell her to get a new boyfriend

If he's trying to control who she speaks to now, just think what will happen if they get married.

[xmas74]

8. I didn't tell her to find someone new

I only mentioned that a man who truly loves her would listen to her and respect her opinions, even if he doesn't hold a similar view. It was because of that comment the fur started flying.

[elleng]

3. Nothing to do, imo.

Its really up to her; you've provided info, she can use it or not, and she can discuss with you again.

Awful that she's under the thumb of this bully/oppressor as well as her ignorant fundamentalist upbringing.

[xmas74]

9. I have a problem with it too

but I feel like I can't do anything. I hate seeing someone go through that and feel helpless.

[lapislzi]

42. In a calm, gentle way, tell her that you are available to talk any time.

You can express your dismay that her boyfriend is giving her misinformation, and be sure she understands that she can talk to someone if she is frightened, confused, or feels threatened.

Years of counseling women in domestic abuse situations (this sounds close; if it isn't, it will be soon) have taught me that women stay in awful relationships for reasons of their own, and the best form of support is just that.

A pat on the arm. "I'm here if you need to talk."

Then walk away. I know you care, but you cannot fix this on your own.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. + Brazillion

[NBachers]

4. Is there someone in management who can be told about this and will tell shithead to leave you alone?

The hanger on your locker is a huge violation.

[xmas74]

6. It was reported but

it's my word against his, according to management, and I can't prove who put the hanger on my locker.

[NBachers]

10. You've made a good start with the information in this thread

I think you need to write down each and every incident. Do it on the day that it happens. If you can afford legal help, try to find an attorney who can tell you how to protect yourself.

I've just finished a several-years long ordeal with a manipulative, unstable, and abusive co-worker. He finally engaged in violent behavior that got him fired; behavior I predicted to management years ago.

You need someone on your side to provide backup. Can you find someone like that?

[xmas74]

16. It's hard to do so out there

since he's smart and makes the comment when no one's around.

A few male coworkers would run him off the grounds if they ever caught him redhanded.

[Sherman A1]

21. Document everything

take photos with your cell phone of any harassment such as the hangar, get witnesses, etc.

Start a file at home and or a diary of each day at work & I would protect myself by distancing yourself from them both. You tried to help, but your safety & job comes first.

[byeya]

38. Having a hateful thing like a coat hanger taped to your locker and management

offers to do nothing, you may be close to having a case for a hostile work environment.
Keep the evidence; consider taking photos if such a thing happens again; write down anything
intimidating said to you: Notes made at the time of harassment are often admitted into administrative
hearings.
Consider a consultation with a lawyer who works in this field.

[freshwest]

5. I suggest you advise her to think about not having unwed sex with this man. Two wives, five kids.

He is irresponsible and abusive. The religion is just the biggest excuse he can swing at you and her. I suspect he fully intends to include you in his circle of control as this goes on and she's not strong enough to stop it.

The fact that she has already surrendered herself to a man who was twice married and is either not with his last wife or mother of his children, or committing adultery with her now, shows she has a serious lack of self-esteem and personal boundary issues.

Since these two are into Christian culture, I suggest ordering and giving her a copy of:

Love Is a Choice: The Definitive Book on Letting Go of Unhealthy Relationships

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Love+Is+a+Choice%3A+The+Definitive+Book+on+Letting+Go+of+Unhealthy+Relationships+

This is a book written by Christian psychologists and it describes simply and gently what this young lady needs to know. I was impressed enough with this book that I gave it to several women and they said it helped them define their lives and choices.

Be very careful as this may very well escalate to confrontations or violence with someone who appears as controlling as the man appears to be. He is much too old to be using this younger woman this way, and has boundary issues with you as well that he is not restraining himself from acting out on.

Her family did not equip her for this. And beware, in such situations, you will be found to be at blame for everything from her family and friends for meddling. That she went to him, and exposed you to his bullying, as a sacrifice for herself, is not a good sign. Save your pity and give her reasonable help, try to enlist someone on your side, but in your environment you may end up being the one who gets hurt the most.

JMHO.

[xmas74]

10. I might have to take a look at that book.

When she stated that no Christians believed in birth control I informed her that my church was always open to its use. I invited her to attend services with me but I was informed that it "wasn't allowed".

And his problem with me is that I'm a single mother. He says the first two wives take all his money and spend it on crap, like all women, and that men should be allowed to dictate exactly what the child support can and cannot be spent on. He has also stated that my child's father (who has no contact with us) should be allowed to dictate what faith my child is raised in, where she will live, all activities that she attends/participates in, etc.

IMO, I believe he just doesn't like women.

[MADem]

10. Good grief, sounds to me like he's using seniority and intimidation to get some

swerve off a younger and more innocent employee who is being bullied and manipulated.

Sounds like an HR case to me! His ass should be fired!

[xmas74]

15. Problem with seniority is that I have it over both of them

by many years. He started there a few weeks before she did.

Few people are fired where I work. If he keeps up the crap with me he'll be run off first.

[MrScorpio]

17. First off, there's very little you should do about their relationship

If I were you, I wouldn't say anything to anyone about that.

Second, the conversation between you and the woman is, just that, between you and her. Her boyfriend is way out of line butting into that. Just keep an eye on his ass and document any kind of subsequent retaliations as soon as they happen.

Third, if she is pregnant, well… Let's say that she's going to have to decide what to do about this issue. If she ever talks to you again, perhaps looking for info, you might need to rethink your idea about not giving her any advice. She's looking for help and she doesn't deserve having a door shut in her face.

God knows what her parents would say to her if and when they'll find out.

[XemaSab]

18. That's a tough one

The guy sounds really abusive.

Maybe tell her that if she wants to come talk to you about anything she can and also that it's her choice and not his to plan how many kids she has.

[Kennah]

19. Let no good deed go unpunished

Even though you are right to try to show her options available to her, if she's convinced of her piety then it's time to write off any attempt to help.

Continue to document and report any unprofessional or inappropriate comments, from either of them. Even if HR says there's no proof, and it's your word against his or hers, document it anyway.

[newthinking]

20. Be careful. "The company" is unlikely to look out for you

I was threatened in the workplace years ago. "The company" would do nothing about it. I feared for my job but have always regretted my inaction. I should have reported it to the police. I would have been no worse off (I got screwed anyway), but "The company" would not have been able to protect the employee and ignore what was actually a somewhat dangerous situation they had allowed.

[Major Nikon]

22. What you're experiencing is illegal discrimination

I see at least one basis here which is illegal discrimination on the basis of religion. The cracks this guy is making and the coathanger incident clearly fall into that category. To a lesser extent you may have a case of illegal discrimination on the basis of sex. Mangement has a greater reponsibility than to just say there's no proof of who did it, so there's nothing they can do. They have the responsibility to communicate to their employees that type of behavior isn't tolerated, and to properly investigate those incidents and take the appropriate action.

As far as what I would do, I would aggressively stand up for my legal rights as an employee. I would inform management that I expect to come to work in an environment free from illegal discrimination, and that I expect them to address the issue in a way that insures it won't happen again. If they failed to do this, I would file a complaint with the EEOC. As far as what you should do, that may be a different matter. Doing these things is not easy and you'll have to decide for yourself if it's worth it. Either way, there are things you should be doing now. You should be keeping a record of everything this guy is doing to you. If he leaves a coathanger on your locker, take a picture(assuming photography is not prohibited). If he says something derogatory towards you, write it down. Record dates, times, places, and any witnesses which may have been there. All of this strengthens your case if you choose to file with EEOC at some point.

[Ken Burch]

23. I will say this, whatever happens to you.

If you see any bruises on her, or anything that looks like any sort of an obviously non-accidental injury, CALL THE COPS IMMEDIATELY.

With a bastard like that, it's only a matter of time.

[mercuryblues]

24. You are

opening up yourself for a whole lot of trouble. He could just as easily say you are violating his religious freedom. Does your cell phone have a tape recorder on it. If it does record anything he says to you or any conversations with the young lady. Protect yourself first.

She obviously needs factual advice, if she won't go to PP, refer her to another place. Perhaps a liberal leaning church. I would not give her advice but I would ask her a few questions to get her thinking.

Are you sure you want to be with a man who dictates who you can and can not talk to? He has 2 ex wives and 5 kids, are you sure you want to spend the rest of your life with a man that so easily divorces women he made lifetime commitments to in front of God?

[librechik]

25. I would tell the girl that I was available to talk any time she feels she needs an objective friend

and totally ignore the man--except I would start looking at his work for infractions and errors. Also sexist remarks that create a hostile environment. Keep good written records, and try to find an ally at a level superior to you (if any are sympathetic) about your attempts to keep young woman from being exploited by someone with so much more experience ahem than she has.

Keep your interest at a strictly professional level, for the good of the department. Nothing personal, like the wire hanger thing! That's practically criminal harassment!

If there is no one you can call an ally in your position at work, I would simply try to ignore the both of them, unless you are asked to step in. It is their business, since they are both consenting adults, even if one is very unschooled. This is how workplace shootings are provoked. Watch yourself!

[haele]

26. Leaving the religion out of this, my question is this - is he in her "chain of command" -

Are they equal co-workers, or is her position, work assignments, pay - anything - dependant on him.

Because if she is at all dependant on him for her job in any way, this is just a sexual harassment/EEO suit just waiting to happen when he dumps her, or if she is given work above someone else because she's sleeping with him - or even if she isn't sleeping with him. Another co-worker or even someone looking for work could bring up their relationship. Even if he is using a "common religious background", if he is in a position of authority or influence over her, he is putting everything - his job, her job, the company's standing - in jeopardy by bringing their relationship to work.

His relationship with her is unprofessional. And potentially legally dangerous. I've seen it before, and have the t-shirt.
It's not fun when it finally explodes, and if he's not high enough or important enough to sweep it under the table, he's going to be dumped out on the street on his ass with a reputation for harrassment. Maybe his "church" will help him out, but his reputation will be shot if he wants to work anywhere but where he would be protected by his fellow stooges- err, "brothers in belief".

Not to mention, he sounds like a control freak who has an addiction problem - if it isn't alcohol or drugs or religion or all of the above, he's letting "something else" take responsibility for his poor choices and bigotry in life.

Edited to add this -
A poster above was pretty much correct when indicating that if you make it an issue of his relationship with you, it could turn out badly for you as well as him. Sucks, but that's a problem with the corporate soul. The "politically safe" way of dealing with this is to present it as a problem he will bring to the company, not what he is doing to you. When a complaint is made, the complainer is supposed to be anomynous, but when the investigation is ongoing, unless you're very careful, it's pretty obvious who made the complaint. And of course, document, document, document until you have a strong case!

By presenting the complaints as if you were a neutral "third party", he can ask around all he wants on who made the original complaint and not be able to figure it out. You could just tell him "yeah, well - I don't know who complained about X and Y, but I had no problems telling them about Z because it was obvious you already really F**ed up around here, and your ass was screwed by your attitude before they came asking me about the stupid little crap you pulled on me."


Haele

[Auggie]

27. "Women Who Love Too Much"

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Who-Love-Too-Much/dp/0671733419

[yellowcanine]

28. Tell him to stop with the comments and document everything as it occurs. Note any witnesses.

If he persists, file a hostile workplace harassment complaint with HR against him. They will have no choice but to investigate. If they refuse, see a lawyer for advice.

[cynatnite]

29. Ask her how she feels about this "boyfriend"...

Question her feelings and thoughts. Maybe you can get her to rethink this relationship. Explain that if he truly loved her, he'd want her to do what she wants. He'd care about her thoughts and feelings.

As long as she wants to talk to you, there is not a damn thing he can do about it. Let her know you are her friend and are there for her.

Women in relationships like these need to know that they have someone available to them whether they utilize it or not.

She needs to know someone is there for her. That's probably the best thing you can do for her.

[revolution breeze]

30. My advice

Is to write keep a document stating what you just wrote here because one day soon she is going to need an order of protection against this guy and this story will definately help her obtain one.

[Blue_Tires]

31. twice divorced and five kids?

how does he even afford to take prospective wifey #3 out on a date? The child support/alimony should almost put him in the poorhouse...

[deaniac21]

32. I would mind my own business.

[RebelOne]

34. I agree. Stay out of it for your own safety. n/t

[deaniac21]

48. And mental state. It only puts stress on you.

[mrs_p]

33. What a control freak

Poor young woman and poor you! It sounds like she needs to grow a backbone and all you can do is be there for her when she has questions like this. You also need to make sure you stay safe. Because, honestly, he sounds like a frickin nutcase.

[Liberal_in_LA]

35. OMG

My sympathies for having fundy co-workers.

That's all I got to say.

omg

[JoePhilly]

36. Leave some gay porn around his work areas ...

Or subscribe him to some gay porn and use the work address as his home address.

Sounds like he's earned his own work place scandal.

[Egalitarian Thug]

37. As other's have already said. No contact, copious documentation, see an attorney. This is serious

and can end up costing you your job or worse.

Again, this is serious.
K&R

[LiberalAndProud]

39. Twice divorced fornicator is against 'crimes against God.'

Faith is a funny thing.

You can't save the young woman. It is up to her to save herself. Pardon the double entendre. It was unintentional, but fitting.

[treestar]

40. What's weird is he wants more kids?

And with this girl? And who is he talking about God - he's having sex outside of marriage. These people are such hypocrites. He sounds like an abuser, which probably explains the two divorces.

[siligut]

41. Abusive male preying on an innocent, young female.

Very difficult situation to get in the middle of. This girl has no sense, or very little and this man is a predator. I can understand why you want to help her, but if you are going to try, recognize it is going to be a real fight and this girl may or may not cooperate.

What would I do? Either go all in or walk away.

[msanthrope]

43. Cut off contact with both of them, document EVERYTHING-every interaction you have with both of them.

She cannot be trusted anymore than he can. And, don't be surprised if she turns against you to keep favor with him.

I say this as an attorney...document all interaction you have with them, even innocuous, and refuse to engage. You should consult an employment attorney in your state as to your employer's obligations to you. Does your workplace have a mediation process????

[obamanut2012]

44. Beat me to it -- THIS

You are in danger. NO CONTACT. Do not react, and contact someone.

I'm NOT an attorney, but have dealt with something similar.

[xmas74]

45. Thanks everyone

I broke off contact with both of them after the first couple of times. I know he's decided to keep it going. She's been given the info that she needs about what to do, in case she needs it. There's not much more I can do for her.

As to comments about infringing against his religious beliefs-he's the one who is loudly informing everyone that my church is "unChristian" and not to be trusted. In other words, he's persecuting me for my faith. (FWIW, I'm a mainline Christian.)

IMO, he's bringing it on himself.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

46. No good deed goes unpunished

This poor girl has been abused and kept ignorant all her life, and is now being manipulated by a creep like this.

Unfortunately, you should politely tell her you do not wish to discuss any personal matters with her any longer. You've pointed her in the direction of good information, but I fear you will only be frustrated by whom she will ultimately put her trust in, an abuser. It's not worth your job.

[demmiblue]

47. Regarding documentation: e-mail a copy of what you write down to your own e-mail account.

That way there can be no question as to when the incidences occurred. They also won't be able to accuse you of making up information after the fact.