I could never figure out why the U.S. was so "afraid" of Castro they brought the hammer down

[shraby]

on any and all interaction with the tiny country. When you look on a map at the difference in size not to mention the wealth difference, it makes no sense at all.
I believe it's the only country that Americans were forbidden to travel to. We were warned about travel to other countries from time to time, but mostly because of civil/military unrest in them, so the travel warnings were just that..warnings about the safety of travel there.

The Cuban stance in my mind made no sense at all and I still haven't figured it out. Contact with governments of that sort, usually serves to make them less despotic and more liberal in the long run. Contact with a tiny nation like that would not have made a lot of difference in our country at all. Or amIwrong?

[guillaumeb]

1. Cuba, like Haiti before it,

was an example of non-white people daring to think that they could escape white domination.

And both countries suffered greatly because of daring to revolt,

[oberliner]

17. The majority of Cubans are white

Including Castro.

[guillaumeb]

20. Some disagree with you:

Including the Cuban Government office tasked with compiling demographic data.

The demographic characteristics of Cuba are known through census which have been conducted and analyzed by different bureaus since 1774. The National Office of Statistics of Cuba (ONE) since 1953.
Cuba is inhabited by mostly by Mulattos (45%), while minorities include black (35%) and white (20%).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Cuba

So my statement remains, as does my analysis of the issue.

[oberliner]

21. That link you provided says 64% of the population is White

Ethnic groups
Whites: 64.1%
Mestizo: 26.6%
Blacks: 9.3%

Interesting how the Wikipedia entry contradicts itself.

[guillaumeb]

22. And I repeat:

The demographic characteristics of Cuba are known through census which have been conducted and analyzed by different bureaus since 1774. The National Office of Statistics of Cuba (ONE) since 1953.
Cuba is inhabited by mostly by Mulattos (45%), while minorities include black (35%) and white (20%).

SO either the composition has changed greatly or how one is classified is subject to change.

[heaven05]

29. white looking

but then again that's all a person has to be to be welcomed into the family, I guess.

[flamingdem]

31. Sorry, you are very wrong. It's about 35% white only

and most of them have some mixed blood in the family.

The idea of white is fungible in Cuba, many mixed people say they are white on surveys for example.
You kind of get to chose there.

[oberliner]

35. I'm not wrong. It's about 65% white.

Here is the information and the link:

Ethnic groups:
white 64.1%, mestizo 26.6%, black 9.3% (2012 est.)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html

Here's the link to the Cuban census from 2012 (in Spanish):

http://www.one.cu/censo2012.htm

[flamingdem]

36. That's what I mean, you can't trust the surveys

because people don't identify themselves correctly.

You'll find other figures that go the other way in many places.

Plus, visually you can see it.

[flamingdem]

37. Here you go with some figures - 62% black - by US standards

The 2002 census, which asked Cubans whether they were white, black or mestizo/mulatto, showed 11 percent of the island's 11.2 million people described themselves as black. The real figure is more like 62 percent, according to the Institute for Cuban and Cuban-American Studies at the University of Miami.

[oberliner]

38. How about if I change my statement to: "Most Cubans identify as white"

Would that be fair to say?

[flamingdem]

39. I don't think they do, they have a different concept of white which is

white ish. As in "I'm not black". Sadly there is racism from the less black to the black.
But, being a mulato is classic Cuban and they are the most popular at the moment for
aesthetic reasons, so I'm told.

It's a fascinating topic down there. Each variation of race has a term that goes with it.
For instance white skin blue eyes black features is jabao different from mulato, pardo,
trigno, morro.

[djg21]

30. Not really.

The conflict with Cuba was more a reflection of geopolitics and the Cold War than race. It was the fact that a communist regime, and ally of the USSR, was less than 100 miles from the United States. It was the fact that when Castro came to power, he nationalized hundreds of private companies, including subsidiaries of U.S. corporations.

This brief summary from Time Magazine is pretty good: http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891359,00.html

And from NPR: http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/12/17/371405620/the-u-s-and-cuba-a-brief-history-of-a-tortured-relationship

[guillaumeb]

45. Ignoring the influence of race is never a good idea. As much of US history shows.

It was obviously about geopolitics, and also based on the US idea that this entire hemisphere is US territory in all but name, but racism also guides geopolitical thinking.

[global1]

2. Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead - The Wicked Witch Is Dead.....

Instead of getting on with the future of American/Cuban relationships now that Fidel is gone - it seems that people are still holding a grudge.

When I hear the kind of rhetoric being bantered about by Repugs now - I can only think that money and greed are behind it - and as soon as they feel that they can enrich their donors going forward - that things will settle down.

[HAB911]

3. The same ignorat paranoid reason

"under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954

[awoke_in_2003]

8. But communism can't be the only reason

Thousands of American soldiers were killed by Chinese communists in Korea. Thousands were killed by Vietnamese communists in that conflict. Yet, both are trading partners.

[Exilednight]

44. The more ironic part is that the pledge was written by a communist.

[guillaumeb]

46. Money trumps proclaimed ideology. eom

[exboyfil]

4. Castro "stole" property from the wrong people

Since he was on par with the guy we supported in terms of human rights (Batista). I always wonder what would have happened if we had just made a deal instead of trying to topple and then assassinate him. Admittedly I have not studied the situation much. The Cuban immigrant situation lent power to the hard line, and, Castro's alliance with the USSR, sealed the deal for containment. I guess some Cubans still think their will reparations for the stolen property.

Cuba does have the same position as England (referred to as Airstrip One in 1984). That situation was further reinforced by the medium range ballistic missiles in Cuba.

[Raastan]

26. Yes, it was "big sugar" and other American economic interests in Cuba

That were seized by Castro. Millions were lost and many hold grudges, not to mention losing face to Communists...

[SharonAnn]

28. And don't forget organized crime ownership in Cuba. They ran a lot of the "government".

[djg21]

33. But the US didn't maintain support for Batista

To the contrary, the US imposed an arms embargo on Batista which helped Castro take power. Eisenhower's economic embargo of the Castro regime came a couple of years later, after Castro had nationalized U.S. businesses.

[apcalc]

5. Why? -The fear of the spread of communism,

The domino effect,

And the cold war with the Soviet Union.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Yet we have

trade relations with China and Vietnam.

[apcalc]

23. Cuba is right next door, China a world away.

The Vietnam war was fought to halt the spread of communism too.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. During the Cold War, especially during the '50s and '60s,

there was a policy that basically said that it was essential to prevent any Communist regime from establishing the slightest toehold anywhere. The other part of it was that the people who left Cuba when Castro took over were the sugar plantation owners and other landowners who had become wealthy under Batista. When they left Cuba they lost most of their money and so of course they hated Castro. Since they were (former) plutocrats they became Republicans when they moved to the U.S., and formed a powerful voting bloc in southern Florida. Politicians have placated them ever since by treating Cuba much more harshly than was necessary to contain the "Communist menace."

[moondust]

13. Partly McCarthyist hysteria.

"Domino theory" and all that. The Cold War propaganda still gives me a f-ing headache.

I see the crowds in Florida cheering and dancing at Castro's death and can't help but wonder how many of their family members were somehow in cahoots with the (American?) mob that was doing big business under Batista and sort of colonizing Cuba at the expense of Cubans.

[yallerdawg]

7. Nuclear weapons 90 miles from us?

I guess you never practiced ducking under your desk at school.

[TexasProgresive]

10. I was born in 1950 and lived in New Orleans sometime in the '60s

Never did a duck and cover drill. I suppose it was known that was a futile exercise especially in N.O.. If you wanted to construct a bomb shelter it would have to be like a submarine, pressurized with enough ballast to keep it from floating above ground. And yes N.O. was an AAA target as the #2 port in the U.S..

I agree with the OP, I never understood why the harshest measures against Cuba. I personally think that if we had offered a friendly hand to Cuba after Batista Fidel would not have taken such a hard communist line. Since the closest neighbor would not help he turned to U.S.S.R. who was more than willing to give aid. All this was before the installation of missiles.

Which is a moot point since we had them in Turkey and Iran pointed at the U.S.S.R..

[yallerdawg]

12. We did it at my public school - Putnam City in OK City, OK.

We did it at Cardinal Valley School in Lexington, KY.

See a bright flash out the window - you could be blinded - bend under your desk and cover your head with your arms.

Tornados, we evacuated the classroom and crouched in the hallways.

Civil defense shelters with radioactive symbol in public buildings!

Thanks for the memories, Fidel!

[shraby]

16. Nope, never had to duck under the desk. We weren't that stupid. As early as high school

I figured out that there was no way those "evacuation" plans for places like NYC, etc were useless.
We lived in the upper part of lower Mich. and never had drills like that.
We had fire drills in case of fire but that's it.

[djg21]

40. Dating yourself . . .

I have memories of doing fallout drills while in first grade in 1969. My class was marched out of our classroom and into the hallway by our teacher, Ms. Eithier, and made to sit against the wall for about 30 minutes, and when a signal was given, put our heads between our knees.

I vividly remember one drill on a day that was particularly sunny. Ms Eithier, who was a little redhead probably in her 20s at the time, had explained that fallout was like dust. I then sat against the wall watching particles of dust circulating in the bright rays of sunlight coming through the big windows that were at shoulder height in the hallway, thinking that if a nuclear bomb had been detonated, sitting with my head between my knees probably wasn't going to help much.

[world wide wally]

11. Why are we opposed to Cuba, but we elect a Russian puppet as our President?

[ronnie624]

14. They defied US hegemony, it's just that simple.

They had to be taught a 'lesson'.

Thank goodness they didn't suffer Indochina's fate.

[MineralMan]

15. The cold war and the nuclear arms race. That's why.

I remember it very clearly, since I was a high school kid at the time. The Cuban missile crisis was the crucial point in it. Nuclear arms based in Cuba were simply something that couldn't be tolerated at the time.

It wasn't Cuba, really. It was their relationship with the USSR that was the issue.

Was it a real concern? I can't say, to tell you the truth. I simply did not and do not have the knowledge to judge what was going on then. It was a tense time, though. That much I can say from living through it. In 1960, we were still having nuclear bomb drills in our schools in California and bomb shelter signs were everywhere. My father even built a fallout shelter under our house, with my assistance.

So, that's a big part of the issue that led to our relationship with Cuba. It was 54 years ago. I remember. It was a strange time.

[shadowmayor]

18. Cuba a convenient foil

The end of the Cuban Missile Crisis was essentially the end of the real cold war. Mutually Assured Destruction - that would be the final result of a nuclear war. All the build ups and bullshit that took place in the following decades were designed to transfer as much of our public treasure to the MIC as the American people could stomach. Fear sells, and we kept the facade going to insure that the Corporate Masters suckling off the giant teat of tax dollars could continue with their war machines and production lines. And it continues to this day. Now it's the Muslim world instead of the Communists. And we wonder why our infrastructure, health care, education system, and green energy programs are so inadequate and dilapidated? In the end, it's a giant snow-job that the populace is willing to buy hook, line, and sinker. Our country is much more willing to kill people in other countries that we're trained to be afraid of, rather than helping people who live just down the road from us.

[madokie]

19. I think you're right

[JI7]

24. it wasn't Cuba itself but soviet empire and we were in a cold war

[YOHABLO]

27. Fidel Castro reached out in his earlier days to the U.S. and

was rejected. Castro wanted to develop good relations with the U.S., but when the U.S. government made that difficult, he turned to the (then) U.S.S.R. for security. Without the Soviet backing the U.S.would have eventually invaded Cuba. This is why the Right Wing in this country hated Kennedy. Because he thwarted a planned invasion by Cuban X-pats and the U.S. military. One of the conspiracies behind his assassination.

[burrowowl]

41. Right on!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. Have you considered the possibility of motivations other than fear? N.T.

[flamingdem]

32. Reason why is that the oligarchy went to Miami and strangled

US Cuba policy for years.

We're still dealing with their stench

[TheBlackAdder]

34. Just like the Native Americans--Both refuse to suck the dick of White Hegemonic Imperialists

[lonestarnot]

42. Did you forget about the Russians again?

[lostnfound]

43. Read Noam Chomsky for answers in a context that makes sense. And consider Reagan vs the Sandenistas

Schlesinger was reiterating the laments of Secretary of State John Foster Dulles, who complained to President Eisenhower about the dangers posed by domestic "Communists," who are able "to get control of mass movements," an unfair advantage that we "have no capacity to duplicate." The reason is that "the poor people are the ones they appeal to and they have always wanted to plunder the rich." It is hard to convince backward and ignorant people to follow our principle that the rich should plunder the poor.

In high school thirty five years ago I wondered WHY the US sided with so many repressive right wing dictators, like Ferdinand Marcos, Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Iran, Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Papa Doc Duvalier, Trujillo, etc. I was so puzzled by this, and by the connection of the School of the Americas. Only after 9-11 did I stumble across a Noam Chomsky book (try Rogue States or Deterring Democracy or Perhaps Profit over People) and I found the answers. As clear as day, the pieces fit together.

Democracy is only supported so far. In predominantly poor countries, when a population elects leaders who pursue policies that seek to redistribute wealth or give ownership of natural resources to the masses, capitalism is valued more than democracy. Noam Chomsky talks about the need to "prevent the power of a bad example". If Cuba had continued to have U.S. trade, dollars, and tourism, but they used it to benefit their own poor masses in an egalitarian way, the idea might have succeeded and spread. The idea of solidarity circles for example did spread throughout Latin America, and U.S. foreign policy there has been a series of efforts to oppress the left wing socialists (and social democrats).

The book Shock and Awe by Naomi Klein also presents an eye-opening, important perspective on the more sophisticated methods that evolved afterward -- creating or capitalizing on economic shocks, using the World Bank to impose "austerity plans".

[retread]

47. Did not want a successful example of a non-capitalist country in this hemisphere.