If Trump goes down and you had to choose

[nevergiveup]

between Pence and Ryan as his successor.....who would it be?

19 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Pence
	2 (11%)
	Ryan
	14 (74%)
	coin-flip
	3 (16%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Hell, at this point, I'd accept Shrub for a third term.

[fleur-de-lisa]

2. Yep. I think Pence, Ryan and McConnell

all knew about the Cheeto/Bannon/Russia ties and did nothing.

[renate]

13. I do too

It just seems so weird that McConnell resisted a vote on Garland, who was more moderate than anybody whom the everybody-was-predicting-future-president would have nominated. It's... almost as if he knew.

[socialist_n_TN]

19. So after those four (Trump, Pence, Ryan, McConnell).......

who's next up? Tillerson at State?

LOTS of choices in bourgeois politics today.

[2naSalit]

32. Tillerson would be the least of options because he's neck deep in this too...

has to go further down the list to folks we've never heard of.


And then there's that nullification of the election thing that is before the SCOTUS or at least under consideration.

[socialist_n_TN]

36. I was just going by the Constitutional line of succession.........

I believe the Secretary of State that's next in line. After that my memory of this gets hazy and I'm too lazy to look it up.

I wouldn't put any money on that nullification of the election lawsuit. A military coup is more likely than that IMO. The people COULD force the issue, but it would take an indefinite general strike to bring things to a head.

[2naSalit]

41. I agree

the more probable forces you mention are just that, more probable than what is prescribed in the Constitution. Then again, The SCOTUS just might be interested in weighing in on this simply because of the fact that they are kind of being written off as insignificant by the cheato banditos... but I wouldn't put a military action off the table either. This goes beyond anything imagined by the framers and most of us, it appears.

It will require extraordinary action.

[socialist_n_TN]

42. With the 4-4 tie dynamic on the SCOTUS..........

I just wonder how it would come down when the votes were tallied. Would Kennedy vote with the more liberal justices to make it a 5-3 win against Trump? And what would the ruling be? Nullification of the election? Removal of all the Cabinet involved and hence removal of them from the line of succession?

Interesting times.

[2naSalit]

44. Good question...

I would prefer that removal of all Cabinet from line of succession be one of the end results.

Interesting indeed.

[JTFrog]

3. Demand new elections. His entire administration are traitors and Ryan has been lying with them. nt

[WillowTree]

7. Well.......but there's that pesky old Constitution again.

[JTFrog]

8. We have had the evidence for a while now. Pretty sure Treason isn't allowed in our Constitution. nt

[PoliticAverse]

9. Yes. You may want to review the Constitutional definition. n/t

Last edited Tue Feb 14, 2017, 01:23 PM - Edit history (1)

[JTFrog]

20. You can't say that Trump and Co. have not been adhering to our enemies nor giving them aid. nt

[WillowTree]

11. Neither are election "do overs".

[BigMin28]

4. Either way

The office of the Presidency will be tainted for at least the next four years. Corrupted from every direction.

[mountain grammy]

5. Rosarito, Mexico

[mnhtnbb]

14. Somebody suggeste Puerto Vallerta to me the other day

but I think they were having gang problems there not so long ago...

[mountain grammy]

18. I love the Baja.

[PJMcK]

6. If I had to, I'd choose the Vice President

If Donald Trump leaves the presidency, by whatever means, Mike Pence will be a very weak president. Although he is a far-right-winger, he would not have a mandate or a coalition to be a strong leader. While he certainly understands government better than his benefactor, throughout his career he has never shown real leadership skills. The backlash against the Trump Failure would come from almost all directions resulting in Mr. Pence's inability to unite enough sides to build a consensus. In all likelihood, he would be a place-holder not unlike President Ford. Furthermore, I suspect that the collapse of the Executive Branch, while profound, would be forcefully balanced by increased strength in the other two Branches, some of which we're seeing hints already.

In contrast, a President Ryan would be very dangerous. Not only is Speaker Ryan a hardcore Ayn Rand acolyte and Republican stalwart, he is very savvy about the functions and structure of the US Government, unlike Mr. Trump and his team of idiots. Mr. Ryan would be able to enact all kinds of terrible and dangerous things that would jeopardize our economy, environment, country and world.

How far down into the line of succession do we have to go to get someone sane?!

[Blanks]

10. Trump needs to resign...

Then Pence selects a Vice President, I think someone from the senate (McCain or Graham because they've been pursuing the Russia connection) then when Pence resigns, the new Vice President takes over for the remaining year or so of the term. In 2018 the democrats control congress and in 2020 the democrats win back the White House.

That's how I see it unfolding. In fact, Ryan doesn't win reelection in 2018, so he becomes as obscure a political figure as Santorum.

[PJMcK]

16. A few questions

Your thoughts are interesting, Blanks, but they lead me to a number of thoughts.

First, why would Donald Trump resign? His ego is so dominant in his personality that he could never admit defeat. It would only happen if any of his acts were deemed illegal and, most importantly, he loses support from most of the GOP. Remember, that's what made Richard Nixon resign: once he lost the support of Senate Republicans, he knew he wouldn't survive an impeachment trial.

Second, both Senator McCain and Senator Graham are more powerful and connected than a President Pence would be. It's more likely that in such a scenario, Mr. Pence would choose a weaker person for Vice President thereby increasing the perceived strength of his own office.

Third and most perplexing, why do you think a President Pence would resign? Will the Russian Connection taint him as well? Is there another issue that would compel his resignation? Actually, he might be supported by many people as "the stability our country needs following this tumultuous episode," (big wink of sarcasm). Here's a passing thought: Mike Pence is a lucky SOB. As an unpopular sitting governor, he wasn't going to be re-elected in Indiana. So he became Donald Trump's running mate, probably knowing that they'd lose but it would give him the credentials to parlay his position into punditry or another meaningless method of making money. Then they won! Most importantly, he isn't the one in charge so nothing Donald Trump does should stick to him. In fact, if Mr. Trump leaves office, the Republicans will probably spin Mr. Pence as the savior to our nation.

Lastly, in the absence of something remarkable, Speaker Ryan will retain his Congressional seat at least until after the next national census in 2020. His district is gerrymandered such that he's safe for the time being.

Thanks for reading my long-winded response. You get a heart for your patience!

[Blanks]

24. Thanks for the heart...

Trump will resign because he will lose support in the senate. If not McCain (unlikely due to his age) or Graham (unlikely due to his bizarreness) it will be one of the new senators (new to wanting to investigate the Russian connection) that will become Vice President.

Pence will have to resign because he will be drawn into this Russian connection (Flynn didn't lie to him, Pence helped Flynn cover it up).

That's why it's important that they pick an established Washington insider as VP when Trump quits, the 'as yet unnamed VP' will provide the stability that we need.

Ryan was vulnerable in 2012, he's going down with them. I expect all of Wisconsin will flip.

[JudyM]

21. Ryan would be more electable than Pence in 2020, otherwise I'd choose him. Dems must have the

candidate with the greatest appeal to middle-of-the-roaders and populists. Let Pence take office and try to keep it in '20.

[Phoenix61]

30. Excellent points

I changed my vote.

[Greybnk48]

12. Ryan is a snake.

I would be he will be implicated as a co-conspirator.

[Yo_Mama]

15. You don't get to choose - it's Pence. Not sure I "get" this poll? n/t

[SticksnStones]

17. I could abide by Lindsey Graham as President.

If we're framing this as though we have some kind of vote in the matter...

He's not horrible ~ good sense of humor, probably knows where a lot of the bodies were buried so, not easily pushed around.

And I'm pretty sure he's read the Constitution, so there's that.

[CTyankee]

25. Plus, he's gay (altho we probably had a gay president in the past ....

[SticksnStones]

33. That's certainly a plus in my book 👍🏻

[Orsino]

22. Either one of them having to wear the Trumpatross around his neck for three years...

...would be good for the nation.

However, the GOP will lay waste to the economy if Congress doesn't swing.

[crazycatlady]

23. Pence

While evil and very socially conservative, I ultimately don't think he's very smart. Ryan is worse because he's smart.

[grantcart]

34. Agree, Pence goes in and we hand him kerosene to put out the fire

[Vinca]

26. Pence would be easier to beat in 2020.

But, who's to say he won't be out the door, too? The whole lot of them might have been corrupted and Ryan and McConnell could be complicit as well.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

27. Pence, who then chooses Hillary Clinton as his Vice President.

And then Pence, knowing the shame he has brought to the country due to his association with the treasonous Trump regime, immediately resigns in shame.

And the 47th President of the United States is Hillary Clinton, and everything wrong is made right again in the world.

[Miles Archer]

28. Make NO mistake, Ryan is WORSE than Pence.

I've spent the last year spelling out WHY that is on DU, so I won't repeat myself here.

[rock]

29. You didn't have a monkey turd

So I had to pass.

[VMA131Marine]

31. Can't we just have Obama back?

Apparently 'community organizing' is better preparation for being POTUS than being a CEO. Who knew?

[LeftInTX]

35. I wonder if Pence would choose Ryan as his VP?

Then bow out for 2020 to pave the way for Ryan.

I don't think they are going to find much on Pence. He isn't Spiro Agnew.

[Chellee]

37. I would have to choose Pence.

Pence would be weak coming in because of Trump. Pence is really bad at separating what he believes, from what the majority of Americans believe, so very quickly people would be frustrated and disgusted with him. He would not understand this, or adjust his approach. Pence would make a much more damaging face of the Republican party. And while Pence would be disastrous for women, children, and the LGBTQ community, (he would be merely terrible for the poor and working people) he would not blundertweet China into dropping a bomb on us, and he's completely incapable of working for the Russians.

Ryan, on the other hand, is, frankly, younger and better looking. He has a much better way of putting things so that people who pay marginal attention to politics are more likely to trust him. He's smarter than Pence and can handle himself in front of cameras better. He has more insidious policies, and would harm everyone, but the 1%, pretty much equally. However, that harm would be substantial. He also, would confine the harm he would do domestically. He's not woking for the Russians, and he's not going to poke China.

Both of them would be as bad as Trump on voting rights. Gerrymandering and voter suppression is the only way they can win anywhere and every Republican knows it.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. I think Ryan might be marginally more reasonable, but Pence would be easier to beat in 2020.

[rogue emissary]

39. had to vote pass.

Pence and Ryan aren't clean in this whole Flynn Russia mess. I can see Donny dumping Pence in a panic to save his own ass. Ryan still hasn't answered questions about House Repubs using hacked information that helped them on down ticket races. So either one of them could be gone in a months time.

[JI7]

40. Ryan. the more of them brought down the better

[GusFring]

43. I'd honestly rather Putin himself just run the country till the next election