CNN: "How my daughter died from a simple case of the flu"

[still_one]

"I've cried more times today than I can count. You'd think by now, I could go days without crying, but I can't get over the guilt.
Shannon's only complaint was a sore throat. Her fever wasn't even scary.

.........

If I could just talk to her one last time. Tell her how sorry I am. Does she know? Can she see from heaven? I have mixed feelings about how things work up there, I just know they do.
Going through some books, I came across one of her homemade bookmarks she made, when she was little.
I got a card from the donation center. They're doing a curb pick up next week for "gently used clothing." I can't do it yet.

.......

Shannon chose not to get vaccinated. I wish she had.

If I had pushed her into getting a flu shot, then I wouldn't have the guilt about "what if."
What if the vaccine had given her a little extra control over the invasion? That's what the vaccine should do. While you can still get the flu even if you've had a flu shot, it can reduce the risk of serious illness and complications.
Please take the flu seriously.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/02/health/unseen-enemy-deadly-influenza-epidemic-gwen-zwanziger/index.html

[smirkymonkey]

1. K&R

[Hassin Bin Sober]

2. Wow. How sad.

[Mosby]

3. very sad, it's got to be horrible to lose a child

But people should do some research about getting the flu shot and decide for themselves whether it's necessary or not for them and their family. An emotional appeal like this should not substitute for facts.

[paleotn]

5. And those who chose not to put scores of other people at risk

not just themselves. Lots of people can't get vaccinated for various reasons beyond their control. Their very lives are dependent upon herd immunity. So instead of an emotional appeal, how about simple, f'ing morality.

[Mosby]

10. You're confusing flu shots with vaccines

I'm not suggesting that people should not be vaccinated.

[tammywammy]

12. What are you trying to say here? The flu shot is a vaccine. n/t

[Mosby]

14. the flu shot (vaccine) does not prevent the spread

Of influenza, there are not nearly enough people getting it. The government would have to require it in order to get to that 80% plus mark for "herd immunity" to be a factor.

Even then it might not help in any given year because they guess about the strains.

[Horse with no Name]

24. It lessens the numbers of people that get it

Therefore decreasing the risk of everyone getting it.

[elehhhhna]

31. I cannot believe that someone cannot figure this out. Thank you

[paleotn]

49. Bingo.

That math behind epidemiology is lost on some folks. Granted, it's not terribly intuitive, but is is what it is.

[paleotn]

48. You're joking, right?

Right? Hello. That was a joke, I hope.

[Orrex]

17. the anti-vax nutjobbery is nearly identical to anti-flu-vax nutjobbery

With the added nonsense of "I got the shot and got the flu anyway" or "I got the shot and it gave me the flu."

Barring some mitigating health condition, there is almost no good reason not to get the flu shot.

[paleotn]

50. No I'm not.

[still_one]

16. paleotn, you just made the most important point. herd immunity, and that is for the benefit of

those who are unable to be vaccinated because of allergies or other conditions

[Drahthaardogs]

6. The facts are before antibiotics influenza was #1 killer

In the world. The facts are the anti vaccine movement is bullshit. Bodybuilders call shit like that bro science and laugh at it.

The facts are unless you have an egg allergy or other extenuating situation, you should get a flu shot

[Iggo]

9. Thank you.

What I was gonna post would not have been helpful.

[Girard442]

15. Actually, influenza can't be treated with antibiotics.

Antibiotics may be given to prevent opportunistic infections, but if your problem is the flu, anitbios won't touch it. There's been some progress with antivirals, but the first and damn near the only bulwark we have against influenza is immunization.

If a flu virus like the 1918 one came around, it could very well be equally deadly in the 21st century.

[Orrex]

20. True, but...

The "standard" flu is plenty deadly already, and people use nonsense to justify their refusal to get the shot.

I work with an otherwise functional and intelligent person who refuses to get the shot because "I don't trust needles."

[Girard442]

22. Even if no cases of the flu were lethal, the shot would be a good idea.

The fact that you're more likely to die if you don't should really close the deal.

[Orrex]

23. I agree, and I get the shot every year.

Barring some mitigating health condition, there is no good reason not to do it.

And the much-touted Guillain–Barré syndrome is extremely rare, so that shouldn't dissuade anyone either.

[Luz]

59. My daughter developed GBS at 16 yrs old. Not due to

vaccine, but she can't take flu shots anymore.

[Orrex]

60. That absolutely sucks. I have a coworker with a similar experience. (nt)

[Mariana]

30. Influenza can'cst be treated with antibiotics.

The potentially deadly bacterial secondary infections that it can lead to, those can be treated with antibiotics. Many people killed by flu actually die from the secondary infections, not from the flu virus itself.

[Drahthaardogs]

44. Yes, but antibiotics greatly reduced secondary infection ( pneumonia)

Thus overall lowering the mortality of the flu

[Horse with no Name]

25. There is actually a flu shot now for people

Who are allergic to eggs.

[SharonAnn]

40. My doctor said it was pneumonia (which was often a result of things like the flu)

He said that when he was a medical resident in the 1950's, fully half of LA General Hospital was filled with pneumonia patients.

He taught me not to mess around with sinus infections, get them treated quickly, because they can end up killing you.

[MFM008]

4. In 1918

Everyone said " it's just the flu".
It's never" just " the flu.

[Mariana]

37. They did?

In 1918 everyone knew flu was dangerous and very early on they knew that this flu was particularly so. There were no antibiotics to treat secondary pneumonia, and most people probably had a family member who had died in one or another of the flu epidemics that came around. Authorities took steps to prevent its spread in 1918, schools were closed, public gatherings cancelled, etc. They failed because flu is so easily transmitted, but they did try. No one was sitting around saying, "It's just the flu."

[MFM008]

58. That after it began to kill

In waves.
Most people have a tendency to just blow off the seriousness of colds and flus.

In the book by John M. Barry
Called. " The Great Influenza" he devotes an entire
Chapter to " it's just the flu".
I highly recommend it.

[tblue37]

7. Flu kills approximately 36,000 people in the US each year.

[Mosby]

13. no, it doesn't.

The CDC lumps Influenza, Pneumonia and Influenza "like" symptoms together.

Further, the 36K number is an extrapolation, it's not based on actual data.

[Orrex]

21. What's an acceptable death toll, then? (edited)

Last edited Sun Apr 2, 2017, 03:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Actually, please disregard my question. It was poorly considered and unduly snarky.

[Squinch]

28. It's not a matter of an acceptable death toll. That number -something between 30,000 and 36,000

usually - is tossed around everywhere as the annual death toll from flu.

The issue is that number is simply not accurate, or even close, and has never been accurate or even close.

The poster was simply stating a fact. He/she should be able to do so without being accused of having a number that is an "acceptable death toll."

[Orrex]

34. Well, that's a fair point.

[Squinch]

36. OK, here's another one. Because flu deaths are lumped in with all other

respiratory deaths by the CDC and most other federally funded estimators (are we allowed to ask why that might be?) it is very difficult to get an accurate read on how many people really do die of the flu every year.

But the estimates are more in the neighborhood of high hundreds to low one thousands depending on the year - or about the same number of people as are killed by airplanes annually - and these deaths tend to have other factors in addition to the flu that contribute to the death.

I say this at the risk of being accused of saying that one thousand deaths is acceptable. That is not what I am saying. But I am saying that this is a very, very different story than the 30,000 fallacy that is very intentionally being pushed very hard.

[sweetroxie]

8. The flu shot frequently doesn't work

It's horrible to lose one's child. The flu shot is a very imperfect instrument and the CDC often gets it wrong. I know this personally as I just spent nearly a week being unable to breathe and was hospitalized with what they diagnosed as the flu. I had the flu shot. My flu seemed like a nothing burger to me before it triggered asthma and bronchitis and more. So the flu can kill--even after a flu shot. Sadly there are no guarantees in the world.

[randome]

18. Just because you had an atypical reaction doesn't mean the CDC got anything wrong.

[Girard442]

19. Herd immunity is vitally important.

[Mosby]

27. then the gov should make it mandatory

Because right now there is no herd immunity for influenza.

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2012/10/herd_immunity_and_the_flu_gett.html

[Fast Walker 52]

41. problem is we don't have a universal flu vaccine so it would be impossible to produce herd immunity

[Squinch]

29. Herd immunity and vaccine specificity are two completely different subjects.

One has nothing to do with the other.

[Quixote1818]

57. It works against the strain you get

There just isn't any guarantee if you get it that it will be that strain. It just lowers your odds and the more people who do it the lower everyone's odds are of getting it.

[Samantha]

11. In the top ten stressors of life, the loss of a child is #1 in being the most difficult to cope with

I was very saddened to read your thread, and I am sorry you no longer have your daughter here on earth with you. But if I might offer a few suggestions, do not hold back your grief in the beginning. Grieve in the way you feel is necessary and as often as you feel necessary. I personally learned from my own experience, this is very therapeutic.

There are books available that describe the seven stages of grief (some say five, others 7). I purchased one of these and read it after the loss of my father. I saw that I had in fact moved from stage to stage just as the book described. You might find learning what these stages are to be helpful.

Again, so, so sorry.

Sam

[Solly Mack]

26. I stopped calling influenza the flu when people became anti-vaccine cray-cray.

You'll note how using cray instead of crazy somewhat takes the sting out of the word crazy. Reducing the meaning somewhat and makes it kind of humorously insulting in a fun way.

Shortening influenza to flu seems to have accomplished a similar thinking for a lot of people. It's "just" the flu. Not the deadly influenza it actually is, and does become, for many people.

Influenza still kills a lot of people each year. It took the coming of antibiotics to bring the death rate down. And now that same knowledge that brought us life-saving medicines has also given us a life-saving vaccine.

Science heals. Ignorance kills.®

So, it's never - ever - "just the flu". It's influenza, you cray cray anti-vaxxers.

It's never - ever - just the measles, or just the chickenpox, or just the mumps, or just rubella etc..




I can't begin to imagine how hard it is to watch your child die. I hope her words reach people.

[Iggo]

33. Yep, I've got people at my office who think the flu is the same as a cold.

It's even one of their anecdotal excuses for not getting the flu shot.

Them: "I got the flu shot and then I got the flu."

Me: No, you got a cold.

Them: Confused look on their face, thinking, "Well, that's the same thing, right?"

Every fucking year. I've been there twelve years, and it's every fucking year one of those geniuses comes up with that one.

[Solly Mack]

43. I've run across people who confuse the two.

I never know whether to shake my head or shake them.

[Bear Creek]

52. Some strains are

Very mild cases you do not even know. You can get the flu shot and still get sick with it. The shot just reduces the chance you will get sick. How sick the teen was she should have been hospitalized. The doctor was incompetent should have been sued for malpractice.

[Horse with no Name]

35. H1N1 almost killed me

It took over a year to feel better and only now, EIGHT years later, does my physician feel comfortable enough to decrease my lung medicine.
The process by which the CDC tries to determine the threat of flu isn't exact science but they get it mostly right. There are 3 different strains that are included in the vaccine. But. Even if you still get the flu after the shot doesn't mean they got it wrong. If you didn't specifically get the flu in the annual formula, it was a success. You just got a flu that wasn't included.

[Solly Mack]

42. I know it it happens that way.

The CDC now tells people to stop saying 36k die. That the number is more like 3k-49k , depending how how well the vaccine works against certain influenza strains. They develop for one crop and another crop hits instead or along with, and it is usually a more dangerous strain. (mainly because it is new to us...as humans, new...even if animals have already died. The cross-over of a new strain can be more serious.)

It's a race, not exact, against what strains will hit, and people can still get strains not in the current vaccine.

Still, the vaccine does help prevent deaths.

I'm not being callous, though I know it comes across that way to many.

A friend to my mom and aunt got his flu shot one year, he was 75, the shot caused a stroke and he was paralyzed for the remainder of his life. My mom and aunt had no such reaction to the same shot. They all went together. No one else did in our county. It was a big local story 40 years ago. I remember because I was just starting high school at the time. I'm sure he didn't 't think it worth the risk. But 1 out of 100k plus isn't bad odds.

The overall health and age does have an impact. Different people react differently. Some children and adults have been known to die from reactions to vaccines, but the overall benefits, cruel as it is to say, makes the vaccines (not just for influenza) worth it. Though I can honestly say I didn't always trust the military when it came to vaccines.

People can make up their own minds, but when I was getting cancer treatment, I wanted to know who and who didn't get their immunizations. Because those children (and some now adults) who didn't, were deadly to me in my weakened state.

Yes, no one should have to die from a vaccine - but I shouldn't have to die because of a lack of a vaccine either. Cancer is bad enough. The treatment is worse. But to survive cancer and then die because someone didn't immunize their child/now young adult? That's murder in my book.

[paleotn]

51. I get your point, but I'm still a straight on, in your face

insulter of bat shit crazy, fucking assholes, who don't give a shit about anyone and who are in actuality putting their own children at risk of PREVENTABLE disease and possible death. It's the willful ignorance that drives me crazy and makes me want to slap them in their collective heads. I just can't cotton intentional stupidity.

By the way, the nuts that believe the crap they're spoon fed at Ham's ark park and dinosaur emporium get the same reaction from me.

[Solly Mack]

54. To be honest, I'm normally more insulting about the cray-cray among us. :)

Often calling their children snuggle bunny vectors of death.

And I wasn't exactly being polite in my original post. Merely getting around the insult with a cushion of humor.

OK. That's all the honesty I can handle today.

If I talk too much, people might grok on to my other round-about-ways of not being nice.


(It's OK. Solly Mack is nice. Very nice. You are getting very sleepy. Solly Mack is nice.)


And I am....until I'm not. Like everyone.

[mnhtnbb]

38. Losing a child is awful. Just awful. BUT, she might have died anyway even if she had a flu shot

Flu shots are no guarantee of not getting the flu or having complications from the flu because
there are so many different strains of the flu. The shot doesn't immunize against all strains.

[still_one]

46. There are no guarantees and never have been, but it reduces risk from strains it does cover

[mnhtnbb]

47. True. But the woman should not be beating herself up because she didn't insist

her daughter get a flu shot which might not have helped to prevent the flu anyway.

Getting a flu shot is a risk reduction tool.

From the CDC:

recent studies show vaccine reduces the risk of flu illness by about 50% to 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are like the vaccine viruses.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

That is pretty much pot luck. There is some concern also, that there is a reduction of effectiveness if you get the shot every year. Yes, it does help
reduce the risk of hospitalization for some higher risk groups. Still, it might not have made any difference for the woman's daughter. It's something she can never know and urging healthy young adults to get flu shots every year could turn out--in years to come--not to be the wise thing if there's something to the "diminishing returns" theory.

[womanofthehills]

55. CDC Reports this season Flu Vaccine reduces risk of flu by 48%

The mother also might be feeling guilty because she initially did not believe her daughter was sick.

February 16, 2017 – Based on early data, CDC reports that flu vaccines this season are reducing a vaccinated person’s risk of getting sick and having to go to the doctor because of flu by about half (48%). The agency also reports that there are still weeks to go during the current flu season. CDC recommends that flu vaccination efforts continue as long as influenza viruses are circulating.

Flu activity – dominated by influenza A H3N2 viruses -- has been elevated for 8 weeks this season and continues to increase in some areas. While the Northwest of the country experienced flu activity earlier and now seems to be on the downswing, the Midwest and eastern coast of the country continue to experience increases in activity. Activity this season has been dominated by influenza A H3N2 viruses. Over the past 15 years, flu seasons have averaged 13 weeks in length; with a range of 1 week to 20 weeks.

According to data from the U.S. Flu Vaccine Effectiveness Network, interim estimates show flu vaccine has been 48% effective in preventing medically-attended influenza A and B illness: Interim effectiveness estimates against the predominant influenza A (H3N2) viruses are 43% while the interim effectiveness estimate against influenza B viruses is 73%.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/flu-vaccine-reducing-risk.htm

[Sedona]

39. So sorry for your loss

I had a flu shot six months ago and was exposed last week. I got sick, but I know it would have been much worse without the extra antibodies to fight it off.

(Fifty something with asthma)

[still_one]

45. That is a report from CNN, not me

[Red Mountain]

53. Had a shot.....

got the flu.

Not her fault.

[Thomas Hurt]

56. A historical perspective of the flu...

https://www.amazon.com/Flu-Influenza-Pandemic-Search-Caused/dp/0743203984/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491176887&sr=1-3&keywords=spanish+flu

[colsohlibgal]

61. Just Sad

i took and continue to take every vaccine offered, took my two children to get vaccinated for everything too before they flew the coop.

The benefits far, far outweigh any minuscule risk, it is infinitely safer that driving.