General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy is the attitude towards Bernie, 'stay out of the way if you're not going to join the party',..
Instead of, 'you vote with the D's as much as anyone so why don't you help start winning again'?
Especially when the party needs many supporters of Bernie's movement to vote for D's in the future.
I think it's funny that yesterday a lot of people were hopeful that Perez made Ellison Deputy chair of the party to bring people together, when a lot of the people that wanted Ellison as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party. They are Independents that think the two party has failed them. Uniting means nothing for these people because they are only interested in a movement that gets rid of the status quo. They are not interested in being brought into a system that they see as a failure unless the party starts to change for what they see as the greater good.
And, throwing a bone to Ellison will mean nothing to them.
I'm not saying I agree with them, or that a lot of them aren't wrong with their messaging. I'm just saying that these people, and there are a lot of them, are not interested in party unity because they're not interested in the party at all. They have moved on from the two-party system and are only interested in what they perceive as real change.
The Democrats don't have to change because of these people. It's there choice. But, if they want to start winning again they need to recognize that the outcome of yesterday will not help at all.
I know and work with a lot of these people (many that are under 35) so I here much of what I wrote above quite a bit.
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Btw, are you one of "these people"?
StubbornThings
(259 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)I'm trying to offer advice. If you want to ignore, fine.
BTW, whining is to continuing to blame people that are on your side because you blame them for your party loses. I'm suggesting that we work to bring these people back into the party, instead of pushing them away.
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Why don't you take a cue from Ellison and move on. There's a war on.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)There are a large number of people, over 40% that voted in Democratic primary that are not interested in what the party is selling them.
My goal is to start winning again and I want to get these people to support that movement.
Everything I want is about the future. It has nothing to do with 2016.
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)butdiduvote
(284 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)What does it matter that he has a D next to his name?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)who puts his skin in the game as a member.
it matters a hell of a lot.
I don't give a shit if indies vote for democrats, I like that. I do however have a problem with independents thinking they can lob bombs from the sidelines and install people and policy without becoming a member.
So, it matters. It matters a lot.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)If it does, then why continue to fight those that can only help? This isn't a game where only members of my team should matter.
Party loyalty is weird.
nini
(16,672 posts)Then work your heart out building your 3rd party. Why do you keep wanting to take over a group you do not agree with?
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)If Bernie were a bonafide member , he would still be hated for his words and impact by those members.
Case in point, he ran as Democrat in the primary and *some* members hated him.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)By his own words, it was because he needed the party's resources and the media attention he otherwise wouldn't have access to.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)Rank and file members of the Democratic Party, that you care not so much ? Bernie's a great man for criticizing the commitment of Democrats yet seems to have his own commitment issues !
IF it was a case that he stood for the Senate as an independent, and feels honor bound to remain as an independent until his re-election, then fine, but let him state that publicly. Otherwise it leaves a sour taste.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)He could certainly do much good...but for his own reasons, he won't. You can't have a say in a party that you don't belong to.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Making this into a sporting event is not helping us reach the goals that we all want.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)If its no big deal and he is one anyways, why won't he just join?
I'll tell you.. Because he doesn't like the party. And well... if one doesn't like the party, then don't join and be a party of one or two or however many. That is his perogative.
He doesn't get to dictate policy from the sidelines.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Do you want to start winning again, or are you only interested in working with those that wear your jersey?
boston bean
(36,223 posts)Yeah, I want to win. and I wish people would stop lobbing bombs from the outside.
You seem to think there is something wrong with being a democrat. i don't.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's time for fresh thinking. Enough with the hero septuagenarians.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)And he and I are not on the same page always...I think getting rid of Dem donors in the age of United is foolish and could cost us elections...no one think alike all the time...but I do think Bernie votes with us most of the time...99%. If he thinks like us then why doesn't he join?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)He wants to be an Independent all his life, never part of a team, then so be it! But he needs to stop meddling in other parties!
Look at his track record. Hardly anyone in Congress supports him, only his votes. He supported Ellison and Ellison lost.
Sanders is not a Democrat! Why does he pretend to know what everyone else needs to do? If he was so smart, then why is he still on the sidelines yelling at our coaches?
He is our version of Paul Ryan. A handful of our own think he's some sort of genius when the reality is that he's just an ordinary bloke.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Rand Paul would give anything to have that kind of support.
And, this isn't about Bernie, or whether he's liked. It's about the people that support his positions that are no longer Democrats, and are now Independents. They won't care about the party unless it changes. You may not care what they think but if you the party to grow, you will need to figure out how to bring them back in.
My goal is start winning again.
We need to do whatever it takes. And, that includes swallowing our pride and working with Bernie and his supporters.
randome
(34,845 posts)His trash-talking has amounted to exactly nothing yet he seems fixated on saying the same stupid things over and over again like a broken record.
He's an Independent because he likes the privilege it bestows on him. Makes him feel good when he looks in the mirror.
To hell with him. His votes are his to give, but he needs to stop injecting himself in other peoples' business. Democrats will handle the Democratic Party from now on. Sanders' star is fading quickly.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)The party has just had its most brutal and humiliating loss in living memory just 4 damn months ago. Yet the answer from people like you is that we should tell half our support to go suck it, and carry on making the same stupid mistakes that put Donald fucking Trump in the White House.
Not happening.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's elementary.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)His campaign was a reaction to the direction of the party, not some radical new direction of its own.
If the lesson you take from Bernies campaign is just 'he lost so he doesn't matter' then you're missing the elephant in the room.
randome
(34,845 posts)He's old and in the way. He needs to join up or shut up.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Impressive..
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Because of establishment Democrats that believe they are above reproach. While the party fights among itself, the Republicans are gaining larger strongholds.
We need to put this behind us and realize that there are two sides with the same goals. We need to change our ways or 2020 will be our last election as a national party.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)And, I don't think you know what trash talking means. Or, maybe you do. Can you give examples of Bernie trash talking?
Wow. The rest of your post is just sad. I feel sorry for you.
randome
(34,845 posts)Like I said, I welcome his votes whenever they coincide with the policies of the Democratic Party but he truly needs to join up or shut up about how to remake our party into his image.
Just who the hell does he think he is?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)More than the parties preferred candidate did. That's who.
Response to Kentonio (Reply #45)
Post removed
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)And of course that's 45% of Democrats plus a whole bunch of people who aren't registered Democrats but could be if they thought the Party represented them.
randome
(34,845 posts)We are taking on virtually the entire Democratic establishment, Sanders proclaims.
The Democratic Party has to reach a fundamental conclusion: Are we on the side of working people or big-money interests? he asks.
The Democratic Party up to now has not been clear about which side they are on on the major issues facing this country, he announces.
This was Ralph Nader's argument in 2000: There isn't much difference between the two parties. It produced President George W. Bush. Sanders said at the start of his campaign that he wouldn't do what Nader did, because there is a difference between the parties.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)You can deny it all you want, but a VERY large % of the Democratic voter preferred Bernie.
vdogg
(1,384 posts)Most of the people from the Sanders camp wanted Ellison, not Perez, but you state the exact opposite. Was this intentional?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)But constantly whining about it anyway.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)My OP offers suggestions to start winning again.
What are your ideas?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Join your union, be a part of the process. Or don't, but at a certain point the people in the union are going to stop listening to someone who can't be arsed to join.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Does he think it's not good enough for him? Does he not share our values? Does he think joining the party would hurt his brand?
It's a legitimate question.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)If he has the same goals, better than many Democrats in Congress, why should anyone of us care what he puts next to his name. If the Democrats can work with him to achieve the things that are important to all of us then why not work with him.
Similar to what he did when he supported Hillary in the general.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Yes, the Dems can work with him even if he's not a Dem. In fact, they already are doing that and have been doing that for a long time.
But it is a little curious that he won't actually join the party, particularly after using the party's resources to help his bid for the presidency. I can understand why it rubs some Democrats the wrong way.
Why do you think he doesn't join the party?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)The only thing I care about is if they are on the right side of policy.
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)"a lot of the people that wanted Perez as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party"
Check your talking points guide - you got this backward.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Let's keep them both up!
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)"... They are Independents"
Sorry , don't follow.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)They don't care how that happens. If it's through the Democratic party, then fine. If they feel the Democratic party isn't helping then they will look somewhere else.
Does that help?
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)The Green traitors are pathetic losers...so if you want to win the Democratic Party is your only avenue.
Ligyron
(7,639 posts)but if we had a Parliamentary system, a lot of this Dem/Ind issue would be moot.
Yeah, not gonna happen I know, but still...
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)And the supporters of Ellison were more "at the periphery" and not deep in the party. What I mean by the latter is Sanders people. Still confused
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)cause, no matter whether we call ourselves D's or I's. Please, let's work together or we'll lose again and we will keep losing.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Sad that so many are not interested in having that discussion.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,019 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,019 posts)not concerned with the who, the personalities - only with the what and how.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)They can't admit it, but it's true!
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)Comey and the Russians. I posted it yesterday...in my journal. That being said, time to move on...and look to the future.
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)And I don't want either of them to run again in 2020!
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Hillary had awful advisors that led her to ignore battleground states -- which cost her he election as well. There were local parties begging for Hillary to come to their state and to stop courting moderate, suburban Republicans because it was hurting the down ticket.
She didn't listen and I blame her advisors and those in her campaign.
butdiduvote
(284 posts)I think without any of those things, we would have Hillary as president. And I think being so divisive during a year when Donald Trump was looking to be the nominee on the other side was privileged, back-stabbing bullshit. I'll never get an apology from Bernie or his house burners for making my life as a woman hell under this administration, so I don't care about their feelings either.
Response to butdiduvote (Reply #121)
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Response to Post removed (Reply #128)
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StubbornThings
(259 posts)I think you need to re-evaluate things.
The Democrats have been getting their asses kicked for years. It's more than just Hillary or Bernie.
Yet, here we are watching the Democrats blame each other and doing the same things that keep them from winning.
butdiduvote
(284 posts)That's why I was hearing people talk about writing in Bernie months later. I think you need to admit you prioritized weakening our first ever female major party nominee because you didn't get your way. Fuck off. I look more down upon people like you than I do some of the Trumpanzees. Find someone else to patronize. I'm reporting you for trying to refight the primaries endlessly and moving on to talking to people actually worth my time.
Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)And many blame Hillary for Bernie being denied. But neither version of the blame game helps us. The divide on the DNC brings it up all over again. We have to get rid of the anger and negativity and move forward.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Their quest for "perfection" is the enemy of the good. These are the same ones who would raze their own home because of a leaky faucet, claiming that "we must destroy to rebuild" rather than keeping everything of value and making improvements and adjustments where necessary.
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)The Democratic party is the only vehicle that can stop Trump and the GOP right now today...and every progressive goodie ever given to this nation came from the Democratic Party. The Green traitors give us terrible losses...as do those who insist on purity. And can I say to those who yearn for multiple parties that the UK has multiple parties, and yet they have that troll Theresa May. She literally was not elected. There has been conservative minority rule in the UK for years.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)And, every one of the people I know like the person I descrive voted for Hillary in the general.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)I honestly believe the unreasonable loud mouths just want to be contrary. This does not apply to those who preferred bernie but voted Dem anyway. Its the ones who can't shut the hell up and actually put in the hard work it takes to work as a team.
They want their way exactly the way they want it. No compromising or sense of the reality of todays political realities. The behavior is causing more problems than helping. They don't seem to understand you simply cannot get anything done in this country you have to compromise at times. It sucks but it is reality.
If they are right and are the majority they should have no problem building the Independent party dont you think? Why would theh even need the Democrats in the first place? If they're really legit that would be what their revolution's goal really was. But they're not, they're a mix of trolls and brats.
Bernie himself has a bit of trump in him. Constantly spouting the 'my way or the highway' type crap. I was a big bernie supporter for a long time until this last election cycle. I saw things in him that turned my stomach - the pope fiasco alone showed me he is no better than most polticians. I agree with most of his views but he is not the only answer and quite frankly he is making things more difficult to work together on.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)It's about winning in the future and not pushing away those (a very large percentage of Democratic voters) that agree with us on policy.
nini
(16,672 posts)Vinca
(50,303 posts)If we don't, this might be the end of democracy in this country . . . seriously. They've got people in charge of departments like EPA and Education for the sole purpose of dismantling the department. Bernie's on board and that should send a signal to his supporters.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Iggo
(47,565 posts)Peace.
NotThisTime
(3,657 posts)You think in 4 years these people are going to be happy with what has happened? NO they are not. So quit whining about the few and go get them to vote their interest. Arguments like this does nothing to help the D's because people who preferred Bernie but voted for Hillary will also continue to feel marginalized. You just don't see it. Stop the complaining and get to work.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Response to WinkyDink (Reply #61)
StubbornThings This message was self-deleted by its author.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Especially given everything that has gone down with Russia.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)FSogol
(45,526 posts)Not fooling anyone.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)I don't understand what you mean.
The whole point of my post was to not push people away.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
QC
(26,371 posts)If not, why not? It's very, very, very important, you know.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)But thanks.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)* and continue to post these kind of topics
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)He continued the divide beyond any reasonable amount of time.
No matter how many times you click your heels, those facts are never going to change.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)But her SPEECHES!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is the ultimate establishment corrupt politician!!!!!
LOCK HER UP!!!!
Give me a fucking break. That helped no one but Trump. Facts are facts.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)He drummed it up, they drove it home.
And Trump tried to capitalize on it.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)fat lie wasn't it? Republicans always lie for votes, always.
Sanders & Clinton never lied for votes, and still don't lie today. Sanders is still a senator & still hard at work for us.
Cha
(297,655 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)StubbornThings
(259 posts)I'm assuming you read past the first two sentences.
nini
(16,672 posts)Is she a sellout too? I would put her credentials up against Bernies any day of the week. So maybe it's not the 'liberal' views you guys only think apply to Sanders that is the real problem here.
She puts it into hard work and actually getting stuff done. Bernie likes the attention and the sound of his own voice it seems.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)You assume Democrats do not all have liberal values bernie does - which is also wrong. The Sanders wing did NOT invent those views. If you've got a couple hours I'll tell you about my parents and grandparents fight for unions, the poor, racial justice, etc etc etc.. I was helping Bobby Kennedy's campaign when I was 11 years old. I know what real values are.
What is forgotten is this country was gradually pulled to the far right and brainwashed by the religious right. They didn't' achieve that overnight either. This is so much more complicated than just wanting liberal ideas put in place and thinking it'll happen over night. WE ALL want that - but if you ignore the political climate of the entire populace you will get no where.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)It's alright if you disagree with them, but it's downright stupid to push them away, as many feel is an okay thing to do.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)csziggy
(34,137 posts)He cannot have as much influence over the party if he is not a member of it. If he joined the Democratic Party and convinced his followers to do the same, they could move the party far to the left.
By staying out of the Democratic Part except when it benefits him, Bernie Sanders is keeping a large segment of the far left out of the party and that lets the party drift more to the right.
And if as you say "a lot of the people that wanted Ellison as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party" then I am fucking glad that Ellison lost for the same reason I am glad Bernie lost in the primaries. If the main supporters of those two are not interested in the Democratic Party and building party unity then they should not be in it. They are serving the interests of the Republican Party and the people who want to deconstruct the social network and the parts of the government that protects people from the corporations.
Those are the people who are serving Steve Bannon's goals even as they think they are going for something loftier. If they don't or can't see that, then they are as willfully ignorant as the Trump followers many here make fun of.
The Bernie Sanders' followers who believed the right wing lies about Hillary Clinton and who refused to vote for her gave us this shit stain we now have squatting in the White House. They gave us Steve Bannon and all the Russian owned traitors now in control of the maggots in the government. They gave us the most corporate owned Cabinet in the history of the US government.
And they did it while claiming that Hillary Clinton was "owned" by the establishment and corporations.
If Bernie Sanders had come out after November 8 and said he was going to stay in the Democratic Party to build unity to fight against the Trump administration and the massive control of the Republicans, I would still respect him. Instead he dropped back out of the party when it no longer served his purposes and his followers continue to tear apart the Democratic Party.
So I have no more respect for Sanders or his followers. They cannot really care about the country because their failure to unite under one party will keep Trump and the Republicans in charge and allow the destruction of what has been built to protect the average person.
So if you are right about what the Sanders followers feel, then FUCK Bernie Sanders and his toadies. May they burn in hell.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)It's about pushing away those that supported him...45% of the Democratic primary voters.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)The way he normally does.
But I get the impression that Sanders would rather retain his followers' worship rather than steer them to ways to have more influence over the future of the country. Splintering the Democratic Party only serves the purposes of the right wing Republicans - and that is what the Sanders followers are doing.
As I said - they are as willfully ignorant as the Trump followers if they cannot see this.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)They like him because he's on the right side of issues and he's not seen as a party hack. And, they don't need him or his influence.
And, are you seriously suggesting that the Bernie "supporters" should just go along with a party that's been getting their asses kicked for years and not suggest change? And, why are you only blaming the Sanders supporters for the splintering in the party? Hillary and the establishment supporters are not willing to budge. Why isn't it also their fault?
If my team has the worst record in the league why wouldn't I expect others to blame those players and coaches that keep losing? It makes no sense.
csziggy
(34,137 posts)And the Republicans. Apparently the Bernie supporters would rather not have a strong party to fight the Republican abuses - which are directly contrary to what Bernie Sanders has stood for - and would rather keep re-fighting a lost cause.
Bernie Sander will not be president of the United States. He took his chance and he lost. But his followers STILL will not give up the slim chance he might still run again. They STILL criticize the Democratic Party and the last Democratic candidate for president.
At this point I don't believe that Hillary Clinton will be president of the United States. I am ready to move forward, to try to rebuild the party and include everyone who wants to fight against the Republicans and their boy-king Trump. But what I see here from Bernie supporters is continual rehashing of their old grievances.
During the GE Hillary and the Democratic Party took up many of the issues that Bernie Sanders supported. Why do you Bernie supporters still claim that they were "not willing to budge?" That is a LIE - they did incorporate the issues important to Bernie Sanders and his supporters. And guess what - unless they got 100% of their dream ticket that was not good enough. Too many of them took their ball and voted for third party candidates and GAVE the fucking election to Donald Fucking Trump.
Unless Bernie Sanders pushes his followers to JOIN the Democratic Party I see absolutely no reason the party should cater to people who are not party members. If they are members of the party, then they can have a say in what the party stands for. So long as they are outside the party they should not dictate the agenda.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)And pretty much stabbed them in the back at every opportunity. Nearly derailed the ACA, if I recall correctly.
So, it's pretty fucking hilarious to me that Democrats cheered Joe Lieberman when he ditched the party after LOSING and then continue to bitch about Bernie Sanders. I'll take a principled independent any day of the week, over a weasel like Lieberman.
Are you going to be happy when Joe Manchin or Heidi Heitkamp (nominally Democrats) vote against SS or the ACA? Because they surely cannot be counted on a principled vote when it matters. Stuff like Cabinet nominees aren't that important, really, but the ACA repeal is coming up and that vote will be a squeaker. Any Republican "reform" will, of course, suck, and I'm counting on all Democrats and independents to vote against it. But I think Manchin and Heitkamp will ultimately vote WITH the Republicans to gut the ACA. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
More and more registered voters in this country are not affiliated with either party. If Tom Perez, Keith Ellison, Elizabeth Warren and, yes, Bernie Sanders can change what it means to me "establishment", I think it might lead to reversing that trend. I actually don't think Perez is as "establishment" as most in the media seem to think. Sure, maybe relatively speaking, compared to the other candidates in the DNC race, but considering his career, he doesn't seem all that different from Ellison. So I'm okay with this.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)Why do some people whose candidate lost the primaries by 4 million votes feel entitled to have their choice of DNC chair?
Perez and Ellison both had great records. Perez won. And Bernie says the contest wasn't rigged, and we should move forward together. Why aren't his supporters listening to him?
LuvLoogie
(7,028 posts)lapucelle
(18,320 posts)It's inadvertent, but extremely unhelpful.
Response to StubbornThings (Original post)
Post removed
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)but you said it much better
p.s. many feel the same way.
butdiduvote
(284 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Bylaws are amazing things and 'new positions' are not created by sayings -- they are voted upon, then written in things called Bylaws....
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and not just more sideways sniping at the Clintons he's really not doing anything useful.
LexVegas
(6,094 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)between my Democratic party, which has in my lifetime represented my beliefs and the moderate Republicans. I prefer to swim in clear, clean water. You can see the sharks that way.
Rex
(65,616 posts)80% of DU was for Bernie at one time, those you hear now complaining are the minority voice. So don't take much of what they say as canon since they don't represent the party as a whole.
StubbornThings
(259 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)I'm sure some will pretend otherwise.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)He wants to remain "independent" while influencing the party.
Commit, FFS! If you CARE about the Democratic party, and it's direction, JOIN IT. AND STICK WITH IT.
If not, that's fine, but stay out of our business.