If Trump and Pence go down in this Russia thing, it's President Ryan, everyone.

[Goblinmonger]

God help us all; this is going to be a long 4 years.

[samnsara]

1. we can deal with him when the time comes....

[Goblinmonger]

2. The line of presidential succession

is like a fuckin' clown car.

I never thought I'd think that Ryan would at least not be a crazy person in the Oval Office.

[CountAllVotes]

34. uh huh

Keep dreaming.

He'll fuck America over like it has never been fucked before!

Reason: He seems to have a bit of a brain perhaps.

All frauds!

Impeach and imprison ALL OF THEM. Ryan included!

[TeamPooka]

55. yes because if that were to happen the GOP would be racked with scandal and they would

have to govern to the middle of the road to prove to America they are not all Russian dupes.

[TuxedoKat]

3. Every time

I see Ryan lately he has this big s--t-eating grin on his face, like he knows something is up and it will work out well for him either way the shoe drops.

[dem4decades]

4. If Pence and Trump go down

It will because of a very grave national crisis, one that the Republicans would be guilty of covering up for months. They will be in no position to continue a drastic assault on the country.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Dealing with Junior is better than Batshit.

Ryan would have weak tainted term at best.

[Goblinmonger]

19. Oh, yeah. The Republicans would be hurt bigly.

And I like that you used "taint" and "Ryan" in the same sentence.

But that smug asshole could be president.

[DURHAM D]

6. Trump and Pence

and Flynn, Bannon, Jared, Ivanka, Miller, Spicey etc. are not going anywhere.

Media and citizens attention span is as long as a sperm.

[libtodeath]

27. Repukes laugh at treason.

[StarryNite]

47. Yup

Just like tRump not paying his taxes, they think it means he's smart.

[Wellstone ruled]

52. My money is on Orin Hatch.

Put money on it.

[Raster]

7. Unless of course, we have a majority in the House when we impeach tRump* and Pence*...

...in that case Nancy Pelosi becomes the POTUS.

EVERY SEAT IN THE HOUSE is up for re-election in 2018. Every. Seat. In. The. House.

[Goblinmonger]

9. At the rate Trump is going

I don't think this will go that long. Perhaps I'm too optimistic.

[Chipper Chat]

11. The media ignores the midterms and always salivates over

"who's gonna run for president in 4 years" (can you hear me Tweety?)
Let's force them to use some airtime on the importance of putting the House back in democrats' hands. (Are you listening CNN?)

[unblock]

8. only if they go down at essentially the same time

if there's enough time in between to appoint and confirm a new veep, then we could get anyone. much the way we got ford.

[Caliman73]

10. Maybe true, but with a weakened Republican party

The 2 top Republicans go down in arguably the biggest political scandal in the last 50 years, with wide ranging repercussions as the FBI director and other Republicans would likely be implicated.

It would be a game changer if they went down. Ryan would be hamstrung on getting anything done. The Democratic party could ride the scandal to big wins in 2018. Think about it, they can also ask, "Paul Ryan is a top top Republican, privy to some of the most sensitive information, what did HE know about the situation with Russia? Would ANY Republican be safe from that line?

[butdiduvote]

14. Yep.

Let's stop using "Pence/Ryan is just as bad" as justification for not pushing for impeachment. I think our goal should be to damage and humiliate the Republicans to the point of no return, then finish them off in 2018. The entire party was on its way out anyway. They caught an unexpected glimmer of hope in 2016 when things seemingly swung back their way, but the reality is too many of us still absolutely HATE them, and we're not going anywhere. 2016 should have been the end of them, but that doesn't mean they still can't go down.

[Goblinmonger]

16. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an impeachment.

I'm just saying that an impeachment doesn't mean there will be awesomeness in the Oval Office.

[butdiduvote]

20. Oh, I agree.

Ryan won't be pushing legislation to increase the minimum wage or anything we'd be seeing with a Democratic president. At the same time, he won't be having a very good time. The second he steps out of line, the resistance will be ready to go after him.

[Caliman73]

23. Not as long as there is a Republican there.

That is true. If Trump and Pence go down, that definitely does not mean that we are done and our work is over. Ryan is not a "better choice". His policies, should they be enacted, are just as economically and socially devastating for the country and we would need to continue to put the pressure on the entire party.

What I was saying is that Ryan, or any Republican that steps into the Presidency, will be seriously weakened by the scandal. It is not only a Trump administration scandal, there are indications that the top Republicans knew about the hack during the election and did nothing. McConnell and Ryan both endorsed Trump, knowing that there was a problem with Russia even thought they have tepidly distanced themselves from Trump on his praise of Putin. This would still be a far reaching situation that would have the Republicans having to answer calls for investigation from angry constituents, facing revolt from Trump supporters (even if they are a minority in the Republican party), and limping along until 2018. If the Democratic Party could win back the House (Senate math is not looking great), then they would have the power to call for investigations, and they would hold the purse strings on the Ryan administration. If by chance it was a Democratic wave and they won both houses in 2018, then nothing Ryan wanted to do would get done and their would be a hostile opposing party in charge of Congress.

That is a very optimistic assessment of the possibilities, but I think that the scope and power of the scandal will be so great that the Republicans would be in serious trouble, especially if they are seen to be trying to protect a traitorous president and vice president.

[phylny]

38. I'm with you.

I'm old enough to remember the shame of Agnew's and Nixon's spectacular, fiery crash. Let's take things one at a time. I know Trump supporters who will be bat-shit crazy if he's removed from office. Nothing would please me more.

One step at a time.

[Dream Girl]

56. Thank you for pointing this out this. That Pence/Ryan is just as bad drives me absolutely nuts.

It should be about the entire GOP party. We need to first get rid of Trump and then turn our attention to finishing off the party. We can walk and chew gum. It's not about one person.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

58. Exactly. Also, if Tangeranus and Pence go bye bye, his base will riot.

They'll throw a "yuuuuge" temper tantrum and lash out at the GOP, who they'll think "let this happen".

Ryan would be kneecapped from Day One.

[shraby]

12. When the open investigations start, and subpoenas are issued, and people start to testify,

I fully expect to see McMullin and Ryan go down too.

[Big Blue Marble]

39. Evan McMullin?

Or did you mean McConnell?

[flamingdem]

13. We need a new election

and should settle for nothing less

[butdiduvote]

15. I agree on principle

...I just don't know that it's even kind of realistic to hope for one.

[Goblinmonger]

17. That's never going to happen.

[sabbat hunter]

26. There is nothing in the constitution

that allows for a new election. So that is not happening.

[flamingdem]

29. There is some provision for power sharing

something like Pence as President and a dem as veep

[rickford66]

45. Ford & Rocky

Unelected Pres & VP. Anything is possible if we are active.

[randr]

18. If Twitler and Pence go down it will be because our system works

Ryan will be subject to the same scrutinizing and rules.

[LAS14]

21. Yeah, but just the other day I was thinking I'd never...

.... anticipated being relieved to see Ryan on the tube instead of Trump or Pence. He doesn't have a political position I agree with. I'd fight him tooth and nail, but I don't see him as literally crazy and attacking the very assumptions of truth-telling in civil society. I'd rather have Ryan.

[delisen]

22. If everyone keeps working. The Republicans will have to get Clinton in there.

There are so many big stories- in what brought us to the eve of destruction. But the biggest story is Russia, Trump, and the Republican Party.

The Republican Party was on its way to completely taking over the country, and they were going to continue even if Clinton was in the White House.

They racked up over 1000 seats in government in the last 8 years-without even county local seats. They built a foundation, they stonewalled Obama, they were not going to quit.

Trump and the Russia connection has outed them-so they had to acknowledge that Russia is not our friend-but they sort of whispered it.

McConnell and Priebus and now Pence, and Ryan are enabling something they know is wrong. The current Republican Party is very different from what it was even just eight years ago.

If the Spy agencies (other than FBI) hadn't pushed, they would have kept enabling. The feel closer to a rich, white, manist, Christian international, and probably fascist movement than they do to us or the US Constitution.

[2naSalit]

24. Doubt it...

because he is complicit in this up to his Eddie Munster hair.

[GoCubsGo]

32. Yes. As is Mitch McConnnell.

As well as a whole lot of other people. I hope it ALL comes out, as it would be the death knell of the GOP, and rightly so. Bunch of goddamn treasonous shitbags.

[2naSalit]

33. I'm kind of hoping for

something similar to the Nuremberg trials.

[Grammy23]

25. I don't understand why we keep thinking in terms of 4 years...

Or even until 2018. The elephant in the room is that in 4 weeks this tyrant in training has already done enough damage to change this country for decades, if not forever. There is no way we can wait months or years to rid the country of this cancer that is going to destroy us from within.

This is a four alarm, red alert, Category 5 disaster that has taken over the Executive branch of the government and made lackeys out of a sizeable portion of the Legislative branch. They are eyeing the Judicial branch to complete the take over. Are we going to just sit here, piss and moan about it? I hope not. As with any disaster, we've had our 72 hours on our own. Now we need to marshall our forces, pull together our best strategists and fight back. If we think waiting until 2018 or 2020 is our hope to regain control, we are fools. By then, Putin, Bannon, Flynn and Players we haven't even met will be in charge. tRump, their useful idiot, will have retired to Mar-a-lago, having completed his duties.

Wake up.

[still_one]

28. When we lost Congress and the WH it was game over. What did the 47% who didn't vote think would

happen?

[WinkyDink]

30. Newsflash: It's ALREADY Co-President Ryan. We're just not at the "Medicare/Medicaid/Soc. Sec." page.

[Goblinmonger]

31. I hate Ryan a lot. A LOT. But I can't believe this is in Ryan's playbook.

Ryan wants to do things that will be horrible for our country, but I doubt what has happened since Lord Dampnut took office is anything hear how Ryan wanted it. I hope he's sleeping miserably because of the mess he helped bring about.

[WinkyDink]

35. I'm not so sure. Ryan also know where he stands in line. ;-)

[Adsos Letter]

36. Good.

Put the weasel front and center in the spotlight where he has to face the public. No more allowing Trump's circus act to hide what's going on behind the scenes.
Put him front and center, and put the heat on!

[Buckeyeblue]

37. Republicans would be weakened

I can't help but think that something is amiss. Why would 45's people think they could be so brazen with Russia. Especially with lossing the general election by over 3 million votes. Especially with Russian interference being so prominently in the news. If this scandal really happened it would be the biggest scandal in the history of this country. And it would be the most poorly executed scandal as well.

I think we need to focus less on this and more on the resistance and 2018. Those are the real fights. This is bad spy novel fiction.

[Dream Girl]

59. This

[louis-t]

40. One, lying POS at a time....

[BainsBane]

41. Pence won't go down

He's not involved in it other than Flynn and the rest have lied to him.

Trump may not go down either, but he'll be tarnished. Flynn is toast. The longer Trump protects him, the worse it is for Twitler.

[tableturner]

43. That is a rather broad and unsupported assumption!

[BainsBane]

46. Which?

[tableturner]

54. When you wrote "He's not involved in it other than Flynn and the rest have lied to him."

How could you know that? Honestly, it is much more likely that Pence either knew during the campaign or since.

[BainsBane]

57. You insist I have no basis for claiming he isn't involved.

when the burden in court and in terms of basic logic is to show he is.

There has been no evidence or implication that Pence is involved with Russia. None of the many press accounts implicating Trump and his campaign have mentioned Pence.

What you assume to be "far more likely" is not supported by any published news story or the events surrounding the campaign: e.g. his criticism of Putin during the debates; the fact he and Trump were not in close communication during the election; and the fact that Trump didn't really want him as VP, but succumbed to the party in the choice.

[tableturner]

63. First, we in this forum are not a part of a court proceeding, so the burdens of court do not apply.

I think it is logical to determine that there is a great chance that Pence knew about this problem before it was exposed. Logic leads me to believe that it would be very difficult to keep this from him.

[loyalsister]

64. I could envision a scenario when 45 agreed to be the useful idiot at the top of the ticket

As long as he gets a lot of attention and is remembered historically. If there were any discipline in this kind of plan, they would have kept Pence out of it. I don't think they're at all stupid enough to sacrifice both.

[grantcart]

42. After the elections President Pelosi

[Greybnk48]

44. I think Ryan will go down with them.

[Hekate]

48. OFFS, will everybody here PLEASE look up Spiro Agnew?!

This "Speaker of the House becomes POTUS" thing only applies if there is a vacancy. The House is unlikely to let there be a vacancy as long as both miscreants are still alive.

[Goblinmonger]

49. Unless they want Ryan to be President.

Do you think if this explodes on Trump/Pence, that they would be able to let Pence become President in order to appoint his successor before they impeach him? That would political suicide worse than what is happening to the Republicans now.

[Hekate]

53. Ryan is too smart a politician to give up his VERY powerful seat for any reason other than...

...death of both Prez and VP.

[Bradical79]

62. Yeah, he'd play it like Kasich if he could

His position though prevents him from just hanging back and pretending to not be part of the problem.

[StarryNite]

50. If tRump goes down

maybe the rest will realize the jig is up and not try to pull as much bs as they would like or they will be the next to face the RESISTANCE! Not that I am all that hopeful that tRump will go. I've been disappointed so many times throughout the election cycle. I still know so many tRump voters who think anything they hear or read that is negative to tRump must be "fake news". One of the only true things tRump has ever said is: “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters.” It's truly sickening.

[get the red out]

51. It's awful no matter which R

Same shit, different face so far as policy is concerned. But Trump is an asset of Putin (and probably Pence by now). This can't continue! I would rather have a non-traitorous R than a traitorous one.

[democratisphere]

60. Impeach and replace as many times as is necessary.

[Bradical79]

61. Line them up

and knock 'em down. If we're too scared of the next dozen people in line to deal with the current problem, then there's no point to being a Democrat anymore. As for Ryan specifically, the political damage and questions about his own legitimacy would pile up, as he cowardly endorsed those traitors knowing how awful they were.