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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Independent: Italian court rules MMR vaccine did trigger autism
The controversial row surroundings alleged links between the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism is set to be reignited following a court ruling in Italy.
Judges in Rimini, north-east Italy awarded the Bocca family Euros 174,000 (£140,000) after the Italian Health Ministry conceded the MMR vaccine caused autism in their nine-year-old son Valentino. Up to 100 similar cases are now being examined by Italian lawyers and experts suggest the case could lead to other families pursuing cases.
But the ruling in Italy is likely to re-open a debate which first made the headlines in Britain over a decade ago when the respected medical journal The Lancet published an article in 1998, making a connection between the triple vaccine and autism. Though the author's methods were later discredited, it was enough for many families to refuse their children the jab.
Valentino Bocca was 15 months old when he received an MMR jab in 2004. His parents said the change in him, after the jab, from a healthy boy to one who was in serious discomfort, was immediate.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/italian-court-reignites-mmr-vaccine-debate-after-award-over-child-with-autism-7858596.html
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proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)March 31, 2008
Julie Gerberding Admits on CNN that Vaccines can Trigger Autism
This weekend Julie Gerberding, the head of the CDC, appeared on Dr. Sanjay Gupta's show, House Call, and explained that vaccines can trigger autism in a vulnerable subset of children. This is the claim that parents like me have been making since at least the 80's, and have been dismissed and even mocked for making it.
But no one in the mainstream media seems to have noticed. Not even CNN. Not even Dr. Gupta who was sitting right in front of her.
<...>
September 9, 2010 2:14 PM
Family to Receive $1.5M+ in First-Ever Vaccine-Autism Court Award
By Sharyl Attkisson
The first court award in a vaccine-autism claim is a big one.
<...>
Hannah was described as normal, happy and precocious in her first 18 months.
Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor's visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.
Afterward, her health declined rapidly. She developed high fevers, stopped eating, didn't respond when spoken to, began showing signs of autism, and began having screaming fits. In 2002, Hannah's parents filed an autism claim in federal vaccine court. Five years later, the government settled the case before trial and had it sealed. It's taken more than two years for both sides to agree on how much Hannah will be compensated for her injuries.
In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court.
<...>
James Murdoch is still supported by GlaxoSmithKline
By John Stone
James Murdoch, the beleagured News Corporation executive, has received a ringing endorsement from MMR manufacturer, GlaxoSmithKline according to Reuters news agency on Friday. GSK who appointed him to their board in February 2009 insist Murdoch has made “a strong contribution” to the group and received share payments worth $158,000 in 2010. Murdoch was appointed to the board of the pharmaceutical manufacturer with a brief to “review…external issues that might have the potential for serious impact upon the group's business and reputation."
Within a fortnight of his appointment News International had published at least 5 articles attacking MMR researcher Andrew Wakefield’s integrity (one , two , three , four and five ).
The accusations, while flawed, were devastating to Wakefield’s reputation. According to the Sunday Times and its journalist, Brian Deer, Wakefield was singly guilty of fabricating the data in the Lancet paper of 1998 although none of his 12 co-authors have ever repudiated it and one of them, histopathologist, Susan Davies subsequently wrote to British Medical Journal rebutting Deer’s interpretation of her evidence before the General Medical Council. Deer’s allegations were also based on his own inexpert interpretation of GP records which were never available to the authors of the paper. The allegations which were re-cycled by British Medical Journal were rebutted by Wakefield in his book Callous Disregard, and frequently in articles published on Age of Autism (AofA The Big Lie , AofA Time To Revisit Deer's Claims , AofA Part 2 Time To Revisit Deer's Claims ). In contrast to normal academic journal policy BMJ have adopted a legalistic defence of its allegations and (more here). Furthermore, they were forced to admit under pressure that they had undisclosed conflicts with MMR manufacturers Merck and GSK.
The Sunday Times campaign against Wakefield began in 2003 when section editor Paul Nuki approached Deer saying that he needed "something big" on "MMR" . Nuki was the son of Prof George Nuki who sat on the Committee on Safety on Medicines when MMR/Pluserix were first introduced in the late 1980s. Shortly afterwards Deer interviewed parent litigants under a false name. Unknown to Sunday Times readers Deer also pursued his own official complaints against Wakefield and colleagues and came to an arrangement with General Medical Council lawyers that he would not be named in the case, leaving him free to continue reporting as if an independent journalist . Deer’s obtaining and use of confidential data remains to be investigated.
<...>
John Stone is UK Editor for Age of Autism.
Posted by Age of Autism at July 17, 2011 at 6:22 PM in Dr. Andrew Wakefield, John Stone, Vaccine Safety
Revisiting James Murdoch, Brian Deer, The Sunday Times, GlaxoSmithKline and the Attack on Andrew Wakefield
July 19, 2011
Autism and What the Experts are Saying, Part One: NPR's Tom Ashbrook Interviews Geri Dawson and Max Wiznitzer
By Anne Dachel
June 04, 2012 at 5:45 AM
Lengthy transcripts and commentary.
Also see comment: Posted by: cmo | June 04, 2012 at 11:52 AM
Autism and What the Experts are Saying, Part Two: Dawson, Zahorodny, and Amaral
By Anne Dachel
June 04, 2012 at 5:45 AM
If you’re like me, you’re sick to death of reporters telling you that all the science shows no link between vaccines and autism. Members of the press don’t hesitate to remind the public on a daily basis that only misguided parents believe vaccinations can cause autism. It’s usually a one sentence dismissal in a news report--more evidence that no one really wants to look into a controversy that could implicate the government and the medical community in an unprecedented health care scandal.
There are some huge chinks in the armor of the no link claim, however. I’m referring to the public acknowledgement by some top medical experts that yes, vaccinations do sometimes cause children to become autistic.
There are more and more independent doctors out there saying there is a link, but I’m talking about doctors who are often cited in news stories denying any causal relationship, yet who will also admit that, yes, sometimes vaccines are responsible.
<...>
In April, 2011, Dr. David Amaral, Director of Research in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, UC Davis MIND Institute, was interviewed for PBS by Robert MacNeil.
He was asked if vaccines can cause autism and he said this:
“And so, you know, I think it probably is a waste of effort at this time to try and understand vaccines as a major culprit for, or a major cause of, autism. It's not to say, however, that there isn't a small subset of children who may be particularly vulnerable to vaccines.
“And in their case, having the vaccines, or particular vaccines, particularly in certain kinds of situations -- if the child was ill, if the child had a precondition, like a mitochondrial defect. Vaccinations for those children actually may be the environmental factor that tipped them over the edge of autism. And I think it is incredibly important, still, to try and figure out what, if any, vulnerabilities, in a small subset of children, might make them at risk for having certain vaccinations."
It was the late Dr. Bernadine Healy, former head of the National Institutes of Health, who was on CBS News in 2008 calling for such a study. She said,
<...>
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)
Sid
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 26, 2012, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)
Dr. Julie Gerberding, former head of the CDC, currently head of the Merck's $5 billion vaccines businessDr. Geraldine Dawson, chief science officer for the advocacy group Autism Speaks
Dr. Max Wiznitzer, pediatric neurologist at Rainbow Babies and Children’s Hospital in Cleveland
Dr. Walter Zahorodny, assistant professor of pediatrics at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey in Newark
Dr. David Amaral, Director of Research in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, UC Davis MIND Institute
Dr. Bernadine Healy was an American physician, cardiologist, academic and a former head of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). She was a professor of medicine at Johns Hopkins University, professor and dean of the College of Medicine and Public Health at the Ohio State University, and served as president of the American Red Cross. She was health editor and columnist for U.S. News & World Report. She was a well-known commentator in the media on health issues.[1]
These are all, unquestionably, among the establishment figures in the field of autism research. Their efforts at disclosure are commendable and notable, in part, for being almost discreet enough to be unnoticed EXCEPT BY THE PARENTS THEY ARE PARTIALLY CORROBORATING AND AGREEING WITH.
All that head-banging can't be very good for you.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20080903/autism-measles-vaccine-no-link
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1718951/pdf/v085p00271.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116011/
There is not ONE single research study that shows a link between vaccines and autism, save for the one discredited, withdrawn Wakefield paper. There are dozens that have failed to find any such link.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Read Martha Herbert's new book about autism (she 'strongly encourages vaccination. That said, we need more data on how children who have autism and perhaps other known or unseen vulnerabilities respond to the current vaccination protocol,' so you should have absolutely no remotely valid objection):
This book is based on real stories of children and adults with autism who didn't follow the textbooks. They got better - some dramatically so. Although I changed their names and was vague on details to protect their privacy, I was meticulous in sticking to the facts of their stories and letting their experiences direct how I explained the science.
Textbooks do not include the possibility that people with autism get this much better. Neither does a lot of scientific research.
In that sense, you may say that I have gotten ahead of the science. Not everyone will be able to get such fabulous results for themselves or their child. But I have confidence that science and medicine will make these advances possible to many more people going forward.
As I have dug into current research to write this book, I have been stunned by how much science there is to support the approaches parents are taking to get their kids better. Karen Weintraub, an experienced science journalist who has shared this journey with me, has been equally amazed. Every day our internet alerts and Listservs overflow with research publications and news stories asbout every area we discuss, and their findings are largely resonant with what we are explaining in this book.
<...>
Why are my ideas about autism so different from many other people's? I think there are three answers. One, as I'll describe in the first chapter, patients in my pediatric neurology practice at Harvard didn't fit what I had been taught. Two, my research yielded insights I could never have expected. And three, I lucked out in terms of timing. My rethinking of autism coincided with an explosion of science on so many different levels.
This book has been informed by entirely new fields with names like epigenetics, systems biology, gut microbioogy, nutrigenomics, and metabolomics, as well as new revelations in neurology, gastroenterology, environmental science and immunology. We have new tools that allow us to screen tens of thousands of genes in less time than it used to take us to find one. We can now examine single neurons or watch how clumps of them interact. We can explore how the balance of microbes in people's guts changes their health and their brains. New technologies and new research have uncovered previously hidden interconnections, allowing us to frame autism in a way that simply wasn't possible even five years ago.
But this is fundamentally not a science book. It is a book of success stories that make sense biologically.
I believe these triumphs have huge implications for medicine and science and the way we think about autism - and perhaps for much more. I believe it is so dramatic that it calls for a revolution in how we think and what we do.
MARTHA HERBERT, MD, PhD
[img]
[/img]
After years of treating patients and analyzing scientific data, prominent Harvard researcher and clinician Dr. Martha Herbert offers a revolutionary new view of autism and a transformative strategy for dealing with it.
Autism is not a hardwired impairment programmed into a child’s genes and destined to remain fixed forever, as we’re often told. Instead, it is the result of a cascade of events, many seemingly minor: perhaps a genetic mutation, some toxic exposures, a stressful birth, a vitamin deficiency, and a series of infections. And while other doctors may dismiss your child’s physical symptoms—the diarrhea, anxiety, sensory overload, sleeplessness, immune challenges, and seizures—as coincidental or irrelevant, Dr. Herbert sees them as vital clues to what the underlying problems are, and how to help. In The Autism Revolution, she teaches you how to approach autism as a collection of problems that can be overcome—and talents that can be developed. Each success you achieve gives your child more room to become healthy and to thrive.
Drawing from the newest research, technologies, and insights, as well as inspiring case studies of both children and adults, Dr. Herbert guides you toward restoring health and resiliency in your loved one with autism. Her specific recommendations aim to provide optimal nutrition, reduce toxic exposures, shore up the immune system, reduce stress, and open the door to learning and creativity—all by understanding and truly meeting your child’s needs. As thousands of families who have cobbled together these solutions themselves already know, this program can have dramatic benefits—for your child with autism, and for you, your whole family, and your next baby as well.
A paradigm-changing book that offers hope and healing for the millions of families who have autism in their lives, The Autism Revolution shows that there’s plenty you can do every day to give someone you love the best possible gift: a life lived to the fullest potential.
Martha Herbert, MD, PhD, is an assistant professor of neurology at Harvard Medical School and a pediatric neurologist at Massachusetts General Hospital, where she is the director of the TRANSCEND Research Program. She sits on the Scientific Advisory Committee for Autism Speaks.
Karen Weintraub, MA, is an award-winning journalist and freelance health writer for outlets like The Boston Globe, USA Today, and the BBC. A past recipient of a prestigious Knight Center for Science Journalism fellowship, she also teaches journalism at the Harvard Extension School and Boston University.
For more info visit www.AutismRevolution.org
snooper2
(30,151 posts)proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)I guess those Italian courts are a sham. Lucky for US in America, we have real justice.
1monster
(11,012 posts)I just heard the former CDC spokesperson, in the video clip, say that vaccines in conjunction with a mitochondrial disorder had resulted in autism-like symptoms. I heard that more than once!
If that is true, then all children should be tested for this disorder BEFORE being vaccinated. Period. Stop.
Further, mercury is not a necessary additive to vaccines to make them work correctly. Mercury is used as a preservative for the vaccines. Perhaps it is time to rethink that aspect of the vaccines. After all, mercury is not good for the human body in any form. Why are we injecting it into the bodies of our most vulnerable?
As the stepmother of a diagnosed autistic, the mother of a son who shows autistic traits, and the sister-in-law of a woman whom I strongly suspect is autistic, I am aware of the probable genetic link. However, as someone who is regularly in several different schools, I am also aware that the autistic population of the schools is abnormally higher than it was ten years ago.
The possiblity of a genetic predispositon for autism that is triggered by the vaccines when it might otherwise have remained dormant is not so unreasonable as to be laughed out of consideration.
The whole idea in searching for an answer is not to refuse to consider possiblities, but to keep an open mind toward the possibilites.
I do not understand the passion of those who so passionately advacate against a possibility as "a steaming pile ..." when the answers are not in yet. It is nearly impossible to prove a negative, except by proving the positive. So far, the proofs of what causes autism are seriously lacking. Until the answers are difinitively observed and proved, everything is speculation, including your passionate aquittal of vaccines.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)that the mercury used in vaccines (Thermisol) has any health risk to humans (unlike ethyl mercury). Hydrogen is a major component of rocket fuel and is highly explosive, except when its combined with oxygen for water....
Next, thermisol has not been in any vaccine for over a decade. That's not a huge issue for the US / Europe (increases vaccine cost by probably 20% or so), but in more rural areas with less refrigeration it can be a major issue (much of Africa, Indian Subcontinent, etc.).
The mitochondiral disorder you mention is correct and did happen -- look up Hanna Polling. Although vaccines in her case were the proximate (immediate) factor in her case, it would have happened at some point anyway unless she lived in a bubble. Any activation of her immune system (common cold, ear infection), would have had the same unfortunate results.
The vaccine court in the US is similar to worker's compensation -- the burden of proof is much lower than in a regular court. All they have to prove is that vaccines were the proximate cause. In a regular court Hanna wouldn't have been entitled to damages since the outcome was inevitable vaccine or not.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Find it at another website if you prefer. Or read the transcript.
TRANSCRIPT: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0803/29/hcsg.01.html (Link from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/cnn-cdc-and-some-truth_b_94040.html )
If you're intrigued, watch the annotated video by G Taylor. Pay particular attention to the scientifically supported information about mitochondrial disorders, including prevalence. For 2012 updates, see Martha Herbert's recent publication (post #15). Perhaps your tempered approach will help bridge the enormous gulf evidenced on this thread.
No corresponding video on CNN website apparent to me:
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-04-01/living/transcript.wed_1_lynn-gaston-parents-of-autistic-children-autistic-sons?_s=PM:LIVING
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/blogs/paging.dr.gupta/archive/2008_03_01_archive.html
Other sources for CNN's video:
On March 29, 2008, CDC chief Julie Gerberding admitted that vaccines trigger autism in a subset of the population with mitochondrial disorders on CNN's House Call with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. (right)
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)The need for preservatives, by the way, is not primarily an issue of refrigeration. It is related to puncturing the seal, which permits contaminants on the seal to be dragged into the serum, followed by a period during which contaminants could grow in the remaining serum before they are needed for the second (or later) patient. Because of that risk, the United States Code of Federal Regulations (the CFR) requires that preservative be added to multi-dose vials of certain vaccines, but not single-dose vials. So if parents want to avoid thimerosol in flu shots for their children, they need to verify that their physician is using a single dose vial (although one of single dose manufacturers uses a trace of thimerosol). Check the chart to be certain, if it matters to you.
Tumbulu
(6,291 posts)about how crazy this is reveal their lack of understanding of science.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)And thimerosal was totally removed from all childhood vaccines in 2001.
I don't really understand the passion of those who utterly reject all of the available scientific and medical evidence and the results of dozens of studies which have sought to establish any connection whatever between vaccination and autism and failed entirely.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Thimerosal is still contained in some childhood vaccines. (Source & explanation)
That said, I am not personally concerned about thimerosal causing autism. What I do care about is the use of inaccurate facts to shut down discussion and to imply that anyone who suggests that there is still room for growth in our understanding of these issues is passionate, but scientifically illiterate. Aside from anything else, most vaccines include adjuvants - and the best scientific minds do not fully understand the mechanisms by which these adjuvants alter immune responses (Search this page for "we do not know"
. And since more and more children are developing auto-immune disorders, the interaction between our immune systems and adjuvants is an area ripe for further research to try to avoid harming this vulnerable population. ( Exemplary concerns expressed by scientists )
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Dozens of studies attempting to establish any link whatever between vaccination and autism; not one that's found such a link. That's not "inaccurate", it's a fact. (Facts are not inaccurate anyway, because if they were...they wouldn't be facts, would they?)
The basic problem seems to be scientific ignorance and a willingness to mistake correlation for causation. The fact that overt symptoms of developmental disorders usually manifest at approximately the same age at which children are vaccinated is not in itself evidence of a link (and indeed no such link has been found in studies tracking autism prevalence in vaccinated and unvaccinated cohorts).
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)is inaccurate statement, offered to shut down discussion. I'll give you that it isn't a fact 
The only reason to assert that thimerosal is no longer in vaccines is to tell the speaker that, on the really, really, really, off chance that there is something to their theory, the "cause" isn't present any more. End of discussion. Except that it isn't true.
I have never personally argued that thimerosal causes anything - my beef is with stating things which are inaccurate to shut down discussion (or stating the "fact" carelessly, and then digging in when the "fact" is proven false - as happened the last time I pointed out that some childhood vaccines do still contain thimerosal).
But for the sake of discussion - you are correct that correlation does not equal causation. It is, however, one of the standard starting points for scientific inquiry. Not everyone who expresses a concern about a correlation is mistaking it for causation - but may be instead be suggesting that a particular correlation should be further explored to see if causation can be established. And not all correlations are first noticed by the scientific community. I noticed a correlation between my daughter's poultry consumption and her disease activity, and because the correlation was very strong became pretty convinced of a particular disease pathway (genetic predisposition + environmental trigger). Several years after I was convinced, the national support group for disease adopted that explanation for the disease pathway. (I'm not claiming to have had anything to do with their change - just noting that a correlation I (as a lay person) observed in a one person "study" is now accepted as causation.)
The fact that no study has established a link between autism and vaccination does not necessarily mean there is no link. GWAS studies are in their infancy (but progressing very quickly). One of the things these studies are establishing is that many diseases once thought to be homogeneous are actually heterogeneous - at times nearly custom diseases even though the manifestation is similar enough that up until now they have been thought to be a single uniform disease. I don't know if that is where autism is trending - but I do know that these disease variations are now theorized to be the cause failures of multiple drug trials for my daughter's illness. Results which looked extremely promising turned out not only to be not promising, but actually harmful - in part because the population being studied was thought to all have the same disease so the results of the small study would be scalable to a larger study (or at least not dramatically different). Because there was a different disease variation mixture in the smaller group studies than in the ones they scaled to, the results were not as predicted - they were in fact the opposite of what the smaller study predicted and at least one trial was halted because it was deemed to be unethical to continue. What is now being done, though, is to go back to those smaller group studies and to type the disease by variant to see if there is a smaller population for whom the drugs actually are useful (rather than harmful).
So, in the case of autism, where similar GWAS studies are being undertaken, we may find similar things. The studies which have been unable to establish a link autism and vaccination are equivalent to the larger drug trials done on my daughter's disease - and are almost certainly applicable to the population of people with autism as a whole, but there may well be variants of autism which are too small to make a statistically significant difference in the large population studies. And, just like my daughter's illness, we may well need to return to this question to look at subgroups of people with autism to see whether, in populations with a particular disease variation, vaccination (or something in it, like the adjuvants most vaccines contain) is the (or one of the) environmental triggers for manifestation of autism.
I don't think that means you toss vaccinations out of the window - but I do think autism is one of many diseases, most of them immune related, which may have environmental triggers, which suggest that we rethink the balance between rote vaccination for everyone and (until exome sequencing is readily available and cheap enough to be worth the investment) systematic screening for indicators of special susceptibility - as well as taking a look at our overall scheme to see whether a different implementation would strike a better balance between societal needs and the likelihood of risk to vulnerable populations (based on what we are now learning about how autoimmune disorders work).
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)has NEVER contained thimerosal. That is a fact; bringing up the issue of thimerosal in this instance looks like trying to conflate the issue by introducing things that have no relevance whatever.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)I responded to your categorical statement that, "thimerosal was totally removed from all childhood vaccines in 2001." That statement is false. There is no reason to make a statement broader than the facts support, other than an attempt to shut off debate. After all, if there is no childhood exposure, then that particular discussion about vaccines is pointless. As I said, what I care about with respect to the specific debate about thimerosal is the use of inaccurate facts to shut down discussion and to imply that anyone who suggests that there is still room for growth in our understanding of these issues is passionate, but scientifically illiterate.
If you really care about looking at things scientifically,and not just shutting down conversation, you might actually want to read my post. We are learning more about the etiology of autoimmune disorders, including that diseases which have looked homogeneous may actually a heterogenous, with many variants. Some variants may impact populations which are small enough that the consequences of exposure to environmental triggers, such as vaccines, may not be statistically significant as part of the larger studies. That means that the studies may be broadly true - even for most people autism, but there may be subpopulations for which the studies fail. Until now (and not yet with autism, from anything I can quickly tell) we have not had the tools to distinguish the variants. But more and more exome or full genome sequencing is done in the relevant populations, those original studies may need to be refined and repeated for variant subpopulations - and the results may be quite different than our current broad understanding.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Do try to keep up.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)the post to which you responded did not limit the discussion to the MMR vaccine (your last justification for why the false information you provided wasn't relevant).
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)I thought they stopped using mercury
(thimerosil (spelling) a long time ago.
What I want to know is why the explosion of autism cases, the word didn't even exist when I went to school and the problems seemed to start to occur during the '80s. Did they change the vaccination formula or did they start experimenting on out kids???
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Many huge and very expensive scientific studies have completely discredited this claim. Scientific studies are the only way to evaluate such claims. No scientific studies have in any way given credence to the original claim - none.
You can always find anecdotal evidence or someone with a fancy looking title to support any position you want. Anecdotal evidence does not equal actual evidence.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Here's a recent peer-reviewed publication by prestigious researchers citing 3 papers co-authored by Dr. AJ Wakefield out of 95 total references, and from among Wakefield's "over 140 original scientific articles, book chapters, and invited scientific commentaries."
Published online 2011 September 16. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0024585
PMCID: PMC3174969.
Impaired Carbohydrate Digestion and Transport and Mucosal Dysbiosis in the Intestines of Children with Autism and Gastrointestinal Disturbances
Brent L. Williams,1 Mady Hornig,1 Timothy Buie,2 Margaret L. Bauman,3 Myunghee Cho Paik,4 Ivan Wick,1 Ashlee Bennett,1 Omar Jabado,1 David L. Hirschberg,1 and W. Ian Lipkin1,*
1Center for Infection and Immunity, Columbia University, New York, New York, United States of America
2Division of Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America
3Department of Neurology, Harvard Medical School and Departments of Neurology and Pediatrics and Learning and Developmental Disabilities Evaluation and Rehabilitation Services (LADDERS), Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America
4Department of Biostatistics, Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health, New York, New York, United States of America
FOOTNOTES:
3. Wakefield AJ, Anthony A, Murch SH, Thomson M, Montgomery SM, et al. Enterocolitis in children with developmental disorders. Am J Gastroenterol. 2000;95:2285–2295.[PubMed]
4. Wakefield AJ, Ashwood P, Limb K, Anthony A. The significance of ileo-colonic lymphoid nodular hyperplasia in children with autistic spectrum disorder. Eur J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2005;17:827–836.[PubMed]
9. Ashwood P, Anthony A, Torrente F, Wakefield AJ. Spontaneous mucosal lymphocyte cytokine profiles in children with autism and gastrointestinal symptoms: mucosal immune activation and reduced counter regulatory interleukin-10. J Clin Immunol. 2004;24:664–673.[PubMed]
The Wakefield Rehabilitation?
By Kent Heckenlively, Esq.
October 11, 2011
No responsible historian quotes Unabomber Ted Kaczynski for a proper understanding of the Industrial Revolution and the struggles of a technological age.
So why is uber-scientist Dr. W. Ian Lipkin of Columbia University quoting with approval the work of Dr. Andrew Wakefield? Isn't Wakefield supposed to the author of our common mass delusion that vaccines are linked to autism?
<...>
Can somebody please explain all of this to me?
Isn't Dr. Wakefield supposed to be some super-villain, leading all of us gullible parents to believe that vaccines aren't quite as safe as sugar water? Didn't he make up fake diseases? So, after being stripped of his license to practice medicine in the U. K., it turns out there really is something called autistic entercolitis and ileo-colonic lymphoid nodular hyperplasia in children with autism. At least Dr. W. Ian Lipkin seems to think so.
Has anybody told Trine Tsouderous of the Chicago Tribune about this? I'm sure she'll want to get right to work getting Dr. W. Ian Lipkin fired from Columbia University.
<...>
Translation for those of you who are not Columbia University Professors - There's a lot that's wrong in the digestive system of kids with autism! Maybe it's affecting their brain and behavior! Let's investigate!
After more than ten years of loose stools from my daughter, I don't need to be a Columbia University professor to know that.
But if a big shot scientist like Dr. W. Ian Lipkin is quoting Dr. Andrew Wakefield as a reliable source, maybe the rest of the world will soon be doing the same thing.
And that would be righting one of our new century's greatest injustices.
Kent Heckenlively is a Contributing Editor to Age of Autism
Here's the case that the Lancet paper should be reinstated following the successful appeal by Professor John Walker-Smith in March.
The Lancet should Reinstate the Andrew Wakefield Paper
By Martin Hewitt
Posted by Age of Autism at April 23, 2012
In the wake of the High Court judgment on Professor John Walker-Smith’s appeal against the decision of the General Medical Council (the UK regulatory body for doctors) to delicense him, what should now happen to the retracted paper he co-authored with Dr Andrew Wakefield? The decision lies with The Lancet editor, Dr Richard Horton. But what are the grounds for reinstating the paper as a properly conducted clinical investigation into 12 children with autism and bowel disease admitted to the paediatric gastroenterology department at the Royal Free Hospital (RFH) London in the mid-1990s? The paper was the focus of the GMC’s trial of the three senior authors on charges of serious professional misconduct which led to the delicensing of Walker-Smith and Wakefield.
Background
Few academic articles have been dogged by the controversy attending the now retracted Lancet Paper ‘Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children’ since its publication in February 1998. (Another link to retracted paper here: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2897%2911096-0/fulltext#article_upsell .) In seeking to avert controversy The Lancet published an editorial accompanying the paper to warn against drawing the wrong conclusions that the paper had established that the MMR caused autism and bowel disease. The paper, which went through several cautious redrafts, said it "did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described”, adding that “Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue”.
On publication the RFH took the exceptional step of holding a press conference to launch the paper in the hope of preventing the media and public from concluding that the MMR was unsafe and to avert a collapse in MMR take-up. When Dr Andrew Wakefield the lead writer was asked by the press if he would personally support the three-in-one MMR vaccine, he responded by advising parents to choose the single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines spaced out at intervals. Whilst his comments were seized on by the press as evidence that the MMR was unsafe and by the medical establishment as highly irresponsible, his answer accorded with official government policy. At the time the government vaccination schedule offered the choice between MMR and the three separate vaccines, in accord with the Department of Health's express policy when the MMR was launched in 1988.
<...>
http://www.vaccinesafetyfirst.com/pdf/LANCET%20pdf.pdf
‘Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children’ published in the Lancet, February 1998.
<...>
The Mitting Judgment and the Lancet paper
Having digested much of the hearing's 149 days of submissions and evidence and many other related papers, and heard Queens Counsels for Walker-Smith and the GMC, on 7 March J Mitting quashed all charges against the Professor.
Inevitably the thorough and irrevocable negation of the charges against Walker-Smith and of the GMC’s legal case, based on its deep misunderstanding of The Lancet paper, raises an important question of the status of the Wakefield et al paper, which is still listed as retracted, to which we now turn.
There is no doubt that the Mitting judgment goes to the heart of the way the GMC exercised its regulatory powers in this case. He outrightly criticises the "universal inadequacies" and "inadequate and superficial reasoning" of the disciplinary panel's approach, and recognised the personal suffering the GMC had inflicted on Walker-Smith. "It would be a misfortune if this were to happen again" he concluded on delivering his judgment.
More specifically, the Mitting judgment rejects the two fundamental grounds the GMC gave for finding the three doctors guilty of serious professional misconduct and so undermines The Lancet‘s argument for retraction based on these grounds; out go the claims that the patients were not consecutively referred to the department of paediatric gastroenterology and that the investigations did not have ethics committee approval.
<...>
Jon Edwards Video Trailer: A Story of Hope and Autism
Posted April 30, 2012
By John Stone, UK Editor for Age of Autism
Following the exoneration of John Walker-Smith in the High Court in March I wrote to the Lancet’s editor, Richard Horton, pleading with him to re-instate the Wakefield 1998 paper in the interests of children in the UK being denied medical investigation and treatment following the witch-hunt against Wakefield and colleagues both in the Sunday Times, and latterly British Medical Journal. Horton replied lamely:
“My Best, Richard Horton”
(Email, 15 March 2012, 10.07pm)
To which I fired back:
And answer came there none: Dr Horton may or may not be “horrified”, but so far he is not prepared to do anything about it. As Martin Hewitt pointed out here last week there is not now the faintest scientific or legal reason not to re-instate the paper. But unfortunately this not only a matter of historical fairness. As the case of Jon Edwards – highlighted in a new film from Autism Team – makes abundantly clear, until our political class and medical establishment address their bad consciences nothing for these children is going to happen in the United Kingdom.
<...>
http://www.ageofautism.com/john-stone-uk/
http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/
Response to Ghost of Huey Long (Original post)
Luminous Animal This message was self-deleted by its author.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)of whom have a personal stake in the issue and have vetted ALL the claims and sources involved with breathtaking rigor, as anyone with any degree of objectivity can observe.
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)as well as a professional one. It's about saving lives and preventing diseases such as these. The fact of the matter is courts can and do error, as this one did. The good news is it will be brought up on appeal. The bad news is many children will not receive the MMR vaccine due to stories like this and fraudulent research being perpetuated and may get unnecessarily sick or die.
I'm glad you acknowledged my post #8, and hopefully read into the issue yourself. I look forward to any response you might have under post #8.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Accept the challenge to personally check it out.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)(reposted from your other, locked thread):
There is no scientific or medical evidence supporting any link whatever between vaccinations and autism. Countless studies have failed to establish such a link. The author of the initial paper positing such a link was found guilty of serious professional misconduct and research fraud and struck off the medical register in the UK. The decisions of an Italian court do not change this basic FACT. See below:
Clear evidence of falsification of data should now close the door on this damaging vaccine scare
“Science is at once the most questioning and . . . sceptical of activities and also the most trusting,” said Arnold Relman, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, in 1989. “It is intensely sceptical about the possibility of error, but totally trusting about the possibility of fraud.”1 Never has this been truer than of the 1998 Lancet paper that implied a link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and a “new syndrome” of autism and bowel disease.
Authored by Andrew Wakefield and 12 others, the paper’s scientific limitations were clear when it appeared in 1998.2 3 As the ensuing vaccine scare took off, critics quickly pointed out that the paper was a small case series with no controls, linked three common conditions, and relied on parental recall and beliefs.4 Over the following decade, epidemiological studies consistently found no evidence of a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.5 6 7 8 By the time the paper was finally retracted 12 years later,9 after forensic dissection at the General Medical Council’s (GMC) longest ever fitness to practise hearing,10 few people could deny that it was fatally flawed both scientifically and ethically. But it has taken the diligent scepticism of one man, standing outside medicine and science, to show that the paper was in fact an elaborate fraud.
In a series of articles starting this week, and seven years after first looking into the MMR scare, journalist Brian Deer now shows the extent of Wakefield’s fraud and how it was perpetrated. Drawing on interviews, documents, and data made public at the GMC hearings, Deer shows how Wakefield altered numerous facts about the patients’ medical histories in order to support his claim to have identified a new syndrome; how his institution, the Royal Free Hospital and Medical School in London, supported him as he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain; and how key players failed to investigate thoroughly in the public interest when Deer first raised his concerns.11
http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452
(snip)
Mr 11, an American engineer, looked again at the paper: a five page case series of 11 boys and one girl, aged between 3 and 9 years. Nine children, it said, had diagnoses of “regressive” autism, and all but one were reported with “non-specific colitis.” The “new syndrome” brought these together, linking brain and bowel diseases. His son was the penultimate case.
Running his finger across the paper’s tables, over coffee in London, Mr 11 seemed reassured by his anonymised son’s age and other details. But then he pointed at table 2—headed “neuropsychiatric diagnosis”—and for a second time objected.
“That’s not true.”
Child 11 was among the eight whose parents apparently blamed MMR. The interval between his vaccination and the first “behavioural symptom” was reported as 1 week. This symptom was said to have appeared at age 15 months. But his father, whom I had tracked down, said this was wrong.
“From the information you provided me on our son, who I was shocked to hear had been included in their published study,” he wrote to me, after we met again in California, “the data clearly appeared to be distorted.”
But child 11’s case must have proved a disappointment. Records show his behavioural symptoms started too soon. “His developmental milestones were normal until 13 months of age,” notes the discharge summary. “In the period 13-18 months he developed slow speech patterns and repetitive hand movements. Over this period his parents remarked on his slow gradual deterioration.”
That put the first symptom two months earlier than reported in the Lancet, and a month before the boy received the MMR vaccination. And this was not the only anomaly to catch the father’s eye. What the paper reported as a “behavioural symptom” was noted in the records as a chest infection.
http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347.full
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)Because the anti-vaccination lunacy lacks any substantial support for their various tropes about vaccines causing any number of things, including autism, it’s important to be perfectly clear:
The Cochrane Reviews state that MMR vaccine does not cause autism.
There is no scientific or medical controversy about this conclusion.
Medical and scientific experts agree.
It lead to a public health crisis based on a fraud.
Well constructed epidemiological studies also showed no link between MMR vaccine and autism in Denmark, England, Japan, Japan, Japan, Poland, and the United States.
Mr. Andy Wakefield‘s paper alleging a connection between MMR and autism has been retracted by the Lancet.
Despite claims that Wakefield’s findings were reproduced, not one single peer-reviewed paper ever supported the Wakefield’s claims.
Numerous studies actually invalidate his claim.
The Autism Omnibus trials has rejected all three test cases and subsequent appeals claiming that vaccines cause autism.
Much more at link, including hyperlinks to even more
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/manufacturing-controversy-mmr-vaccine/
Link between MMR Vaccines and Autism conclusively broken
There were reservations against the paper’s scientific validity even when it appeared in 1998. Critics pointed that the paper’s research was based on a small sample with no control, linked three common conditions and relied on parent’s biased testimony. The next decade a lot of ensuing studies found no link between the two. By the time the paper was retracted in 2001, there was no doubt in the minds of the scientific community that it was fatally flawed. The General Medical Council held a detailed and long hearing before giving their verdict of no confidence in the study.
Since then, there have been numerous big studies -- including one with 530,000 children and one with 1.8 million children -- and no link was found. As recently as in 2008, a Columbia University study found "no connection" between the vaccine and autism in kids. "Our results are inconsistent with a causal role for MMR vaccine as a trigger or exacerbator of either G.I. difficulties or autism," said one of the Columbia researchers, Mady Hornig, at the time.
....
The alleged link between the vaccinations and autism also took away a great deal of money, attention and energy from research into the actual cause of autism.
The effect of Wakefield’s study was so huge that parents started keeping away from the MMR and a significant rise in Measles and Mumps outbreaks have been regularly reported in the US and Europe. In fact, California in 2010 broke a 55-year-old record for the number of cases of whooping cough reports msnbc.com . That's directly related to parents who haven’t vaccinated their children.
Wakefield found a ready audience in people looking for something to blame for autism.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/98531/20110107/link-between-mmr-vaccines-and-autism-conclusively-broken.htm
Researcher Behind Debunked Autism-Vaccine Study Stood To Make Millions
In the report published Tuesday, journalist Brian Deer reveals that Andrew Wakefield held a patent for “a ‘safer’ single measles shot.”
Meanwhile, Deer reports that Wakefield was in talks with investors to develop a business that “was to be launched off the back of the vaccine scare, diagnosing a purported — and still unsubstantiated — ‘new syndrome.’” A business plan for the venture indicates that by year three, diagnostic kits alone were anticipated to garner $43 million per year.
...
Deer reports this week that Wakefield was asked by his superiors at the University College London in 1999 to replicate his study using a larger sampling of 150 children after they expressed concerns about a “serious conflict of interest” given his business plans.
But Wakefield did not pursue further study on the matter and ultimately left the institution, with his boss saying, “we paid him to go away.”
http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2011/01/12/wakefield-make-millions/11910/
This outlandish claim has been debunked time and time again. It is disheartening to find a judge that goes rogue ignoring all evidence to the contrary. As an RN, I find these allegations against MMR vaccine to be not only bogus without any scientific evidence to back them up, but also to be very disgusting and disturbing to say the least. Measles, Mumps and Rubella can all be very dangerous diseases in young children and pregnant women. In some cases it can even cause death. There is no link between Autism and MMR vaccine.
Here is some general information for anyone interested on the MMR Vaccine and Measles, Mumps, and Rubella.
The mumps virus causes fever, headache, and swollen glands. It can also lead to deafness, meningitis, swollen testicles or ovaries, and death in some cases.
Rubella, also known as the German measles, is generally a mild disease. However, it can cause serious birth defects in the child of a woman who becomes infected while pregnant.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002026.htm
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)and yet they have increasing cases of autism, too.
I'm wondering if there isn't some environmental toxin at work. I'd like to see environmental studies that looked at documented cases of severe autism and traced EVERYTHING in the children's environments: where they lived, what their parents' daily lives were like (exposure to toxic chemicals?), what and how they ate, etc.
As for diagnoses of Asperger's, we had plenty of Asperger's kids when I was growing up, now that I look back. We didn't classify them as autistic. We just thought of them as "weird kids."
Has the addition of Asperger's to the autism spectrum created a false "increase" in the number of reported cases?
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)An environmental factor is at work. Either prenatally or later.
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)is supporting genetic factors, in addition to environmental. What the research does not support is vaccines being the cause of Autism.
This study may interest you:
Genetic Heritability and Shared Environmental Factors Among Twin Pairs With Autism
The addition of Asperger's to the autism spectrum could very well be a factor in the increase in the number of reported cases of autism. Asperger's is much less severe than many cases of autism. It is what is considered to be a high functioning form of autism. The symptoms should not be downplayed and can have significant emotional and financial strains on families of those affected. However medically speaking, it is true that when compared to other autism on the spectrum, these children do not have significant delays or difficulties in language or cognitive development.
Drale
(7,932 posts)we are pumping so much crap into the water and air that it was only a matter of time before we starting seeing something like this happen. I would not blink an eye if I found out that corporations were pushing the myth that vaccines were linked to autism to keep the fact that its really all the polution that is causing it.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)like plastic baby bottles (they used to be glass) or soy formulas or anything else that didn't exist before the incidence increased. That's why we need epidemiological studies of every detail of these children's lives.
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Are you pushing to lose your posting privileges, too?
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)I thought that a court case in Italy was important. Not getting how a court case is bullshit or conspiracy theory.
(So I am just reading another thread about election fraud, and you are the poster trying to shut everyone up about election fraud too. Am I to understand you are a Democrat, but you are so concerned about looking like a conspiracy theorist, you are here on this site to help the party by shutting down discussions?)
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)But never mind that, some court in Italy has some undisclosed new data. Meh.
Response to GarroHorus (Reply #10)
Post removed
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)This particular brand of woo is scaring parents into not vaccinating their kids, resulting in re-emergence of those diseases.
People don't have much living memory of diseases like polio or whooping cough - not enough to understand that there's a very good reason why vaccines were invented - because those diseases SUCK! Polio kills and maims countless people every year, needlessly because if we put our minds to it, we could eradicate polio forever.
But nooooooo, because we have these unscientific morons who keep spreading memes of nonsense, which cause kids to go unvaccinated, and as a result, here in the US we have reemergence of measles, whooping cough and other diseases, which sicken and kill kids needlessly.
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)By all means, vaccinate! Those diseases are miserable and the fever I had during the measles was so horrible I ended up in the hospital.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)destroyed some of my hearing, aside from both diseases being miserable. I don't think I was ever so sick in my entire childhood as when I had measles.
Plus, the sister of one of my school classmates DIED from complications of measles. Not in the nineteenth century, in 1962, i.e. the Mad Men era. I wish they'd do a storyline about that.
And polio? I recall realizing as a college student, seeing a fellow student on crutches because of polio, that everyone in the U.S. who was dealing with the after-effects of polio was my age or older, thanks to vaccines. Do we really want to go back to the days when children died or were disabled for life because of polio?
Sometimes young parents can be really stupid.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)People are not upset with the idea of vaccination. WE want the vaccines to be safe.
Ignoring the side effects is not going to make vaccines safer. WE want them to recognize the problems and fix it.
If you take a look at the drugs they have been pushing, Big Pharma has been putting out an inordinate amount of drugs with devastating consequences. Most are proven harmful after millions have been taking them. Oops.
We do not have a functioning FDA, most of our organizations have been corrupted. Corporations hire 'scientists' to write papers that say whatever they want.
If you look at the big picture, who would have an interest in lying here?
Parents who have experienced the devastating effects of vaccinations on their children?
Or Big Pharma who has been pumping this crap in everyone as we have watched the rates of autism climb sky high in the last two decades?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)No mercury compounds. A rise in autism anyway.
Have you considered that there might be environmental factors at work?
I'm no fan of Big Pharma, but I don't think that EVERYTHING they do is evil. Thanks to non-drowsy antihistamines, I don't have to choose between spending half of every year with my eyes and nose running and unable to breathe at night or nodding off during the day.
The scientific consensus is that the vaccines are safe, and one Italian court case (decided on the basis of bought and paid for witnesses?) throws the whole thing open to question?
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)I can understand that Big Pharma doesn't want to face this reality...but why would anyone defend them?
Why do you think parents would make this up?
If you care at all, you can read stories all over the net.
Parents are not stupid. They are witnessing the direct effects. They get the vaccine, symptoms occur immediately.
What do you want parents to do?
Just shut up about it to protect Big Pharma?
What if it happened to you or someone you know?
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)
tridim
(45,358 posts)I used to have terrible allergies until I got mine. I can breathe again.
1monster
(11,012 posts)and the mercury levels in fish are very high. The FDA has set guidelines about how often to eat tuna for example. (See the chart @ http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/tuna.asp )
Perhaps the trigger for the Japanese children is the diet?
The problem I see in the arguments that pop up regularly is that the vaccines are blamed. But it is not the vaccines themselves that are in question. It is the mercury preservative content of the vaccines that is suspect.
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Vaccines ARE safe. The idiocy of the anti-vac movement will KILL PEOPLE.
That's why anti-vaxxers get such a vocal reaction to their IDIOCY.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)"That's why anti-vaxxers get such a vocal reaction to their IDIOCY"
Right, you care so passionately which is why you want to shut down discussion. Why don't you just ignore it and allow people who are interested to think for themselves?
What is your interest here?
Just like you care so passionately about election fraud that you tell everyone in every thread that it is all a farce, based on no information whatsoever, just going with your gut?
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Plain and simple, that will be what happens.
We wiped out small pox due to vaccines.
Your conspiracy theories about big pharma will do nothing but kill people.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)How can we look at anything that is wrong, and fix it! if we are convinced we are always right?
Whatever has been done, whatever we are doing now....is right, so just shut up about it.
Who does this sound like?
Accusing people of being out to kill?
That is a bit absurd. Also republican overblown idiocy. Death Panels anyone?
How can we move forward as a society, when we recognize problems we don't want to deal with, we just ignore them?
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)spreading that crap is tanamount to murder.
There are NO ingredients in ANY vaccine with a link to autism. The science proves you wrong and that crap was debunked long ago.
There is no problem, no alien visitors, no illuminati, and no black helicopters.
Kali
(55,014 posts)At Tue Jun 26, 2012, 09:27 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Full debunked conspiracy theory nonsense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=858554
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
"Tanamount to murder" to post an actual news article of an actual ruling in an Italian court? Then going further to include "no alien visitors, no illuminati, and no black helicopters." The thread was unlocked, but these are personal attacks. Science refutes the anti-vaccine claims. Personal attacks, including the charge of murder are not necessary and rude, insensitive and over-the-top.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 26, 2012, 09:36 AM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: sorry post is correct - stop promoting anti-vaccine bullshit and try to learn some freaking science. one judge in Italy does not trump the real science
squeaking this article into GD to promote woo IS tantamount to promoting the deaths of many
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't think the reference to murder was a personal attack. Frankly,this whole thread belongs in the woo forum.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)figure out why this crap is allowed in GD.
Kali
(55,014 posts)this first got posted with a shitty source and was locked - there was discussion in the host forum about it, and the bottom line is even though we all know the motivation for posting this crap article is to get the subject up for "discussion" (in other words: so these assholes can promote their anti-science, anti-vax agenda), the article DID come from a real news source, so it meets the gd SoP.
up to the community to debunk not the hosts - real articles ARE allowed. not if the OP just started talking woo or CT crap like they are in the thread it could have been locked but hosts aren't in charge of the thread, just the OP meeting topic guidelines.
Kali
(55,014 posts)ignorance and belief in nonsense, inability to comprehend science are biggies too
hiding ignorance with claims of "wah big pharm just wants to shut me up" is bullshit. promoting ignorant, dangerous fantasy is irresponsible and immoral.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Cha-CHING!
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)n/t
florida evans
(4 posts)I mean, you have your "trusty" vaxxes and I don't get microchipped and/or infected with various dis-eases!
Win-win! 
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)And, what do vaxxes have to do with being microchipped or being injected with diseases?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)What precisely is preventing you from becoming infected with/by various diseases? 
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)in the next life. It seems that the poster was infected with PPR disease.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Free riders, as long as there aren't too many, get all the benefits from the virus not being able to colonize the herd. It makes sense at the individual level. The right doesn't like free rider problems much as the solution is government intervention.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)Because of something I contracted as a child, that could have been prevented with a vaccination at birth.
Fuck the anti vaccination crowd.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Clearly autism is not a result of vaccination, but of a Satanic cult. I'm surprised they missed this.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts) hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Mignini was involved with two famous cases - the Monster of Florence and the Amanda Knox case. he attributed both cases to satanic cults.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)"Part of the reality based community" and then post anti-scientific woo-woo shit.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Plenty of idiots on both sides of the fence LOL....
Actually, if you follow the political circle far enough, go far enough left it eventually closes the loop and starts touching the libertarian nuts (Some of the occupy folks are closer to Alex Jones than they know 
)
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)It shows succinctly that those who spread anti-vax nonsense are complicit in the deaths of children.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)THANKS A LOT!!!!!
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)Who pays the corporate media to run ads all day long?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)of course that's because there would be fewer kids in general living long enough for a diagnosis . . .
Which also means vaccines cause an increase in cancer.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)There use to be one or two kids in every school, now there are two or three children in every class.
This is a huge part of why the schools are having difficulty.
Teachers have gotten less support, not more, and they are attempting to manage several children with learning/behavioral disorders while teaching the entire class who wants to move forward.
I have attempted to help teachers, however when you have two or three kids goofing off, it is extremely distracting and that is what gets the attention of the teachers.
The numbers are rising..are people denying that?
What are the causes then? Why can't we examine the fact that many parents have witnessed the beginnings of autism immediately after receiving vaccines?
What kind of people would just keep on doing what we are doing at any cost, even after we see these numbers rising?
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Post hoc ergo propter hoc doesn't stop being broken reasoning just because there's a kid present.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)since then it has been on the steady increase as more and more physicians and parents become aware of it.
If we had no word or diagnosis for cancer for all of history (people just randomly died for some reason) then suddenly in 2010 we figured out what it was, how it worked and how to diagnose it there would be a huge increase in the rate of cancers in the following 2 years. Right? Does that prove that something is causing new cancers or does it prove that they were there all along but we just didn't notice it?
Why can't we examine the fact that many parents have witnessed the beginnings of autism immediately after receiving vaccines?
This has been examined. By actual scientists not moms with a gut feeling. And with only one exception (that was later shown to be entirely fraudulent) they all showed that there is no correlation between vaccines and autism.
A word to the wise: if your expert witness on this is a woman whose main skill is looking good naked back in the 90s perhaps you should reconsider.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)It is not just because of diagnosis.
Did you read this court case. It happened directly afterward. It is not the parent's imagination.
What would you, or anyone who continues to defend this crap in our vaccines, do if it were your child?
What if it were your sister's child?
What would you do if you witnessed the very sudden very real consequences of a vaccine, would just just stay silent because people on a message board told you to shut up?
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Anti-Vaxxers are IDIOTS!!!
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)their kids will and the kids who come in contact with those kids will be bearing the brunt of their stupidity.
If it were just the people who thought vaccines are filled with demons who were suffering I'd say go for it. You're all adults, live with the consequences of your actions. Then kick back and watch darwin do his magic.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)name calling- good one!
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)Believe your bullshit and let the results be the deaths of thousands because you cannot accept science, just like any Republican.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)and so far it is all the anti-vaccers have provided.
It falls to either "I have this gut feeling" or an appeal to emotion (what if it were your sister's child?).
Well to answer that last question: that would be sad, but it would have no bearing on the cause.
It's like arguing that epilepsy is caused by demons and then claiming A) you feel epilepsy cases are increasing because you noticed a few and people don't go to church anymore and B) what if it happened to you?!?! Pretty scary huh? Well then you must agree with the fact that it is caused by demonic possession if you are worried about it.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)That is nothing. That is not an argument. You call that scientific? That is all you have?
And you are attacking me for pointing out the numbers with Autism are on the rise. My anecdotal argument is backed by facts and statistics.
your argument is based on ?? Corporate manufactured propaganda?? We are expected to believe Autism is not on the rise because the media and Big Pharma says so?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Strawman.
No one ever denied that.
It is however mostly due to differences in diagnosis. It's been steadily increasing since the 1960s when it was first classified as a separate disorder. This should surprise no one. Look it up. It wasn't classified until the 1960s. Hard to diagnose something that doesn't have a name or defined symptoms. Not so? You realize this is a fact right? Mocking it doesn't change that.
And if you claim a link with vaccines then wouldn't this imply that the rate of childhood vaccines has been increasing since the 1960s coinciding with the rates of new autism cases?
In fact we've been doing this for centuries. And if anything childhood vaccinations are on the decline here (due to insane fearmongering). And yet autism continues, unabated.
Corporate manufactured propaganda?? We are expected to believe Autism is not on the rise because the media and Big Pharma says so?
Whoa, I think you've stumbled on something new here. Implying someone is a paid shill because they don't agree with you on the internet. I don't think anyone has ever done that before.
Prove a link between autism and vaccinations. Not simply that it's been increasing. Cancer has been on the rise too. So . . . vaccines cause cancer? Or are you buying in to the corporate propaganda that there is no link? (this is the entirety of your argument).
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)directly afterwards. It is impossible that it won't happen. Such cases are only anecdotal and they prove absolutely nothing.
Only science can prove the link. No link has ever been found, despite wasting millions of dollars trying to satisfy the anti-vax crowd. The anti-vax crowd will never be satisfied no matter how much evidence is given that proves they are wrong.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)and were immediately hit by a bus.
Now I'm not saying vaccines cause you to get run over by buses. I'm just stating the facts. Car accidents have been on the rise. People get vaccines. You do the math. Don't let the corporations and "scientists" lie to you.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)clinical trials. This court is an ass.
sakabatou
(42,157 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)...centuries of established precedent, then we should demand the same of the anti-vaccine crowd.
Either show us the science that establishes a link or find some other pet project to weigh in on. To use fear and suspicion to counter scientific reasoning is anti-intellectualism at its finest.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Because they can find dozens of moms willing to testify to their gut feelings that little Johnny was just fine until the second he got a vaccine.
And some of them posed in playboy. Pretty hard to refute that evidence.
randome
(34,845 posts)A few isolated cases of suspicion and -as you point out- attention-grabbing headlines- are not enough to overthrow the scientific method. 
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Some of those anecdotes look mighty good nekkid.
At the very least they should count double.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)That is incredibly dumb but you all just keep using it over and over.
If you truly have not witnessed the rise in Autism with your own eyes, in your own communities, where the hell have you been hiding?
But I don't need anecdotal evidence, statistics prove Autism is on the rise.
You all have nothing to support your 'theories' but each other.
randome
(34,845 posts)The established science needs to be refuted with facts, not fear.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Next month's headlines: Grape Jelly Causes Autism? Science says no. But this playmate says yes. The debate rages on.
Ghost of Huey Long
(322 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)alright but if you want me to believe jelly is causing autism you're going to need a spokeswoman at least as hot as Jenny Mcarthy in her prime. At the bare minimum.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)until the 1960s?
Kanner's reuse of autism led to decades of confused terminology like infantile schizophrenia, and child psychiatry's focus on maternal deprivation led to misconceptions of autism as an infant's response to "refrigerator mothers". Starting in the late 1960s autism was established as a separate syndrome by demonstrating that it is lifelong, distinguishing it from mental retardation and schizophrenia and from other developmental disorders, and demonstrating the benefits of involving parents in active programs of therapy.[178] As late as the mid-1970s there was little evidence of a genetic role in autism; now it is thought to be one of the most heritable of all psychiatric conditions.[179] Although the rise of parent organizations and the destigmatization of childhood ASD have deeply affected how we view ASD,[174] parents continue to feel social stigma in situations where their autistic children's behaviors are perceived negatively by others,[180] and many primary care physicians and medical specialists still express some beliefs consistent with outdated autism research.[181]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism
GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)
randome
(34,845 posts)But they prove a point, don't they?
CleanLucre
(284 posts)reducing the issue to hating "anti vaxxers" -- why not make sure vaccines are safe and make changes when needed?>
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)vaccines are safe. They have been used and tested for centuries.
The hostility comes from the realization that people at the behest of a former playmate are working to reintroduce infectious diseases that could actually (no exaggeration) kill children.
You'll find that people are far less tolerant of silly superstitions when it leads to children dying.
It's like the difference between performing a baptism on a child (something many might consider silly) and those cultists who perform exorcisms that occasionally kill the kid (lot's of outrage).
Indulge your anti-scientific needs in a way that doesn't lead to dead kids. Maybe cover them in crystals or magnets to ward off bad vibes.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)about how vaccines work. Most vaccines contain adjuvants, for example. We know how some of them work - we don't know how others work. (2nd paragraph in the Adjuvant section, next to last paragraph.
We are also just in the early stages of identifying specific variants of a number of autoimmune disorders via GWAS studies; diseases we previously thought were a single uniform disease but we are finding are really multiple strains with different genetic predispositions. The most prevalent theory is that a genetic predisposition plus an environmental trigger may be the pathway of disease manifestation. Adjuvants, or the bacteria or virus itself, may provide that environmental trigger (See, for example: Exemplary concerns expressed by scientists. There may be a small subpopulation of what we previously thought was a single uniform population that is, in fact, susceptible to vacinations providing the environmental trigger. Depending on how large the variant population group is, their susceptibility may not show up in the larger studies because the subgroup is too small to have a statistically significant impact.
What is being learned doesn't mean tossing vaccines out the window, but it does provide scientific support for having some rational conversations about the balance between the general need for widespread vaccination and consideration for how we identify and protect children who may be particularly susceptible to the possibility of the vaccination (or more likely the adjuvant) acting as a trigger for the manifestation of one or more immune disorders.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)However, quantities of mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, human serum albumin, antibiotics, and yeast proteins in vaccines have not been found to be harmful in humans or experimental animals.
TLR ligands however are too dangerous for use in human vaccines (because of the inflammatory responses they invoke), and for many vaccines adjuvants are unnecessary, because the killed organisms themselves have intrinsic adjuvant activity - that is, they themselves have features that activate innate immunity. This is the case for influenza virus in current vaccine preparations. Where adjuvant is necessary, either because intrinsic activity is too low, or in vaccines based on purified components that have lost their adjuvanticity in purification, the only adjuvant currently in use in human vaccines is alum - a general term for salts of aluminium, which have been in use in human vaccines since early in the 20th century and that invoke good antibody responses. How does alum work? We do not know. New adjuvants in preparation for use in influenza vaccines include oil-inwater emulsions; we do not know how they work either.
So only one type has been in wide use for over a century. And that's what explains the vast explosion of autism in only the last few decades. Despite those additives being tested and having been shown to cause nothing.
Saying "we don't know exactly how X works" is vastly different from "X causes Y!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)I deliberately chose articles which support the broad conclusion you reach to demonstrate from a source you are likely to accept that despite having been used for decades, we really have some significant gaps in our knowledge, specifically we do not know how some of the adjuvants work. If I had cited a source for that proposition that reached a different general conclusion, you would have rejected it as "woo-woo."
The recent research into autoimmune disorders suggests that most are caused by one or more genetic predispositions combined with one or more triggers. My concerns with vaccines are primarily in connection with autoimmune disorders other than autism - and one specific concern I have is that adjuvants, which are deliberately added to vaccines with the intent of altering the immune response, may be one of the environmental triggers.
Researchers have observed a correlation between adjuvants some autoimmune disorders, and are doing further research to see what that correlation might mean. That is the second set of links in my last post.
As to why the explosion of autism in the last few decades - why the explosion of all sorts of immune diseases? One of my daughter's diseases is statistically a disease of 40 year old men - yet there is a rapidly increasing subpopulation of children manifesting the disease between age 2-21, unheard of just a few years ago. The childhood incidence of her second autoimmune disease increased 1100% starting in the '90s, based on a 60 year study that was just completed. I don't have an answer as to why - but that dramatic increase in many immune disorders is another reason we ought not just sit on our laurels, smug that we know everything about the safety of vaccines with respect to a rapidly growing population which is vulnerable to environmental triggers.
NickB79
(19,253 posts)Science does not seem to be a strong suit in Italy these days
tova
(28 posts)Just because you have no experience with a child having an extreme reaction to vaccines does not mean those who who claim their child has had a very bad reaction are all idiots. I am not anti-vaccination but from my direct experience I can say that some children cannot handle them. My son got a very high fever both times after he had the MMR/DTP vaccines, in part because of an allergy to eggs (vaccines are made with eggs). His behavior changed dramatically after the first fever and he began showing signs of autism. He ended up in the ER after his second shot because his fever was extremely high and because his leg swelled to three times the normal girth at the injection site. He is now autistic. This was not something that occurred gradually. He had a sudden personality/temperament change immediately after that first shot, demonstrating severe emotional lability, inability to deal with transitions, head banging, sensory sensitivity, difficulty controlling behavior, etc.
Unless you have daily experience with autistic children as a parent, you have no basis for expressing an opinion on this matter.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Can individuals with egg allergy receive MMR vaccine?
In the past it was believed that people who were allergic to eggs would be at risk of an allergic reaction from the vaccine because the vaccine is grown in tissue from chick embryos. However, recent studies have shown that this is not the case. Therefore, MMR may be given to egg-allergic individuals without prior testing or use of special precautions.
DTAP is on the same list.
tova
(28 posts)Yet my son did have a reaction to the shots that caused permament harm. My adopted daughter had no reaction to the shots. I agree statistically that the shots overall help more then harm the population but someway needs to be found to distinguish between those whom it is safe to give the shots and those who should not be given them.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Which your PCP should have been aware of. My point was simply egg allergies for childhood vaccines are not a factor.
pscot
(21,024 posts)Teh stoopid is going to burn down the house.