Ordinary Americans carried out inhumane acts for Trump

[ehrnst]

A week ago, men and women went to work at airports around the United States as they always do. They showered, got dressed, ate breakfast, perhaps dropped off their kids at school. Then they reported to their jobs as federal government employees, where, according to news reports, one of them handcuffed a 5-year-old child, separated him from his mother and detained him alone for several hours at Dulles airport.

At least one other federal employee at Dulles reportedly detained a woman who was traveling with her two children, both U.S. citizens, for 20 hours without food. A relative says the mother was handcuffed (even when she went to the bathroom) and threatened with deportation to Somalia.

At Kennedy Airport, still other federal employees detained and handcuffed a 65-year-old woman traveling from Qatar to visit her son, who is a U.S. citizen and serviceman stationed at Fort Bragg, N.C. The woman was held for more than 33 hours, according to the New York Times, and denied use of a wheelchair.

The men and women who work for the federal government completed these and other tasks and then returned to their families, where perhaps they had dinner and read stories to their children before bedtime.

...............................................................................................
When we worry and wonder about authoritarian regimes that inflict cruelty on civilians, we often imagine tyrannical despots unilaterally advancing their sinister agendas. But no would-be autocrat can act alone. As a practical matter, he needs subordinates willing to carry out orders.

The men and women of TSA who reportedly handcuffed small children and the elderly, separated a child from his mother and held others without food for 20 hours at airports, are undoubtedly "ordinary" people. Authoritarians do not need special monsters to carry out their cruel orders; they can issue orders to otherwise unexceptional people who will carry them out dutifully.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-airport-inhumanity-20170206-story.html

[yardwork]

1. Thanks for posting.

[wishstar]

2. We are seeing how it was possible for Hitler regime to gain power/commit atrocities

What a nightmare for America

[dawg]

3. We do what we're told.

It's one of the many flaws in our wiring.

[Hortensis]

5. NOT ALL OF US! No! Authoritarians are wired by nature

to choose leaders to follow and then trust their leaders' "consciences" guide them instead of their own. "I was just following orders." Most conservatives have some degree of authoritarianism in them, but it is far stronger in hard-core religious and social conservatives (the world's big troublemakers) than economic conservatives or more moderate ones of all types.

Notably, some from the more radical or extreme left wing also seek authoritarian leaders and "just follow orders" when they find them. No accident that 2016's left-wing populist movement coalesced around a leader with a bit of an authoritarian tone (though it formed first around Elizabeth Warren, a moderate progressive economic conservative who lacked it).

Liberals, who make up most of the Democratic Party here in the U.S., are the world's anti-authoritarians. Generally speaking, we just don't respond that way, in fact are usually repelled and worried by it.

We know these things because after the Holocaust--committed by white Christians in an advanced European nation and supported by similar "good people" in others--researchers set out to learn how it could happen. More recently, researchers have also discovered that there are strong genetic components to our personalities, as well as the subsequent environmental influences on our basic natures.

It's important to know this, to be able to identify and understand both problems and solutions. People like Bannon and the Kochs do. They did not concentrate their take-over efforts on the right by accident. And they did not corrupt most of the right into an attack dog focused on blocking interference from the left by accident.

[NewJeffCT]

9. Even most liberals in those situations

would follow orders. They may be the first to look into disobeying the orders, or researching if their orders were unlawful, but I doubt every person performing these acts was a jack-booted right winger.

[Victor_c3]

11. In support of your post, Lets not forget they all have bills to pay

I can understand how ideals fly out the door when a person has a family that depends on them for their income.

If a person is lucky enough to have a decent paying federal government job with decent benefits, they aren't going to be eager to risk losing that job.

[2naSalit]

43. They are also threatened with prosecution

for not obeying a directive, like a court marshal sort of inquisition. And getting jobs right now is hard, I am waiting for the hiring freeze to lift so I can see if I actually have a job this year-one I enjoy and look forward to performing... and yes, I wear a federal uniform and a badge with limited LE duties attached (not TSA or any job where I actually have to touch people).

[Victor_c3]

46. Working for the federal government was a dream come true for me

I took a tremendous amount of pride in the work I did. I used to work as a chemist for the department of treasury. As an employee you are directly working for the American people. I was proud of that fact and I was very conscientious of waste and expenditures associated with my job. Instead of busting my but to make some corporation's stock tick up a few cents, I was actually doing something for our nation.

It is hard to get into the federal service, but it is so worth it when you do.

[2naSalit]

47. Indeed.

I had a few hoop jumps to get into the jobs I have had in past years. I have been a proud public servant... until - at one job - I was so disillusioned that I moved to a different agency with a similar mission but less of a crappy job that undermined my humanity. he last position I have held was a lot of fun and an essential responsibility which I welcome. I couldn't bring myself to take a federal position during the W regime, I was slated for a position in the SES but decided I couldn't maintain my self esteem and work for that cabal of murderers and thieves.

[DeminPennswoods]

77. Me, too

I always wanted to work for the federal gov't. I ended up in DoD managing parts and logistics, but it was a lot of fun. In DoD it's easy to lose perspective with the amount of money it gets, but I always tried to think of the American taxpayer dollars I was spending as coming out of my own pocket. I think most federal civil servants had/have a mindset similar to mine.

I'd bet these TSA workers who had to carry out this EO did not go home feeling good about themselves or their job. Just like I'm sure it's more likely than not these career lawyers in DoJ have to grit their teeth while arguing the case for Trump's EO.

[treestar]

75. well OK but how far do you go

and are you going to lose your job for questioning starving people or handcuffing a 5 year old?

[Blue_true]

51. A true liberal in those cases would have tried to make

The detained people comfortable and made an effort to explain to them why they were being held. Don't normalize the brutality as just following orders, the people doing the gross acts likely were waiting for the opportunity.

[Hestia]

85. Exactly! I told my DH that the above actions reflected all the stories about nazi's infiltrating the

military and police departments around the country. Is it too much of a stretch to think that they have infiltrated the TSA also? I find it a stretch that as soon as the ink was dry on the EO, then the second, they are detaining people.

[tblue37]

57. I mention the Milgram Experiment & Stanford Prison Experiment in my own post

on this thread.

[Scarsdale]

12. Staying employed

People will do what they are told, to keep their jobs! The person to blame is the orange shitgibbon in the WH, illegitimately. I would venture to say that many, if not all, the employees wished they did not have to do what they were told to do. Despite unemployment numbers going down, a steady job is STILL something to value. tRump should understand this, look what his wife tolerates in order to keep her $$$$ flowing in!

[2naSalit]

44. I am sure many were reconsidering their jobs at that point...

In many cases the ones who are blamed have few options at resistance... and they may not have known what would develop in the performance of obeying the directive. The lower level workers are not always made aware of the whole story when ordered to do something like that. And they were probably, written in the directive itself, threatened with serious discipline for not carrying out the order where ever having a decent job again could be in jeopardy.

In a public trust position w. the federal gov't also involves some serious background investigation that is not voluntary... a stain on one's record could sentence them to slinging burgers for the rest of their lives.

[tblue37]

55. The Milgram Experiment showed that MOST ordinary people would commit torture and murder

if told to do so by an authority figure.

The Stanford Prison Experiment showed that ordinary people easily become monsters when given power over others.

We USED to study those experiments in college.

[dawg]

58. Or at least listen to songs about them ...

on Peter Gabriel albums.

[Skittles]

91. FUCK THAT

and bullshit, I would REFUSE to treat someone in an inhumane fashion, FOR ANY REASON

[dawg]

92. I'm with you on that ... mostly.

But you and I - along with the majority of the people on this board - are the exceptions, not the rule.

We're kidding ourselves if we fail to understand basic human nature and the depths that our fellow countrymen are capable of.

The early 20th century Germans were no more monstrous than the Americans of today. Quite possibly, they were less so. But look what happened nonetheless.

[neeksgeek]

4. Some people never question authority

Read Hitler's Willing Executioners for a particularly terrifying example.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler's_Willing_Executioners

I'm really disappointed that this conversation still has to happen in our society, but there it is.

[Danmel]

6. I was just about to post this

Ordinary people, next door neighbors, got up every morning, and went to work in death camps, killed children, then came home and read bedtime stories to their children. It is bone chilling.

[kirby]

26. From wikipedia...

I hadn't heard of this book and you piqued my curiosity. However while looking at the wikipedia page...

The book was a "publishing phenomenon",[1] achieving fame in both the United States and Germany, despite its "mostly scathing" reception among historians,[2] who were unusually vocal in condemning it as ahistorical and, in the words of Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg, "totally wrong about everything" and "worthless".[3][4]

[neeksgeek]

80. There is a lot of controversy

It's an interesting read, whichever side of the debate you accept. I think both authors have some valid points.

At any rate, I think there's some truth to the idea that some people think following orders is, in and of itself, a moral decision, and since the orders came from a higher authority, that is what makes them moral. I can't accept that line of reasoning.

Anybody with a functional ethical compass should be able to tell that harming another human being, just because you were ordered to, is wrong.

[bdamomma]

7. this could apply to the Republicans

in Congress too. They only see $$$$$$$$ and damn the American people.

[Scarsdale]

13. True

tRump is 100% THEIRS. They would not work with our classy, intelligent President Obama, but look at their "leader" He is a lunatic ego driven ignoramus. This is the type of "leader" the gop wants, so they can do as they want behind his back. Despicable, deplorable people. Hopefully with each election they will be removed and replaced with DECENT representatives.

[Danascot]

8. I hope the perpetrators

of these illegal acts are being identified and prosecuted.

[2naSalit]

45. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028607915#post39

[cab67]

10. Do we actually know that children were handcuffed?

I know several were separated from their parents and detained, but were they actually put in cuffs?

(What happened was grotesquely wrong whether the children were handcuffed or not.)

[ehrnst]

14. Yes.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/01/31/boy-5-handcuffed-at-us-border-for-being-security-threat-to-usa-6417601/

[cab67]

34. It says "reportedly handcuffed."

What happened was unconstitutional and morally abhorrent, but I have a hard time believing the child was actually handcuffed. I'm not even sure handcuffs would work on a 5-year-old's wrists, and surely someone would have gotten a photo of it with their cell phone.

[ehrnst]

35. The White House says a five-year-old boy was held for five hours and reportedly handcuffed because

he could have been a “threat” to the United States.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/donald-trumps-team-says-5-9725070

[Demit]

59. Aren't handcuffs now plastic ties, which can be tightened to various circumferences?

[Maru Kitteh]

69. AND? Jesus FUCKING CHRIST. Does that make it okey-dokey to fucking handcuff 5 year olds?

and elderly sick grandmas?

[Demit]

72. I was responding to the poster who thought handcuffs would be too big for a child.

There is no possible way to interpret that to mean I thought it was okay. Good grief.

[Maru Kitteh]

83. My apologies, I misread the intention of your post. Children were indeed handcuffed and

it is extremely disturbing to see people denying that here.

[Maru Kitteh]

84. Yes, children were handcuffed. Here's a PHOTO for you.

[Cha]

88. Oh wow, Maru.. seeing is believing..

that's some serious shit.

And trump-ghouls are whining about how they're portrayed in the media..

[karynnj]

15. The universal soldier by Donovan gives the military equivilent

[2naSalit]

37. Performed by Donovan after Buffy Saint-Marie wrote and recorded it...

Credit where credit is due.

[karynnj]

41. Thanks, I didn't know that. Nt

[2naSalit]

42. Funny thing...

I forgot that Donovan even recorded it!

[IronLionZion]

16. Milgram study and Stanford Prison experiment

showed how easily normal people can abuse authority. Trumpism plus fear plus white supremacy can be a horrible mix.

I do not envy people who have to fly often. I hate flying. If racist TSA agents don't find my US passport and blatantly American accent fake enough, they always have a problem with my suspiciously western-sounding name. (my family is Christian and we are named after biblical figures)

[marcopolo63]

17. It's what you do...

...when you're an authoritarian follower!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/8/5/1556975/-Bob-Altemeyer-has-a-new-web-site-and-a-revised-article-on-Donald-Trump-and-Authoritarian-Followers|

[heaven05]

24. just read.. a little

interesting and bookmarked for later perusal.

[Perseus]

25. Thank you for the link

Very interesting and I think that answers the question.

[Perseus]

18. This is a good story and raises questions

These questions I have always had when reading about dictatorships, and I have always wondered why people like the article describes "went back home, had dinner with the family and read stories to their kids", would act on what has to be against their principles and/or natural human conscience.

Every dictatorship has military whose personnel comes from low/middle society but you still see them abuse people from their own classes, and one has to wonder what makes these people act that way, of course they have to know its wrong. The man putting handcuffs on a five year old must have related to one of his kids, if he had one, or a cousin, a neighbour...what makes these people act that way? I wish I had the answer, but regardless of the answer, it is a mass of people ordered by a sick regime who will turn against their own.

And here lies the danger, that is why people need to be very aware not to stop at Trump, but to see beyond because it is Bannon, Ryan, McConnell the ones the USA democracy has to be very aware of, those are the ones pulling the strings, Trump is just a very convenient decoy, which will be discarded when it is of no more use, but the others are the ones making the shots.

[FailureToCommunicate]

19. We were just following orders...

[heaven05]

22. this..nt

[packman]

56. Exactly - People just doing their jobs

Good Nazis

[PatrickforO]

20. Well done! My fervent hope is that we can somehow avoid another

holocaust...with us as the bad guys this time.

Let's oppose this nightmare with every part of our beings.

[KingCharlemagne]

73. Der Spiegel published an op-ed piece in their most recent issue calling for Germany

to form and lead an anti-Trump international coalition.

Remarkable!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/a-1133177.html

[PatrickforO]

93. This is good in the sense that, had Hitler been more strongly opposed sooner,

WWII and the Holocaust might have been averted.

However as an American, I'm sad, embarrassed, ashamed and appalled. It will take our great nation YEARS, if EVER to recover from this asshole.

[heaven05]

21. typical of people

put in authority positions over other human beings...who are prompted to do evil by the leaders of their/our country, bannon and his sock puppet potus. How many people guarded Treblinka, Auschwitz...et al?????? No surprise at all..it wasn't just fear of losing jobs...some really enjoyed perpetrating this horror show.

[UCmeNdc]

23. This is the real danger of Trump and his blind followers...

Trump's followers will not stop and ask if what he wants is legal and the right thing to do.

[mainer]

27. A great but disturbing read.

It doesn't take much to turn us into good Nazis.

[treestar]

28. One would think there are already directives

about food, bathroom use, etc.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

29. Handcuffing a 5 year old is obscene.

None of these people deserved that treatment, but doing that to a child is child abuse. That kid is probably going to be screwed up and have trust issues for a long time.

[oasis]

38. That story should get a spotlight by the MSM. nt

[Cha]

89. Most definitely.. The poster child for the anti-trumpghouls.

[treestar]

74. You'd think it would occur to the employee

that did it, that there must be some rule about this and that children who are detained are probably treated differently. Really has to be a moron of a person if they didn't at least question their supervisor about it. Like, "I don't have to handcuff this 5 year old, do I?"

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

76. I know, right.

I would have refused if I was told to do that.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

30. The Milgram experiments.

Thanks trump.

[Johnny2X2X]

31. They would have killed

These people would absolutely have murdered the people they were detaining if the President had ordered it. No doubt in my mind. They harmed children because it was what they were told to do. They deprived the elderly of food and water for hours because they were just following orders. They ripped children from their arms of their parents because that's what they were supposed to do.

Anyone who thinks that a holocaust could not happen in America is clueless. There are millions of Americans ready to man the gas chambers right now.

[HopeAgain]

32. The Banality of Evil...

A good time to re-read it.

[guillaumeb]

53. Excellent observation.

I would add, the persistent and ignored banality of evil.

[malaise]

33. An excellent post

Rec

[Aristus]

36. "Patriotic American" is a phrase that will one day bear the bitter irony of the term

'Good German'.

[2naSalit]

39. Perdom me but...

your broadbrush accusations are no better than those at whom you point fingers.

As a federal employee who wears a badge when on duty, not law enforcement but in a Public Trust position. I get that there may be some who are authoritarian leaning but I'll bet there are fewer than you might anticipate.

Please stop yourself from further embarrassment now.

We are not all out to get the innocent just to be good brownshirts. We have families, it is not easy to get these jobs in the Public Trust arena, and TSA employees are not paid much either, take all kinds of abuse from the traveling public and are responsible for far more than you give them credit for with their duties. I suspect that those of you who have never served as a pubic servant might not catch the grittier details of wearing a federal uniform.

I am offended by your post and might have alerted but I would rather you read what I have to say instead.

If you weren't there then..?

I am not defending what happened and I wonder at the mindset of those who were the actuaries in these offenses but then, when you wear the uniform, you obey your orders... unless they are illegal and you can prove it, same as in the military, if you can object in good conscience and the orders are illegal you have an obligation to report or refuse... it will be a long and hard road feeding your family after that.

And who told these workers all the details of the order? I'm sure that, like we see in our civilian police agencies, there are fascists in their ranks and those were probably the ones enforcing these abuses... but it was not every last one of them.

If you have complaints, investigate and get the facts... remember those? Then you can make your assumptions.

[ehrnst]

40. You should address that to the author of the article.

Chris Edelson ([e-mail])

[Demit]

60. The op-ed is reporting specific actions, not accusing all federal employees.

And the author's essay provides sources, links to further reporting with details. I can't imagine what you're getting your back up over.

And if you are going to alert on something because it offends you, it's a good idea to read up on DU's policies on that.

[2naSalit]

61. ...

[Demit]

64. Run out of words?

[2naSalit]

86. Didn't merit a response other than to acknowledge that I saw it.

Believe whatever suits your needs.

[Rex]

48. Sorry, but 'authoritarian' is a no no word you cannot use.

It gives some here the vapors, anyones guess as to why.

[Homer Wells]

49. Kick for visibility.

They should all be ashamed, (that is, if they even know how to feel shame)!

[Blue_true]

50. Don't humanize them. The people that did those acts

We're vicious brutes who likely agree 100% with Trump's policies. A good person just doing his or her job would not have went to such brutal levels.

[guillaumeb]

52. But I was simply following orders.

A classic argument that was rejected at Nuremberg.

Adolph Eichmann was also called an ordinary man but he engaged in quite extraordinary genocidal acts with meticulous attention to detail.

What is the difference between these TSA agents' actions and the actions of a drone pilot who blows up a wedding party full of children, supposedly in the name of a war on terror.

[tblue37]

54. The good Germans who facilitated Hitler's crimes against humanity. nt

[sammythecat]

62. Every evil regime throughout history

always manages to have an army, a literal army, capable and perfectly willing to do whatever they're told to do. humans are truly a scary lot.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

63. Really, do we have to learn these same fucking lessons all over again??!!

This is all Nazi and Fascist crap! No, there are no death camps, yet.There were no death camps in Germany until they built them. Where is the leadership to organize the resistance? Most of us are not sure how to best work to make sure we don't continue down this evil path. It does not seem like working the regular old channels is going to be enough.

[Ilsa]

67. Yes, because schools have a hard time teaching history to kids that

stare at their cell phones every five minutes or text in class, or care more about reality tv shows than the real drama of world history, etc.

I was at my son's school today. He's actually one of the better behaved kids, usually using his phone only for lessons (our school system practically pioneered BYOT). Anyway, the counselors gave me an earful about privileged kids with zero ambition.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

70. I think there would be ways to overcome that sort of problem if not for all the forces

thrilled to have an uneducated public the evil overlords can manipulate.

As it is, we've got millions ready to don the uniform and serve Herr Twitler in cleansing the nation of all the less-than-human non-Aryan scum.

The "ordinary Americans" who wouldn't really fit into that group clear the way for them, then become them.

[Ilsa]

78. Yep. It's predictable. nt

[uponit7771]

81. +1

[Initech]

65. THIS. IS. NOT. NORMAL!!!!

We fought wars to prevent fascist dictators like Trump from being installed. We can't pretend that this is normal. Not today, not ever.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

66. Title is essence of the evil of fascism: "Ordinary Americans carried out inhumane acts for Trump"

Thank you for posting, and thank you Baltimore Sun.

[KingCharlemagne]

68. Trump's willing executioners - nt

[GoneOffShore]

71. Vichy Republicans and quislings.

[zentrum]

79. One of Hannah Arendt's

...points about the "banality of evil" is that it's just thousands of acts, carried out by anonymous bureaucrats, just doing their duty.

Like all those people who processed the newly arrived at the concentration camps. Or who ran the trains on time. Just doing the next thing---following the credo of doing their duty.

[SunSeeker]

82. A lot of Americans are also "good Germans." nt

[Cha]

90. Good little trump-ghouls :(

[Cha]

87. Wow.. excellent descriptive article detailing what went on behind

and in front of the trump ghoul induced crises, that required "ordinary Americans" to treat those passing through the airports, inhumanely..

I have no doubt the head sadist has been rubbing his filthy little hands together in glee.

Mahalo, ehrnst