So, what's the consensus on DU? Impeachment or not?

[StubbornThings]

I personally would rather Trump continue to embarrass himself and his party. I think it will only make it easier for progressives and the Democrats to win in every race for the next four years.

IMO, I think Pence would be harder to beat.

[get the red out]

1. I worry

I worry about the safety of the people of this country if Trump is not impeached. He is inspiring terrorist groups while the intelligence agencies don't trust him to receive important information because he is under the thumb of Putin. He is alienating our closest allies, who can't afford to share any intel they get on terrorist groups etc... I HATE Pence, but we are on the edge of a complete catastrophe with Trump, and the Rs would still get all their Christo-fascist shit through.

[Cracklin Charlie]

12. Well said.

The stench of what Assface has already done to the Republican Party will be very difficult to remove. And, unfortunately, he's not yet done fouling up The White House.
Plus, Pence has the personality of wet cardboard. He is a lame duck on his first day, should it come to that.

[pbmus]

51. Wet cardboard, bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaahaaa.

[lagomorph777]

88. Agree 100%. Remove the top threats and weaken whatever filth remains.

If we can remove Pence first, that is ideal, the way Agnew was popped out first, back in the day. But even if that's not practical, given the urgency, removal of Agent Orange will have big ripple effects on the KGOP.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. the GOP who are in charge of both house and senate will not impeach their president

unless something goes HORRIBLY wrong for them near the 2018 elections.

doesn't really matter what DU thinks

[StubbornThings]

10. LOL. I don't think I was suggesting that DU could make it happen or that the GOP would do it.

I was just asking what DUers would prefer.

[womanofthehills]

50. I think the GOP might if constitutents up the pressure

and if Trump's numbers drop even lower. Republicans don't want to be connected with a loser for 2018. I bet Pence goes down with Trump.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

98. would have to drop in their districts. that is highly unlikely.

[EllieBC]

53. I agree.

Something seriously will have to go wrong in conjunction with a 2018 loss. But the tea party wave will back Trump up until then.

[pbmus]

54. The people have more power than you are acknowledging ...

[Orrex]

89. That's lovely, but what does it mean in practical terms?

We can't impeach Resident Chump ourselves, and the GOP has no incentive to act.

Yes, we can talk about voting them out, but seriously? They've gerrymandered the entire country to their own benefit, so the House is well insulated against the will of the people. Similarly the GOP is very good at managing elections to prevent serious challenges to their Senate candidates.

I try not to succumb to kneejerk cynicism, but exactly what power do you envision "the people" to have here?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

97. that sounds nice, but just isn't true in this specific instance.

[napi21]

61. Hmmm, maybe not. If it becomes clear to the Pub's who's Town Halls are being rousted

by Dems who are very upset with what this prez has done so far, and it becomes clear that they are working to convert a lot of constituents in their district, I think you'll see impeachment get top billing. Remember, they are Party Loyalists, UNLESS IT HURTS THEIR OWN REELECTION!

[jodymarie aimee]

3. You must have a home, job and automobile and plenty of years to live....

disabled, 65, no auto, no cellphone, SSDI of $10Grand a year. I may lose HUD rental, SSDI and Medicare. So NO, get rid of him now. I do not have years to play with, as you seem to. AND I remind you, we lost midterms after Rs had done much damage, including shutting down the govt 2x. Trump's "embarrassment" may mean our death. This is not a 'fun" poll, as you seem to think.

[StubbornThings]

11. I want to see Democrats stop losing, so no, I don't think this is fun. I'm tired of losing.

And, in a lot of ways, I think Pence would be worse than Trump. Not sure why you don't.

[jodymarie aimee]

15. Pence is not a sociopath

NOBODY is Trump, nobody.

[StubbornThings]

23. True, but Trump is a buffoon that doesn't care about policy.

Pence is a far right ideologue that has some really damaging ideas. And, in my opinion, he would but MUCH harder to beat than Trump.

[jodymarie aimee]

28. What is this BEAT stuff?

How's about we stay in the year we are in. I am 66 this year, when you are older, you will understand that better. Do you know how much could go down in the next 4 months, never mind 4 years. He may kill us all with a bomb. And if the Rs prevent DEMs from voting, it is a moot point.... that is what happened here in Wisconsin. Rs locked up the state, we have no power, no voice. I get the stubborn in your tagline !! And none of us need a lecture as to Pence's policies, etc...pretty well informed bunch, here.

[StubbornThings]

35. First of all, you have no idea how old I am so don't lecture more on what I would understand.

Second, a really damaging Republican will be President for the next years. You or I can't change that.

Third, important elections take place all of the time. It's not only about the President. And, the hatred and passion against Trump can be used to win many of those races that Democrats have been losing without someone like him to run against. But, since you don't think D's can win anymore, maybe you don't care.

Fourth, if you know Pence's record then why are so concerned to get rid of Trump? They are equally bad. As you obviously know.

[pbmus]

58. The people can change a lot of things...

[whathehell]

99. .Pence may be RW, but he is sane. Trump is nuts & that's more dangerous

[StubbornThings]

100. Not if we're talking about winning future elections.

Pence is sane, which means the base and party will happily rally around him. And, so will many independents and ignorant voters.

Trump is crazy but he will only be President for four years. We can use him to win races throughout the whole country for years.

[whathehell]

104. Too early for that, imo, Four years is a long time, way too long for someone like Trump

to be in office. Look at all the trouble he's causing and it's barely been a month!

[Greybnk48]

95. Pence IS a sociopath!

The difference is that Trump is a textbook narcissist as well (which I think can be part of anti-social behavior, or sociopathy, but is not all). Pence is religiously INSANE, with insane, archaic views of women, lgbt, animals and the environment.

These deluded ideas color to some degree all that he does. He's NOT normal unless it's the 11th century.

[putitinD]

30. +1000

[butdiduvote]

4. Impeach them both.

If it can only be Trump, then go ahead and impeach him. Pence will go into his presidency humiliated by his defense of a proven incompetent and traitor.

[jmowreader]

25. If you want to do that, Pence has to go first

Not sure if you can do a simultaneous impeachment (although nothing in the Constitution forbids it...but the Founding Fathers never expected the American people to be dumb enough to put anyone like Trump in the White House) but if you get rid of Pence first, refuse to approve Trump's replacement and impeach Trump, Pence doesn't go down in history as a man who held the presidency.

[TXCritter]

29. Paul Ryan would love that.

I agree with you abotu Pence in general but realize that the next in line is still pretty bad.

[Turbineguy]

5. With the repubs in charge

the stench will have to get a lot worse. This administration needs to decompose a bit further.

[njhoneybadger]

6. Not until tRump gets to around 30% approval rating

[PRETZEL]

7. At this rate, should be the end of the week nt

[leftynyc]

8. NO - Pence is infinitely worse

He's a true believer who guzzled the kool-aid. I just want degenerate donnie as weak as we can possibly make him.

[StubbornThings]

13. Agree. I think Pence is a lot more evil. Trump is just a non-caring, narcissistic, child. nt

[Demsrule86]

86. Trump admires that murder of journalist and opposition political parties in Russia.

He admires strongmen and dictators...he is way way worse than Pence who is an asshat.

[StubbornThings]

91. Fine. Get rid of Trump.

But, what will that get us? The Republicans will rally around Pence, keep their majorities everywhere, and nothing will change. Even if he loses in 2020, they will still have overwhelming majorities in the states and in the US congress.

I prefer we keep Trump, who won't be anymore damaging than Pence, and use the anger against him to take back the country for Democrats.

We need to think long term.

[Rustyeye77]

18. You think Pence is worse ?

I'm not sure anything is worse than Twitler.

[leftynyc]

20. Oh yes, much worse

Donnie doesn't actually believe all this right wing crap like being a forced birther and hating gays. He does hate Muslims and that's about as far as it goes. Pence believes it all. If you get a chance, look into Pence's history as governor on issues like women, gays, schools, etc. It'll curl your toes (and not in a good way).

[StubbornThings]

24. Yep. And he would be much harder to beat than Trump.

Conservative bible-thumping republicans would love Pence.

[Dream Girl]

90. Beat? When? What are you even talking about?

[StubbornThings]

94. I'm talking about how much the Democrats have been losing lately.

Have you not noticed?

We need to use the anger against Trump to start winning everywhere.

[radical noodle]

36. I agree and I lived in Indiana

Trump is too obvious and gets caught every time he does something. He can't keep his mouth shut or his fingers off the phone. He's like the little boy who steals cookies, throws sand in the neighbor kid's face, and paints the foundation of the house puce... but every time he gets caught. Pence would be more like a slow creeping, dangerous toxin being released into the air. No one catches on until too late. Also, don't discount how much better Pence would look after Trump... he would be positively presidential.

[Rustyeye77]

37. So we should live with this asshole for 4 years?

ugggggggggggggh

[radical noodle]

42. I'd rather get rid of both of them!

They're both dangerous as hell. This entire administration is drowning in corruption, they're all guilty. Proving it will be difficult, but I think it will come.

[leftynyc]

45. If that's our only choice

I really believe the best option is keeping the degenerate and making him as weak as we can.

[StubbornThings]

60. Yes. And use the passion and hatred against him to win back the congress.

Both in DC and in the states.

[Rustyeye77]

65. The guy sucks !!!

How can our country put up with this asshole for 2 years ?

Way too dangerous.

[womanofthehills]

69. It's not going to happen - he is self destructing by the day

New drama every morning - the people are sick of it.

[leftynyc]

46. I'm glad you commented

Pence is far more dangerous because we already know what Donnie is about. Pence can fuck you over, with a smile on his face ad then get a good nights sleep thinking he's done G-d's work. I'm so angry at Comey again I could scream.

[Behind the Aegis]

80. You nailed it.

My husband and I were discussing this tonight, and a Pence presidency would spell disaster for gay people and women, especially, but other groups would also suffer "bigly." He, unlike the current disaster, would also be able to rally the republican party around him. There would be almost no vacillation like we see with some republicans with the "president's" decisions. The media would turn on a dime too. If the "president" were to be impeached or quit, Pence would be seen as a "savior" and it could spell disaster for mid-terms, even a reelection.

It is literally Scylla and Charybdis.

[leftynyc]

81. Well put

I'm watching CNN on the Russian connections during the campaign (not after, during). Seems Pence was kept in the dark about everything (or perhaps not, just a very good liar which is certainly possible). With the cons in control of congress, we'll never know the truth. I can just shake my head with disgust wondering what the reaction would be if this had come out about Hillary. It feels like I've never been as disgusted by the republican party and their desire for power at all costs as I am right now. And donnie knew he could count on them for that.

[womanofthehills]

59. It's hard to say one is worse than the other - look at the crazy disorder in the White House now.

What just went on in Mar-a- Lago was scary stuff. Pence is just as deep into the lies as Trump is. We don't really know if Pence believes what he says he does - they both lie like mad.

[leftynyc]

78. Trump believes in

nothing that doesn't line his pocket PERIOD. NYers have been dealing with this degenerate for decades. He's repulsive and has absolutely no core beliefs. The way he was able to convince evangelicals he was one of them was astounding. Pence has never changed his beliefs which are diametrically opposed to everything I believe in. They are not the same.

[lpbk2713]

9. Maximum security prison like Ted Kaczynski.

Trump knows too much now to walk free.

[el_bryanto]

14. I think that it is too soon for realistic impeachment but I think it's going in that direction

It's not like I expected much out of him, but his consistent screwing the pooch is making the United States and, more particularly, the Republican Party look ridiculous.

My one concern is what happens if he does face a real challenge - will he go quietly? or will he try and hold on to power whether it's legal or not.

Actually I have lots of concerns, but that's definitely one of them.

Bryant

[wryter2000]

16. What tips the scales for me

Get rid of Drumpf and Bannon goes, too.

[Adrahil]

17. Impeach.

Politically, Trump will be easier to beat after 4 years of this buffoonery, but I honestly think Trump puts the nation at risk. He has to go!

[Xolodno]

19. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Question is, who will it be running things?

It seems obvious Pence would take up the spot. However, he's considered the sane one and Trump is the buffoon. So if something goes really wrong, Pence could be taking the fall first....just as Agnew did. Which I guess would result in Ryan taking the spot with his "clean" image and then pushes Trump out later.

Reality, there all bad choices, so pick your poison. Regardless, we've have a GOP President for four years, which one, who knows.

[Tatiana]

21. Politics aside, he is a traitor. He must be impeached.

Everyday he occupies the White House is another day he can fork over intelligence to our enemies.

[LanternWaste]

22. Keep the Buffoon where he is.

Keep the Buffoon where he is. He will ruin the mid-terms for the GOP, and he could ruin the branding of the GOP for the next fifteen years.

Any replacement that would ensue should he step down or get impeached and removed, would be competent enough to actually implement right-wing policy. As it stands, any policy the Buffoon wants to push will have a difficult time simply making it out of the clown car, let alone getting passed public and media scrutiny.

[StubbornThings]

26. Agree. I'm not sure why so many don't get this.

Putting up with four years of Trump would create an entire generation of progressives that would vote against Republicans for a lifetime. That, to me, is worth it.

[chillfactor]

33. I agree...

Keep the orange one as president until the midterms...maybe even Ryan will get the axe then.

[jmowreader]

31. The damage Trump is causing, and has the potential to cause, nullifies the advantage of keeping him

He can still start a war. He can still nominate the dean of Liberty University for a seat on the Supreme Court. And he can still destroy people with a malicious tweet. If we don't get rid of the bastard we may not have another election to try to win.

[womanofthehills]

67. Definitely agree with you - the guy is f**king unstable

and the Republicans now know it too.

[CountAllVotes]

27. Lock the commie spy traitor up

FOR LIFE DAMNIT!!!!!!

:kick:

[MoonRiver]

32. They should both be forced to resign.

I think that's the best, and it's pretty damn good, that we can expect.

[TXCritter]

34. Impeach but not just yet

The impeachment needs to have a solid foundation. We can't afford a house that impeaches and a Senate that fails to convict.

We also need the GOP to go along and that could misfire on us. If the GOP is seen to impeach "one of their own" they will gain the moral high ground. They will be hailed as the ethical party. The dems can't win that right now. An impeachment before 2019 will only show the dems as partisan.

A 2019 impeachment (painful, I know) built on a solid foundation by a reclaimed congress will still look partisan but the GOP will look as bad or worse than the dems.

Politics aside, Trump is a rampaging bull in a china shop. Every day he does more damage. The worst we would get from Pence is an effective right wing president but he would be predictable. Trump is out of control and there is no telling what he might do next.

[democratisphere]

38. Impeachment of the entire administration is the only goal.

We should settle for nothing less 'cause you know they are guilty as hell.

[2naSalit]

39. I think this goes

far beyond impeachment as I suspect that there are so many guilty parties going so far down the ladder that this could destroy the country and I do think that they should be tried by an independent court... every one of the cheato's "friends" (and yes, I mean some on Wall Street) and Cabinet. And then there are those in Congress who helped this debacle take place including SOH and Majority leader in the Senate.

[caraher]

40. I'm in favor of it, but it won't happen

Only if the Republican Congress makes the strictly political calculation that it's in their best interest will it move forward.

This goes beyond political calculation for me - Trump is in flagrant violation of the law, is unstable, incompetent - he is an existential threat to the US. Trump is more deserving of impeachment than any president, ever.

Pence is horrible - I suffered under his governorship, which was so bad that his successor is beating a hasty retreat from many Pence initiatives despite a Republican supermajority in the state legislature. But he is at least not completely mad.

I also disagree that Pence would be harder to beat. He'd lock down Christian right voters, but that's about it. Trump knew how to play the media in ways Pence can only dream of. Pence's chief skills are filling out a suit and speaking in Christofascist dogwhistles; he doesn't offer any of the "tear it all down" rage that drew so many to Trump.

[delisen]

41. Difference between Trump/PenceTrump would order torture, Pence would order but also watch

to ensure it is carried out correctly.

Trump is trashy version of Louis XV (After me, the deluge). Pence is the puritan Cromwell, without the military talent.

Trump will blow us up; Pence will squeeze all the juice out of us.

We are in this mess because of the modern day Republican Party and the numerous members who seem be part of the Russian plot or a cover up of the same.

I want to see a deal where Pence resigns, the Republican Congress has to name a Democrat as VP then Trump resigns.

Before Nixon resigned, his VP was forced to resign due to a corruption investigation. We. have some historical precedent.

[FloridaBlues]

43. Think he will be forced to resign Repub won't inpeach

[Iggo]

44. Investigate. Investigate. Investigate.

[StubbornThings]

62. I'd be okay with investigating with impeachment hearings to keep him busy. nt

[briv1016]

47. How many fairies can dance on the head of a pin?

Congress will never impeach Donald as long as Republicans are in control. Republicans will remains in control as long as they control access to the outside and insides of the voting machines.

[StubbornThings]

63. What does that have to do with my OP?

[briv1016]

72. I figured I was speaking to the pointless nature of the question itself.

What does it matter what our opinion on impeachment is if we have no control and are not likely to gain control in foreseeable future? (If ever.)

[grantcart]

48. I am betting that there will be a serious medical event before we get to impeachment

Here is a man who has launched a psychological civil war against himself.

On the one side he wants to be admired by everyone and on the other he has unlimited ambition which has tossed him in a "groundhog day" like experience where he will get increasingly boxed in with no hope.

In these situations the body often says, why don't we take a timeout along the lines of a stroke. We will get rest, everyone will be interested in us, they will stop yelling at me. The body always wins.

[StevieM]

49. It is a pointless discussion because he won't be impeached. Trump is already committing impeachable

offenses right out in the open.

The only way to get rid of him is to vote him out.

[womanofthehills]

52. If Trump goes, Pence is going down too

You know more info is just going to keep leaking out.

[Paladin]

55. Impeachment, just as soon as possible. (nt)

[JenniferJuniper]

56. Trump looks and sounds unwell

The pace will kill him sooner rather than later.

[womanofthehills]

71. speaking of looking unwell

did you see Kellyanne today? If you up your screen to full size, it looks like her kids put on her eyeliner today.

[JenniferJuniper]

73. I think she's been sleeping in her clothes and

just adding layers of mascara on top of old layers every morning.

A total wreck.

[HassleCat]

57. Impeachment but not removal.

[StubbornThings]

64. Yes. Keep that pig busy with hearings and make the Republicans defend him. nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

66. Drain the swamp

But start at the bottom. And no I don't want impeachment. He will be given the option of resignation, I want jail.

[Motown_Johnny]

68. I doubt The House will Impeach

There is less political damage for them to not do it. Most of them are in safe seats anyways plus it protects the (R)s in The Senate from needing to go on record one way or the other.


I wish we could Impeach him, I just don't see it happening.

[Mr. Ected]

70. There won't be an impeachment. These Republicans have no honor.

If we're lucky, the people's revolt will psyche out Trump and force him to resign.

Unfortunately, the Dems are not in the driver's seat when it comes to impeachment.

[struggle4progress]

74. Let us just patiently work to wrap DFT around the neck of the GOP for now

More opportunities will develop

[GreenEyedLefty]

75. Not sure how it will shake out, but Pence will go down with Trump.

Pence is sycophantic enough to gladly take the fall.

Trump deserves a micron of credit - he is engineering the final downfall of the Republican Party and he appears to be enjoying it. He just doesn't give a shit. Because in the end, assuming he lives long enough to survive this chapter, he will become wealthier beyond his wildest dreams on book and movie deals, speaking and talking head engagements, etc.

[Kilgore]

76. No way impeachment will happen

Republicans control the votes.

[BannonsLiver]

77. Pence inspires exactly no one

He was on his legs as gov. of a far right state. He has no constituency.

[StubbornThings]

82. It's not about Pence, it's about the other Republicans not carrying Trump around their necks.

The Republicans would rally around Pence and the religious right sheep would happily follow.

And, using Trump to win is not just about the Presidency, but all races everywhere.

[BannonsLiver]

84. Nah, trump's support is mostly non transferable

Yeah some will fall in line. But those that got in it for Trump this last cycle, a sizable swath, will become disillusioned. Where Trump was trickier Pence is a garden variety far right republican pol. The playbook on beating guys like that was written decades ago.

I get a kick out of all the Pence angst around here. It's rather irrational and maybe even a little bit silly.

[Spider Jerusalem]

79. The best possible outcome might be this:

Trump resigns, Pence gives him a presidential pardon covering any crimes he may have committed. Pence as Trump's successor probably can't win 2020 anyway, but doing that would ensure it. (It was pardoning Nixon more than anything else that ruined Ford's chances in '76.)

[yuiyoshida]

83. No impeachment and here is why

Republicans are the majority in the house and senate. They want Trump. Trump is just the kind of distraction needed for Republicans to quietly pass laws and bills that average Americans would hate.

[Demsrule86]

87. They can't afford the scandal and the low poll numbers associated with Trump.

They could lose the house and Senate.

[yuiyoshida]

103. They have the power now, so they will try to undo everything

they hate from EPA down to the National Forrest Service.

[Demsrule86]

85. Trump needs to be impreached.

This goes beyond political parties...he is a danger to the country and every nation in the world. Consider that he has the nuclear codes. He is Putin's puppet; he must go. I hate both Pence and Ryan...but Trump is worse...he is attempting to become a dictator.

[tinrobot]

92. They need Democrats to impeach - that's a bargaining chip for us.

They don't have 2/3.

If they want Democrats to help them impeach their own idiot, then we need to demand some sort of payback.

[nikibatts]

93. Trump will be persuaded to resign. Lying, deceitful Pence will become 46...bad no matter what

happens. Our only hope is to get out the vote in 2018 and hope against hope that 3rd-party, anti-DNC-DCC folks do not fuck it up like the 2016 election.

[JTFrog]

96. I think there are a bunch of folks going to jail. nt

[iamateacher]

101. He is too dangerous to remain in office

And Pence might go down with him, anyway.

[longship]

102. Tough to say.

No matter what, it's going to be a gnarly four years.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

105. I personally don't think the country can take much more of Trump

It's fucking EXHAUSTING just keeping up with this shit.

I don't like Pence either but at least he's goddamned boring. We all need a break.

[barbiegeek]

107. No Pence either- he is a traitor

[barbiegeek]

106. Impeach & New Election due to hacking (paper ballots)