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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump officially became an illegitimate President today
Trump officially became an illegitimate President today. He is in office because he and his campaign conspired with an adversarial foreign power to commit seditious espionage against his rival for the Presidential election. And the FBI has evidence of this. This is a crime that has no parallel in the history of the United States. It must result in the resignation of Trump, Pence, their cabinet as well as anyone who knew of this possibility and sought to suppress this including Mitch McConnell.
We DUers all knew this to be the case. What we didn't know is whether the evidence would be there to prove it. The FBI now says they have evidence.
This is Watergate times a thousand. What Nixon did was a parking ticket compared to this.
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)cilla4progress
(24,763 posts)Love it!!
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)I love this stuff. Absolutely love it.
trueblue2007
(17,237 posts)She and the dems working together. It would have been amazing. I'm too emotional, I still get tears.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)continue to be if Mrs. Clinton was elected? She was cheated out of the Presidency but I sure hope this asshole fuckery of a president will soon be impeached. Here is my take, a liar, a cheat along with an escort ascended to the White House, how the fuck did that happen? Am still looking for answers!
iluvtennis
(19,871 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)That she didn't win makes me sad, but the thing that really makes me sad is the thing she lost to.
A part of me died on November 8th. I was never so naïve to believe that racism was dead, or sexism was dead, or hate was dead. Hell, just about any article ever written on the topic brings out the racists, sexist pigs out of the woodwork to comment on them. But, I really did believe that their numbers weren't enough to put a president like... this thing.. in our Whitehouse.
I think what really is just sticking in my gut like some kind of seeping poison, is that he was elected based on the bile and crap that came right out of his mouth. The orange monster didn't even TRY to disguise his despicable ways, but went out of his way to promote it. The promises of white male supremacy wasn't made through surrogates, or veiled language, but laid right out there, and STILL enough people in the right states put that man in office.
I honestly don't know if I will ever love or care about this country again.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)olegramps
(8,200 posts)This a-hole is more dangerous than Trump. The situation that we find our nation in did not just happen within the last election cycle, but is the culmination of 40 years of hated machine propaganda that has produced a generation of delusional lemmings. I don't have much of a stake in the outcome since I am in the last years of my life. Good luck folks. I hope the younger people come to their senses and realize that ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Its their future, not mine that is at stake.
FakeNoose
(32,748 posts)Pence is in on this, you can be sure of it.
They're all weasels.
Lock 'em up.
dogknob
(2,431 posts)President Paul Ryan.
mercuryblues
(14,537 posts)Pence has to go 1st. It the office of VP becomes vacant, the president nominates someone and the houses have to confirm. That is the only way to make sure there isn't a religious nut in the Oval Office.
If Pence stays and it is known by the FBI he was involved, we have another president resigning/impeached.
Someone with clean hands will have to be VP, before trump goes down.
Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)Ryan knew. He had to know.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)He's one of the wizards ..,
Moostache
(9,897 posts)KPN
(15,649 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)commensurate with their crimes, no pardons. As StevenLeser says, Watergate was a parking ticket next to this.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)to start a hangin' season!
Too many Americans have DIED in the past century to protect us from just such skullduggery! What Trump 'n Comp. have done is akin to pissing on the graves of fallen veterans!
It's one thing to share nuclear secrets, divulge submarine blueprints or black market stealth technology. It's another thing ENTIRELY to subvert the whole nation for personal gain and power!
I want to see ANYONE who's however minorly complicit in the perpetration OR gain from this fiasco to be relieved of their authority and prosecuted as if they were (which some truly ARE) guilty of murder. I want each and EVERY dismissed executive action reversed to reinstatement - EVERY agency that's been quashed or neutered put back like it was AND...... we need a totally new election for any and all seats that have however little influence thru the sham we've watched play out. No fucking compromizes - no looking the other way cause someone is (or was) a good person. No more recent institutions of the voter impediments that have been systematically instituted by the GOP. None of that shit! GOPers always crowing about how great a nation this is - fucking PROVE IT! Show us how well you do on a level playing field, with ONLY a set amount of public funding AND with NO stupid-ass voting "machines" (rigged slot machines, really!). No more districts drawn to look like a contortionist's act!
KPN
(15,649 posts)bitterross
(4,066 posts)18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
I'm all for a literal hanging of at least of few of these people who have clearly put self and party above country.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Hung by the neck...... etc etc..........
MFM008
(19,818 posts)Mcturtlehead.
He's in it up to his googly eyes.
3catwoman3
(24,039 posts)...an extra large noose.
KPN
(15,649 posts)stretches far.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)3catwoman3
(24,039 posts)...rather than length. He has a "generous" chin, to put it delicately.
BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Maraya1969
(22,497 posts)JudyM
(29,274 posts)uponit7771
(90,363 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)Ryan, being smart enough to not say "Go", probably more or less said it in language he could deny later.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)It will all come out now.
Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)brer cat
(24,602 posts)Getting trump is our primary aim, but if Ryan and/or McConnell were caught too, it would be a blessing for our country.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)during the election? That is an established fact. He won't politically survive having done that now.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)we see some 12 million going to McConnell run PAC.
triron
(22,020 posts)coco22
(1,258 posts)madokie
(51,076 posts)to me.
I sure hope so cause if not we're truly screwn bigtime
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Our Checks and Balances are creaky from lack of use.
volstork
(5,403 posts)That's why he stonewalled Garland. His wife got an appointment in thanks for his "service."
Solly Mack
(90,785 posts)His wife's appointment was part of the payback. I'm sure there was more.
volstork
(5,403 posts)which is saying a great deal...
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)If the results of this treason is indeed as you write, what does the Constitution say in this regard?
Although unprecedented, I would advocate for a new election.
Are there other options?
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)that it's not only the Constitution that defines "treason." Previous federal court cases come into play, with equal power. These are being reviewed closely.
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)What does America do in this situation?
New elections?
Install Clinton?
Ask the People?
If the 2016 election was completely fraudulent, what do we do?
H2O Man
(73,605 posts)up Pence, or the Speaker of the House. There will be an attempt to create stability, under the rules of the Constitution.
I would expect some legal challenges to go to the USSC after that, advocating for another election. But I doubt that would happen.
blue neen
(12,328 posts)Time will tell if Ryan knew, but if he knew, then we're looking at Orrin Hatch as President?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)He is perhaps the evilest of all.
SmartRat
(10 posts)Never forget, Pence was hand-picked by Manafort during the fake "plane problems". 45 had pretty much decided on Christie. (oy vey.)
Talk Is Cheap
(389 posts)...then, the concept that the Republicans won the presidency is totally invalid.
This invalidates all rights to presidential succession.
There is nothing in the Constitution that solves this problem and necessitates some heady
thinking as to what to do...
And I am not sure of the answer.
DFW
(54,436 posts)I doubt anyone in Congress will push for a wholesale annulment of the election, much as that would be the morally correct thing to do. Governments are scared of things without precedent (too bad they don't react with similar ingenuity to problems like these that are equally without precedent).
That therefore leaves us with Pence (from the fire back into the frying pan) or Ryan, who is most certainly aware of his (suddenly short) constitutional path to the presidency.
I see little chance that the Roberts Court, even short by one, will oversee a wholesale canceling of the election results and somehow call for a new one, even if a constitutional argument COULD be found. Imagine the wrangling over the rules of that one. Would it extend to the Congressional races as well (yum, slurp)?
The Republicans/Russians (it matters little at this point) put a few safeguards in place this time. No decent, halfway benevolent guy like Gerry Ford to take over if a hated controversial president is sent packing. Make no mistake--if Trump goes, unless the election results are nixed wholesale, we get someone just as bad, only more evil and less scatter-brained. Yeah, neither Pence nor Ryan would nuke Pyongyang, but their actions domestically with a Republican Congress would kill just as many Americans over time as a North Korean nuke landing in Century City.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)...for allowing new elections or the installation of the runner-up.
The ONLY Constitutional remedy for this case is impeachment (which would require a supermajority of the Republican-controlled Senate). If that succeeded, we get President Pence. If Pence should prove to be implicated, and removed along with Trump, it becomes President Ryan. Following that, President McConnell. Then President Tillotson. Then the line of succession will pass through each and every Cabinet member. (President Sessions! President Price! President Mnuchin! President DeVos!)
Bottom line: no matter what happens, we're going to be stuck with an extreme conservative Republican president until 1/20/21. And there's nothing we can do about it.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)find a President we MIGHT be able to trust?
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)It's bad guys all the way down!
"Bottom line: no matter what happens, we're going to be stuck with an extreme conservative Republican president until 1/20/21. And there's nothing we can do about it." We're in a world of shit with no way of getting out. Like being in a maximum security prison with no option other than stoically doing the time.
madokie
(51,076 posts)She won fair and square.
Hillary is our honest and rightful President.
No other way can this be parsed
7962
(11,841 posts)there's nothing legally available FOR it to happen
yardwork
(61,703 posts)Instead, there's a long line of successions if the president has to step down. Unfortunately, all those positions are now held by Republicans.
RicROC
(1,204 posts)The 2016 election was indeed fraudulent and the person who indeed won the most votes should be installed as President. There's no reason to hold a special election.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)It does provide for a line of succession.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Presidential_line_of_succession
jmowreader
(50,562 posts)There are things the Constitution was never meant to handle, and this is one of them.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)It's one thing for many of them to be "dirty," quite another for them to be so deeply involved as to affect a removal or conviction.
Much will depend on whether any connections are proven with Pence. It's likely it will stop there. If the FBI shows Pence was undeniably involved, you can be sure the train will stop at Ryan.
I would rather have Pence in there, tainted, weakened and dull as a box of dirt.
Ryan would be painted as a reluctant savior, a blue-eyed wondrous Superman come to patch together the tattered republic and save us all. Ryan is slicker than baby shit, one who could easily capitalize on the whole sorry mess and actually present a formidable challenge in 2020.
No thank you.
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)What about the Supreme Court putting W in the White House? How come the law allowed for that?
llmart
(15,552 posts)There's a first time for everything. Personally I think they should just inaugurate Hillary and all of Dump's picks should go and let her bring in her own people.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)Functionally it had the same result, but the SCOTUS did not cast votes for GWB. Their decision and supporting opinion was based in law. Obviously, the dissenting opinions were also based in law - but this is why elections matter in the first place. Prior to this election it was the most perfect example of how unicorn humpers like Susan Sarandon (maybe Trump would be better) and Jill Stein fuck over the country and the Earth, pushing our country further and further to the right by handing Republicans victory through useless votes and depressed turnout.
You can read the Bush v Gore ruling here:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)That would include making Hillary VP or something in exchange for them just clearing out Trump/Pence/Bannon and that whole crew.
Public opinion is already turning against them and I would say in another month will be REALLY against them, and with Hillary winning the popular vote, and the midterm elections just 1.5 years away, they will be scrambling to play nice and save face. I know, I know...The deplorables don't know how to play nice, but they do want to keep their jobs.
Me.
(35,454 posts)he was never
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)working with the Russians. Today it's official.
ButSeeYa
(273 posts)Everyday there's a new twist, but no consequences. What are the Intelligence Agencies doing? What will it take to stop this madness? Sorry for the rant. I'm frustrated.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)before beginning a broad congressional investigation that will lead to impeachment proceedings. it will take a few days or weeks.
ButSeeYa
(273 posts)I pray we survive this.
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)The repubs finally did come around to being close to charging Nixon leading to impeachment. They told Nixon either you resign or we will impeach you. Those repubs were not like today. They put country first.
blue neen
(12,328 posts)I hope he's scared *less.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)blue neen
(12,328 posts)but McConnell has been the biggest culprit of all. Nothing that's good for the people ever gets done in the US anymore, and McConnell is one of the main reasons.
I would love to see him frog-marched.
mcar
(42,372 posts)Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)You know, if Congress just decides not to act.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and be tried in the Senate.
RainAndMoreRain
(54 posts)I trust the generals far more than any slimeball currently in the White House.
Trump and his scumbags need to resign now.
Hekate
(90,788 posts)...and the Constitution.
panader0
(25,816 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)"Will all those who expect to be indicted please relinquish your position now so we can proceed in a more orderly fashion?"
eleny
(46,166 posts)aquamarina
(1,865 posts)What incredible times we are living in. The fall of this administration (and hopefully the entire Republican leadership) is going to be spectacular.
keithbvadu2
(36,905 posts)Trump supporters celebrate their victory.
"It turns out that United Russia won the elections in America," Viktor Nazarov, the governor of Omsk, Russia, declared in a radio interview.
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/make-russia-great-again-if-trump-lifts-sanctions-putin-could-finally-establish-his-country-as-an-equal-to-u-s&pubdate=2016-12-03
kentuck
(111,110 posts)Well said.
briv1016
(1,570 posts)Edit: Keep in mind, Russia also hacked the RNC.
SticksnStones
(2,108 posts)I'd trust Canada to sort ths out...
There's no one impartial left in this country.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Come save Our (America's) Democracy as it's totally f**cked up right now.....
SticksnStones
(2,108 posts)I hear they're real polite up there.
sigh... what a mess
luvMIdog
(2,533 posts)groundloop
(11,522 posts)Ronnie Rayguns conspired with the Iranian captors of US hostages to hold our citizens until his inauguration. Then after that there was Iran-Contra.
nini
(16,672 posts)it's not close to this mess.
spanone
(135,872 posts)this will be interesting
Hekate
(90,788 posts)catbyte
(34,447 posts)been let off the hook ever since Ford pardoned Nixon. I have no faith that any of them will pay any significant price for their unprecedented treachery.
I truly hope I'm wrong.
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)You can't have a President who owes favors to a foreign country because it helped him win an election. Can you?
One thing's for sure: We're gong to find out.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,020 posts)R B Garr
(16,975 posts)I'm going to read this over and over.
mehrrh
(233 posts)Trump's presidency must be put on hold insofar as any EOs, signed legislation, nominations and appointees.
Until this matter of subterfuge and possible treason, he is illegitimate and nothing he signs should be considered legal.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR WHITE HOUSE.....
Trump, Pence, Their WHOLE CREW, Sean Spicer, Ivanka, Her Husband, Bobblehead Kellyanne Conway, Racist A**holes Steve Bannon & Stephen Miller, Trump's ENTIRE CABINET.....All of that s**t.
Oh, and get the HELL OUT OF OUR CONGRESS....
Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, The Entire Republican "Leadership" Delegation in BOTH HOUSES....
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Bayard
(22,148 posts)I don't understand why, if the Trump campaign was already under FBI investigation in the summer, why Comey did the Clinton Emails thing right before the election. Please explain that to me.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)It needs to be asked.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)they will obfuscate and obstruct justice, they control all levels of power, Trump is still beloved by his minions they don't believe any of it not even with proof, so this is a big nothing burger which will get laughed away as Democratic partisan sour grapes.
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)Karma has a way of making her rounds.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)To start calling for independent special prosecutor in these supposed leaks and unmasking, if there is a paper trail and evidence they will go hard after the Obama admin folks as political payback.
liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)coping and wishful thinking. Despite all the talk, speculation and news articles, nothing has happened.
elmac
(4,642 posts)President Hillary Clinton is my president.
NamesDave
(58 posts)Skittles
(153,193 posts)SHE SHOULD BE PRESIDENT
Trump is a lying, TREASONOUS piece of SHIT
VOX
(22,976 posts)Never seen such a tsunami of criminal bullshit in my life.
Every one of these bastards should be locked up.
Skittles
(153,193 posts)and people who are DUMBER THAN FUCK fell for it
VOX
(22,976 posts)...bullshit "information" that further reinforces their delusions. They are incapable of thinking for themselves.
Anyone with a few functioning brain cells could discern that they were being sold a load of crap. Now all hell's broken loose, thanks to them. And have they learned their lesson? A few, maybe. But they'll keep voting for awful people who say a couple of magic words (God, "liberty," etc.).
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)started coming out. Mrs. Clinton was robbed of being the President and it was all because of interference with trump and his russian allies. This shit is going to set back the US for a long time!
StrictlyRockers
(3,855 posts)Kimchijeon
(1,606 posts)orleans
(34,073 posts)rather than knock someone on their ass
remember the mantra "grow a spine"?
a few will talk tough--all talk & very little action-- we will wrist slap trump & his team and "move on" because it will be "the best thing for the country" (a song i vaguely remember hearing before)
i don't want that to happen.
i fear it will.
pansypoo53219
(20,995 posts)WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)Well, the lush separation unfolds you
And the products of wealth
Push you along on the bow waves
Of your spiritless undying selves
And you push on God's waiter
Your last dime
As He hands you the bill
And you spin in Slipstream
Tireless unreasoning
Better ride out of the mess
And you paddle right out if the mess
-Ian Anderson
JustAnotherGen
(31,879 posts)GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)That means that we can not predict the behaviur of any of the participants whether on the right or the left*, Representatives or Senators, Trump or any of his sycophants. I expect their past behaviour to provide little, if any, guide to their behaviour now. There is still a framework of laws, but how people will react within that framework, and how those laws will be interpreted and applied, is very much an unknown.
Welcome to the other side of a political singularity.
* - I denote it this way because despite being to the left of the Republicans, IMO the Democratic party has become very much a party of the center-right.
Botany
(70,581 posts)Lock em up
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)as a "legitimate" President. I never will.
bucolic_frolic
(43,281 posts)Global Oligarchs in cahoots to steal a country
The do things for one reason - money!
We are in for it if we can't get rid of them.
How will this happen? Half the Congress must be in on it, and
half the Supreme Court as well!
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Elections are or should be sacred...people have to have confidence in elections...and the GOP between their voter suppression and now this horror have done a great disservice to our Republic. May they all burn in hell and more than few wear orange jumpsuits in the near future...recommended.
rtracey
(2,062 posts)Sorry, but dream on..... Fuckump and his crew of shitstains are not going anywhere. They are here for the duration of his term and most likely for an additional term. Depending on the congress makeup, he may even be here serving for life. He is a narcissistic sociopath who lives for this attention, he loves it. He loves when people go against him, so he can jump, scream, tweet how bad everyone else is but him... " the elections is rigged unless I win". "I had the biggest crowd". "My hands and dick are big".....etc.
The case against him needs to be more then it might be or it's possible its..... he has too many congress fucks scared, and again sorry, but congress is just as treasonous as fuckump is.
liquid diamond
(1,917 posts)Even if trump is convicted, we are still stuck with a republican president with similar political aspirations.
I bet Hillary's emails aren't looking so bad after all.
ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)Response to stevenleser (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There is zero chance of that happening.
byronius
(7,401 posts)There's no way his administration continues without murdering millions of people.
Not that that's not on his mind.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)a coup! We all were duped, and I wish someone would start passing out handcuffs and perp-walking people off to prison!
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)I wasn't duped. I proudly voted for HRC who ran on the Dem Party Platform highly influenced by Bernie. There is no such thing as purity in the Dem Party. There never was or will be. Those who voted otherwise were naïve and foolish. I hope big time they learned the lesson of the election of 2016. When trump goes down, we will be stuck with pence. If pence were to go down, we'd be stuck with ryan. Not matter what, we are totally screwed.
yuiyoshida
(41,861 posts)But the fact that America allowed the fucking Russians to influence our election was indeed something far more than deplorable. And by the way, those that say WE DESERVED THIS SHIT are going to SUFFER along with EVERYONE else in this country.
Turbineguy
(37,365 posts)The jig is (almost) up.
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)What's a Goldwater moment?
Turbineguy
(37,365 posts)was the Republican Senator who told Nixon that he was finished. Nixon then resigned rather than be impeached.
Republicans were different then.
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)Our system allowed for a re-do election. We are talking treason here.
Enoki33
(1,587 posts)our beloved country was launched on a dark path using Hitler's playbook from day one. Trump is illegitimate and that will be proven by the facts. Our democracy will survive. The recent speech by my Senator Jeff Merkley reinforces that belief. We will continue to resist.
Gothmog
(145,553 posts)ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)krakfiend
(202 posts)if trump was is collusion with the russians, and he is kicked out. does pence automatically become president? wouldn't that make him also guilty with trump? would they hold another election? does clinton become president?
wiggs
(7,817 posts)he is a lying fraud who BSd his way to the ballot. He lied every 90 seconds and was able to fool enough people.
That's election by fraud.
If you lied to your customers about how your home-made concoction of cat hairball and dust bunnies would cure baldness, the fact that someone believes you for long enough to buy it doesn't mean it's legal, moral, and legit.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Then it must mean that it's true, and the evidence supports what politicians are claiming it does...
Remember when the FBI had evidence that Clinton had classified material on her server? While that is technically true, how did it turn out in the end? It's way too early to be drawing up the "impeach pence" protest signs. Sorry to pee in your cornflakes, but you know it's true.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I'll respond with the three reasons that is Apples and Oranges that comes to mind first. Already I have thought of two more and I suspect there are dozens but here are the first three.
1. If you have any familiarity at all with classified documents and how they can be accidentally and thus innocently transmitted, you know that this happens all the time and while undesirable, doesn't result in prosecution. You also know that classifications change and it is very possible, as we saw in this case, that the classification becomes more strict after the document has already been transmitted.
2. There is no legitimate reason for three non-elected official members of a non-incumbent Presidential campaign to have contact with high level officials of an adversarial government. Particularly, high level members that are some of the top espionage recruitment members abroad of that adversarial government.
3. There is no legitimate reason for those same three non-elected official members of the non-incumbent Presidential campaign to lie about having ever met with Russian officials during the campaign and then have it come out that they did. This after the Presidential candidate called for, on national television, the adversarial government to perform espionage on his behalf so he could win the election.
Those are just the first three reasons your post is apples and oranges.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)"There's no legitimate reason for three non-elected officials..." isn't the same thing as proving collusion or even treason (as some have called it), but you already know that. The FBI can prove contact, but contact isn't collusion.
I have some familiarity with classified documents, and am also aware that in most cases, "ignorance" isn't considered an acceptable defense, but you know that as well.
Look, I'm not arguing that Clinton intentionally did anything wrong, or that she should have been prosecuted, but going into last summer, the republicans were saying the FBI had proof of classified material, and they were technically right, and look what it got them... nothing.
My post isn't apples and oranges, you just want it to be so it makes your argument look better.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)but even more so in this case.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)I'm just not sure how much fire were actually going to get. I haven't seen any actual evidence that's going to get trump removed by a republican congress and I'm not convinced they have "the goods" on him yet.
I don't think the republicans like trump, but there's going to have to be very convincing evidence or they're going to really piss off their voters.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)We suffered a bloodless catastrophic attack by Russia and now we have Russian assets in charge of two branches of the United States government. It means us has activated a doomsday plan to keep govt running after FBI counterintelligence are executed. And this also means President Obama is still President.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)we went from class to crass and even worse now......geez I hope this whole administration goes down in flames and they take that little weasel ryan with them.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,239 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)election day when the site was shut down by the hack.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)"creative speculation". If Putin and Russian intelligence was working with Trump, it's hard to know what is too far-fetched after that.
eniwetok
(1,629 posts)It's about time Dems started to believe in REAL democratic principles... such as someone REJECTED by the voters SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO "WIN" ELECTIONS.
But as we can see from this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028839729 even progressive Dems could care less... and would rather discuss anything OTHER than democratic principles.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Sure, we all knew it, but it couldn't be proven.
eniwetok
(1,629 posts)1: being someone REJECTED by the people in an election should never "win" that election....
2: those representing the minority should never have the power to govern. The Senate is an antidemocratic body where now 18% of the US population gets 52% of the seats.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)In any case, we have those now.
eniwetok
(1,629 posts)Look... I FULLY support any investigation into the Trump Junta. My point... which you don't seem to get is Trump isn't illegitimate because of possible/probable Russian collusion BUT BECAUSE HE LOST THE ELECTION. He FAILED to get the Consent Of The Governed which is the basis of morally legitimate government. Our system is ANTIdemocratic at its core... and along with the presidency the GOP control over the Senate is morally illegitimate because Dem Senators represent 33 million more Americans than do the GOP.
In a democratic system no one "wins" elections when they are rejected... and those who represent a minority of the nation should never govern. But we now find our very antidemocratic system is posing an existential threat to programs that WERE democratically enacted.