General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShould everyone automatically be an organ donor unless they opt out?
That is what France has done. If you don't want to donate your organs, you must inform the government, otherwise you will possibly save others' lives after you perish.
Seems like a smart move, considering that there's a shortage of vital organs and so many people awaiting transplants. I wish the same legislation would be adopted here.
The new "opt-out" system is aimed at combating widespread organ shortages and long wait lists for transplants. Previously, French citizens who hadn't specified whether or not they wanted donate after dying could have their organs' fate left up to relatives. Now, the responsibility will fall on individuals, and next-of-kin will no longer have carte blanche veto power.
Those who object to donating their organs will have to sign up with a National Register of Refusal or make their intents known through written documents they leave with their families. They can also tell their relatives that they've chosen to opt out, and these family members would then have to provide signed documentations to that effect to doctors. About 150,000 people have already signed up for the refusal register, according to The Guardian.
Opt-out donation systems already exist in a number of places in Europe, including Spain, Austria, and Wales. While they can be controversial, there's at least some research suggesting that they improve donation rates in countries that adopt them.
http://fortune.com/2017/01/04/france-automatic-organ-donation/
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)That would be the right thing to do...
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)on what ground? Maybe Roe v. Wade, testing the limit to one's control over their own bodies, even if they were dead....think about it...
sarah FAILIN
(2,857 posts)I know some Jehovahs Witnesses that would rather die than take blood. I think it's more of an individual thing with organs. Gypsies are against organ donation because of their beliefs
UTUSN
(70,700 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)With computer-aided driving, we're going to have fewer organ donors in the future, which is a good thing for us drivers, but a bad thing for people in need of an organ.
doc03
(35,340 posts)hospital and Doctor Smith has a friend at the Country Club or the local billionaire needs a heart, are they going to do everything to save you?
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Was unconscious and on a respirator due to a major accident or something. Supposedly he could hear the doctors in the room dividing his organs up. When his wife got there he heard the them trying to convince her to pull the plug but she said no. He later ended up fully recovering.
I share your fear.
doc03
(35,340 posts)money would certainly do it if they had the opportunity.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)The UNOS program is run with a very tight fist.
Money dosen't work in these cases unless you can afford to be listed at many transplant centers across the country like Steve Jobs did. He got his liver this way. Organs are not for sale here in America.
doc03
(35,340 posts)Texasgal
(17,045 posts)He was able to be multi listed in several areas of the country. He still had to go through the same process like everyone else.
he just had the ability to be listed at several centers, some states transplant faster than others. There are alot of transplant patients that do this.
doc03
(35,340 posts)of getting one sooner, right? That sounds like buying your way to the front of the line to me. That's why rich Canadians come to the USA for elective surgery they don't have to wait behind the peasants for their turn.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)You cannot BUY an organ.
yes, if you have money you can increase your chances but there is no guarantees. You still have to follow the same protocol as everyone else.
Organs are not for sale in America. Period.
doc03
(35,340 posts)Texasgal
(17,045 posts)You cannot BUY an organ.
What is so hard for you to understand?
You STILL must go through the rigorous program. You must be tested. You must be matched. You must have a certain MELD score. You must have a matching blood type. You must not have other affecting factors. You increase your CHANCES if you are able to be multi-listed. Even with the ability to be multi-listed it does NOT guarantee an organ. Understand?
Money helps, yes... but you cannot BUY an organ. Period.
True Dough
(17,305 posts)While he/she is insisting there may be some favoritism based on wealth, he/she also insinuated such things have been known to happen already.
The opt-out program may not be impervious to isolated incidents of corruption (all systems have nefarious individuals seeking to line their pockets), it would still do much more widespread good for the broader population.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)You book a flight to India or the like. The American organ supply is super limited.
REP
(21,691 posts)Every now and then, someone gets caught, as UCLA did, selling organs to rich Saudis (not Americans - we still get screwed).
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)If it's true that's awful! I hope that something happened with this! Do you have a link you could share?
Ofcourse, the transplant system is not perfect... if it was my husband would be alive right now. The real pressing issue is that we need more donors.
REP
(21,691 posts)http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ucla-sued-in-body-parts-scandal/
http://archive.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2004/03/11/scandal_at_ucla_reveals_cadaver_trade_as_big_business/
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/17/local/me-irvine17
https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/organ-trafficking-no-myth-78079%3Famp%3D1?client=safari
Why I won't ask anyone for their kidney for my sake:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-dark-side-of-organ-donation/
I can't find the one specifically about either UCLA or UCI selling organs to members of the Saudi royal family offhand but I'll check my files.
It appears these stories are from 2003 and 2004. UNOS has changed since then.
I hope this never happens ever again! Awful.
Having more donors is really the key here. Wish more people would educate themselves on organ donation. I had no idea how it worked until I became a caregiver myself. It's amazing how much disinformation is out there.
Ms. Toad
(34,074 posts)Way too much fake news going on - and organ donation stories like this are prevalent fake stories promulgatee by the Terri Schaivo/right to life crew.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,074 posts)There was talk of saying their goodbyes - appropriate, given that he had suffered a massive stroke, was paralyzed, and nonresponsive with massive brain swelling.
But that's quite a bit different from doctors wanting to pull the plug and relatives stopping it.
The article is clear that no steps, beyond the possibility of organ donation, were taken to remove medical care.
The doctors were stupid to talk in his presence, as if he could not hear them.
That said, someone in his condition often doesn't survive, and it looked as if it was likely he would not. Discussing the possibiliity of organ donation among themselves - and it is not even inapproprate to broach the subject with his relatives to help them be prepared for what is always a difficult decision that must be made very quickly.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I'd have to get that Gofundme account up and running first too, so forget it I guess.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)caring for patients who aren't transplant recipients.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)Religious objections would be easily dealt with through the religions that will have forms and counseling available. It's the rest of the population that just doesn't feel right about organ donation that will make a fuss, and probably fall in line with religious zealots of the "I don't want it so nobody should have it" type.
Imagine clueless parents of a teenager killed in a car wreck, and they see the coolers taken out of the OR. If that's the first they heard of the law, there could be hell to pay.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)then that would be an obvious and simple decision.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)I've heard few statements on DU less consistent with American principles.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)Isn't that more important?
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)A lot of horrid things can happen under the rubric of "saving lives".
That's what the Iraq war was supposed to be about. That's what the Japanese internment camps were about. That's what "stop and frisk" is supposedly about.
No thank you to forcible religious registration. And no thank you to being forced to give your organs away if you don't have a religious excuse to say no that you approve of.
creeksneakers2
(7,473 posts)Texasgal
(17,045 posts)Plus, did you know that ONE organ donor can save up 8 lives? Aids patients still have plenty of things that can still be used. Corneas are one of the biggest!
Ms. Toad
(34,074 posts)There are a number of illnesses now where transplantees need organs, even if the person had an illness such as AIDS or hepatitis.
They won't transplant them into a person the organ could make sicker, but if a person with hepatitis needs a new liver - and someone with the same flavor of hepatitis with a better liver dies in a car accident, that liver can prolong the life of a person with hepatitis who might not otherwise get a new liver.
(BTW - they not only test, they review the medical record and discuss health matters that might not be apparent with relatives in a manner that permits disclosure of information that might not be disclosed because of shame.)
No system will ever be perfect, but it's a pretty good system.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)My husband just passed away waiting for a liver and kidney. He was so sick before he made it to #1 on list. His immune system was so weak he caught an infection and died.
My honey went through hell the last two years, so sick he stayed in bed for a full year. If we had more organs this wouldn't happen. No one should ever have to go through what he did, especially when you have a legitimate chance of life.
True Dough
(17,305 posts)My condolences. Your situation has been shared by far too many people. Hopefully an "opt-out" organ donation program can make a real dent in those numbers in the future!
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)Even though I've always been fully in favour of organ donations, I had nevertheless never got around to it (too squeamish, probably) until I renewed my license and was asked straight out if I wanted to be. I couldn't back out then, nor did I want to really, but I might never have done it on my own initiative.
People who feel strongly about not being a donor will have the option to opt out, but the burden of taking the initiative will be on them. This will save thousands and thousands of lives. Of course we should do this!
deek
(3,414 posts).
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)In fact when my liver is lifted out of my abdomen, it should fall apart into 7 prices, making transplants easy.
REP
(21,691 posts)If I had any organs that would be useful, I'd be somewhat hesitant - especially if I were poorer and less insured (and maybe O- instead of B -) in this country, because my uninsured/underinsured life wouldn't pay as much as a subsidized organ transplant.
As it is, I'm in kidney failure myself with the blood group with the longest wait time and I do not think people should be compelled to be donors.
Crunchy Frog
(26,587 posts)For that to happen, there would have to be genuine universal health care. Otherwise it's just going to be the rich harvesting the poor.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)and the transplant system is not perfect... but it's pretty evenly fair. We just need more donors. That's the bigger issue in my opinion.
avebury
(10,952 posts)Hekate
(90,705 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 6, 2017, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)
However, this is a funny country. Many would get their panties in a wad over it.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)whether you want to be a donor on your driver license, but that is not as good.
romanic
(2,841 posts)But with varying levels of health across the nation, it wouldn't really work out.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Skittles
(153,164 posts)tavernier
(12,389 posts)As long as it's easy enough to opt out for those who don't wish it.
I always think of Liam Neeson who says he thinks his wife would be pleased to know that her organs are keeping three people alive.
Igel
(35,317 posts)It says that first and foremost others decide for you, but you can veto it.
Retirement savings plans that are opt-out have people save a lot more money. Often they don't know about it until they're told, then they object. But not enough to go through the grief of opting out; and in some cases they can only change their benefits plan once a year.
I knew people who wanted opt-out student fees for voluntary things. Why? Because they knew that by the time most students realized they were paying for something they wouldn't benefit from--subsidizing others--it would be too late. They justified wanting opt-out fees in all sorts of ways--students would use whatever the program or service was if they paid, they really wanted to opt in but were too lazy or didn't know they could, it was for the common good. Mostly it was pushed by people who had an agenda, often an agenda that helped the program that they used or participated in--so they benefited from it psychologically or in practical terms.
Opt-out plays on lethargy and procrastination. It makes the decision for them ("you will do this" unless they actually take positive steps to stop it. I think of this as fleecing the sheep. Even if a lot of countries do it, it rather treats people as governmental possessions. Very un-English-common-law in thought. But very paternalistic.
Opt-in programs suffer from lethargy and procrastination. But it doesn't make a decision for them ("you can do this" and requires they actually take positive steps to participate. Sort of you do things with the consent of the participants, as opposed to relying on their inertia or lack of knowledge.
Relying on utilitarianism is a problem for organ donation. There's a country without a waiting list for kidneys. Why? Not because of negative check-off on some form, but because you can actually sell a kidney. It benefits the living donor and the recipient. It's Iran. https://www.statnews.com/2016/08/25/organ-donation-kidneys-iran/
True Dough
(17,305 posts)People often mean well, but they can get distracted and then forget. Signing up for organ donation suffers because of it.
Laffy Kat
(16,382 posts)True Dough
(17,305 posts)And I only have half a brain!
GReedDiamond
(5,313 posts)If I'm "existing" in a vegetative state, maybe that's my personal choice.
These days, I feel like I'm already half-way there, as it is.
Laffy Kat
(16,382 posts)They would ask you during your license reg. or something.
GReedDiamond
(5,313 posts)...just kidding.
I used to be a certified organ donor on my CA driver license, also, separately, a bigly blood platelets donor to the City of Hope.
But now I'm so fuckin old, who would want my damaged psychedelic-punk-rock riddled organs?
2naSalit
(86,636 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)My father's about halfway through his two year wait for a liver.
We tried to jump the line with live donation, even though it's very risky surgery for the donor and the results for the recipient are slightly worse (because you get half a liver from a live donor versus a whole one from a deceased donor and it plumbs in a little awkwardly) but it turns out I have a blood clotting disorder and I can't.
There's a pretty decent chance he's going to be one of those people who die waiting.
An opt-in system would save him, and a lot of other people.
True Dough
(17,305 posts)I hope fortunes change for you father real soon!
hibbing
(10,098 posts)I would like to thank you for posting this and I think the responses have been thoughtful and interesting to read, this is a great thread.
Peace
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)worries me a little on this regard. I mean really, how much is someone's organ worth to a wealthy person in dire need? I believe some could be persuaded to help a few souls out of the world if it meant a big reward for them. This may sound outrageous but how many doctors have gotten pretty fat from pharma kick backs and the like?
Maybe if so many weren't going into medicine to get rich in the US I would see it differently. But I see this trend only worsening. It's all about the money anymore. Fuck that.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)I say no because organ donation mostly benefits the rich as things are. The poor cannot afford the >$100,000 operations and the drugs to prevent rejection. I also worry about doctors potentially trying less hard to save people who are donors (see above story about the guy overhearing them talking about harvesting his organs)
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)If a person wants to opt out for personal/religious reasons that is fine.
But being an organ donor should be the default selection.
Raine
(30,540 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)No-one should ever have their organs used for donations against their expressed wishes.
I support an opt-out system, but I think it's worth stressing that opt-out really does mean opt-out, and is not just a euphemism for universal donation.
True Dough
(17,305 posts)A person's choice to opt out must be respected. I think the motivation for those who want to opt out, particularly on religious grounds, would be stronger than those of people who muse about opting-in and just never get around to it, therefore reversing the current set up would do more good.
Squinch
(50,950 posts)My body, my choice in all things.