General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust wanted to post this.I have a been an auto workers wife for years. We are headed for recession.
Hubs is an engineer. He retired early and now has a job that makes parts for autos but other things as well...My son went into the autos on the line ...never really liked school. He is very smart though. He was laid off in Ohio in February...car not selling. He got a different job still in Ohio about an hour away, he got laid off before his start day. I have seen this before. Autos always signal the beginning of recession...and they are the first to signal when it is over...batton down the hatches and get ready we are headed for recession with the GOP in charge God help us. Good luck.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)The Great Recession killed auto sales. After awhile cars wore out so people had to replace their old cars. So zillions of cars were bought, happy days on the assembly lines. But now everyone has a car that's not that old so new car sales will decline for a few years. This may be limited to autos.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)There are layoffs coming... and not just in autos...prepare as best you can. Before 2000 ,we had rules that were written during the depression...Glass Steagall and the bucket laws in all 50 states. Until those laws were passed, there was a 'panic' every 8 to10 years or so..they didn't use the word panic in the beginning of the depression for fear of frightening people...I have seen this before. It is coming...if we had decent leadership, we might stop itor get through it with a minimum of pain, but with Trump in the White house and the repugs in charge, there is no hope of that.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)I don't doubt without auto pulling us back from the brink...we would have gone over the economic cliff.
Moostache
(10,043 posts)It was NOT the housing market crash...THAT crash was built into the system through imprudent and fraudulent lending practices (NinJa loans? - No Income, No Job ...give them a variable teaser rate and set the bomb into motion), but what triggered the collapse was the rise in gas prices and oil speculation that had driven the cost of a gallon of gas above $5.00 in many places around the country...
We are lulled back to sleep by the recently stable prices for oil and gas - prices move seasonally and slightly up and down, but generally stay well below the $4 and $5 a gallon mark, and in many places it is at or even below $2 a gallon. When the price of gas spikes, it triggers the fear that drives a recession. Recessions are not based on any single factor, they are marked by a draw down in spending from consumers who lose confidence in their ability to afford things into the future. When gas jumps up, it hurts the average person a thousand times more than the rich or even the middle class. A rise from $2.10 a gallon to $3.00 a gallon on a car with a 20 gallon tank and and average MPG of 22 can mean a HUGE difference in the spending capability of someone on the lower end of the economic scale...but that has an enormous ripple effect...
When someone's disposable income feels like its being cut drastically by a 25% rise in the cost of gas, they notice the other price rises (in milk and dairy products or beef) a lot more and their emotions are frayed and fear sets in.
Back in the start of the Great Recession, gas prices when stratospheric in the months before the loans that seemed to have ensnared millions began to default. Part of that was coincidence with the reset of the interest rates and subsequent rise in monthly payments and part of it was the initial kick that started the downward spiral of many of the most vulnerable loans - the ones that never should have been granted in the first place, the most predatory of the bunch. I do not for one second discount the potential signals of trouble in the auto sector as a harbinger of trouble ahead...after all, we have experienced nearly 8 straight years of positive economic growth, even if the gains from this remain concentrated in the top 1%. I just hope that the banks have not cooked up another nasty little surprise for us all in addition to it!
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)and they are at it again.
notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)The sharply rising gas prices. I remember the embargo..probably helped carter lose.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)They took equipment and shipped it to Mexico and cut jobs too.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)That's the real reason for attacking environmental regs. to free up the markets for more oil and coal. Investors will flock to oil again, prices will go up and there you have it.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)bring about a recession which almost became a depression.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)don't have a lot, but I've been trading, as a hobby, for 30 years. I recemtly went to the side lines or I'm in places I can get out fast.
It amazes me that this market really wants to go up.
If DT can get through a day without several major screwups, it rallies. No other prez could do that. It rallies because of Deregulation and hoped for tax cuts. Plus, he put boatloads of the bigwigs on Wall Street on his advisory boards.
Anyway, I would keep a close eye on my nest egg. He isn't bringing in the goods that Repubs want...big productions of him signing his steak menu bound executive orders... followed by being shot down. Plus. Intetest rates are about to start flying up, which means it will cost a lot more to service the national debt. It will cost a lot more for debt ridden companies to service their own debt...energy and related. For individuala with dent too, middle class and working poor, they have a lot of credit card debt which paid for medical bills. Those indicators could change. I think you are seeing the canary start to cough though.
You are right on, from a market analysis point of view, the transportation index is one of the first and key indicators of a direction change.
Thanks again for the info.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Will be impacted by increasing intetest rates, which in turn, will impact the national debt and the economy.
.which will impact YOU, and all of us, anyway.
Canoe52
(2,962 posts)and put them in long term savings at the bank.
Not that we had a lot (mid 5 figures) but we don't want to take a chance on donnie crashing things.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)With my small amount. A very good option trader was advising talking money off, as there were just too many questions in Wash.w this Prez. Some less experienced laughed him off, but he just stood silent.
Warpy
(112,789 posts)as people start to tighten their belts and prepare for tougher times. A Republican is in office, so people do know what to expect and recession is the least of the options.
The only question is how bad it's going to be. We all know it's coming.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)You make do with the old one...and when things get better autos boom because there is a pent up demand.
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)Sounds alot like my brother-smart but no interest in higher educ.Had a long career as a contractor-built 2nd homes .2 yrs. ago called it quits and enrolled in college (2 yrs. left ).My brothers 59 yrs. old-you never know.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)he has to go back to school. He is a saver and we will help him. School is a good place to wait out recession. There are 4000 laid off in Ohio and more coming.
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)that's 4000 families affected .And more to come... heartbreaking.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)4000 are temps many of then long term...they are now gone. No one knows if more people will go or what the situation will be...my son got married in October...first real crisis they faced...I am glad I can help them.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)But the plant has been idle for over a month now. May not come back until it gets a new product. And there was a big layoff of Temp workers in September.
MichMan
(12,616 posts)The Lordstown situation is due to people not buying the car assembled there. Other auto plants are still doing well.
While everyone expects sales to soften, they are still at very high levels.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)sales are slipping...I have seen this before. We are headed for recession.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/09/01/general-motors-ford-motor-fiat-chrysler-august-2016-auto-sales/89708826/
MichMan
(12,616 posts)If you read the article you posted, all it says is that sales have slipped from the record levels of 17.5 million set in 2015. Even if there is some softening, sales are still strong compared to previous years
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)not doing well too. Google auto worker layoffs, we are heading towards recession. Car sales are softening.
I've seen it before.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)We have been through this...in 08 we lost our college fund, and almost lost our cars and house...we owed the IRS thousands because we have to dip in retirement. We had moved twice in one year before hubs got laid off...we went to Janesville and then Ohio. I hate to see my son having to go through this...part of me wishes he will let us help him and find a new career.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Here in Vegas we have the largest used car Auction Facilities in the Nation. Yesterday we were in the area on business,holy cow,the Yards are loaded. Have not seen that many cars and various Trucks since 2008. What is compounding this is,the Rental Car Companies are rotating their Inventory for more Customer desired Products. SUV's ,and Rag Tops seems to be the new trend. BTW,UBER is raising hell with the Auto
Leasing and Sales.
MANative
(4,129 posts)would like to admit. I personally know a good handful of millennials who aren't buying cars - they Uber to everywhere. Read something in the last few days that Uber's CEO was touting that their service goal was to eliminate the need for people buying cars, especially in more urban areas. Sorry, don't remember exactly where I saw that.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Their Car only used for out of town runs. Most of our Services are within 8-10 blocks and here in Clark County we pay mega rates for Auto Insurance as well as Registration Fees.
We just started using Uber recently and love it. All one has to do is plan your trips.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)It should not be to millennials, but instead they should market to their parents, and especially their grandparents. Use Uber to take Grandma to the dr and grocery shopping.
I've used it twice (company paid) and it is no different than a taxi. I don't get the appeal (I don't have the app on my phone).
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Seniors should be the major target.
Le Gaucher
(1,547 posts)I live in the NJ suburbs of NYC .. a cab involves a 20-30 minute wait and costs about 30 dollars. After uber - I have never waited for more than 7-8 minutes and my cab fare is usually 9 -12 dollars.
Uber is single biggest reason why I have put off buying a second car.
But I havent used them after they tried to sidestep the Taxi strike (during Trump's Travel ban)
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)Uber's business model is to keep fares low until the taxi business completely collapses; then Uber's fares will skyrocket. They and a few other ride share companies will be the only game in town.
Uber will have their monopoly and consumers will have far fewer choices. Many people will be perfectly fine with that, but I won't be
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)What with student debt and low paying jobs, many of these kids are being screwed over.
MANative
(4,129 posts)Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)Good auto jobs for every one job they support 11 other jobs...from parts to mom and pop diners.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)those needing a car will look to that market.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Know someone on the inside and he is having a tough time making the numbers. Leaser Returns and Corporate push on unwanted styles and models is the Sales Managers nightmare.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)south about two years ago. Did you notice liar Trump is not using American steel for the pipelines and less than 50 jobs for US workers. Part of the problem for the youngins is older people can't retire...in past years, my husband would have had a decent pension and free healthcare or close to it...he would not have continued working...thus freeing up a job for a younger workers.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,500 posts)I hauled cars for over ten years and have been to both the Mannheim and Adesa auctions in Vegas and trust me, they are no larger than many others across the nation. Hell, the Mannheim facility in Denver is almost 4/5's of a mile by just under a half mile in size - not a small lot by any means and the Adesa yard in Tracy, CA is a full mile from the front gate to the back fence.
I've been to really BIG auction yards. They ain't in Vegas.
And FWIW, when you see an auction yard "loaded" it is likely just the days before, during or after the large weekly sale. Come back in 3 days and see how many units are there at that time.
The "rotating" you referred to is not uncommon, it happens with remarkable regularity and those units will wash through the system in a matter of weeks. Also, when the rental car companies send units to auction, they need to be replaced, as you indicate, which is GOOD for the manufacturers.
None of this is to discount the concerns of the OP, but the used car business is a different animal from new production and does not necessarily follow the trends of plant closings, etc.
MichMan
(12,616 posts)I heard a discussion about this just this morning on the radio. A lot of cars purchased when gas prices were higher and now coming off lease and people prefer Trucks, SUV and Crossovers. That means that used car prices have dropped while used Truck & SUV prices are strong.
Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)desirable models. Trucks and SUV's are carrying the day. Could not believe the going prices on these rigs.
Pharlo
(1,831 posts)Record low numbers of dry goods on the seas. Last time it was similar to these numbers was during 2008.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)every 8 to 10 years until we go back to regulating banking.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And all out looting and thievery for the wall street gangsters.
When will the average voter ever understand??????
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)deplorable
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)Pres. Obama was never allowed to put any real safeguards into the system.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)brush
(56,341 posts)Dems pull us out of them then repug policies favoring the anti-regulation and the rich pull us back in.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)I can't believe Trump was elected after what Bush did in 08.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)I say get rid of the filibuster so when we get back in power we can put a glass-steagall type legislation in place and we can bring back the bucket laws which would damp down the gambling on Wall Street.
wishstar
(5,475 posts)All this Trump budget talk about cutting Federal grant money that goes to programs like Meals on Wheels and heating assistance for seniors is hopefully dead on arrival, because all it would do is take resources from neediest individuals and causing states and local communities to have to spend more to make up difference.
Thankfully ACA is still law of land for now because repeal and replace with millions losing coverage would cause massive layoffs of health care workers and also in construction from planned expansions of hospitals and clinics. But there is still uncertainty with Repubs predicting implosion and promising repeal and replace, so their rhetoric could slow down growth in health care industry.
.
I noticed last year going around with friends looking at cars, that dealers weren't moving the new cars. I live in an area with very strong economy. Dealer gave my friend amazingly high trade-in on her old car and great deal on new car. Since then, interest rates have gone up about half a point more, making the cars more expensive. Hopefully gas prices will remain low and we won't have an international crisis.
The predicted closure of over 4,000 major dept stores and probably couple thousand smaller stores this year is bad sign too.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)This was a 40 cents increase ....why?
pansypoo53219
(21,504 posts)facts. hoover is in charge, but stupid hoover.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)My sis swears the do it because there are a bunch of retirees coming... lambs for the Wall Street wolves.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]My dad worked for one of the Big 3 automakers for 40 years and always said the same thing: The first sign of a recession or depression coming is when cars stop selling.
It's not just the auto plants themselves, but all the smaller companies that provide parts and the dealers, as well. Cars stop selling, production slows down or stops, layoffs begin, and the ripple effect is felt nationwide.
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TexasBushwhacker
(20,591 posts)If people are already not buying enough cars, they'll buy even fewer when the higher cost of Mexican imports raises sticker prices.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)And there is no doubt the rich screwed us with trade. And it hurt the country everywhere, but particularly in the rust belt...But I tried to tell my neighbors trade is complicated and yes we need to encourage manufacturing of say green stuff and other things here, but the idea that ending NAFTA will sold our problems is not true. Hillary had a manufacturing plan to encourage this in our country...pretty sure Bernie did too...and that is what we need to do...figure out how and to bring if not the old jobs back then new jobs...the money has always been in manufacturing...and now we have Hyundai and Kia in the south; they are literally killing people with unsafe plants and paying low wages too...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/03/bride-to-be-crushed-to-death-by-car-factory-robot.html
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]We've got to clean house in 2018 if we're to correct course.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,591 posts)would have been lost anyway, either to China or to improvements in technology. What is never brought up in the whole "NAFTA is bad" narrative is that exports have increased to Mexico because those factory jobs help move Mexican workers into the middle class, increasing the demand for American goods. That demand for American goods has created jobs here. It's hard to say what the net is, jobs lost vs. jobs created, but many economists think it's a small net positive.
If all those factories making goods to send to the US close down, what happens to those workers? Well, plenty of them will come to the US. At the very least, the demand for American goods would go down, thus creating job losses in the US.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I've got a 2003 model that still runs very well with regular maintenance. Fingers crossed it lasts until we all get through this, because I couldn't afford a new car right now if I wanted to buy one.
I guess repair shops will be getting more business, at least. Maybe we'll start looking like Cuba, with our old cars held together by whatever means possible.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)My hubs worked for GM...son does too.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]And you. Best wishes to you all.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)they are getting out into the workplace, and it is really frightening.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Mine are both in good places - for now - but everyone has reason to be worried.
Our best hope is to reclaim Congress in 2018. As anger builds against this administration in particular and reTHUGs overall, I think it's very possible, but it's still going to take lots of work and a huge GOTV effort.
Maybe your kids can get involved in that, and help educate and motivate others in their age group. We need them all.
Javaman
(62,926 posts)I work for a large firm, 300 + people, the big jobs are drying up. lot's of smaller jobs coming in. this is how it started last time.
I worked through several recessions and the big recession. (luckily)
Same shit happened then that is happening now.
it's coming indeed.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)by the irresponsible GOP...they are so damn destructive.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)In O8 the GOP were on their way out;we have three years of a Repub even if Trump is impeached. I can't imagine he can handle this...they will loot this country along with the rest of them.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Good luck to you and your firm.
Bernardo de La Paz
(50,296 posts)A month ago, tourism bookings or searches (sorry, not sure which) were down over 6% already.
Tour operators won't need as many vehicles and can't afford to buy as many family cars.
So it goes.
mtngirl47
(1,047 posts)January to March have been good...but future reservations are lagging behind last year--but could be a result of the fires here last fall--everyone thinks we burned down.
Already tightening the belt...no major purchases or projects until I see what's up.
Gas prices at Memorial Day and occupancy will predict the summer months travel.
I knew electing Trump would cause a damn recession. The last recession almost killed me and as I move closer to 60, just don't want to freaking go through it again.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)I am sick of it...I knew Trump would damage the economy. I didn't realize he would do it so quickly...this is not Pres. Obama this is all Trump and the GOP who can't govern effectively and have economic policies guaranteed to fail.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)and rental agents buy cars...the fleet sales have dried up.
elmac
(4,642 posts)we are heading for another crash, consumer spending has hit the skids, housing bubble also. It won't be nice like before but baaaaaaad.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,591 posts)You can't have 7 years of growth without expecting a downturn sooner rather than later, no matter who's in the driver's seat.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)for Main Street.
Thekaspervote
(34,007 posts)We flew from the Midwest to Phoenix, az last week on alligiant. The flights are always full! The plane was maybe two thirds full. I agree, it's coming!
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)The layoffs in GM were announced the day after Trump won.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,273 posts)They are one of the canaries in the coal mine; when the economy starts to slide people do less discretionary traveling. It could be even worse this time as Trump is turning the US into an international pariah that nobody wants to visit even if they're not Muslims I had some airline stock, which had been doing well; I decided to sell it anyhow because I figured it would start to tank. Sure enough, it's gone down a fair bit since SCROTUS' inauguration. Watch that sector.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)full...she said only 2/3 full when she flew recently.
underpants
(185,330 posts)Thanks for the tip
MFM008
(19,960 posts)Markets and says it will be like 2008 soon.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)It is coming.
Dawson Leery
(19,358 posts)Donnie has allowed the finance charlatans to sell and invest in whatever they want, still I expect a mini bubble will take some time to build.
mahatmakanejeeves
(59,833 posts)Cross-posted in the Economy Group.
Access the article via the author's Twitter feed to beat TWSJ.'s paywall.
Looks like there is some work to do on the plan for Made in America car lots
Link to tweet
Mexico gains considerable regional share as production in the U.S. and Canada sags
By John D. Stoll
Updated March 27, 2017 12:33 p.m. ET
The prospect of lowering the U.S. auto industrys reliance on Made in Mexico became thornier during the Trump administrations early days, as the number of popular pickups and SUVs flooding in from south of the border rose sharply in January and February. ... Mexicos share of North American automotive production exceeded 20% through two months, gaining considerable regional share amid falling output in the U.S. and Canada over the same period. Analysts expect Mexicos role in the North American Free Trade Agreement zone to grow as most auto makers have capacity increases planned for Mexico.
Mexicos momentum comes early in the tenure of a Trump administration vowing to take actions aimed at slowing car and truck imports coming to the U.S., with specific emphasis on products made in Mexico. While vehicle imports from some major marketsincluding Canadadeclined in January compared with the same period a year earlier, the flow of Mexican-made vehicles increased 10%, according to U.S. trade data.
Mexico registered an unexpected trade surplus in February as growth in exports outpaced that of imports, thanks to higher oil prices and strong exports of manufactured goods. Auto exports, increasing 4.9%, were a contributing factor.
The data, published by WardsAuto.com, reveals General Motors Co., Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV, Nissan Motor Co. and Volkswagen AG scheduled significantly more Mexican light-truck production over the period, helping the countrys auto plants post output increases at a time when the wider North American auto industry is paring back. Many plants in the U.S. and Canada have dialed back production of less popular passenger cars, such as the Chevrolet Malibu, resulting in layoffs at certain factories.
....
Write to John D. Stoll at john.stoll@wsj.com
Appeared in the Mar. 28, 2017, print edition as 'Mexicos Vehicle Output Climbs.'
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)Mexico makes the hatchback model of the auto made here in Ohio...and just before the layoff , some were sold here.
Jimbo S
(3,003 posts)I know the off-road stuff has been down the last year or so. The passenger vehicles have been steady for us. The steel mills slumped a bit two summers ago but have stabilized.
I agree the auto industry is one of the three barometers of the economy. I'll keep your post in mind.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)He is hopeful he can get in at Tennessee...as they still have Temp workers there...it will be a while before we know...couple of months...no one will be moved during that time.
roamer65
(36,905 posts)Velocity of Money is basically a measurement of how fast a dollar changes hands. Money has to "move" in order to generate economic activity. The faster a dollar "moves", the faster the economy grows.
It took a HUUUGE drop after 2008 and still has not recovered.
Even with the near quadrupling of the M1 money supply from $900BLN to $3.2TLN, the velocity of money measurement still has not recovered.
If it doesn't, we are still in for a rough ride.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)inflation...there is no inflation which indicates we are still stuck in a deflationary economy...
roamer65
(36,905 posts)Just not as high as we saw pre-2008. We are seeing more "disinflation" than "deflation". It didn't go to outright deflation due to the massive quantitative easing.
raccoon
(31,359 posts)Who am I going to believe, government stats or my lying eyes?
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)We have been in a deflationary cycle since 2008 mostly.Given the amount of money the Fed has pumped in that is somewhat frightening...while somethings have indeed gone up that has more to do with raising prices in order profit...all deflationary means is things depreciate...for example housing in much of the US has not recovered or increased in value, And Japan for at least a decade,they have been in a deflationary cycle...now this year it looked like it would finally end. In fact they raised the interest rate. However, it is a projection and it doesn't look like it will happen...not with Drumpt in my opinion. Also, the interest rate was raised in part so they have something they can use if things go south which it looks like they will...I hope I am wrong.
"Annual inflation for the 12 months ending in February 2017 was 2.74% up from 2.50% in January and 2.07% in December 2016. The annual cyclical low was 0.84% in July 2016. The longer term cyclical low of -0.20% was in April of 2015.
Although this may look like the beginning of a longer upward trend it is still possible that it is simply a function of the short-term cyclical rise since inflation is still below the upper limit of the downward trend channel. Looking back we see that January and February 2016 were both very low on a historical basis which removed 2 major components of the annual inflation rate for the entire year of 2016, which kept a lid on inflation for the entire year."
https://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation/AnnualInflation.asp
Xolodno
(6,602 posts)If you know someone in that line of work, they can often tell you they know something is up.
But, we are coming due for a correction. I suspect it will be mild as 45 hasn't had enough time to do any damage structurally. I wouldn't be surprised they also use it to their advantage for dropping taxes and increased spending.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)Calculating
(2,993 posts)Seems like there are plenty of cars out there right now, and most people who want one already have one. Give it a few years and see if demand for cars picks back up as the ones on the road get reduced through wear and collisions.
samplegirl
(11,907 posts)Awful I know as I to live in Ohio and I also blame the idiots in Ohio that voted Trump!!!
I just lost my job!
Hekate
(93,581 posts)doc03
(36,243 posts)for the last few weeks, Macys, Kmart, Radio Shack, Penney's, HH Gregg, Staples, Game Stop, Sears,
Elder Bearman and The Gap. Our local mall looks liked a ghost town the last few weeks.
Oneironaut
(5,727 posts)My fear, though, is that Trump overreacts and does something stupid, making it 100x worse than it needs to be. An example of this would be blaming the closing stores on the Chinese and imposing a tariff on them. China retaliates, and a trade war starts. At least Obama made good decisions (and dare I say Bush was at least somewhat trustworthy).
elleng
(134,780 posts)Nothing new here.
Demsrule86
(70,660 posts)elleng
(134,780 posts)Cha
(302,810 posts)Orrex
(63,749 posts)malaise
(275,410 posts)Link to today's 98,000 jobs' report