The Rachel Maddow Show Tonight: Go BERNIE !

[JoeOtterbein]

I know who is MY Dem leader; the person who makes the most sense and is not afraid to say it out loud. And Bernie did it again tonight on the Rachel Maddow show. He showed from the heart he is the one to follow. He is an elected politician who is not afraid to stand up for ALL of us. We DUers should follow his ideas about the future, which include; universal healthcare, universal college for the qualified, etc. But most importantly he is ready to fight on the same ground as the GOP. In other words he is ready, as usual, to take on the establishment AND play hardball against the GOP agenda!

What more can we ask from any Dem leader?

[flamingdem]

1. I really felt that

Bernie is all in and we need him

[elleng]

2. Yes, and along with Schumer,

from what they both said on Rachel tonight, with whom he appears to agree on many things, we're moving along.

[flamingdem]

4. Schumer was better than I thought

Seems like the two have created some dynamism, did you hear Schumer say that they went to the same high school!

[elleng]

5. Yes, just posted that elsewhere.

I LOVE it (and particularly cause I grew up in Brooklyn, til age 9.)

[JoeOtterbein]

3. Yes, thanks!

[Dustlawyer]

6. Me, my mom and my adult kids will be out protesting on January 15th with other like-

minded Americans! It will be the first of many in the next 4 years I am sure! While I am very worried about the reason we are doing it, I am looking forward to doing it. It will be positive and uplifting to be around so many dedicated and committed Americans. If the Trumpsters show to counter-protest it will be on though. I will not back down!

[JoeOtterbein]

8. I'll be out too on Jan 15, I hope we all join it!

[zentrum]

13. Need to also ask

…you why January 15th? What's happening then?

I thought the march for women was the day after the inauguration, which is on the 20th, so the march is the 21st. Have I missed something?

[demmiblue]

17. Sanders, Dem leaders urge day of rallies to 'save health care'

Democratic leaders are calling for rallies across the country to fight Republican efforts to overhaul Medicare and repeal ObamaCare.

The Democratic leaders, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), as well as Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), wrote a letter to colleagues Wednesday calling for a “day of action” on Jan. 15.

“Rallies will be held across the country to vigorously oppose the Republican plan to end Medicare as we know it and throw our health care system into chaos,” the letter states.

The leaders dubbed the effort, “Our First Stand: Save Health Care.”

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/312000-sanders-dem-leaders-urge-day-of-rallies-to-save-health-care

Here is a link to the letter: https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/161222-Dear-Colleague-Health-Care-SIGNED.pdf

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. I'm all in!

[zentrum]

57. Thanks. I'm in. Just...

...like we had to demonstrate in the streets to get Obamacare. But the media never covered it.

[pnwmom]

9. Jan 15th?

[democrank]

7. Bernie was inspiring tonight.

He's not ready to give up and neither am I.

[NanceGreggs]

10. "What more can we ask from any Dem leader?"

Well, actually being a Dem would be good for starters.

I've always had a problem with someone who says, "I want to lead you, and I want you to do as I say - I just don't actually want to be one of you."

[elleng]

11. I don't think Senator Sanders has said those things.

[NanceGreggs]

12. No, he hasn't.

But his supporters have - over and over. If he's such a great "Democrat", as his supporters claim, why isn't he actually a Democrat?

And please don't give me the usual "he's a better Democrat than most in the party" nonsense. If you refuse to BE a Democrat, you aren't one.

[zentrum]

15. He's an FDR Democrat

…..no matter what what he's called. A rose is a rose….

It's not the name. It's the values.

[NanceGreggs]

21. FDR was a Democrat.

Bernie isn't.

It's not a matter of what one is "called" - it's a matter of being a member of the team, or refusing to be one.

Bernie steadfastly refused for decades - except when it suited his political ambitions.

[flamingdem]

34. Bernie is unique, and so is Vermont

Some things don't fit in precise boxes.

[NanceGreggs]

36. Sorry, but no.

Bernie was an Independent - who was then a Democrat-of-Convenience - and has now gone back to being an Independent.

If "things don't fit in precise boxes", Bernie shouldn't be putting himself in precise boxes depending on whether they suit his political ambitions at the time.

[longship]

75. Not this shit again.

Q: Which party has Bernie Sanders caucused with his entire political career?

Q: Consider Vermont. Which US state has a fierce adherence to independent politicians? Remember Jim Jeffords?

There are your answers, my dear Nance. Love ya, but the Bernie is not a Democrat narrative is inoperative.

[flamingdem]

77. Yes, and lordy do we need him now!

Where are the other strong voices? Bernie articulates very well what we're up against. He's the real thing and I say that as an accused authoritarian on DU (an Obama supporter back in the day), hahaha.

[NanceGreggs]

78. Oh, no! Not the "Bernie caucused with the Dems" ...

... shit again.

That doesn't make him a Democrat. The only thing that makes you a Democrat is BEING a Democrat - which Bernie has steadfastly refused to do.

Maybe you should ask him why. I'd be interested in hearing his response.

[longship]

84. I'll stand by my post, Nance.

And how exactly does one become a Democrat? Please tell me.

Is it registering to vote as one? I cannot do that in my state (MI), nor can anybody in VT, nor in many other states. So the label one assigns to ones voter registration is utterly irrelevant since many states have no such labels. The same thing with open primaries which are pretty much mandated in such states. Let everybody vote!

I don't give a fuck what Bernie calls himself. For decades he has carried the water for, and supported, the Democratic Party. His allegiance, no matter what label he chooses -- remember, he lives in Vermont -- is not in question.

Your argument is a strictly rhetorical one. In this case, Bernie's actions speak for themselves.

And yes, I gladly supported Hillary Clinton. But I have zero problems with Bernie Sanders, who I proudly voted for in the primary. (BTW, he was on the Democratic ballot.)

[NanceGreggs]

87. Bernie declared himself an Independent for decades ...

... then declared himself a Democrat when he wanted to run on their ticket.

He then declared himself an Independent again when he lost the Dem nomination.

So let's not pretend he has no choice in stating who he is, and which party he is a member of.

[longship]

90. Who cares!

He's the US Senator from Vermont where they take their independence very seriously. Remember Jim Jeffords, another "independent" VT Senator.

And as to Bernie declaring himself as an independent after the election, he never declared himself as anything other than an independent. However, and he stated this very clearly, he would run for president as a Democrat. Now one could try to make something nefarious out of this by screeching that he isn't really a Democrat. However, that's just screeching. His political record is very clear.

Running as a Democrat ably demonstrated his allegiance. Regretfully, that's not good for some people. Apparently they have a need to screech.

Sorry, my friend. Love your posts, and will support them. But not on this issue. It's time to set these things aside and focus on what's happening now. Thankfully, the Democrats will still have Bernie Sanders in the US Senate to help.

[NanceGreggs]

100. It's like this, my friend ...

It is one thing to say so-and-so demonstrates good Christian values. It is quite a different thing to say so-and-so IS therefore a Christian.

It is one thing to say so-and-so exemplifies Buddhist teachings. It is quite a different thing to say so-and-so IS therefore a Buddhist.

It is one thing to say so-and-so adheres to Democratic principles . It is quite a different thing to say so-and-so IS therefore a Democrat.

This is especially true when so-and-so has repeatedly stated that he is NOT a Christian, NOT a Buddhist, and NOT a Democrat.

Why is this concept so difficult for Bernie supporters to accept? He has stated repeatedly that he is NOT a Democrat - so why this constant insistence that he IS what he himself has said HE IS NOT?

[longship]

102. Well, my friend, he certainly acts like one.

And he has never caucuses with any other party.

I responded here because although we've already agreed to disagree on this, some folks do not read through the entire thread.

So let me say right here that Nance and I are still on the same team in spite of the fact that we disagree on this particular issue.

[NanceGreggs]

103. Acting like something ...

... and BEING something are two different things.

I saw this response after we'd agreed to disagree - so I responded.

And YES to all concerned, longship and I are on the same team - that would be the Kick Trump's Ass team. And I couldn't ask for a better teammate.

[longship]

104. Thank you Nance! Thank you very much.

[NanceGreggs]

105. Right back at ya!

[SujiwanKenobee]

138. Sounds like theological arguments

You lose the ideals in assigning niches. He's expressing the spirit which is better than the form you are insisting on.

[pangaia]

140. +2.385,193

[Hortensis]

191. "Rhetorical" that Bernie SAYS he is independent

and specifically NOT a Democrat? Some of you have a very strange notion of respect. Who CARES what Bernie says he is? Really?

Or is it that dishonesty is so inculcated in a post-truth culture that even a seemingly slightly unpleasant truth this like one is--quick!--discarded before it has to be accepted?

Truth is, Bernie is not a Democrat. Bernie is PROUDLY not a Democrat. He is using the Democratic Party and it is using him, with hopes on both sides that it will work better than otherwise.

I recommend dealing with that not very harsh reality. 'Cause if IT's too much to handle, you'd better not take a gander at what's happening on your right or your heads might explode.

[R B Garr]

99. Yeah! Maybe an analogy is like someone who won't join

a Union, but he wants to lead everyone else. If the Union is so great then pay your dues and join already!

Being on the outside only means he wants to continue throwing stones without being accountable. We've had enough of that divisiveness already and it goes nowhere.

[NanceGreggs]

101. Perfect analogy!

I never trust anyone who says "I don't want to BE one of you - but listen to me when I tell you what you should be doing".

Bernie is the personification of the old Groucho quote about not wanting to be a member of any club that would have him.

[mcar]

125. My favorite Groucho quote!

"I refuse to belong to any club that would have me as a member."

[dionysus]

115. Again, who the fuck CARES?! Shitting on your scapegoat is apparently more important

to you than fighting against trump!

[MaeScott]

118. And this is a Dem, for crying out loud.....

Seung Min Kim‏ @seungminkim
Manchin is skipping Obama meeting with Ds later today. "In good conscience, I can't do it." Tells MSNBC parties should be working together





smh

[pangaia]

141. Thank you for that....

It doesn't take rearranging the brain to perceive that Bernie IS in fact a democrat.
it just takes cleaning out the habitual, automatic way of seeing something.

[Hortensis]

190. Profoundly disrespectful to Bernie. Do we imagine

he's lying when he says he is officially independent, or perhaps do we imagine he's too senile to know? He is what he is, and if you respect him you will take HIS word for it.

Here's my word: Bernie is an anti-Democrat with a talent for public speaking who uses the Democratic Party because people like him are too contentious, uncooperative, delusionally uber-righteous, ruthless in action, and intolerant to hold together a functional party of their own. They've tried a bunch of times before in this country, you know, but they've always fallen apart for various reasons, the usual being infighting over relatively small issues that competent groups work out.

Admire him all you want, but admire the REAL Bernie Sanders, sparkles and warts.

[George II]

130. Some pithy quotes from Sanders over the years (there are lots more):

“I am not a Democrat, period.”

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”

“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”

“I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat"

“The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans in this city is that the Democrats are in insurance and the Republicans are in banking.”

[Jakes Progress]

173. OMG. You didn't just use Bernie's own words did you?

Don't you know that there are people here who need him to be whatever they need. Don't go using Bernie's own words to prove that he is exactly what he says he is. They will cry.

[George II]

174. .

Good one! Thanks.

[Tatiana]

70. So is Joe Manchin, but I'm not trying to follow him.

Bernie espouses the same values of old-school, traditional populist Democrats. And I'm happy to have him, even if he identifies as an Independent.

[Hortensis]

188. Agree entirely. Dem leaders feel Bernie can be helpful

rousing the left from the stump, and I hope that's true.

But he is not only not a Democrat, he is an anti-Democrat. He betrayed our trust during the primary with frequent lies as bad as any from the right that Hillary was stealing the election from him--lies that did a great deal of harm, lies that helped elect Trump, lies that many of his fringe of supporters still believe today. He also filed a pack of phony lawsuits in support of these lies to get them reported in the news, then dropped them all quietly once they'd done their seditious job.

And worst of all, in his irrational over-righteousness and contempt for Democrats, he promised and, in fact, did try to get the superdelegates to set our vote aside (which of course went overwhelmingly for Hillary) and effectively appoint him the nominee instead. His attempt to overset democracy itself and thwart the will of the people of the Democratic Party didn't even come close to succeeding, but we owe that to the principles and good judgment of the superdelegates.

I do trust the judgment of our leadership in taking this chance on him by making a new, special little position for him at the bottom of the leadership, which he occupies effectively alone. Note that Elizabeth Warren, the progressive leader I can trust, is positioned near the top of the leadership where she can be moved to the top as time passes. Let's just hope to heck Bernie is more of an asset than a liability this time and that they can contain his inevitable occasional attacks from within.

[femmedem]

117. Exactly. I don't care how many people register as Dems. I just want progressive policies enacted.

I serve on my Democratic Town Committee--and I have my frustrations with leftists who won't register as Democrats, and thus can't caucus or vote in primaries. But getting more folks to register as Democrats isn't an end in itself; it's a strategy to get more progressive candidates elected and more progressive policies enacted.

Bernie does not need to be a Democrat in order to be a leader in that fight. He inspires and activates a lot of people who are disenchanted with party politics.

[Hortensis]

192. Sensible comment. And since Bernie has done

more than his part in convincing those people to be disenchanted at a time when we needed as many as possible to be excited and hopeful, he really owes it to us all to try to inspire new hope. If only he can contain his divisive urges.

[Gore1FL]

16. If semantics are the issue, he is a great leader and representative of the left coalition.

He's cut from the cloth of the Democrats before we started apologizing for our values. That's Democratic enough for me.

[NanceGreggs]

19. Being willing to BE a Democrat ...

... or refusing to be one is not "semantics". You either identify yourself as a member of the Party, or you don't.

Bernie was quick enough to "be" a Democrat when it served his personal agenda. And the minute the Party's resources were of no further value to him, he promptly identified himself as NOT being a Democrat.

Never trust the guy who disparages the club for decades - then "joins" the club when they're electing a club president - and then quits the club the minute he realizes he wasn't elected.

[Alekzander]

22. I don't see that as being an issue. Bernie is what he is & he does not just talk the talk. I will

take that over someone who has been a Dem or DLC whatever who says one thing but is weak & talks out of both sides of their mouth. I have no idea how the leadership is going to play out but I hope there are some wise choices being made for where the party is going to go.

[NanceGreggs]

24. Talking out of both sides of the mouth?

Do you mean like this:

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party." - Bernie Sanders

By his own admission, when asked why he ran as a Dem, Bernie said it was because he couldn't get the necessary media attention if he didn't.

He then went on to call the Democratic Party "corrupt" while campaigning on their ticket, and claimed to be "the one" who could fix it.

While campaigning as "Mister Transparency", Bernie never did cough-up complete tax returns - and blamed his wife for not being able to "find them" - when a phone call to the IRS would have produced those returns immediately.

Has Bernie ever - ever taken any responsibility for the failure of his own bid for the nomination? All I've ever heard from him is how everything was everyone else's fault.

[pangaia]

30. Right. He didn't run AS a Democrat, he just IS one.

[NanceGreggs]

59. Not according to Bernie.

I'm astounded at how many here keep insisting Bernie is something he himself has repeatedly declared he is NOT.

Is he lying about what he is? Or are his adherents trying to make him into a member of the party he has repeatedly claimed he is NOT a member of?

[pangaia]

64. Please see my reply about a koan.

The thing is, if I explain what I mean, you will never agree, But, if you figure it out for yourself, you will understand it. You may or may not agree, but you will understand me.

[Hortensis]

194. But WHY do you need to imagine Bernie is a Democrat?

Don't you realize that to him he IS something he considers of far greater moral and intellectual value? Far, far, far greater than the eternally, completely corrupt Democratic Party he's famously despised for decades?

WHY do some of you deny that? It is truly bizarre, you know: HOW can you guys simultaneously claim to admire him and also claim he's lying about his own beliefs and positions?

Do you even know what they are?

[pangaia]

195. Ummmm...... keep pondering on what I said.... or not....

either is ok....

[Hortensis]

196. This is going to sound harsh, but I feel I understand

why Bernie behaved with such seeming disregard for his most passionate followers after losing the primary. A huge Bernie strength is that he has always known what he believed in and has believed in it passionately.

He has never been the kind of personality cultist who would idealize a talented orator on a dais instead of committing to ideas and principles, and he has always been a person who despises all who don't share his ideas and principles. They have always been rocks in the path of his progress.

I can only imagine what he would be thinking of those of his followers who ignore his own statements of principle to insist he's a Democrat, but being Bernie I really doubt he's paying attention.

[pangaia]

198. I could just comment on one thing..

"....he has always been a person who despises all who don't share his ideas and principles..."

I have not found that to be the case. But I also am not.. offended... if that is the right word, with what negative things other people say about him.


Nevertheless, that said, I am talking about something totally different. And I have just decided not to give it up easily..That is why I used the word, KOAN.
Some people see what I am getting at. Others don't. That's ok.

[Hortensis]

202. Well, I can't follow into a level of enlightenment I

haven't attained, no surprise since my participation in silly stuff like this proves a sad lack of wisdom. In any case, it is reassuring that enlightened souls feel being a Democrat is a desirable attainment.

[pangaia]

203. Unfortunate you feel it necessary to ridicule.

I didn't ridicule you.

[Hortensis]

204. I thought I avoided ridicule. I did wonder if

something meant to seek truth was actually being used to obscure the need to accept truth, but I'm a literal sort of person and immediately out of my depth with anything that can't be grabbed and measured.

I do try to pay serious religious beliefs the courtesy of not treating them as something that can be degraded to pop culture fancies, but again I have no idea if that's what's happening here either. Peace.

[George II]

131. In his own words: "I am not a Democrat, period."

[Alekzander]

127. Don't see that as talking out of both sides of his mouth. I am just fine with him right where he is

& nobody has cared about it all these years & he is doing nothing different from anything he has done.

Also, as far as corruption of the party, he appeared to be some right correct there as well.

As for responsibility for the loss in the primary, nothing needs to be said about that but a lot does need to be looked at & analyzed for why Clinton ignored her grassroots teams out in the midwest, why that election was lost. Not blaming her, does not good for anyone but we need to know what went wrong. We know a lot about the primary between Bernie & her unfortunately.

If you want just the same old thing all over again, I think there are too many who see how those days are gone.

[Gore1FL]

23. We have a 2 party system when it comes to running for president.

The math of the electoral college makes it that way. Unlike in parliamentary systems, in the United States, we, therefore, build or coalitions prior to the election and not after.

He is a member of the left coalition. He is a member of the Democratic Caucus. He was elected as a Democratic Socialist to eh Senate. He chose to return when his presidential bid failed.

I have seen your posts and mostly consider them to be thoughtful and interesting reads. You are much better informed that your gripes on this issue would imply.

[NanceGreggs]

25. He is also NOT a Democrat.

By his own choice. In fact, he disparaged the Democrats for decades - until he wanted to use their resources to further his own political ambitions.

[pangaia]

31. Yes he is a Democrat.

[NanceGreggs]

35. Not according to the man himself.

Are you calling him a liar? I figure he knows what party he's a member of better than you do - and he has said he is not a Democrat, he's an independent.

[pangaia]

45. Yes,but he is a democrat.

[musette_sf]

48. No, Sen Sanders never was and is not a Democrat.

[pangaia]

53. Yes he is a Democrat.

[musette_sf]

129. I see your response to facts

is to keep catapulting fiction. Sen Sanders is not a Democrat. And I say this as someone who has respected and admired him for the better part of a decade.

[Hortensis]

197. How nice that someone here respects Bernie for

who and what he is. Imagine he'd appreciate it too.

[NanceGreggs]

52. Can you post a link ...

... to where Bernie has joined the Democratic Party?

He is seeking to be re-elected to the Senate as an Independent, NOT a Democrat - so how does that work?

[pangaia]

55. There are no "links." You will just have to figure this one out for yourself.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

93. They're technically correct, but I also treat him like a Democrat...

based on his progressive values. and I like him a lot!

I'd probably consider someone from the long-defunct Bull Moose Party to have the values of a modern Democrat too, but they would obviously be a BM Party member.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)

The platform's main theme was reversing the domination of politics by business interests, which allegedly controlled the Republican and Democratic parties, alike. The platform asserted that:

To destroy this invisible Government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.

To that end, the platform called for:

Strict limits and disclosure requirements on political campaign contributions
Registration of lobbyists
Recording and publication of Congressional committee proceedings

In the social sphere the platform called for:

A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled
Limited the ability of judges to order injunctions to limit labor strikes.
A minimum wage law for women
An eight-hour workday
A federal securities commission
Farm relief
Workers' compensation for work-related injuries
An inheritance tax

The political reforms proposed included:

Women's suffrage
Direct election of Senators
Primary elections for state and federal nominations

The platform also urged states to adopt measures for "direct democracy", including:

The recall election (citizens may remove an elected official before the end of his term)
The referendum (citizens may decide on a law by popular vote)
The initiative (citizens may propose a law by petition and enact it by popular vote)
Judicial recall (when a court declares a law unconstitutional, the citizens may override that ruling by popular vote).

[pangaia]

122. Well, I certainly just learned something... Many thanks

[George II]

134. In his own words: "I am not a Democrat, period."

[Gore1FL]

32. You're picking nits.

He is a fine example of values that Democrats once were and will hopefully one day return to.

The "resources" are part of the left coalition's nomination process. I wish more people had availed themselves to those resources in 2016. Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden would have been a great addition to the field.

[NanceGreggs]

42. You're either a Democrat ...

... or you're not.

That's not nit-picking. It's self-identification - and Bernie has self-identified as an Independent, NOT a Dem - except for that brief moment in time when being a Dem was advantageous to his political ambitions.

I don't think claiming to be a Democrat only when it suits you is a "Democratic value", nor has it ever been.

[pangaia]

49. Nance, you're missing the substance. :)))

The inner meaning, there are words and there are words.
In Mandarin the word we would write as "yu" can have many meanings, depending on the tone and/or the Chinese character.

[NanceGreggs]

54. How incredibly irrelevant.

The "substance" here is that Bernie is NOT a Democrat - and has stated so himself. Why don't you believe him?

[pangaia]

56. My reply was extremely relevant.

I guess we are now into koan territory.

[NanceGreggs]

62. I guess we are now in territory ...

... where Bernie himself has declared himself NOT a Democrat - but his supporters keep claiming that he is.

[pangaia]

144. KOAN.

[kenfrequed]

60. Right...

Screw policy and issues... I mean, it is so much better just to have D next to your name than to actually stand up for progressive ideals.

Is this what you are going to be doing for the next two years... The next four years?

Because if it is I can tell you one thing you aren't doing.

Helping.

[NanceGreggs]

63. This discussion isn't about ...

... policies and issues. It's about whether Bernie is a Democrat or he isn't.

And he isn't - by his own words, he isn't.

[kenfrequed]

67. No.

The discussion the OP started was basically about how great it is that Bernie is still fighting and that Maddow is covering him.

You want to spend the next two or four years grousing about Sanders?

Fine.

The rest of us (and Bernie) are going to spend that time fighting Trump.

[pangaia]

71. Bravo!!

[George II]

135. In his own words: "I am not a Democrat, period."

[LiberalLovinLug]

137. And there we finally have got to the truth of where your loyalties lie

And revealed that you care more about a letter in front of a name, than what kind of person and ideas, beliefs, morals, or values they have.

That any old blue dog DINO is way better than someone that fights for the same values you have, and your party has traditionally held.

You give more respect to Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller because of a letter.

You give more respect to all the Blue Dog DINOs that vote along with the Republicans on important issues and against Bernie and the majority of Democrats.

At least we now know where you stand Nance.

[NanceGreggs]

160. ...

This discussion has absolutely nothing to do with me caring what letter someone has after their name.

My only point has been that Bernie himself has stated that he is NOT a Democrat; he is an Independent.

I don't understand why some people don't believe him when he identifies himself as not being a Democrat. Don't you think he's in a better position to know what his affiliation is than posters on a website?

[LiberalLovinLug]

161. And the final nail in any argument on DU is...

the ROTFL smilie.

A letter, even a whole word. Why are so so hung up on a word?
You never addressed whether you respect a Zell Miller over Bernie Sanders, simply because of the fact that one was a Democrat and one is an Independent.

I know you have an affinity of calling out religious hypocrites. Here's a line from the One and only Himself:

"Ye shall know them by their fruits" not by if they belong to your favorite club.

[NanceGreggs]

166. If you'd bother to read my posts in this thread ...

... you would know that my only argument has been that Bernie is NOT a Democrat, has clearly stated that he is NOT a Democrat, and should be taken at HIS OWN WORD.

My posts have had absolutely NOTHING to do with who's a good Dem, a bad Dem, a respect-worthy Dem - nothing.

Again, I don't know why Bernie supporters keep insisting that he is a Democrat, when he's repeatedly said he isn't. It would seem that those people are a lot more hung-up on whether Bernie sports a (D) after his name that I am. Why else would they keep insisting that (D) belongs there, when the man they keep attributing that (D) to has told them, over and over, that he doesn't WANT that identification attached to his name?

[LiberalLovinLug]

185. Who is insisting he is a card carrying Democrat?

Obviously he is not.
And I didn't see too many that would think that.

That was not my argument.
But whatever.

[pangaia]

66. Whew thanks for the help.

[Hortensis]

199. You're missing the point that Bernie would be

a really piss-poor Democrat, IF that is what he was. He would be constantly accused of causing trouble within his own party, sabotaging his own party, etc.

But it's NOT his party, as he says again and again.

It is only by being seen as the independent Bernie really is, one who has decided to work WITH the Democratic Party to achieve those goals they share, that Bernie can promote his own principles and ideals without clouding issues with outrage and accusations of betrayal. He and the party leadership understand this.

Everyone understands this except for those who bizarrely idolize him and at the same time insist he is what he despises. Why, only psychologists would be able to explain.

[mobeau69]

79. I don't want to get into the middle of this but

damn, you're good.

[NanceGreggs]

82. Well, thanks for that!

I don't think I am particularly "good" at anything here. I am just posing the obvious questions.

If Bernie is a great Dem leader, why isn't he a member of the party his supporters think he should lead?

If Bernie is "better than most Dems" (as some claim), why doesn't he join the party he's so much "better than"? If he's better than most Dems, wouldn't he rise to the top of that party, a position from which he could actually accomplish something?

If Bernie is (wink-wink, nudge-nudge) a REAL Dem, why doesn't he say so - instead of claiming to be an independent, which his supporters say he's really not, despite his own words?

If Bernie is the voice of REAL Democrats, why was he rejected by Democrats in the primaries? Is it because he's the REAL Dem, and actual members of the party are "fake Dems"?

Funny how some Bernie adherents insist he's "really a Democrat" despite the fact that the man himself insists otherwise.

[tecelote]

133. Sorry, but I don't get it.

Why does it matter so much to you?

Shouldn't we be building a coalition of Democrats and Independents to save the world from destruction brought on by our common enemy?

Why be divisive when we need every bit of help we can get?

[Hortensis]

200. My question is, WHY they want him to be a Democrat?

Are we Democrats so wonderful that they have to coat him in blue Democratic Party paint to be able to idolize him?

Do they lack the guts to follow Bernie away from the big blue group, to be able to stand proudly in left-of-Democrat-land? Does it look cold and scary out there? Perhaps they still hope to purge the party of, oh, 60 million Democrats and proclaim it their own?

That's what is bizarre to me. Their leader must be visually twisted into what he despises. Doesn't have to be real, apparently, just for comforting optics.

[Gore1FL]

120. You are a member of the Democratic caucus or you're not.

He is.

The exclusive group you are trying to form is too small to win elections. Their ideas are too small to win elections, too.

[NanceGreggs]

157. I haven't said anything about winning elections.

My only argument here has been that Bernie is not a Democrat - as he himself has said repeatedly.

[Gore1FL]

162. He's still a leader of the left coalition

We can go around in circles if you want to play semantic games. I'd rather take good leadership and good values where I can find them and utilize unity to win.

[NanceGreggs]

163. Fine.

Just don't tell me that someone who has repeatedly said they are NOT a Democrat is actually a Democrat, despite their own words.

[Gore1FL]

164. I never did.

I just said it was a semantic argument.

[NanceGreggs]

167. I wasn't talking about you personally ...

... but the posters on this thread.

And it's not "semantics". When Bernie says "I am NOT a Democrat, I am an Independant," shouldn't HE be the one who decides who and what he is?

[Gore1FL]

170. I guess, but in a 2 party system, it's simply a matter of semantics. nt

[pangaia]

143. "You're either a Democrat ...... or you're not. "

I disagree. I think there are other, wider ways to view the issue.

[putitinD]

152. I don't care if he calls himself a bologna sandwich, I like his politics, America needs his politics

[jack_krass]

73. He more Democrat than 99% of Democrats

[NanceGreggs]

76. Ah, the classic response.

If he's more of a Democrat than 99% of Democrats, why ISN'T he a Democrat to begin with?

If he's such an outstanding model of the Democratic Party, why doesn't he join that Party? Is he just too good to be one of us? Is he above it all? Is he too superior to the rank-and-file to be part of the rank-and-file?

[MaeScott]

107. He is more dem than the DLC blue dog Dems. nt

[pangaia]

145. But that's the point. He IS a democrat.

Hummm, maybe it is some of the members of the Democratic Party who are not democrats.

It all seems so muddled sometimes, discombobulated, semantically topsy turvy, that I must be sure to keep my mind focused and my brain unclouded by smog, and fog, and smoke, and blizzard type white-outs.

It is, oh so tiring...sometimes...

[NanceGreggs]

159. If he is a Democrat ...

... why does he identify himself as an Independent? I would think he's in a better position to know what he is than posters on a website.

[riversedge]

109. Pffff!!!

[jack_krass]

113. Don't like that? how about : Bernie is to Democrats what Chuck Norris is to Tae Kwan Doe

[chwaliszewski]

40. Oh, balderdash!

He could have just as easily ran as a Republican during the primaries but instead chose to run as a Democrat and why? Because he has progressive ideas and values, like the Republicans don't and the Democrats do sometimes.

[NanceGreggs]

46. When asked point-blank ...

... why he was running as a Democrat, Bernie said it was because he couldn't have gotten the media attention he needed if he didn't.

His words, not mine.

[chwaliszewski]

69. And what's your point?

He wouldn't stand a chance if he ran as an Independent because this country is primarily a two party system.

[NanceGreggs]

91. My point is that he said what he said.

Running as a Dem was not a matter of shared ideology or goals, but a means to an end.

At least he was honest about that.

[chwaliszewski]

108. Perhaps he doesn't trust the Democratic party for some reason...

All I know is he has an established voting record while in congress that heavily favors the Democrats. I can live with that.

[pangaia]

29. They will NEVER let go of it. It's like an intellectual Groundhog Day.

[murielm99]

37. It is not semantics.

It is actually being a member of the party. If he can't join the party, then I will not follow him. Neither will a large number of other Democrats. Bernie supporters are dividing the party by saying he is such a great Democrat when he will not even join us. He is not Democratic enough for me if he will not be one of us! Why is that such a hard concept for Bernie followers????

[musette_sf]

47. Agreed.

Sen Sanders is NOT a Democrat. If the Democratic Party was good enough for him to primary for POTUS, it's good enough for him to declare his affiliation. And he hasn't, and I'll bet he never will.

[Gore1FL]

119. I'm not that picky about who is in what club

I follow leadership that supports my ideals. That includes people like Sen Warren. That includes people like Sen. Sanders.

To say Bernie supporters are dividing the Democrats is ludicrous.

[murielm99]

177. Pelosi and Schumer are the leaders of the Democratic Party. n/t

[Gore1FL]

186. There are many leaders in the Democratic Party.

Pelosi and Schumer are examples. Bernie Sanders is a leader in the Democratic Caucus in the Senate.

http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-senate-leadership-521936

Additionally, there are other ways to be a leader besides simply having a title. He speaks to long-time Democratic Party principals that others are seemingly afraid to utter.

This discussion is one of semantics, as I originally stated. Why it is necessary to paint Sanders in any way of exclusion goes a long way in explaining why the Dems have failed to make meaningful long-term electoral gains in the post George W. Bush Era.

[murielm99]

187. Nonsense.

This is not about semantics. This is about leadership. Bernie is not a leader and he is not a Democrat. Grow up.

[Gore1FL]

205. I posted a link that demonstrates otherwise.

Please dispense with the personal attack. I'm 51 years old and well grown, thank you.

[pangaia]

146. " If he can't join the party, then I will not follow him."

"He is not Democratic enough for me if he will not be one of us!"

Oh, my, my!!

[murielm99]

176. He divided the party,

and you are laughing about it. Ha ha ha ha. No wonder the orange menace is the president elect. Bernie is a big part of why we lost. And that is no laughing matter.

[pangaia]

180. Bull.

[Amaril]

155. So much for that "big tent" thing........

.......where all who support democratic values are welcome.


Papers, please!

:::gasp::: You are registered as an............:::shudder:::.........independent?!?!?!

GTF out of "our" tent!

[murielm99]

175. Way to twist the facts.

Typical BOBer, though. If you want to be in, then join. Otherwise, don't bitch.

[Amaril]

189. Excuse me?

The only one twisting anything here is you.

Not that it's any of your business, but I have been a registered democrat since 1982 and I voted for Hillary in the GE. But, you know, thanks for putting your biases out there for everyone to see.

[murielm99]

193. Bye.

[NWCorona]

18. I've never played those games. I've always realized that Bernie was an independent who switched

to run as a Democratic. I also understand how that can be an issue for some but those who feel that way should be upset with the DNC and those who use it as a wedge, not with Bernie. He played by the rules as far as I can tell and was always straight forward in his reasoning why he ran as a Dem.

At this point tho, I think he can be called somewhat of a Democratic leader do to the unprecedented role he was given as the outreach chair.

[pangaia]

28. He IS a Democrat.

[dionysus]

114. he IS a better Democrat than most in the party. He's liberal and

votes with the Democrats, what he chooses to call himself is moot.

I'll take him anyday over pieces of shit like Lieberman and Manchin, who are "real" dems, on paper anyhow.

This isn't a sporting event. The fact you're spending sooo much energy hating on bernie and his peeps while we're faced with the crisis of trump becoming president, says a lot. It's pretty damn obsessive if you ask me.

[pangaia]

147. "Obsessive." That is the word I have been looking for.

I used 'attached," which is also true, in the Buddhist sense of attachment to something.

[brooklynboy49]

124. Labels

Who's the better Democrat -- Blanche Lincoln, Heidi Heitkamp, or Bernie Sanders? Your one trick pony tirades are getting old.

[alarimer]

126. Joe Manchin is a Democrat too.

So was Lieberman, until he lost the primary, after which establishment Dems could not wait to ditch the nominee (Ned Lamont) in favor of their pal, now Independent Joe Lieberman. As far as I am concerned, if it was good enough for Lieberman, it's good enough for Sanders.

Now, in my opinion, both Joe Manchin and Lieberman are not really Democrats because of their policies and inclinations away from progressive policies. The party can somehow accommodate DINOS like that (or Independents like Lieberman who did not reliably caucus with Democrats even when he was one), and yet not include independents like Sanders who has never caucused with anyone else, nor espoused any particularly conservative positions, unlike both Manchin and Lieberman (who would both have been Republicans in another era).

I hate this needless harping over labels. It is unproductive, and it is hostile. 35-40% of registered voters refuse to align with a party. That number is rising every year. If Democrats are serious about attracting new voters (or disaffected old ones), they must be open to new ideas and a return to policies that will attract such voters, which is what Sanders is trying to do. In the immediate short-term, the goal is to rally people to protect SS and Medicare from Republican depredations. To that, I say, all hands on deck, whatever the label.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

44. Definitely not. A Democrat is NOT, by definition, a member of the Democratic Party. In terms of Democratic PRINCIPLES, Bernie is a prime example of someone who has them in abundance.

[elleng]

50. YES, InAb!

[pangaia]

148. BAM!!!!!!!!!! Home run into the upper right field deck....

[kacekwl]

14. What, a human. n/t

[Fiendish Thingy]

26. Party before country?

Ok, got it.

[NanceGreggs]

33. Not at all.

It's a matter of standing with the party you used to launch a presidential bid, instead of using it for personal gain and walking away from it when it is no longer useful.

[pangaia]

149. He is, uh "standing with the party," or didn't you notice?

[NanceGreggs]

158. Good for him.

He's still not a Democrat - as he himself has stated. I don't know why there is any debate here. Bernie identifies himself as Independent, NOT a Democrat.

[pangaia]

27. Please, can you not just let go of it?

[murielm99]

38. Let go of WHAT?

Bernie is an opportunist, and some of us see that quite clearly.

[pangaia]

51. Some of us would disagree with that statement.

[murielm99]

61. Show me his tax returns.

Explain to me how he was able to buy another house. Tell me how he was NOT busy writing his book when he should have been out campaigning loudly and enthusiastically for Hillary (His support was lukewarm at best).

And what is up with this revolution crap? And where will Bernie be when the rest of of are out on the women's march, all over the country on Jan 21st? Is he planning on being there? I remember Howard Dean at the March for Women's Lives in 2003. Was Bernie there? If he is such a great leader, he should have been. Where is his track record? Show us the tons of legislation with his name on it.

[pangaia]

65. Look. You don't like Bernie, so we should just leave it there.

[dionysus]

116. No kidding. These guys clearly hate bernie more than trump.. bizarre, and sad.

Treating politics like a team sport with jerseys and logos, instead of growing up and realizing we need to stand together to beat trump and the republicans.

I guess it's more important to have a scapegoat to blame for getting beaten by a human combover.

Have you seen anyone saying they hate hillary "with the heat of 1000 suns" because she won the primary?

[pangaia]

123. I think it is also being 'attached' to something, as any Buddhist would understand.

Not disliking Bernie, that's ok.
But, not being able to understand the argument that he IS a democrat.

I said in another reply,
"The inner meaning, there are words and there are words.
In Mandarin the word we would write as "yu" can have many meanings, depending on the tone and/or the Chinese character."

I say, "He supports 'democratic principals."
They say, "But he is not a Democrat. He should join the party"

I say, "He supports 'democratic principals."
They say, "But he is not a Democrat. He should join the party"

I say, "He supports 'democratic principals."
They say, "But he is not a Democrat. He should join the party"

[DFW]

132. Except for lukewarm support for Hillary, he did NOT support Democratic principals

He did support many Democratic principles, but other than his tepid support for the top of our ticket, I am not aware of any principal Democrats he went to bat for in a big way.

[murielm99]

179. This is the Democratic Underground,

not the Bernie Underground. We should just leave it there.

[pangaia]

182. Brilliant comeback.

Really very good.
Now that I have finished my push-ups, I will get up off the floor,as you suggested, and do my Tai chi.

[pangaia]

156. Jesus, give me a break...

[murielm99]

178. It is time for you to get over yourself

and get up off the floor. Trump is no laughing matter.

[pangaia]

181. I'll get off the floor when I finish my pushups.

[Gothmog]

207. I would like to see these tax returns also

[4bucksagallon]

154. Not just some, but all of my friends as do I, would disagree with that statement.

Bernie is the one carrying the water and the message I want to hear.

[NanceGreggs]

83. I didn't post the OP ...

... claiming that Bernie, a non-Democrat, is a "Dem leader".

I also haven't seen you telling posters here who keep bringing up Bernie to "just let go of it" - despite the fact that he lost the nomination months ago.

[longship]

81. For Christ sakes Nance, give it up.

The "Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat" argument is inoperative.

Bernie has, for decades caucused with the Democratic Party. His loyalty is not in question!

Vermont has a rather long history with independent politicians. Nevertheless their allegiance is pretty damned clear. Remember Jim Jeffords?

By some people's criterion I would be an independent since my state, like Vermont, does not allow party voter registration. The same damned thing with open primaries. One cannot have a closed primary in a state without party voter registration. That's just fucking impossible, and no political party would agree to such a thing. But I demure.

Stop ringing that cockamamie "Bernie is not a Democrat" bell.

Love you madly, Nance, but it's not true, and you should know it.

[NanceGreggs]

85. Not true?

Is Bernie a member of the Democratic Party, or isn't he?

We both know he's not. So why do we have to keep pretending he kinda-sorta-maybe is?

He was an independent before his campaign for the nomination, and he returned to being an independent after he lost the nomination.

By his own words, he has declared unequivocally that he is NOT a Democrat. Why isn't his own word good enough?

[longship]

86. Q: How does become a member of the Democratic Party?

I was a Democratic Party officer in the most populace county in KS where we had, at that time, a majority. The only requirement of holding party office, or being a committee person, was that one was registered as a Democrat.

In many states, there is no party specific voter registration. All voters in those states are by default independents. This includes VT, my state MI, and many others.

Now Bernie chooses to call himself an independent, not uncommon in VT. However, he has never, ever caucused with any party other than the Democratic Party.

So you decide. Is the label more important than his actions?

God love ya Nance, but IMHO, screeching "Bernie is not a Democrat" is chicken shit.

[NanceGreggs]

89. By his own words ...

... Bernie is an independent, NOT a Democrat.

Again I am amazed that Bernie adherents refuse to believe what the man himself has said.

Bernie is not a Democrat - there, I said it again - and SO HAS BERNIE.

[longship]

92. Here's the deal.

I'll grant you that if you grant that Bernie has a decades-long record of caucusing with the Democratic Party.

Then, we are done with this.

BTW, I really like your posts, at least most of the time. In this case, you're not being helpful.

[NanceGreggs]

94. I've never disputed that he has a long record ...

... of caucusing with the Democratic Party. Ever. His record is there for all to see.

But the fact remains that he isn't a Democrat - and he has said so himself, repeatedly. I don't know why his supporters keep denying that fact - when that fact is also part of his record that is there for all to see.

[longship]

95. That label is fucking meaningless, and you know it

His actions are how I judge him.

Sorry Nance. I'm done here. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Hopefully amicably.

As always, my best to you. Looking forward to more Nance DU OPs.

[NanceGreggs]

96. Being a member of the Democratic Party ...

... is not a "meaningless label". It's a matter of declaring yourself to be a part of something that Bernie has chosen not to be a part of. And that's cool - so long as I don't have to hear that he actually "is" a part of it, he just doesn't want to say so.

So yes, we have to agree to disagree - amicably, of course!

Happy New Year to you and yours, longship!

[longship]

97. And to you, my friend.

on edit: Just keep posting OPs, and I'll be happy.

[Sparky 1]

111. This is the time for us to all come together!

Nancy, I think you're great and have done much that I've enjoyed here, but please . . . reading long bickering threads is a major turn-off (like I mean turning people away from DU, and from having hope at all), and we shouldn't be turning off anybody -- especially right now when so many on the left are feeling so defeated and tired of fighting.

With tRump as our new Russian pRes, it's more important than ever that we stop bickering and work together in harness to keep him from destroying this country.

Everything Bernie said was right on the money, Independent or not. Bless him.

Me:
Democrat
Bernie Delegate
Hillary voter

That's which side my bread is buttered on, and darned proud of it.

[Hortensis]

201. Trump's loyalty to his followers is also not in question.

Just ask them.

[panader0]

128. C,mon Nance--he ran for POTUS as a Democrat.

This seems to be the old primary anger surfacing again. He'll be on Dem committees.
He votes with Dems. He is the most progressive member of Congress. When will HRC supporters realize that he is a powerful force for our party.

[NWCorona]

20. Here's the interview

[JoeOtterbein]

142. Thanks for adding the clip!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Bernie was masterful, as usual. He just comes across as so genuine... knows what he believes and is not afraid to say it!

What a refreshing quality in a politician!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[musette_sf]

43. "I know who is MY Dem leader"

Who? Sen Sanders is not a Democrat.

[SaschaHM]

72. Right.

Bernie Sanders, by his own choice, is not a Democrat. Why some feel the need to foist the label on him is beyond me and certain posts in this thread are just sad. The guy is not a member of the Democratic Party. Period. And given how long he has chosen not to be one, I think it's clear that he doesn't want to be either. So let's respect that.

[Sparky 1]

110. Bernie was great -- as he's been since he began. Schumer was great -- hope he sticks to it.

[democrank]

58. I couldn't care less what initial Bernie has after his name.

What I care about is which issues he's willing to fight for.

We can continue fighting over this Bernie issue, or we can start working together to regain some House and Senate seats, some governorships, and maybe even make some headway in red states.

Anyone who looks at how much political ground Democrats have lost over recent years, should be looking at how we can be more, not less inclusive. Those who refuse to accept the help of Independent voters should practice being content with, for the most part, two blue coasts plus a handful of other blue states and a sea of red in between.

I welcome ANYONE who is willing to work with Democrats and who shares our values, and I'm excited about forming new partnerships to advance our goals.

[ecstatic]

68. Paraphrasing: Trump is off to a great start and hired some good people...

Huh?

[Sparky 1]

112. He said CHUCK (Schumer) is off to a good start and has brought . . .

. . . together some good people. Listen to it again, the whole sentence and the one after that.

But yeah, I thought he said "Trump" at first and did a big double-take, so I had to replay it.

[Snackshack]

74. Thank you.

It is amazing the man has voted with Dems for decades. He is/has been talking about core values the left has talked about forever. Healthcare, Education, Income gaps etc...and we are still squabbling about the letter in front/after his name.

If we don't get our act together the republicans are going steamroll us for next four years.

[flamingdem]

80. Exactly. Let's not be shortsighted now

[TreasonousBastard]

88. Bernie my ass! Bernie's been in congress since 1991 and suddenly...

this year he's hot? What's he done for the first 14 years?

Schumer, OTOH, whatever his faults (and there are oh, so many of them) was the real interview on that show. He's proven he can get legislation done and get out the vote for Dems. You may not like all the Dems he's gotten the vote out for, but he's the guy who got us as much as we've got.

Schumer is a go-for-the-throat street fighter and the smartest and meanest thing Trump and his Republicans have come up against in years.

The real story is not that Bernie's got Schumer on his side, but that Schumer is smart enough to know how to use Bernie.

Get a lot of popcorn, because this is going to be hell of a show.

[JoeOtterbein]

165. There is NO need to mention your rear-end, Bernie is doing what we need right NOW: Fighting!

He was great again today with his blow up of Trump's tweet promising to protect SS, Medicare etc. KEEP GOING BERNIE!!!!

[TreasonousBastard]

168. Bernie isn't doing squat. Schumer's using him and his adoring followers...

to get stuff done. Schumer's the fighter.

As I said, he hasn't done a damn thing but talk for 14 years. I seem to remember another Congressman who talked a good story but never did squat. Even ran for President with his fervent followers crying all the way.

[JoeOtterbein]

171. Thanks for not mentioning your rear-end again. BTW, Treason is never good and it is

not polite to call children of unmarried parents childishness names.

[R B Garr]

98. Why was he so giddy? He looked oddly gleeful

and was just abundantly giddy. I wonder what he was so happy about.

[Raine]

106. Both Bernie & Rachel were great! nt

[Joe941]

121. Oh man! If only Bernie was the nomination... Bernie 2020!

[TonyPDX]

136. Reminder: Do not bash Bernie Sanders

(bolding mine)

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

[klook]

139. "This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats"

&quot eg: Bernie Sanders)"

THANK YOU!

Democratic Underground Terms of Service

[vlakitti]

150. And in the meantime the Clintons,

Bill and Hillary, are planning to attend Trump's inauguration.

Which means, they think Trump has a mandate and Bernie thinks he hasn't.

I guess I know what side I prefer....

[disillusioned73]

151. Bernie,

still the man..

[link:|

[LittleGirl]

153. I don't care if Bernie

left the Democratic Party after the election. WHAT does IT matter?

It matters that he is STILL fighting. He could have rolled up his career and said fuck it after the shafting he got from the D Party.

Whatever. He bit his lip and moved on and supported Hillary. He is now fighting the fight when Hillary is Missing in Action. Where is SHE?

I'm going to keep fighting even if Hillary can't anymore. And what good does that do any of us if she quits because she lost.

Damn it, we are fighting a monster and I don't care what badge you wear, if you're on our side, you're IN.

PERIOD.
edit typo

[Bayard]

183. I quite agree, Girl

Bernie is still fighting the good fight that made us love him. I fail to understand why people continue to bash him. He's on our side, and he speaks truth--a precious commodity.

[LittleGirl]

184. I don't get it either

and welcome to DU. After Obama in '07-'08, Bernie got me fired up about how this country should be run.

[Gore1FL]

206. He's a convenient scapegoat.

The stages of grief are taking a while for some on DU than others. I believe the Bernie-bashing is product of that.

[Rex]

169. Glad to K&R this!

A true progressive!

[JoeOtterbein]

172. Thanks Rex!