The White House Is Already In Flames

[workinclasszero]

The White House Is Already In Flames
What did the president know and when did he know it?
By Howard Fineman 02/14/2017 05:46 am ET

WASHINGTON ― National Security Adviser Michael Flynn is gone ― that didn’t take long ― but he leaves behind a famous and fateful question: What did the president know and when did he know it?

Donald J. Trump has been president for less than a month, and already the Watergate query is all the capital is talking about, and, as a result, there is a widespread sense of a White House in deep, perhaps cataclysmic, trouble.

The list of failures and missteps of the Trump administration is as well known as it is long: a litany of patently obvious lies to the public and the press; mismanagement and vicious infighting; several malodorous Cabinet choices; mixed messages from on high, many of them coming within minutes of each other; leaks that gush like a fire hydrant; national security lapses that would be comical if they were not so risky; and a job approval rating lower at this point than that of any new president in memory.

But all of that is as nothing compared with the conflagration now.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58a29e1ee4b0ab2d2b187775?

[BumRushDaShow]

1. The sad difference between 1973 & 2017

is who controls Congress. Because the GOP controls it and by significant numbers - at least in the House (I think by 24-25 seats), they can go all-in to suppress and create a mass conspiracy that would forestall any mass-resignation of those members attempting to delay and cover up. The only way to break it is if some finally decide they want to save themselves before it gets to that point, and those few start backing away to minimize damage to themselves.

[MoonRiver]

4. But the not so sad difference, is the ability to disseminate information world wide,

from minute to minute.

[BumRushDaShow]

12. But the problem with that is the mix of fake and real info

that can be disseminated with that minute to minute proliferation.

I remember watching the (somewhat boring for a 12-year old) Watergate hearings with my Mom. At least you could see it with your own eyes - Halderman, Ehrlichman, etc etc.

The question now would be whether the House would be willing to hold public hearings (the current requests have been at least to have closed-hearings for security purposes at the moment) and being that they would have to go after their own, they seem to want to balk at doing any of that - BIGLY!

[MoonRiver]

32. Of course the "WH" won't be willing.

But if Congress obstructs investigating obvious suspicions of treason, which is what we're talking about, they will pay the price, imho, in 2018 and 2020. They can gerrymander, but they can't entirely steal the elections, if significant numbers of Republicans wake up.

[BumRushDaShow]

40. We just have to make sure that we have people to run against them in 2018

and in 2020. Those elections - and notably those at the state levels, are CRITICAL because we need to control the states during the 2020 census for when it comes time for redistricting.

[workinclasszero]

44. If the democratic party doesn't make serious inroads against the republican reich in 2018

this country is finished.

I would flee to Canada or somewhere else if I could if we lose out in 2018 and 2020.

But I can't so....

[BumRushDaShow]

51. +infinity

[workinclasszero]

20. Trump can't escape it

And his rotten administration leaks like a sieve!

[workinclasszero]

6. The republican party has a window of opportunity here

They can do the right thing and rid this country of the two Russian puppets perched in the oval office or they can go down in history as the filthy scum who sold out democracy for fascism.

Trump the war lovin puppet of Putin has his greasy fat fingers on the end of the world button 24/7.

I hope to God there is a republican somewhere who still actually loves this country and will drop a dime on Comrade Trump/Bannon.

[BumRushDaShow]

14. Many of the reasonable (although still annoying) GOP

either resigned their seats or were primaried since 2010.

What we see in there today is a big pile of Teabagger scum.

[workinclasszero]

24. True

If we can't hope for one patriotic republican left in the tea party right then maybe the rats will sell out Comrade Trump/Bannon when the heat turns up on them personally.

Keep digging news media....

[NewJeffCT]

27. pretty much correct there

There really are no moderate Republicans in the Senate - there are just conservatives and different degrees of Right Wing extremists. I'd consider McCain, Graham and Collins to be conservatives and the rest just fighting to prove they're most extreme than their colleagues. (Sure, Murkowski voted against DeVos, but she's still pretty far right...)

Back when Nixon was president, Democrats had a big advantage in the Senate and we had moderate and even liberal Republicans.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. I keep shaking my head at how Mike Lee out-crazied Bob Bennet in UT

which forced Hatch to go from "annoying" Republican to full out teabag-talking idiot. You also see how TX went from Kay Bailey Hutchison to Ted Cruz.

And I remember that Murkowski had to do a write-in campaign to get in office.

At least in ME, when Olympia Snowe left, they got Angus King who caucuses D (it could have been worse given the land of LePage).

[LongTomH]

75. GOP!!! Do the right thing???? Hello, brain stem --- they're republicans!!!!!

Some of them may be feeling a twitch, down in that dry socket where their souls used to reside; but, they'll eventually march in step with their billionaire overlords!!!!

[underpants]

7. There is also a drastic difference in Congress itself

Congress put its body on equal footing with The Executive branch. As Sen. Byrd once famously corrected Larry King "I've worked WITH Presidents but never FOR one". During Watergate pols from both sides did the work. Yes there were those in the GOP who defiantly stood behind Nixon but it wasn't the whole party en masse like it is now. Hell in 1986 Sessions was told by his own party to give it up.

Now the Repubs are so frearful of their propaganda turning on them, they are in lockstep.

[maxrandb]

15. Don't forget that they have so Gerrymandered the Congress

that ReTrumplicans could be caught on camera fellating Vladimir Putin and still win their district by 4% points.

[underpants]

18. Yes. Gerrymandering and the media is what kept them alive post 2006

The DNC has to realize the importance of local races. The 2010 election's impact was in redrawing districts after the census.

[NewJeffCT]

29. True, Putin is more popular with Republicans

than Obama - by a big margin.

[workinclasszero]

33. Sickening isn't it?

Those bastards on hate radio love the murderous dictator of Russia far more than President Obama that's for damn sure!

[Phoenix61]

69. They love, and I use that term loosly, nothing but money

They have already sold their souls and have no loyalty to America or anything else.

[workinclasszero]

71. No doubt about that

[wordpix]

63. gerrymandering is huge, this is how repukes "win"

[BumRushDaShow]

16. As I just posted in #14

The current Congress is now full of Teabagger scum. Very few "reasonable" ones are left. Only thing that might trigger them to do something is if they feel their own seats are in jeopardy and they will look to throw everyone else under the bus.

[underpants]

19. +

[Highway61]

23. Believe me

These town halls are FULL of pissed off citizens. They are coming and bringing hell with them.

[workinclasszero]

25. Damn right!

Indivisible is turning up the heat on those gerrymandered republican assholes all over the country!

[BumRushDaShow]

35. Only thing is that the Kochs are about to unleash their billions of $$$ again

in countering the citizen protests. I.e., they WILL have their "paid" teabaggers out there shortly. Wave $$$ in their faces and they respond.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/319314-right-set-to-fight-back-on-town-hall-protests

The hope is that the crowds out there are actually a mix or mostly GOPers since this is happening in many red and deep red districts, so these reps get their asses handed to them.

[Highway61]

41. Not this time...

I hope....we the people are pissed. The numbers of people are there showing up....and it's just the beginning

[BumRushDaShow]

45. Let's hope so

They and Rove still have their PACs out there ready to pounce to deflect and distract from the Russia thing.

There is too much at stake for them because they want to get their agendas enacted at the federal level after all these years using ALEC to get stuff done at the state level (where some of it is finally being overturned by the courts).

[ginnyinWI]

46. If it is in their own best interest, they will cut #45 loose. n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

50. They would have to do it right away

otherwise the delay might establish "coverup" and could mean their heads if it can be framed correctly at election time.

Thing is though, the group currently in there are a bunch of crazies (with some who learned how to spout RW-crazy crap, although some of the fakers may have talked the talk long enough to internalize it), and I wouldn't put it past some of them doing a kamikaze delay and cover up and not caring one bit.

[wordpix]

53. they should have done it before Trump sworn in but now

let them take their lumps for protecting and covering up

[BumRushDaShow]

67. Yup - but their selfishness kept them from doing it

and now like rats in the corner, they will probably start flailing around trying to find an exit.

[Orsino]

78. The other sad difference: this president doesn't know shit.

Not that I don't believe he wouldn't have signed off--I just doubt that he has paid any close attention to anything that wasn't a sexual assault, a tweet or a TV show. Whatever deal he might have made or what action he might have ordered, I doubt that he could recall any details.

When the time comes for him to testify, he will frequently say "I don't recall," and for the first time in maybe ever, I might believe him.

[BumRushDaShow]

81. Funny but I just posted this not a minute ago

But we are literally right on the precipice of many people making a simple decision on how and when to act. I.e., they really want to sweep this under the rug but if they do so, it becomes the "cover up" in the future. And if they go for it now, they have to do it in such a way to minimize damage to themselves, which will be difficult.

The current narrative of purported "lies" told to Pence is to try to buffer him from the fallout in case Drumpf goes down. However many believe he was just as involved - if not more involved than Drumpf given Drumpf's penchant for not wanting to be "bogged down in details".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8646851

[Tommy_Carcetti]

87. Our cold comfort of a President Pence might be the saving grace here.

Republicans in Congress might realize that the Madman is a colossal trainwreck and a more grounded Pence would be the highly superior standard bearer.

Now, our job in that instance is to never let the American public forget who chose Pence as VP and what Pence was probably knee deep in while in the Trump campaign and White House. But it might help remove the more immediate threat, at least.

[BumRushDaShow]

88. Thing is

if that came to be, Pence would want his own people in there and I doubt the likes of Bannon would go quietly in the night. And this could lead to more shenanigans and blackmail and all sorts of other instabilities where things won't really change much except we wouldn't be subject to random tweet storms.

[uponit7771]

2. Who is the WH counsel and why are they taking the fall for Benedict Donald

[underpants]

13. Good question. Donald McGahn.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/justice-department-warned-white-house-that-flynn-could-be-vulnerable-to-russian-blackmail-officials-say/2017/02/13/fc5dab88-f228-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html?client=safari

[uponit7771]

30. He's an idiot if he takes the fall for Minipootin

[msanthrope]

49. He's one of the dirtiest DC insiders ever.... he's not taking any fall. nt

[SticksnStones]

3. If only 45 could get some advise from someone who knows

What to do when your staff hires go rogue...or rather get caught and you need to deflect guilt....hmmm who could he consult?

Hey, who's he having lunch with today? Oh, that's right...Chris Christie.

Smart move, 45. Ask him to tell you his bridge story.

[flygal]

9. are you serious? Christie??

I'm at a loss for words here. How long is it going to take trump voters to figure out how nuts all this is???

[Orrex]

10. Alas, I'm sure that you already know the answer to that question (nt)

[SticksnStones]

11. Well to be fair, it could just be a Valentines Day thing...

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/02/christie_set_to_lunch_with_trump_in_dc_sources_say.html

[AC_Mem]

22. A Bridge and a Wall walked into a bar...

this joke writes itself...

[Cha]

5. Ouuu.. Fineman. He was always a gop water carrier

[wordpix]

55. no he's a moderate Dem who's been in DC forever

I like his commentary

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. Trump is causing this

[workinclasszero]

26. That's Comrade Trump's administration from day one

and it's getting worse day by day.

[BringBackBarack]

84. My name for Drumpf is "Connard von Drumpsterfire"

So that image is apropo!

[Buckeyeblue]

17. Let's keep our eye on Pence

As long as he can keep himself out of the muck, he has the most to gain here. It will be interesting to see if he really starts to distance himself from the white house.

If he can, I wonder if the congressional R's would be willing to start an investigation into 45. 45's exit is easy. He can rail on about the system being rigged, about how this is a politican's game. The system is more broken than he thought. At this point it is a waist of his time. He's going back to what he does best. Making money....and grabbing pussy.

Pence moves in, pardons everyone. Then sets up a more traditional structure.

[malthaussen]

28. Flynn's "apology" to Pence for deceiving him...

... is already a sign of where they hope to take the narrative.

-- Mal

[workinclasszero]

36. That's one scenario that could play out

Pence is still a right wing ideologue but he would stop the obvious insanity of BLOTUS 45 I suppose.

[wordpix]

56. Dense is too stupid to know what's happening---all this was swirling since

the campaign and people knew in Dec. Flynn made those calls. I call bs on his innocent, "Flynn told me he didn't discuss sanctions in 5 phone calls"

[Cracklin Charlie]

79. The entire campaign is tainted.

That would include Mr. Squeaky Clean, Mike Pence.

New election, please!

[world wide wally]

21. One weasel at a time works eventually.

[jalan48]

31. Unfortunately, I think Trump will weather this.

Watching CNN last night I was amazed that not one of the participants in a panel discussion even mentioned Trump-it was all about Flynn and Pence. I kept waiting for the discussion of Trump and his his responsibility for choosing Flynn but there was nothing. One CNN analyst even praised Pence as being the level-headed one in the Administration. No, "What did Trump know, when did he know it" statement. More surprising to me was that there was no mention of Russia and the election hacking. It was if Flynn was a lone wolf breaking the law. I know this was just one newscast but CNN is supposed to be the good guys now.

[simguy225]

42. Lone wolf or sacrificial sheep?

[jalan48]

43. That also. Flynn takes the fall for all of the Russia scandal. Case closed.

[simguy225]

47. Yep

and everyone sits by and waits on orange man's twitter storm.

[wordpix]

58. not what security officials like Malcom Nance think

he was on MSNBC today asking lots of q's about Trump's role in Flynn's phone calls, no doubt Trump ordered them.

[jalan48]

61. Let's see how it plays out. I think Trump will skate on this one. Who will hold him accountable?

[wordpix]

82. Jason Chaffetz---oooh, I know he'll investigate hard (sarcasm)

[Fast Walker 52]

70. it's not over-- this is just starting

IMO... though probably the pressure will be off for a while

[jalan48]

73. I wish I could agree but I don't think the corporate media is going to make it happen.

At this point they are our only hope, we are blocked in Congress.

[Fast Walker 52]

74. I see many reporters really going after Trump, myself

CNN may not be the best barometer

[jalan48]

77. I hope you are right. Let's see where we are in a month with this.

[Amishman]

34. Does this really change anything?

A sacrificial lamb goes down and will be replaced by someone just as awful.

Congress won't impeach

Trump will continue his crusade, which he can largely due without congress thanks to the massive power of federal agency rulemaking and existing laws.

His supporters don't watch normal news/media or care

I don't see anything meaningful that can come out of this. It feels good to take down one of the worst Russian puppets, but I don't see it impacting the bigger picture

[workinclasszero]

37. We don't know

One Russian mole down, two to go.

History will play out and we will see.

[kwassa]

38. Trump lives in chaos, and always has. Get used to it.

His mental health issues will be stamped all over the presidency, and those trying to adjust to his every mood swing.

Expect incoherence.

[vlyons]

48. Traitor Trump sinking deeper into the swamp quicksand

From the Fineman artocle: "Now that Flynn is out of the White House, he no longer can claim executive privilege if subpoenaed to testify before Congress."

Dumping Flynn is not the end of the story. There's blood in the water now. We, who lived through the real Nixon watergate scandal, know the the cover-up is far worse than the original crime. And their lies will get caught, as many already have, and require even more lies to try and explain previous lies away. It won't end.

I can already see lots of TV ads accusing Republicans of cowardice in not decrying the Traitors in the WH.

[workinclasszero]

54. Totally agree!

Can you even imagine the cover up conspiracy going on right now at the highest levels of BLOTUS 45's rotten empire?

He tried to stanch the bleeding with the firing of Sally Yates but now Flynn is fired. They can't cauterize the wound.

Comrade Trump's empire is bleeding out.

[wordpix]

60. yep I'm tasting the blood, this is a good day

These asshats think they can ignore laws and security professionals'opinions in favor of loyalty to Dump. They're about to get a rude awakening

[wordpix]

52. Congress is complicit--should have read Trump the riot act BEFORE swearing-in

They had a chance to say DIVEST or you're not being sworn in---CUT ALL TIES to RUSSIA, too---but no, and now they have a crisis.

Who did not see this coming? The incompetent criminal Republic cabal, that's who

[workinclasszero]

62. They are all equal traitors with 45

Lets see who will step up and save themselves now!

The info is out there, which republican will be the messenger?

[Chicago1980]

57. Eat your heart out 1812.

[saidsimplesimon]

59. Thanks working class

Finally, to my amazement, I can agree with Mr. Fineman.

[workinclasszero]

64. Interesting times we are living in huh?

[saidsimplesimon]

66. If you enjoy nightmares.

[workinclasszero]

68. Right

I never though in my wildest dreams a Russian mole would take over the government of the USA.

I never thought that fascism would gain power in this country and it has.

I never thought that we would be one "terrorist incident" away from total dictatorship.

I never thought that theocratic dominunists would turn this country into The Handmaid's Tale.

But here we are.

[saidsimplesimon]

65. Rumpian Loyalists in action

Is Loyalty to a party, a religion, or an individual, a value or stumbling block for those holding public office? It is clearly stated in both State and Federal oaths of office. You serve not only at the will of any President or Governor, you serve everyone you represent, regardless of your own views on race, gender, or color.

So why do so many people who can select their team, place loyalty at the top of the list?

The advice of my career mentor was that the first priority in his team selection process was looking first at those with qualification for the job. He then said that loyalty litmus tests were not in his own best interests or that of the company he represented.

Yes persons are a dime a dozen. They are prone to say yes to the boss and then plot behind the water cooler to sabotage the success of a team if it benefits their career or monetary interests.

Remember this: Anyone you step on in your way up will be waiting to figuratively break your neck on the way down.

[bullwinkle428]

72. Congress' decision will be COMPLETELY based on Trump's approval numbers.

As Sean Spicer likes to conclude - "PERIOD"!

[Eliot Rosewater]

76. But does it matter? GOP , Chaffetz etal, the GOP intel chairman who is angry

that Flynn was even recorded, they are traitors, literally.

They wont investigate, we are no longer a Democracy.

Putin is calling the shots and the only person in the GOP or one of them, McCain, who could do the patriotic thing, so far isnt

[workinclasszero]

80. Republicans are party and ideology over country

It's painfully obvious by now.

We can only hope another one is exposed personally and turns on Putin's cabal in the White House to save his own skin.

[wordpix]

83. Except for the fundies, there is no ideology except Get Rich Quick

That is all. So when you see KellyCon and Melissa Spicer up there, you're seeing people who don't care about anything but the MONEY

[Eliot Rosewater]

85. Attorney General Yates fired within minutes for being a patriot

Flynn not fired for 3 weeks after committing treason.

HELLO!

[workinclasszero]

86. Bingo!

She is a patriot for sure!