The data suggests up to thirty percent of Americans have authoritarian tendencies.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Homophobia, xenophobia, nativism, racism et cetera are characteristics of authoritarianism. To suggest many Trump voters don't hold these views is ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst. It's not contingent on the messenger.

[mopinko]

1. we treat kids like cattle, then we are surprised

when all they can do is mooooo.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Kind of sad that thirty percent of Americans couldn't care less about living in a democracy...

Kind of sad that thirty percent of Americans couldn't care less about living in a democracy , even a flawed one.

[Major Nikon]

3. If you don't love it, leave it

[Orrex]

4. I don't know that it's that simple

Many of us here at DU were similarly "treated like cattle," whether we're Boomers, Gen-Xers or the much-maligned Millennials. Yet somehow we managed to come out of it with anti-authoritarian tendencies of varying strength. How did we get it right?

It seems too facile to blame it on kids being herded into totalitarianism. Otherwise, is it likely that 70% or more would somehow overcome that training?

[mopinko]

5. thank dr spock.

he advocated for the humanity of children, which many boomer parents took to heart => hippies.

i always wondered how much blame the german harsh parenting methods of the early part of the last century led to the "good germans". a lot of that spread to this country via great respect for the german nannies that the rich were importing in large numbers.

teaching to the test allowed the deplorables to just parrot what they were told w no critical thinking.

i think that how we treat children is how we make the world.

[Orrex]

6. Then what's the explanation?

If this is a nearly universal phenomenon, then why does it fail to brainwash more than 7 out of 10? What secret talisman are these majority non-authoritarians clutching to ward off such creeping indoctrination?

And how does this intersect with studies suggesting something different in the "wiring" of Conservative vs. Liberal brains?

[mopinko]

8. well it is a sticky thing, and i dont claim to have solid evidence.

just a long running interest in the subject as the mother of 5.

but i do know that brain wiring is a function of childhood experience. prenatal, to a large extent. violence and stress in pregnancy leads to a very different sort of wiring than love and plenty. just that right there, if we wanted to actually change the future, is a big key.
if we want a more peaceful future, we value every pregnant woman. i have long said that it is cheaper to give every pregnant woman a steak dinner every night of her pregnancy than it is to try to undue the damage that food insecurity leads to. 1 or 2 premies cost more than that would.
but we dont value every pregnant woman. if we did, wic could be spent on prepared food, within certain limits.

and i can say that a lot of the homeschool movement is based on just my premise- ask them about "socialization" and they will tell you that what that word really means is not about having buddies in the sandbox, but about following rules, walking in straight lines and basically being seen and not heard. being members of a herd.

not every parent goes along w the way kids are treated. that is why it isnt universal.

[Orrex]

11. Value pregnant women? In America? Surely you must be daft!

but i do know that brain wiring is a function of childhood experience. prenatal, to a large extent. violence and stress in pregnancy leads to a very different sort of wiring than love and plenty. just that right there, if we wanted to actually change the future, is a big key.
if we want a more peaceful future, we value every pregnant woman. i have long said that it is cheaper to give every pregnant woman a steak dinner every night of her pregnancy than it is to try to undue the damage that food insecurity leads to. 1 or 2 premies cost more than that would.
but we dont value every pregnant woman. if we did, wic could be spent on prepared food, within certain limits.

I disagree with none of that.

and i can say that a lot of the homeschool movement is based on just my premise- ask them about "socialization" and they will tell you that what that word really means is not about having buddies in the sandbox, but about following rules, walking in straight lines and basically being seen and not heard. being members of a herd.

Yeah, well. That's one take, I suppose. In real life I know a dozen or so adults who were home-schooled, about 9 of whom are strongly religious, acutely prejudiced, and wholly pro-authoritarian. Not a large or ultimately representational sample, but take it for what it's worth.

Honestly, I'm as inclined to blame American religion as any sort of scholastic or commercial factor. A wide swath of Christianity demands that its adherents obey without question, and this indoctrination begins before children can walk or speak.

[mopinko]

18. no argument there. xtian homeschoolers are a different thing altogether, tho

i have met a couple of them who survived, and grew. that stuff is a different thing. still many are


by the dedication that they parents show to take on that task. as misguided as it often is, it is an act of great love.

i guess i should have stipulated that i am talking about lefty homeschoolers who are a different cat alllllltogether.

i agree, religion is a curse, and stomps out the consciences of many. i was raised a catholic, but fortunately also raised by parents that would likely not have really described themselves as liberal. but they respected others, felt they were lucky, being 1st/2nd gen immigrants. they never looked down their noses, or judged anybody.
sort of included us kids in that. we may have pulled typical kid shit, and they may have kicked our butts for it, but it never diminished their view of us as precious beings that they were entrusted to care for.

and that there is what i have in common w many hs'ers from both camps. the absolute awe w which we see these little beings which have populated our lives.

[LiberalLoner]

15. Great post.

I just read this great book "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" about addiction that talks a lot about the formation of the brain and plasticity in early years and what happens when infants and children don't get the nurturing they need.

[Hortensis]

7. Mopinko, we now know conservatism is genetically linked,

and of course also acted on by environment, and authoritarianism strongly correlates to various degrees with most types of conservatives, and also to a somewhat lesser extent far-left personalities.

Notably, a hugely important characteristic of authoritarians is that, once having chosen a leader, they set their consciences aside in favor of the leaders'. That "just following orders" thing, and if public schools created that, we'd all grow up to crave strong leaders, the security of orders to follow, and belief in the need for strong punitive measures against disobedience.

But those of us you'd expect wouldn't don't. Despite all that obedience training in school.

Btw, disposition to liberal and conservative personality types can be reliably identified in young children. (There is no "moderate" personality type, just more and less moderate versions of the others.)

[mopinko]

19. agree and disagree.

my kids, w/o a doubt, were very much themselves on the day they were born.
but whatever the wiring you are born w (influenced as it is by the prenatal environment) when they live a childhood full of trauma and indoctrination, many will crack.

it is just not as simple as genetics. one thing that science is now teaching us is the variability of genetic expression. it is a complex dance.

the nurtured fair well, the broken, not so much.

[Hortensis]

21. It's not as simple as you put it either.

And who said it was as simple as genetics. But that has a lot to do with response to nurturing or lack of it and fragility or lack of it.

The point is, personality, both inborn and environmentally formed, has a huge role in politics, and analyses that do not take it into account are kind of like sports announcers who've yet to be introduced to the concept of gravity. All kinds of clever and involved explanations about why the ball keeps coming down would be offered, and all deeply clueless.

Btw, inborn personality traits help explain why schools seemingly fail so badly in teaching people to think. They actually do far better than generally assumed, but they can't force those not naturally inclined to keep thinking analytically once they graduate, any more than they can require them to continue to vet their sources for a factual reliability they simply don't care about.

Btw, conservatives and liberals process information in different order--conservatives send it for emotional reaction before what we think of as "intellectual" processing, vice versa for liberals. Also greatly simplified, but maybe a little light flashes on at what that might have to do with what the right's come to?

[mopinko]

22. ya know, until you see a child who is raised free

you dont know how it works. my kids taught me a lot about how humans are formed. some went to school early, some went late.
my son was clearly working out his own program, and i tried to just feed it.
he grew up to be not only crazy smart, but a staunch liberal, as all 5 did.

it is a truly sticky wicket, but this much we know-
treat them like cattle, take away their ability to follow their own curiosity, and the stupid follows. treat them like the special individuals they are, enlightenment remains possible.

[Hortensis]

23. Your kids sound great, but no.

Good education can further develop what the student brings, fail to, even suppress it, but poor education won't destroy a person's own capacity for enlightenment as you put it.

How nice at this time that all 5 are liberal, btw. Too many stories of relatives becoming estranged, far more no doubt merely becoming polite.

[mopinko]

24. poor education is not just some sort of null setting.

factory schooling gone wrong w does real damage. what you are saying is that no lasting damage can be done. minds that are not nurtured at all will suffer in their very growth and structure. that is a fact, and tho we arent very good at measuring that, it exists.
kids spend enough of their lives in school that it shapes their lives and their minds. the cream doesnt always rise to the top. the kids dont always outgrow the harms. their brains are still quite plastic.
hell, making teens fight their own body clocks does immeasurable damage in vulnerable kids. it causes depression that many do not even survive.

and unfortunately the kids who need good schools the most get the worst schools.

[Hortensis]

30. Sure, it's possible to do lasting damage, especially

if that is defined as failing to help brains develop to their fullest capacity. Or if a stick or vicious criticism are used too much. And, as you say, those children who need special help often never overcome the effects of not receiving it.

[sl8]

9. What is "up to thirty percent"? 29%? 5%? .001?

Also, to which data are you referring?

Thank you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. ...

Polling data suggests roughly 18 to 30 percent of Americans fall into this camp, and that more can be swayed to support political “strong men” when they feel under threat. There are authoritarians across the political spectrum, and political scientist Marc Hetherington found that in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary, authoritarians favored Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-02-25/got-authoritarian-streak-study-says-odds-are-youre-trump

[sl8]

14. Good article; thanks. n/t

[cwydro]

10. Lol, I've seen those tendencies exhibited right here on DU.

Sad, but true.

[ananda]

13. And they are not exclusively conservative.

Many liberals have these tendencies too... but many also don't.

We need the ones that don't to guide us; and the ones that do to
get the Reeps in line.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. If a person hold those beliefs they can say they are liberal but they aren't.

It would be like someone who says he or she is a vegan and eats steak.

[Hortensis]

31. "Many liberals" emphatically do NOT have these tendencies.

Last edited Mon Apr 3, 2017, 03:38 PM - Edit history (2)

Authoritarianism is seen, yes, in some on the far left. HOWEVER, researchers do not find it in liberals, and authoritarianism overall is by far strongest and most widespread on the right.

Social scientists discovered authoritarianism when researching how educated, mostly Christian white people from an advanced nation could be turned in a short period of time to condone, and even participate in, genocide. What they found again and again is a tendency to turn to and obey strong leaders among conservatives, especially strong social and religious conservatives.

Most dangerously, after choosing a leader, authoritarians turn over questions that should be decided by their own consciences to that leader to decide as part of setting themselves to being good, loyal followers. All issues of right and wrong are settled in the initial choice and basically not questioned after. Horrifying.

And, yes, from what I've read 30% sounds about right for most of the time. In times of danger, though, the appeal of and willingness to follow authoritarian leaders shoots up, sometimes way up. Such as after 9/11, when the NY-based MSM set itself to making the entire nation regard the very real danger to NYC as something that could happen to them all. Fear and insecurity in general strengthen both conservative and authoritarian tendencies.

This is why we have to worry about which authoritarian leaders are presented to the right next time, and especially about efforts to draw support from the far left. The Koch group are already busily wooing the far left.

Btw, regarding the irresponsible, ignorant use of labels in these articles, although there are both right and left-wing forms of fascism, which all require authoritarian leaders and followers, note that there literally is no such thing as liberal fascism. An oxymoron. Liberals are humanity's predominant anti-authoritarians and anti-fascists.

[Yo_Mama]

17. Problem is, they're not all on the right by a long shot.

I see diminishing support for a government of laws rather than men among people of all political bents.

It's as if hopelessness is pushing individuals to extremes.

[BainsBane]

25. +1

[Coventina]

27. Exactly, just ask Stalin. N/T

[ProudLib72]

20. It explains why tRump's supporters

also profess their love for Putin.

[meow2u3]

26. K&R for exposure

Authoritarians are a clear minority of Americans, but they seem to have outsized power, especially in deep red states.

[CrispyQ]

28. I've found the ones who object loudest to the 'nanny state'

are also the ones most likely to support authoritarian figures.

[Act_of_Reparation]

29. 77.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Including this one.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. I didn't make it up. I provided a citation.

Thanks for kicking my thread.