The SPLC has not lost its legitimacy.

[Are_grits_groceries]

Those of you trashing the work of of the entire organization are helping the alt-right and others trying to discredit a major group that has stood up against hate for a long time.

If you disagree with their characterization of some people who are listed as anti-Muslim, then read what they say about each individual in that group and why they put them on the list. The SPLC is not infallible but neither should the wrongful inclusion of someone on a list discredit decades of work. This is if they are wrong on that matter.

Congratulations on jumping on the bandwagon against the SPLC in hopes of some to bring down everything they do.
I won't ignore a problem in an assessment of theirs but neither will I stand by and watch many try to get the American public to turn against another progressive group.
Here are some links. Find out what they have said and done.
https://www.splcenter.org/

https://www.splcenter.org/20161025/field-guide-anti-muslim-extremists#ali

[alarimer]

1. They made a mistake, that's all.

It would help if they acknowledge that they added some people to a list that they shouldn't have. Criticism of Islam should not be equated with bigotry, but it too often is. This and every religion needs to be criticized. They are misogynistic anachronisms and need to be brought into the 21st Century.

[deaniac21]

2. Hear hear

[yardwork]

10. Maybe they didn't make a mistake.

[Historic NY]

3. Thanks to Morris Dees & the centers work

many laws we enjoyed were the fruits of their labors. As to their assessment...it wasn't just theirs. The KKK & racists still push their trash against the SPLC.

[pinboy3niner]

22. They have a beautiful National Civil Rights Memorial at their HQ in Montgomery, Alabama

I made a point of visiting there on a cross-country trip and it was awesome! Designed by Maya Lin, who also designed the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C.






The Civil Rights Memorial was dedicated on November 11, 1989.
http://www.splcenter.org/civil-rights-memorial

[dalton99]

4. The SPLC does important work.

They have done a great service to this country.

[LanternWaste]

5. Anything less than perfection results in illegitimacy

Anything less than perfection results in illegitimacy; if that were not the case, the "very smart" individuals calling the SPLC illegitimate would support their shrill allegations with evidence.

Or (and this may be a wee bit more likely) the allegations of the SPLC's illegitimacy are simply due to the SPLC not validating the particular narrative of a biased POV.

[dalton99]

8. That's how swiftboating begins.

[Ford_Prefect]

17. Amen

[mountain grammy]

6. I've been supporting this organization for years..

and will never stop, in fact I just increased my donation.

[stone space]

7. Islamophobia is a thing here at DU, unfortunately.

[Albertoo]

43. Islamophobia is a fake term

There are valid reasons to criticize an ideology which stifles free speech (apostasy, blasphemy) and sexual freedoms (criminalization of LGBT people)

[stone space]

45. wow!

Islamophobia is a fake term

[Marr]

9. If it's a 'mistake' they should correct it.

I'm not going to ignore something this offensive because I've agreed with them on other issues. Labeling critics of Islam as bigots is major problem on the left and I'm not supporting anyone who advances it-- I don't care what else we agree on.

[ck4829]

25. Irshad Manji isn't on this list and she shouldn't be

Just being critical of Islam, practices of Muslims, and so on don't seem to qualify someone to be listed here.

There seem to be some other qualities that the SPLC uses to take into consideration here:
* Violent and dehumanizing rhetoric
* Attempts to ingratiate oneself with police and military, trying to 'train' them
* "Embellishing" record of ties to the Muslim world (Walid Shoebat is a perfect example of that)
* Side stepping into other issues; far right, homophobia, anti-immigration, etc.

[procon]

11. The criticism seems to be about one man, Maajid Nawaz.

A con man and grifter by the looks of things. For those who disagree with SPLC's analysis, do your own digging. Skip the glowing testimonials and the feel good puff pieces, and get deeper into his harsh history and the lifelong associations of this individual.

Another source that completely supports SPLC's report of this man was documented in this indepth expose from Alternet:

http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/self-invention-maajid-nawaz-fact-and-fiction-life-counter-terror-celebrity

[Marr]

31. Wow, they've got a deceitful smear article for everyone who criticizes Islam, don't they?

That particular piece is one of the worst I've ever seen. Showing video of Nawaz in a strip club... seriously? The man isn't a practicing Muslim and flatly says as much, and IIRC, that was his bachelor party.

[procon]

32. There's simply too many sources that expose this guy and the others

to ignore the SPLC article that builds on the cited works of several well qualified and credible contacts. If they were the lone voice, criticisms of their work might have merit, however, they are but the latest iteration of many previous works documenting these scoundrels. Your impassioned opinion obviously reflects your personal allegiances and as such it is neither good nor bad, but neither is it on a par with the well researched analysis presented in the SPLC report.

[Marr]

35. There's no shortage of people attacking him, certainly.

But I don't think hatchet jobs qualify as 'exposing' to anyone who doesn't already share a desire to see the person marginalized.

[rug]

37. He and his Quilliam Foundation did exactly what you erroneously accuse the SPLC of doing.

List sent to terror chief aligns peaceful Muslim groups with terrorist ideology

• Quilliam Foundation's list 'not for public disclosure'
• File for counter-terror boss branded 'McCarthyite'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/aug/04/quilliam-foundation-list-alleged-extremism

[Albertoo]

44. Your article is written by two people with sympathies for conservative/radical Islam

One is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist (a US plan), the other wrote for a pro-hezbollah newspaper

[Wounded Bear]

12. I still like what they do, for the most part...

no organization is perfect. Frankly, I didn't read the article. I very seldom let one link or article change my opinion about things.

[Hekate]

13. Christ on a trailer hitch. Our side is colluding in bringing down another liberal icon?

AGAIN?

[lillypaddle]

14. Other than $5 to the

McGovern Campaign, my first donation ever was to The Southern Poverty Law Center. I think it was about $2.

Julian Bond was my hero.

[enki23]

15. They made no mistake in this instance.

[Grins]

16. This is too confusing.

This is too incomplete a post.

"...trashing the work of of the entire organization..."

Who and what 'trashing'?

"the wrongful inclusion of someone on a list".

Who? Which list?

[FSogol]

18. +1 Well said. n/t

[barbtries]

19. same with the ACLU

though i stopped donating when they came out against prosecuting the bush administration.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/pardon-bush-and-those-who-tortured

i may pick it up again down the road.

[Upin]

23. In summary...

... the SPLC screwed up and it's our fault for calling them out on it.

There was a time where being included on that list was on par with getting on the sex offender list. It was a real sign that a line had been crossed.

Whatever wounds they have are self inflicted and they need to feel the pushback from it to avoid making such mistakes in the future.

[ck4829]

24. They have not lost one iota of legitimacy

The SPLC also makes note of people who leave bigotry behind, ex-Klan members, ex-Neo-Nazis, etc. It might be possible in the future that the people listed here will do something positive... Walid Shoebat admits he isn't really an ex-terrorist who is making bucks fostering paranoia, John Guandolo admits the real reason he was booted from the FBI was because he was sleeping around on the job not because of some ancient Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy against him that involves the whole US, you never know.

[Hoyt]

26. An important group, perhaps more so right now as Trump's white wing supporters

are become bolder.

[Taitertots]

27. The SPLC drew a line in the sand

They won't support justified criticism of religion under the guise of stopping discrimination. Putting them on the side of female genital mutilators, honor killers, apostate killers.... They are now illegitimate.

[ck4829]

28. Yes, yes, it is truly unfortunate the SPLC is not on the side of con-men, conspiracy theorists,

oh, and an attorney who went out of his way to defend someone involved in the Haditha killings.

https://www.splcenter.org/20161025/field-guide-anti-muslim-extremists#muise
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Muise#United_States_v._LtCol_Jeffrey_Chessani.2C_USMC

"dozens of jihadis doing multiple operations in conjunction with the Marxist and socialist groups like Black Lives Matter"
-John Guandolo

Not our ally.

“there are only a couple of degrees of separation between anybody on the left and the terrorists — and that includes people in the Democratic Party, even those who are anti-terrorist.”
-David Horowitz

Not our ally.

"People need to understand that this is just the beginning. The (Muslim) fundamentalists are on the upsurge, and they make it clear that they are targeting us."
-Daniel Pipes, the 'beginning' he is referring to is the Oklahoma City Bombing. Yeah.

Not our ally.

If this is the line that SPLC is one side and these guys are on the other, then I'm on the side of the line with the SPLC.

[Oneironaut]

30. People are just tired of the left's over-enthusiastic defense of Islam.

I can't say whether or not the SPLC was correct, but there is an oversensitivity to Islam apologists. It's especially annoying and hypocritical to hear it from people who bash Christianity. Both belief systems are backwards and deserving of ridicule. The left has an odd segment of Islam apologists who refuse to admit how backwards Islam is.

I hate how we can't even bash Islam without being called racists and bigots by people in our own party (Ben Affleck, for example). One can bash Islam and at the same time respect Muslims - the two are separate entities. One is a belief system, and the other is a group of human beings.

[Rex]

33. Who the hell is this Left that keeps defending Islam?

Most people I see posting here and there that are progressive denounce the barbaric treatment of women in many Islamic states. Deplore the actions of terrorists. Demand a halt to more aggression in the Middle East.

Ben Affleck? SERIOUSLY? You care what an actor thinks? If we are worried about what actors think, Bill Maher goes on tirades against Islam live on his show! Where have you been?

[ericson00]

39. this^^^^ Also, after Trump loses, the Democratic Party better fix itself on this issue;

I know people who are splitting their ticket, voting for Hillary at the top, but Republicans for the rest, just as punishment for the condoning of obfuscation of Islamic extremism. I also know people who have changed their registration over this because they refuse to be part of a party has many of its members, and sometimes party apparati, speaking out of one side of their mouth about religious crazies for some people, but the other side for other people.

And the distinction between Islam and Muslims is this: I don't hate Mormon people, but I don't like Mormonism. I feel that way about Islam; we all should, if we're truly liberal.

[stone space]

40. It is Trump and the GOP who are wrong on this issue, not the Democrats.

this^^^^ Also, after Trump loses, the Democratic Party better fix itself on this issue;

[kcr]

54. Oh, you know people? Well, okay then.

No one else knows other people. Thank God you're here to set everyone else straight. What else are these people-you-know saying, while you're at it? What are these movers and shakers doing that we just have to know about?

[stone space]

41. Democrats just aren't about bashing Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or atheism. That would be the GOP.

I hate how we can't even bash Islam without being called racists and bigots by people in our own party (Ben Affleck, for example).

[ismnotwasm]

51. The West has little true understanding of "Islam"

We can certainly "bash" horrid acts by people who happen to be Muslim.


By Choosing to focus on rogue states and horrific actions by those who claim without legitimacy to represent Islam, we completely ignore the history of large influential countries such as Saudi Arabia.

It's a complex religion, one that is centered in many areas of poverty vs wealth, plus the aftermath of colonialism.

No atrocities are excusable. Blaming an entire religion is, at best, shortsighted.

I understand what you are saying though. I don't like atheism, with the tendency for destructive predjudice and mindless cruelty to persons of faith --but I like most atheists.

[Oneironaut]

56. You can use a religion's holy book as a reference for that religion.

Reading the Bible or Koran shows us how outdated Christianity and Islam are. They have no place in the modern world. Has religion been influential on history? Definitely! Should this mean that we are forced to respect it in modern times? I don't think so - why should we?

How are atheists cruel to persons of faith? Why are religious beliefs any more deserving of respect than other beliefs? If someone came to you and told you that all humans were created by a purple dragon that lives on the Moon, wouldn't you find this belief ridiculous? Religious beliefs do not have any more validity to them than other absurd beliefs.

[Rex]

34. Word.

People turn so easy sometimes, it is scary.

[ericson00]

38. they didn't lose their legitimacy YET, but they've definitely lost a lot of moral authority

and if they keep going this route, then they will lose their legitimacy.

[ismnotwasm]

42. K&R

[Warren DeMontague]

58. The idea that criticizing Fundamentalist fuckhattery is supposed to be off-limits is bullshit.

I'm sorry, but if you have a million people who think it should be okay to arrest gay folks, then that million people are wrong and deserve to be called out.