Unfortunately, Donald Trump can never be a "legitimate" President...?

[kentuck]

...Because he can never have the "consent of the governed".

The Republicans are operating under the illusion that Donald Trump is one of "them". But, is he?

In the polls, as reported in the media, both Hillary and Donald had very low numbers in favorability before election. "They" were able to drag Hillary's numbers down to where Donald Trump's numbers were from the beginning and they succeeded in doing so.

But, from what we have seen thus far, Donald Trump is not going to be a President for all of America. And the last numbers we had seen on the popular vote, Hillary Clinton was ahead by more than 2 million votes! That means Donald Trump is in the minority. Unless he can win a lot of Hillary supporters to his side, he will be leading the country without the "consent of the governed".

That means he cannot be a "legitimate" President.

This is just my opinion.

[cilla4progress]

1. This is great

Do you recall where "consent of the governed" originates?

[kentuck]

2. I think that is in our Declaration of Independence?

I will check.

[kentuck]

3. Here we go:

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

[Grey Lemercier]

4. unless you voluntarily leave the country, and toss away your citizenship

then you are giving "consent". The simple act of staying and living in the USA, paying taxes, working, abiding by the laws, implies absolute consent.

Leaving after the next 2 elections might the best solution IF the next 2 elections (2018, with is possible 60 seat supermajority outcome for the Rethugs, and then the Census-year 2020) go completely for the Rethugs, and thus the SCOTUS will be 6-3 or even 7-2 ultra RW), the 2020 Census will be gerrymandered by the state legislatures (69 out of 99 are in Rethug hands) to ensure 12 more years of House Rethug domination. IF all goes the Rethug way in 2018 and 2020, and you are a PoC and/or LGBTQ, and/or a progressive, you are so fucked if you don't bail on the country. Harsh, but true, IF those go haywire. The USA is so big, and so isolated in terms of legal immigration options that most of those tens of millions will never get out.

[kentuck]

6. I would have to disagree with that.

The simple act of "staying and living" in the USA does not imply absolute consent.

If you voted for it and you are in the majority, then that would imply "consent of the governed". It is determined by votes.

However, if you are attempting to rule in some manner that is not acceptable to the majority, then you are going against the "consent of the governed".

Just my opinion.

[Grey Lemercier]

17. the huge barrier to rectifying a minority-supported (numbers wise) government in the US is the

very apparatus of government itself, the Constitution. The Republicans have patiently, methodically gamed the system from top to bottom, especially at state, county and municipal levels, and thus finally, the national level as well.

The Electoral college cant be changed without a Constitutional amendment, and the small states will never vote away their overrated power there. Score one for the Rethugs

Your congressional districting is determined at state legislative levels, where the Rethugs control 69 out of 99 bodies. Unless a miracle happens in the 2020 elections, the 2020 Census will be used to further gerrymander Rethug House control for another decade. Score 2 for the Rethugs.

The Senate, under Democrat control waved the filibuster for most things other than SCOTUS appointments, and now that is going to utterly bite us in the ass. Post 2018 (the map is that bad), we could be staring at a 60 seat Senate super majority of RW'ers. Score 3 for the Rethugs.

The SCOTUS is now in danger of going 6-3 RW majority (if Ginsburg retires or dies in the next 4 years) and 7-2 if Breyer retires. Kennedy might retire too, and that takes a away any chance for a pull back from RW to LW. If Trump is (the horror!!!) somehow reelected, we are staring at 7-2 for decades, as I doubt Ginsburg and Breyer (maybe Breyer) can last 8 more years. Score 4 for the Rethugs

ALL of those are absolutely not only legal, but given full weight of all power by the instrument of government, the Constitution. The Constitution allows for a minority of people to rule the majority, even if the majority of people dissent STRONGLY. The Rethugs have cockroached into all the cracks of the law, and played the nation for fools. It took decades, and was done in the open (albeit with dark money funding).

We can philosophically scream from the mountaintops, but legally we are bound, and our consent is forcefully (by legal assumption and apparatus) taken for granted.

If you have another way of looking at it, I would gladly hear you out.

[kentuck]

18. "The Constitution allows for a minority of people to rule the majority..."

... "even if the majority of people dissent STRONGLY."

But isn't that exactly the reason we had our Revolution?

[Grey Lemercier]

20. indeed it is, and now I think millions are finding out (albeit for totally different philosophical

reasons) exactly how the Sovereign citizen nutters felt and why they toss out bombs like "Revolution against tyranny."

Our reasons are just, theirs are not, BUT that is also leading us down the same road they want. This is stuff that Civil Wars are made of. No hyperbole.

The Rethugs have gamed the system, and after 2020 we will know for how long and how bad. If shit goes entirely their way then (POTUS, Senate, House, states, all with a decade plus forward control, except POTUS), then all progressives, LGBTQ, PoC. immigrants are in mortal danger. The rollbacks of all civil rights will be insane, the SCOTUS (at a 6-3, 7-2 RW level) will back the tearing up of all the gains we have won over the last 63 years (1954 Brown v Board onward). No hyperbole.

If that situation does happen, then yes, we will be looking at possible violent rebellion or possible succession of key LW states (CA, WA, OR, the entire Northeast, etc). This is no longer in the realm of truly crazy fiction. Hopefully we can stop them in 2020 (POTUS and some state houses pulled back), The Congress is too far gone until after redistricting (atm the post 2018 senate looks like 57 to 60 Rethugs seats), and that looks like further Rethug post 2020 Census gerrymandering at this point. Ginsburg and Breyer have to hold on 4 more years. If they go, the SCOTUS will be 7-2 RW. If Trump (or Pence is orange hitler is impeached) is reelected, then I cant help but see the SCOTUS at 7-2 RW for 15 plus years)

[Grey Lemercier]

21. a look at 2018, 2020, and 2022 Senate races

2018

Dems will have 11 or possibly 13 hard races, all defending seats, many in red or purple states, all in an off year, and we historically do poorly in many midterms (hopefully this will NOT be the case)

FL Bill Nelson (probably retiring, but will be hard race even if not)
IN Joe Donnelly <<< probably toast, a deep Red state now, look at Bayh's collapse and Trump won by almost 20 points
MI Debbie Stabenow (2nd safest of these 11, but will not be easy)
MO Claire McCaskill <<< probably toast, DEEP red now, she barely beat an insane Rethug last time, and Trump won by over 21 points
MT Jon Tester <<< probably toast, DEEP Red state now, Trump won by 24 points
ND Heidi Heitkamp <<<< toast, she barely won last time, and trump won the state by over 35 points, the other ND Senator, Republican Hoeven won 78.6 to 17%
VA- Tim Kaine, (safest of the 11, but again, will be a battle)
NJ Bob Menendez (mainly due to his criminal case, if it is not resolved and he runs still)
PA Bob Casey (definitely a hard race)
WI Tammy Baldwin (definitely a hard race)
WV Joe Manchin (may switch to Republican or might be in big trouble, over SEVENTY percent of WV voted Trump, Manchin already said he will support all of Trump's picks, and Trump will de-reg coal)

then these

NM Martin Heinrich (probably safe unless Susanna Martinez, who is termed out, runs)
OH Sherrod Brown (not as safe as Heinrich, especially if termed out Kasich runs for Senate) Portman won by over 21 points

ME (Angus King, Independent, will probably win fairly easily)


The only Republican seats Dems can realistically flip are

NV Dean Heller

Maybe, maybe Jeff Flake in AZ

the rest are pretty much 100% Rethug safe seats (MS, TX, TN, NE, UT, WY)



2020


we have to defend these (I don't list the safe ones) the positive thing is that all are winnable for us

Massachusetts Ed Markey (Charlie Baker would make it tough)
Michigan Gary Peters
Minnesota Al Franken (second safest)
New Hampshire Jeanne Shaheen
New Jersey Cory Booker (safest)
New Mexico Tom Udall (safe unless Martinez waits to run against him)
Virginia Mark Warner


and the Rethugs have to Defend these (all the rest are safe)

Colorado Cory Gardner (by far our best hope to flip)
Maine Susan Collins (if she retires is much less safe for the Repubs, if not, it is safe)
North Carolina Thom Tillis (decent shot to flip)


I would say we gain 1 or 2 seats, not a chance for 3, unless Collins retires, plus we have to defend ALL 7 I listed



2022


we defend these

Colorado Michael Bennet
Nevada Catherine Cortez Masto
New Hampshire Maggie Hassan



Rethugs have to defend these


Arizona John McCain (probably retires, as he would be 92 at end of his term if he runs)
Indiana Todd Young
Missouri Roy Blunt
North Carolina Richard Burr
Pennsylvania Pat Toomey
Wisconsin Ron Johnson

I could see us picking up 3 to 4 net, but that will not be enough to pull back the majority



bottom line, we are probably looking at at least 8 years straight of Rethug senate control, and if things go truly shit in 2018, maybe a supermajority control for 2 years. This all depends on Trump not blowing up the world or getting impeached, so who the hell knows.

[jmg257]

5. He may not be "legit", but he will have a leaning-his-way Senate and House, and be picking justices

for the USSC.

It'll be legitimate enough for him.

[kentuck]

9. That may very well be true?

But, does that make it right or legal?

[jmg257]

11. Legal? Yes. Right? By whose standard? I guess its right if he won within the rules of the game.

There really aren't too many people who didn't know what trump is REALLY all about.

Its not like he hid it all that well.

[kentuck]

14. Does he have any responsibility to try and govern with the "consent of the governed"?

Since he did not win the majority of the votes of the people, he is not, at this time, a "legitimate" president.

On top of the fact that he refuses to make himself transparent with either his income tax returns or his business holdings around the world, some in places that are not in the best interests of the United States of America.

No, he is not yet "legitimate" in my opinion.

[jmg257]

15. I understand your points, but he DID win. (as of now anyway). Again - that is all he will need.

He clearly feels plenty of people consented...and off he goes.
To the point he may even be trying to be too much to too many (as he backs off one campaign "promise" after another)

[Fast Walker 52]

7. Yes, I think he will have a very hard time governing-- unless something horrible happens

like a terrorist attack, that allows him to grab dictatorial power.

But his positions are not popular with the GOP, and he can't keep his promises either.

The shit will hit the fan soon, one way or another.

[kentuck]

10. That is a scary thought.

[Fast Walker 52]

12. yes it is... but we have to be on guard for that scenario

And yes, I'm thinking 9/11 helped GWBush under similar circumstances.

[world wide wally]

8. I think we should all claim a loss of 1 billion on our income taxes next year

[Fast Walker 52]

13. LOL!

great idea!

[Gothmog]

16. I do not consider Trump to be legitimate

[roamer65]

19. Rutherfraud B. Trump.