Once we reach "Hail Trump!" it's no longer wrong to hope for the Electoral College...

[Silent3]

...to override the voters, especially when such an "override" would simply put them in line with the MAJORITY who voted for Clinton.

Of course I know it's damned unlikely, but some have said we shouldn't even hope for the Electoral College to change the results of the election because that would set a bad precedent, be undemocratic, etc.

But acting as a safety valve against a clear threat to democracy isn't undemocratic, it's one of the main reasons the Electoral College exists.

We've already got rising Neo Nazis and the KKK, a $25 million dollar fraud settlement, huge conflicts of interest becoming more and more apparent everyday, worrisome connections to Putin, and even for "deplorable" electors, Trump backpedaling on things like the Wall and repealing Obamacare.

I keep hoping something even more damaging will come out about Trump before 12/19, something even those who have shamefully ignored Trump's failings so far would have a hard time overlooking.

[pangaia]

1. But how woll anything come out?

Where? There is no media left.

[world wide wally]

2. WTF is the Electoral College for anyway?

I have heard it was another tool to protect the slave states along with the wording of the Second Amendment.
Is this the result? We surrender our country to the slave states after all this time?
The EC is so out of whack and unfair as it is. Why on Earth is a citizen in Wyoming's vote worth three times as much as a citizen in California? I am sick of the most backward and conservative factions in this country controlling everything we do.
Fuck them.

[MrScorpio]

3. Buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride...

[longship]

5. Bette Davis called it, too.

Here with a retrospective on Bette:

The first is from the awesome film, All About Eve.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

4. two have flipped. and they are working to get more.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/305920-two-presidential-electors-to-colleagues-dump-trump


And

Thanks to Warren Senders for this:
MONDAY ACTION - Republican Senator Lindsey Graham AND Democratic Congressmen Elijah Cummings are both calling for investigations into Russian interference in our election and collusion with the trump campaign. Support both efforts by calling them and saying you want the investigation.
Senator Graham [phone] [phone]
Rep. Cummings [phone]
PLEASE COPY AND PASTE, TO SHARE WITH YOUR FRIENDS!!!

[brooklynite]

13. Chiafolo has already said he won't vote for Clinton...

[SleeplessinSoCal]

17. wonder if that still stands.

Wasn't that before the election?

[tblue37]

6. The Repub plan is to get him sworn in, impeach him, then control the more malleable Pence. nt

[Silent3]

7. I consider that a distinct possibility, and much more likely than EC to the rescue.

While that's a pretty horrible outcome too (Pence will be just as bad on women's rights, climate change and other environmental issues, SCOTUS, probably worse on gay rights and separation of church and state) at least he isn't so unstable and narcissistic and authoritarian. He wouldn't cozy up to Putin and ruin our relationship with NATO. He doesn't have anywhere near the conflicts of interest that Trump does, and would be unlikely to fleece the country to line his own pockets like I expect Trump to do with gusto.

I "only" fear a lot of horrible policy from Pence, just differing in details, and being stuck with a conservative SCOTUS for a decade or two (same as would happen with Trump anyway), but I don't fear a collapse of American democracy itself, that there might not be any more elections for a while to free us from Trump.

The only thing I can see holding Congress back from impeachment is that a bunch of Republicans may by now actually like being on the Trump Train, and the rest might fear electoral backlash from what's now (and mostly has been for a while, even if most Republicans didn't realize it and/or want to court it so openly) an energized Republican base happy the authoritarianism and white nationalism of Trump.

If Congress is going to impeach Trump, they'd better do it quickly, because I fear that Trump might use the excuse of the next terrorist attack (no matter how big or small) to seize "emergency powers" and make Congress and the courts irrelevant.

The main point of my OP isn't it's at all likely the EC will switch to Clinton, but just that I don't object to that idea as setting some sort of bad precedent (as long as we're still stuck with the EC, saving the country from possible tyrants is one of its intended functions), nor terribly undemocratic in this particular case, since Clinton did after all actually get more votes.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

8. The EC can't stop Trump eithe

unless the Congress lets them, which is unlikely.

[Silent3]

9. Depends what the EC does

If what happens is that enough electors dump Trump so he doesn't reach 270, but not giving Clinton at least 270 at the same time, then you're right -- the election gets decided by the House, and they almost certainly stick with Trump (they can't just choose a totally new candidate, the can only choose among the top three choices made by the EC).

But if the electors give Clinton 270, then Clinton wins outright and the House has no say in the matter. While it might disgust many of those electors to vote for Clinton, if their true aim is to get rid of Trump, and not just make a symbolic gesture, it's their only viable move.

But here's an interesting twist: While as citizens we vote for a combined President/Vice President ticket, the electors vote separately for each office. They could (and if this happens at all, probably would) stick Clinton with Pence as her VP.

Then they get to try to impeach Clinton, and if they succeed, they get Pence as President without Trump ever being in office even briefly.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

10. "But if the electors give Clinton 270,

then Clinton wins outright and the House has no say in the matter."

Wrong.

Congress can reject any electoral votes they want to - any pledged Trump electors who vote for anyone other than Trump will have their electoral vote rejected, and if no one gets to 270, it will go to the House.

[Silent3]

11. Can you give me a citation for that power the reject electoral votes?

I don't see that here, in the 12th Amendment (which superseded Article II, Section 1, Clause 3):

The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;—The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;—The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

After all, if that power existed, why wouldn't the last Republican congress (who obviously felt no little or no restraint from integrity or fear of public outcry) rejected numerous Obama electors and then voted Romney in?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

14. Sure

Can electoral votes be contested when Congress counts the votes in January?
Under federal law an objection to a state’s Electoral votes may be made to the President of the Senate during Congress’s counting of Electoral votes in January. The objection must be made in writing and signed by at least one Senator and one member of the House of Representatives. Both the Senate and the House of Representatives debate the objection separately. Debate is limited to two hours. After the debate, both the Senate and the House of Representatives rejoin and both must agree to reject the votes.
In January 2005, Ohio’s 20 Electoral votes were challenged. After debate, the Senate and the House failed to agree to reject the votes. Ohio’s 20 Electoral votes for President Bush and Vice President Cheney were counted.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/print_friendly.html?page=faq_content.html#contestvotes

[tblue37]

12. Unfortunately, that conservative SCOTUS will be for 30-40 years, a generation, not a decade. nt

[cwydro]

15. It's not going to happen.

It's just not.

[Hortensis]

16. Right.

Incredible as it seems with the kind of news we're getting these days, I'm afraid of what the right may be holding back, just to be careful, until after the EC votes.

[cbdo2007]

18. We need to make all the Repubes OWN THIS from the top to the bottom.

"Hail Trump" means the same thing as "Hail Ryan" or "Hail McCain" or whoever. As long as they support him, they as just as bad as he is.