Why exactly do poor and middle class Republicans hate "Obamacare"?

[kentuck]

Would they love it if it was called "Reagancare"? Is it just the name "Obama" that turns 'em off?

What part of their "freedom" does it take away?

Do they really believe healthcare will be better and cheaper if they repeal Obamacare?

Why would they think that??

Do they actually love 90% of it and just hate the "mandate" part?

[hobbit709]

1. Because they are part of the human subspecies homo nonsapiens

also knows as homo foxwatchiens.

[freshwest]

22. Exactomundo!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

77. Exactly! nt

[Tennessee Gal]

79. foxwatchiens!!! I love that!

[MindMover]

2. They are told to hate it....and they obey well....

[AsahinaKimi]

8. Wasn't it Rush Limbaugh who coined the phrase Obamacare?

If not, he sure used the word a lot. I am sure most republicans, and right wingers have picked this up from Rush, who is hero to them.
makes me want to gag..

[monmouth]

3. If it still said "Romneycare" that would be fine. This is huge for our President, they

just cannot deal with it. I'm not even sure it's about race anymore, it's because he's a Democrat. They were horrible to Clinton also. I'm going to have to find another state to live in that will accept Obamacare, Florida's governor has announced he will not allow it in Florida...sigh.

[RKP5637]

9. It seems Scott goes after and supports or doesn't support those things

that could hurt the most people. To me, he seems to take a sadistic pleasure in harming people. It's really pretty sicking to see/hear. At one point in my life I had wanted to live in Florida, but anymore I've decided against that.

[Life Long Dem]

30. +1 nt

[hughee99]

40. If I remember correctly,

quite a few of the repukes in MA weren't fans of Romneycare when it passed in MA, but since it had the support of the veto-proof Democratic state house and senate, no one gave a fuck what they thought.

[davekriss]

78. Can only not setup Exchanges and reject the Medicaid changes

The first item doesn't matter, by explicit ACA law, if Florida fails to setup it's own exchange, the federal government will set it up for you.

The second item is a problem. I do not know for sure what happens when an individual or family fall below 133% of the federal poverty level. By language of the ACA, Medicaid is supposed to kick in. What happens if a state rejects the Medicaid changes? I do not know, but that is a crucial question that needs to be answered soon.

[RKP5637]

4. Thanks for asking these questions. I've been wondering too. I find it

unbelievable that those needing the most help scream the loudest. Are they that propagandized or has stupid really become that stupid in America.

[Ron Green]

5. Why are poor and middle class people

Republicans? That's what makes no sense.

[kentuck]

10. That's an excellent question.

They must have some rationalization for being Republican? Other than they don't want to give up their freedoms, like those "socialist" Democrats? They sound like total morons when they start talking about the free market bullshit when they don't have a job and hardly a shirt on their backs...

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Because someday they will be RICH... hence we need to cut

the taxes on the RICH right now.

I wish I was kidding.

[kentuck]

17. Hence...

Why is it that most lottery tickets are sold to the very poor?

[freshwest]

23. You know what they say about math skills and the lottery...

[Canuckistanian]

28. Lotteries...

Are God's punishment for not paying attention in statistics class.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Here we buy a ticket when it gets over a certain number

our chances go up from absolutely none to god I will be mauled by a brown and polar bear on the same day...



We think it's worth the buck.

I tried for years to explain to my father that one or twenty did not increase his chances in any way, shape or form. One of our two lotteries, the one with better odds, 1% increase requires 100,000 bucks or so.

He was happy with 20 and chiefly, COULD AFFORD IT... why argue with an 80 year old?

[Canuckistanian]

64. I used to play the lotteries

I used all the "systems", too in groups that I managed. Boxes, wheels, etc. Was quite successful, I thought, winning $70 here, $100 there. But one day sat down and discovered the house was STILL winning - as it was designed to do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Of course they are

why we buy, only one buck... in a blue moon... I got a better chance of getting mauled in the same day by a brown and polar bear... than of winning the lottery.

And actually the Mexican lottery has better odds than California, I am not sure about Canadian.

[Marrah_G]

59. Because for a few minutes or hours they can dream

They know there is very little chance they will reach the "American Dream" unless they happen to hit the lotto or get hit by a Pepsi truck.

It's nice to day dream a little sometimes.

[Booster]

29. The answer I get most from that question is "because my parents were Republicans". If you

want to screw with their little brains, ask them very politely "can you tell me why you're Republican". I have asked this question for years and have never gotten any answer other than "I believe in the Constitution", like we don't. They really do not know anything about their own party. Sad, really. No, make that stupid.

[LiberalEsto]

48. Guns?

That is probably one reason.

[davekriss]

81. What they don't understand...

...is that the "freedom" that the Rebublican Party purportedly favors is nothing more than the freedom of the Master to exploit the Slave. The latter, in our times, are debt peons, wage slaves, the marginally employed, the intentionally uneducated.

[RKP5637]

11. I really don't like to say this, but more and more I'm becoming convinced

we really do have a significant stupid element in this country. It's useless to talk to them, they have no sense and seem to really enjoy living in a sea of stupidity and ignorance.

[kentuck]

13. The most depressing part is....

Stupid can't be fixed.

[RKP5637]

19. Yep, so true, so sad. I think Ron White, the comedian, did a skit on that

some years ago, "You can't fix stupid." Something like that ...

[Quantess]

37. There are stupid people everywhere, in every region of the globe.

The difference is that stupidity is highly regarded in the US, as opposed to most other developed, industrialized, first-world nations.

[RKP5637]

43. So true, the more stupid, the more respect it garners. Stupidity in the

US is synonymous with American Exceptionalism. The latter a trite phrase I can't stand. If the US thinks it's going to be a world leader in the 21st century, the playbook needs to be significantly revisited.

[Quantess]

62. I get so sick of hearing that Americans are dumber than

people in other countries. It is not true!! Go travel, and anyone will see that the people elsewhere comprise a variation of smart to dull, just like you see in the USA.

However, our reputation precedes us. And the dumb ones are hogging the whole stage. Somehow, the bonehead element has gained the upper hand. The idiots are slowly but surely choking the smarts out the national politics.

[RKP5637]

65. I've spent a lot of time in other parts of the world, I am well traveled and

the stupidity/ignorance I see here in a supposedly intelligent country is appalling. I certainly agree with you that "the dumb ones are hogging the whole stage."

How can this be stopped? We have a MSM that enjoys the profits from the divisiveness in this country and hatred sells. It's a vile combination, especially with ones such as the Koch brothers.

[Quantess]

68. We still have a lot of intelligent people.

We still have well educated people. Our college educations are still as good as anyone else's. (They have been, at least. Not so sure about the future American students, with the way universities are being undermined.)

The problem is, the top few elites are crushing the middle class under their boot. The upper middle classes are already getting pinched. They will be next to be crushed under the heavy boot. And the scum rises to the top.

I really don't know what can be done. We can look to history, and see the familiar cycle.

[kentuck]

69. A lot of intelligent folks are like Pavlov's dog...

They are trained with the dog whistle.

[RKP5637]

74. Sadly, that's what I've pretty much concluded. "We can look to history, and

see the familiar cycle." It's very disturbing and distressing. When tremendous money and power are intent on bringing down a country it's rather difficult to stem the tide. I've often said money talks and has power, the rest of us mostly talk.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

34. God, guns and fear

America is filled with idiots.

[Tennessee Gal]

80. Guns and abortion. That is why.

They have been brainwashed on those two issues and those trump their ability to comprehend that they are voting against their own economic interests.

[high density]

6. Because Rush Limbaugh and Fox News told them to hate it.

There is no other explanation. They have no clue about what the law actually contains.

[EFerrari]

38. There are scare ads running on some "Christian" channels

that say Obama is shredding the Constitution and running up the debt and that America is going to end. Ralph Reed's people paid for some, the Heritage Foundation has, too.

[arely staircase]

45. precisely - because their sources of information tell them they should be republicans

notice that once the internet came around and libertario-crazy (ron raul, alex jones, etc.) types could reach a wider audience, it certainly changed the gop internal dynamics. but most right wingers will go with whatever rush, hannity, and the like tell them. and they tell them to vote gop.

[Posteritatis]

7. Actually, yes, I think they would.

That's why it's been framed as "Obamacare" instead of, well, anything else. The objections are entirely because they don't like the president on whose watch it happened.

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. Why do they want the government to keep their hands off Medicare?

Low. Information. Voters.

Tagging the President's name to the bill just insured that they won't listen to a damn thing anyone has to say about it either.

[kentuck]

14. But it shows that the Republican leadership and hierarchy...

know their followers very well.

[unblock]

16. mostly because they're republicans and they've been told to hate it.

[wiggs]

18. Because it's been pissed on for three years, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day by

that portion of talk radio that's conservative...90%.

The misinformation and vitriol about ACA comes from all conservative political operatives, officials, pundits, weekend religious talk show hosts, judges, fox 'journalists', hacks, candidates, former candidates, think tanks, right-leaning msm disguised as centrist, etc. As a group, they have no problem lying about ACA...in both technical and philosophical terms.

Their system exists to do exactly this. That is the reason conservative leaders got together in the 60s and created think tanks and media consolidation.

The defense is tepid. Our best progressive leaders of ACA will defend it with wonky calmness, only when asked. MSM doesn't help...they are perfectly willing to let the liars have their say unchallenged, as if a lie is equal in validity to the truth. Neither the progressives or MSM can match the vigor, money, and visibility of the well-funded right that is willing to go as low as it takes to scare and mislead as many people as possible.

The public option started off with 71% support among Americans. A full non-stop assault by the gop changed that within 6 months, and the public option was off the table.

It's amazing Obama has any support at all, given the tactics used against him and his policies. I've been waiting for 12 years for the left to act like it realizes what it's up against.

[RKP5637]

24. Same here, waiting for the left to act like it realizes

what it's up against. Instead, the left often gives polite smiles, changes in direction and accommodation.

Even when the left wins a victory, it's sometimes met with tepid praise by the left whereas the republicans would be shouting it from the rooftops 48 hours a day.

Often I've felt the left needs aggressive lessons in political combat, advertising and PR.

[flamingdem]

84. Very well said, people are finally coming out of denial

and ACA is one reason why.

[vi5]

20. Not all poor and middle class Americans...

...just ignorant, easily misled, hateful, selfish ones.

[Zen Democrat]

21. The poor/working class Republicans listen to Rush, Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, Savage, Fox & Friends

They are told NOT to listen to the "lies" on mainstream media lest they become confused. So, they are brainwashed members of the cult formerly known as the Republican Party.

[kentuck]

25. Is it easier for poor, middle-class Democrats to rationalize why they are Democrats?

Than it is for poor, middle-class Republicans to rationalize why they are Republicans?

One seems to live in an illusory world where they think they will be better off if they keep voting against their own interests.

[elleng]

26. For no good reasons.

They are victimized by rover etc's propaganda which unfortunately has been and continues to be very successful.
Dems have not figured out how to counter it, and of course don't have the money to do so.

[RKP5637]

47. Or the loud megaphones now owned by corporate MSM. It will sadly probably

take another Great Depression to wake up much of America.

[elleng]

75. 'Loud megaphones' same thing,

same propaganda.

[BeyondGeography]

27. The first three syllables

[Historic NY]

31. Mostly because the poor are too dumb to know what they are missing...

and the middle class think thye don't need guberment care.

[dogman]

32. Mostly the name + millions of $

http://today.yougov.com/news/2012/04/10/spillover-racialization-evaluations-bo-obama/

"These results reaffirm the Obama presidency’s unique potential to polarize public opinion by racial attitudes and suggest that this potential extends to opinions about issues as apolitical as Portuguese Water Dogs. "

How much money in RW media is probably unaccountable.

[Hotler]

33. With the poor and middle class it's....

because he is black. With the rich it is all about selfishness.

[kentuck]

35. If you were to do a poll...?

you would find that about half of the people living under bridges are Republican. Why? Because they live in a fantasy world where reality cannot intrude. If they don't have a job and are hungry, they still believe they can pull themselves up by their bootstraps. If their children have a pre-existing health condition, they would still hate Obamacare. Because it is socialistic and would take their "freedoma" away. When they accept the Republican label, it is like accepting Jesus, they accept whatever their Party tells them should exist in their fantasy world.

[RKP5637]

49. And if that isn't enough, on top of that, their republican RW pastor will

tell them they don't pray enough and god will take away their sickness and despair ... if only they give more money to the church.

[Worried senior]

39. Don't think they

were taught critical thinking. Like they want to do in TX.

Knew of one person, belonged to the posse comatatus, on disability, had several kids. Hated paying taxes. He didn't but he was going to fight the federal governement with the rest of the WI red-necks.

[AnnaLee]

41. Obamacares is the plural of Obamacare. I think they should have hijacked the term long ago.

Obamacares about your health.
Obamacares about your access to drugs.
etc.

[RKP5637]

50. This, is exactly some of the simple short PR the dems need. Somehow,

creative thinking is lacking in the dems in doing political combat with republicans.

[ErikJ]

42. HillaryCare became Obamacare- RW propagandist term

They knew what they were doing. Villify the man which villifies the plan.

[4th law of robotics]

44. I'm guessing most people just don't know what it is

few people read anymore.

Of course there are lots of reasons to object to it. But generally not the ones cited.

[DearAbby]

46. It is amazing how powerful Propaganda is.

There was a valid reason it was illegal.

[Time for change]

52. Republicans tend to worship their "leaders"

They are what Bob Altemeyer calls "right wing authoritarian followers". They have to have some authority figure to worship. If their authority figure tells them that the program is bad, it must be so.

[Initech]

53. It's called "I've got mine so fuck you" syndrome.

Ever notice how the people who are quick to complain about freeloaders are usually the ones who will cash that medicare check at the drop of a hat?

[emulatorloo]

54. The Death Panels

[Skittles]

55. they think whatever their dittomasters tell them to think

[RBInMaine]

56. #1 because it was Obama who signed it, and #2 because they believe LIES the RePuke media tells them.

[Marrah_G]

57. Poor and middle class republican have fallen for the propaganda

They hear the same thing over and over on Fox new, talk radio and in their churches.

[madokie]

58. Black President and fox noise

That hate the first part of my subject line and love the other part

[TheKentuckian]

60. Pure partisan hackery.

A TeaPubliKlan pushing this TeaPubliKlan law would flip 85% of those gnashing their teeth on the right.

I also believe very few Democrats would support the same legislation if pushed by the TeaPubliKlans. Hell, I've seen it happen, to a substantial degree.

Everything is about who nowadays. We are getting to the point that the parties can pretty much wholesale swap policies and maintain their voters. All they do is adjust the rhetoric for a different audience.

[emulatorloo]

67. Yes, I am sure a TeaPubliKlan would have included a tax on the wealthy

to help pay for the plan like Obamacare does.

How we're paying for the new health care bill-Get Ready for the New Investment Tax
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002885185

[NRaleighLiberal]

61. All of the Above. n/t

[kestrel91316]

63. Because it's an evil Kenyan soshalist communist nazi plan

designed to kill us and send us all to hell after stealing all our money.

[elbloggoZY27]

70. The No Party Strikes Again

Years ago the RIGHT made Medicare repeal the Catastrophic Illness plan now the same want to derail Obama care. Guess everybody on the RIGHT never gets sick. Also the GOP is enabled by FOX NEWS.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. Because they don't know what's in it, so they believe the lies about

"Soviet-style government health care."

And I must say, the Obama administration did a piss-poor job of explaining what they were doing.

I talked to righties thought they were going to get concentration camp-level medicine.

I talked to lefties who thought they were going to get a Canadian-style system.

Neither was right, and accurate information was hard to find. I searched for an executive summary of the original proposal. I couldn't find one online. Finally, I found one by the Kaiser Foundation.

But the lack of accurate information made it easy for the right to make up scare stories and the left to do wishful thinking.

[Art_from_Ark]

85. Don't forget Max Baucus,

the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee who refused to let advocates for single-payer give testimony-- in fact, he had them arrested. Basically, he just listened to industry representatives and excluded the "little people" from the discussions. So I can understand how some people might have gotten their opinion about "Soviet-style health care".

"Opposition to single payer health care
Advocate groups attended a Senate Finance Committee meeting in May 2009 to protest their exclusion as well as statements by Baucus that "single payer was not an option on the table." Baucus later had eight protesters removed by police who arrested them for disrupting the hearing. Many of the single-payer advocates claimed it was a "pay to play" event.[43][44][45] A representative of the Business Roundtable, which includes 35 memberships of health maintenance organizations, health insurance and pharmaceutical companies, admitted that other countries, with lower health costs, and higher quality of care, such as those with single-payer systems, have a competitive advantage over the United States with its private system.[46]

"At the next meeting on health care reform of the Senate Finance Committee, Baucus had five more doctors and nurses removed and arrested.[47][48][49]

"Baucus admitted a few weeks later in June 2009 that it was a mistake to rule out a single payer plan[50] because doing so alienated a large, vocal constituency and left President Barack Obama’s proposal of a public health plan to compete with private insurers as the most liberal position.[50]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Baucus

[n2doc]

72. Because propaganda works n/t

[Puzzledtraveller]

73. Some of the replies in here are while we always have a uphill fight

Smug and arrogant, gosh I hate this faction of my political party. Shit!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

76. For the same reason they think the U.S...

is the best country on the planet, and has the best lifestyle in the world. And if you tell them otherwise, they call you a Commie.

[DrewFlorida]

82. Because they are constantly fed large doses of disinformation, which keeps them ignorant of facts.

The republican machine continually produces disinformation which to some sounds logical, (example; in recession the government should stop spending and balance the budget just as the average family must do), on the surface it sounds logical that when you have hard times you should cut spending. Although every economist worth his salt understands the governments roll in recession is to support demand by increasing spending and that the reduction of spending in recession is what causes a downward spiral into depression. That is far too complicated for the average person to understand without doing research and taking the initiative to learn, many people are too busy trying to make ends meet and just don't have the time or mental capacity to understand. The republican party understands the dynamics of "dumbing down society" and they work very hard at feeding disinformation through vehicles such as Fox News. We have a very difficult road ahead in fighting back against the lies and distortions constantly put out to the public which after time people come to believe as the truth.
I fight back against disinformation on my Facebook page, whenever one of my friends makes a political statement which is not truthful, I correct them with an accurate description of the truths surrounding that subject, complete with supporting data, quotes, videos of interviews, graphs, or other legitimate data streams. Recently a Libertarian friend of mine stated on Facebook that, "Obamacare is a joke" yet when pressed for the reasons he thought it was a joke he had nothing substantial or logical. I posted data showing him actual facts about what the Affordable Care Act contained. He may or may not read that data, but he won't post unsubstantiated claims anymore because he knows they will be rebutted with logic from me.

[SoCalDem]

83. Because a black family lives in the White House, and

because FOX news et al are propagandistic geniuses.

[IndyPragmatist123]

86. I'll try to give a real answer

As opposed to the circlejerk of "they are idiots" in every other post.

In 2008, the majority of Americans supported health care reform. Healthcare costs were rising like crazy and we wanted the government to do something to stop that. PPACA focused more on providing coverage for the uninsured than it did on reducing costs for all Americans. Thus, Republicans view this as a "handout" to the "stupid & lazy."

For the nutjob Republicans, the anger is because it was done by Democrats. They like the individual mandate, but they hate that the Democrats passed it. If Bush would have tried this a few years ago, they would have hailed this as a great conservative party.

Now, the moderate Republicans, they are upset because of a lack of price controls within the law. I will agree with them here, there should be more cost controls. However, there aren't because the Tea Party called these controls "death panels" and effectively forced them out of the legislation. Had these "death panels" been allowed to stay in the bill, you would have made the far right go crazy, but moderates would have been much more happy because it would have benefited them personally. Remember, these people supported health-care reform in 2008, but do not support "Obamacare." The moderates aren't completely nuts. If you are a middle class American, who is healthy and insured, the bill doesn't provide you with the same benefits as others. To these people, it feels like they are footing the bill for people who have lived unhealthy lifestyles. There is some truth to this, but they are ignoring the other benefits that they may not use now, but could become extremely valuable in the future if they lost their job, had kids, etc.

Disclaimer: I've heard more right-wing arguments against "Obamacare" than anyone on this board. I am 100% confident in that (I'm currently working on a project with someone who was EXTREMELY involved in the case in the state and federal courts).

[Aerows]

87. Because it was a Dem

That got it through. That is all that has to be done in order for them to hate any legislation.