What do you feel would be a good policy on illegal immigration?

[mvd]

I am starting this because this is one issue where my position isn't fully formed. I think we need some kind of balance between compassion and the law. But I am unsure on specifics. I think people who have been here a while should have a citizenship path, and families should not be broken up. Any ideas on what we should propose?

[lies]

1. My opinion

Policies from BOTH parties and from business people have encouraged illegal immigration for decades.

And

The US policy on accepting refugees from South American countries has been politicized and changed repeatedly.

And

US business - especially agriculture - has benefited from illegal immigration for decades.

So.

My opinion is that both parties can't honestly justify punishing illegal immigrants, despite US laws designed to do just that.

The US DOES need border security, but it also needs a responsible foreign policy, an economy that doesn't rely on illegal immigration and rational politicians on both sides to overhaul the system, tied to foreign policy, and business policy.

But that won't happen.

[Phoenix61]

7. " an economy that doesn't rely on illegal immigration"

I think that is the really big sticking point. I don't know how that would be resolved although other, I'm guessing, other countries have figured out a way to make it work.

[lies]

10. The truth

Is two fold

They haven't in some respects - countries alllll over the world abuse immigrant workers so consumers have cheap food.

And in other respects their are obvious solutions like more cheap imports, paying more for less, and just buying less.

[AJT]

15. We would have to punish employers who use undocumented

immigrants. It is the employment that is key. If employers can use people to do labor for less than minimum wage then that's what many will do. Enforcing laws on the employer side is important. That, of course, would mean paying a lot more for many items, like produce.

[latinaliberal]

2. It's a difficult subject

I have had family who been in the same situation thankfully they've been able to get a green card thru family sponsorships. however it's very difficult situation but I do agree with you we should show some compassion and people who ohave been here for ten years or more perhaps should be allowed to stay and have a pathway to citizenship

[mvd]

4. What do you think of..

maybe mostly focusing on criminals who are also here illegally? May be another idea.

[MineralMan]

6. How about treating criminals as criminals, either way?

That seems logical.

[Caliman73]

13. What is a "criminal"?

Jaywalking is a crime. Would habitual jaywalking resulting in numerous citations make one a criminal? How about parking illegally? I am not trying to be a jerk I am genuinely curious because different people have a different interpretation of that a "criminal" is. To many on the right, and some on the Democratic side, people being here without proper authorization makes them criminals. They are here illegally.

[bhikkhu]

24. The criminalization of ordinary life is one aspect of fascism

where everyone is guilty people are happy to point fingers, as long as its not in their direction.

I smoked pot a couple times - I'm a criminal. I consumed alcohol before my 18th birthday - criminal. I jaywalked on numerous occasions - criminal. I got a ticket for bicycling on the sidewalk and didn't appear in court or pay the fine - criminal. I drove without car insurance for a time - criminal. I exceeded the speed limit fairly regularly when I was younger - criminal.

See what I mean? I don't know anyone who hasn't done those things, or more likely worse, but when people get caught we point fingers and lay blame, as if we are flawless ourselves. As long as we are pointing a finger of blame we don't fear for our own situation. Authoritarian governments thrive on and harness that sort of universal guilt, they'll always have some person or group to turn it against.

[Caliman73]

33. I agree. My question was directed at the statement, "Treat criminals as criminals".

Who gets to define what a criminal is or is not?

I think that we can agree on the concept that a person, in order to get access to another person's assets, that lies in wait, then kills and tries to hide the homicide, is a criminal.

There are probably other areas which are easy to define, (Rape, child molestation, etc...). What I was getting at is, whether being in the US without proper documentation, but working without having any other legal problems, would make a person a criminal.

I saw that Mineral Man answered that particular question later in the thread, but there are many people, possibly including some on this forum, who might consider being here without documentation, to be a criminal offense and the offender to be a criminal.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. My Thought Is Pretty Simple

Ignore it. Until there is statistical proof that jobs are being taken that americans would actually be willing to do, and we can PROVE that people ineligible for government benefits are getting them (in volume) and that these people are working without paying SS and Medicare taxes (in volume) then the problem is so small as to make this whole situation into a search for a solution to a problem that barely exists.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Yikes!

My post triggered a response that involved a post removal? I don't think that's ever happened before.
I'm not that controversial

[mvd]

22. Looks like my thread brought out a right wing troll

The post was auto-removed which means MIRT got the poster.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Don't worry

This was just one of our regulars - who shows up again and again. And never gets beyond a few posts before being sent packing yet again.

[MineralMan]

5. My opinion is that I don't much give a damn about

whether people are here legally or illegally. If they're here, they're protected by our Constitution. Their citizenship is really no concern of mine. I can't tell the tourists from the illegal immigrants, really, and don't much care.

[mvd]

11. Well that is one way of thinking about it

Still not sure about going the other way completely, but I feel that would be better than what 45 is proposing!

[Ms. Toad]

8. If you make the law compassionate, you don't need to balance one against the other.

An accident of birth should not restrict where one is permitted to live or work.

[Warpy]

9. We also need seasonal workers

so Reagan's "closed border" policy that forced people to bring their families with them when they came here for agricultural work needs to be abolished. Before that man's idiocy, workers would come here for the ag work, then go home to their families with what they'd managed to save, returning year after year. It worked. Now they have to bring their families or never see them again.

People who have been here for a long time, worked, paid taxes, married, and had kids should get their green cards. Breaking up families to deport an undocumented parent is wrong. Sending people back when they came here as children, don't speak the language, and don't remember the culture is the height of cruelty. These are bad policies and need to be stopped immediately. These things are a direct result of Reagan's stupidity, which has been compounded by subsequent administrations rather than abolished like it should have been.

We also need to protect jobs for US workers since those jobs are dwindling. Any employer found to staff any facility with a large number of undocumented workers (meatpacking industry, I'm looking at you) should be heavily fined. Americans will gladly do those jobs if they pay wages Americans can live on. They can choose between paying Americans or paying huge fines every year.

When a poor country is next door to a rich one, there will always be people who need to make a little money who will cross that border without state sanction. It's just one of those facts of life, like country people going to shantytowns in cities, hoping to do better than subsistence farming. The better idea is to make it easier for them to go home when the time comes. Thanks to Reagan's stupid ass policy, they came here with kids and put down roots, knowing they'd probably never get to go home. We need to protect those people. Thanks to our stupidity, they're ours now.

[truebluegreen]

17. A million times this

The closed border is what really kicked this problem into high gear. That, and NO enforcement on illegal hiring.

[mvd]

19. Good post

Changing the closed border policy is an excellent idea.

[Blue_true]

12. My ideas.

Issue work visas so that people can work and go back home knowing that they could come back to work.

Work with our neighbors on human rights issues.

Legalize and regulate drugs to reduce the influence of cartels.

[awesomerwb]

14. The gang of eight bill

Legalize immigrants who haven't committed violent crimes (there are laws in trhe books about who is deportable and who is inadmissible due to crimes).

The gang of eight had a pathway to citizenship and it was a very long one. Ten years on some type of permit, then it was 3 or 5 years on a green card and then citizenship. Plus fines plus back taxes.

11,000,000 times a $1,000 fine= $11 billion.... plus other fees....lots of money.

We need workers as the population ages. A lot of the jobs people claim american workers would do have high turnover ratios as it is, and higher wages will bankrupt lots of small businesses. Laughable to think Americans will take those jobs. Low pay, no benefits, riiiight.

[grantcart]

18. Four points

1) Over a 12 month period all undocumented aliens would report by breaks in the alphabet to CIS offices and register.

Aliens that have been in the country for more than 3 years would enter into a protected status that would allow them to apply for permanent residence. Aliens who have been here 3 years or less would have to return to their home country but would get an opportunity to apply for a visa.

2) Temporary Work Program

We would establish temporary work programs for workers in certain industries. One hundred percent of the agriculture workers in Israel, for example, come from Thailand.

These programs are established through the International Organization for Migration (which I worked for in the 1980s). In order to apply applicants have to have a bond, say $ 10,000. For indigent families bonds can be arranged by having family members split up the bond.

The workers are given temporary residence with a maximum of 2 years. The agency hiring them is liable for

a) housing
b) medical
c) minimum wage - although most will exceed it through production bonuses
d) the money that is deducted for social security is paid into the equivalent national retirement fund in their home country.

One third of the wage is retained and paid to the workers bank account on the day that they return to their home country.

There are zero problems with workers in these countries because they are well paid and the incentive is to go back home where they can reapply for the next season. Workers want to return home get their money visit their families and keep their record clean so that they can stay in the program.

3) Aliens with felony convictions (except for those that are the result of over charging (like the woman in Phoenix who had a felony conviction for a SS number must return to their home countries, including felony DUI. If they are non violent felonies they would be eligible to reapply from their home countries.

4) All aliens who are detained trying to enter the country from this point on would not be eligible for the temporary worker program for 2 years. Aliens who enter attempting to bring in drugs would get a minimum 6 month prison term.

Now for the reality: There are already in place in other countries temporary worker programs that address the needs that some of our industries, like agriculture, have. The problem isn't in establishing the programs it is the political will of the country to address the problem.

[hunter]

20. Comfortable living wages and very strict labor law enforcement would solve all the problems.

If undocumented workers couldn't be abused it wouldn't make any difference where they came from. They are already contributing more to our economy than they take out.

There have been times in our history when even internal U.S. citizen economic refugees have been treated like shit.

In California Okie wasn't a term of endearment. During the Great Depression California law enforcement officers and private security firms would wait at the border and assault any indigent single men they regarded as undesirables, in efforts to turn them away. Indigent Dust Bowl refugee families were not welcomed.



With Trump as President it's not hard to imagine the U.S. economy turning to shit and other nations turning away or abusing our economic refugees just as we have abused theirs.

Even today the walls we are building to keep others out are becoming the walls that keep us in.

[UTUSN]

23. The "bracero" program of the (1950s? 1960s), permits for labor

Sometimes problems are solved, but then the solutions are forgotten.

[Warpy]

29. Absolutely, until some fucking dimwit Republican comes along

and tries to solve something that isn't a problem.

The Bracero program worked for everybody. Farmers got their laborers, families got to stay home in Mexico, and workers went home every winter with enough money in their pockets to care for their families. Yes, there were a few problems but nothing like we have now.

Reagan screwed it up completely by his "closed border" program.

[fun n serious]

26. I support Open borders.

I know most people are not as progressive as me on this issue but that is my stance.

[dchill]

28. +1000

[hunter]

36. Nationalism has a lot in common with racism.

The most virulent nationalists are often virulent racists too.

[fun n serious]

37. I totally agree.

I think I am more progressive than Obama on this issue.

[dchill]

27. Ideally, it's something like this,

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

—Emma Lazarus, 1883

[RoadhogRidesAgain]

30. One of the few issues where both sides have legitimate concerns

I think it's an issue that can be compromised with republicans (unlike health care and taxes)

I would like the majority of illegal immigrants already here to recieve residency and a path way to citizenship as long as they have been here a while and have no criminal record, and afterwards start a crackdown on further newly arrived illegal immigrants and also taking care of the root problem and punishing those who hire them and enforcing e-verify nationally.

[loyalsister]

31. Lots of good suggestions in this thread

I'm mostly a free border thinker. But, I can respect the desire for some limits. Regardless, I think the policy should prioritize family reunification where it is possible and desirable.

[enid602]

32. immigrants

National Identity Card for all. Path to citizenship for those who want it. Work permits for those who don't. All work on the table, and taxable. Things you'll NEVER see Republicans go for.

[sarah FAILIN]

34. In before the terminology police..

At some point, someone is going to get in here and insist that you edit your post and avoid using the word illegal. My position is that it is what it is. People can't guilt anyone into making them more legal by using a different word to describe their status. The real issue is how do we treat them, not what to call them but it is still a thing...

Personally I don't want kids afraid to go to school for fear their parents will be caught. If you are working and supporting yourself with verifiable employment, I think you should get to stay.

[mvd]

38. I thought about that

But if I used "immigration," I think I would rightfully get a lot of complaints that I was too broad. Lots of good ideas here IMO. I can see the arguments of being more lenient than even the Obama administration was.

[Caliman73]

35. We also have to address the root causes of migration

I think one or two posters touched on the issue.

We have to remember that people are leaving their homes, everything that they have known, all of the people (family & friends), their language and culture, everything... to take a dangerous journey where they can be abused and possibly killed. They come here without any guarantee that things will work out once they arrive.

Why would people do that? It does not seem logical to take that risk.

We need to help to find that answer and also answer to what extent US foreign policy (military, trade, etc..) or domestic policies (Drug War & labor, trade etc...) have helped to create conditions which facilitate people in calculating those risks and coming up with the idea that making that trip is better than what life is like at home.

Granted, we will always have people who are just restless and in pursuit of "better", but I am thinking that we are not getting people who are doing well in their home countries and are just "adventurers". We are likely getting people who figure they know they and/or their families will be dead for sure if they stay, and "maybe" if they go.

That will have to be a part of any immigration solution as well.

[Luz]

39. Don't assume everyone here illegally wants permanent

citizenship. Some of them just want to work then go back home. Migrant workers program.

[NCTraveler]

40. Man the borders, seaports, underground and air...

Utilizing a push to increase our national guard.

Give all people in the US the opportunity to apply for citizenship over a six month period of time. Once being cleared by the intelligence community they are givin a pathway to citizenship that lasts no more than six months. All of those not registering are criminal elements at that point. Aggressively go after them. Continue enhanced border patrol using funds from the MIC.