Hear me out: we all know trolls are trying to divide us here, but there is a way to stop it.

[Squinch]

OK, obviously there are two camps. I am strongly in one of those camps. But that has ceased to matter. In the larger fight we are all on the same side, and that larger fight is a fight for everything we all believe in. All of us. Together.

For a while here, we all seemed to understand that. Lately, the shit is stirring up again. And if you look at the very active shit-stirring threads, you'll see that there are only a few posters posting them. It's hard to see them as trolls, because some are long term DUers, but, well, yep. They're trolls.

Problem is, I as a Hillary supporter see different trolls than a Sanders supporter sees. And you know what? We're probably both right. We know this, and yet it's almost irresistible to join in a discussion where someone is saying things that are so obviously meant to insult our own "group." So we all falling for it. On both sides. This is one time when it is correct to say, "both sides do it."

But the good news is there's a way for us to extricate ourselves from this schoolyard nonsense. So let's do this. Please. We have truly earth-shattering issues to address and we really can't be wasting our time on these people who are determined to prevent us from being effective in fighting the bigger fight.

Here's the easy way to stop it. We all know the way to kill a troll is to not feed it replies. So each of us simply needs to take that one name that we absolutely know is a troll and we can't believe everyone else can't see it, and we need to put that person on ignore.

I know who my name is. And a Sanders supporter probably has another name, but it doesn't matter. We each shut down the troll that is coming after our position, and the very few people who are creating this dissent among us are starved and shut up.

Put ONE troll on ignore. Just one. It will completely change the way we feel about each other.

[grossproffit]

1. Unity will happen when 2 newcomers emerge for the 2020 presidential election.

Keyword = newcomers.

[Cha]

4. Yeah, and then it can start afresh.

[yardwork]

10. That won't stop the Republicans and others who want to destroy the Democratic Party.

They will just focus their negging and whining on the next Democratic candidate.

[Squinch]

39. And, we have a lot of essential work that we have to join together to do in the meantime.

[dlk]

34. Don't Be Naive

Whether the Dems nominate newcomers or seasoned pros, those seeking division will be out in force, either way. The divide and conquer tactic has worked very well so far, it will not disappear in the future.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

2. You are so correct..

I'm reminded of high school athletes reminiscing about their playing days decades ago. It's over, move on, no one wants to hear your stories anymore.

Squinch, you're right. So many more important battles.

[Demsrule86]

3. Good idea this out out of control...constant juries.

[MoonRiver]

5. How to destroy a troll: Starve & Alert

[RKP5637]

6. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

[Left-over]

9. Amen to this! I believe in progressive policies that empower the citizens of this great nation,

I also believe, like you said, in live and let live. Part of the problem is that people have become too nosey about other folks's lives.

[DinahMoeHum]

7. Trash their threads as well. . .

. . .works for me. . .

Out of sight is out of mind.

[yardwork]

8. I found a slightly different approach that is working well for me.

I went into my DU account and "trashed" a topic.

I have found that the trolls are attracted to one single topic. Trash that topic and your DU experience becomes largely troll-free.

(One obvious troll respelled the words of the topic, I guess to make sure I saw his thread. I simply trashed that particular thread and felt affirmed that, yep, that is a troll.)

I recommend this approach for people who are sick of the divisiveness but don't want to leave DU entirely. I see many more interesting threads now that my page isn't clogged with the troll-topic.

Your approach is also good. We need to ignore trolls and trolling.

[phylny]

21. I thought about trashing a topic the other day, but stopped short.

You have given me a reminder nudge that it's time to do it.

Resist! United we stand!

[yardwork]

33. I find it very helpful.

[m-lekktor]

29. Since you started a thread to announce what word you were going to use to trash threads.

We know who you think the trolls are.

[yardwork]

32. You may have misunderstood my point. I said that trolls are attracted to the topic.

Trolls are here to disrupt, so they will take various positions. A single troll might have five socks, each with a slightly different position on a topic. I noticed that they are attracted to a single topic. By trashing that topic I can avoid a lot of troll-work.

The thread you're talking about is here, for those who want to see for themselves. Note that I don't blame any one side. Nor do I blame the topic. I'm just sharing something I discovered that makes my DU experience more peaceful and interesting right now. ymmv.

Peace out.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028950662

[stonecutter357]

52. thanks for the link i just did the same and WOW WOW WOW. piece and quiet.

[yardwork]

56. I'm seeing threads on various topics I never saw before. It's great.

[sharedvalues]

77. That's good for me and you but trolls poisoning DU for new users

They can starve DU of new users with this trolling.

[yardwork]

80. That is a huge problem, I agree.

[Squinch]

41. I trashed the topic too, but "my" troll seems to want to get around that so he used a

tactic that altered the topic name just enough that it wasn't filtered out by my "trash topic" list. They're pretty determined, these bastards!

ETA: you seem to be referring to the same guy! The one with the neon "troll" arrow pointing at him.

[yardwork]

54. Fortunately, it's very easy to trash single threads.

[spanone]

11. K&R...

[Equinox Moon]

12. How do we tell the difference between a troll and someone with a different view?

[MadDAsHell]

18. You're not supposed to ask that question.

You're just supposed to be angry and ignore, alert or trash anyone who isn't in your echo chamber.

[Equinox Moon]

20. How do I post my progressive Democrat views without being considered a troll?

[Squinch]

43. Is your purpose to disrupt? If not there shouldn't be a problem.

[JudyM]

59. I doubt anyone would consider you a troll, EM.

And if they do, you won't get any good interaction with them, anyway.

[emulatorloo]

67. You aren't a troll. Your posts are never flamebait.

You don't start threads whose only purpose is to divide Democrats/Liberals/Progressives and get them at each other's throats.

[Squinch]

45. Well, no. I think I was clearly suggesting that each of us ignore the single poster who

seems most obviously to us to be here solely for the purpose of disruption.

If that makes me an angry echo chamber denizen, so be it.

[emulatorloo]

68. Trolls only post flaimbait. Sole purpose is to get us at each other's throats.

Maybe that clarifies.

[gordianot]

13. Donald Trump is the greatest threat the planet and humanity has ever faced.

All other concerns pale in comparison. Trump has made America great, people need to focus.

[cstanleytech]

14. To be honest I would not object if Skinner and the DU mods took a permanent ban hammer

to the dipshits who keep trying to stir shit up as their games have grown extremely tiresome.

[meow2u3]

16. Trouble is, the trolls sign up under another user name

Some of them are adept at using VPNs to circumvent the ban hammers.

[cstanleytech]

74. Aye I know that is a huge drawback so maybe what we need is a larger mirt team

so that they can be caught sooner and to make it as difficult for them as possible.

[NobodyHere]

15. Who are these trolls?

Can you point one out?

[tblue37]

26. That would violate the rule against accusing other members of being trolls. nt

[Squinch]

44. Oh, come on. Really?

[Judi Lynn]

82. There's a question which usually doesn't come up. "Don't bait DU'ers" is good advice.

It's common decency, and shouldn't need to be mentioned.

[NobodyHere]

95. Where's the line between "trolling" and posting a dissenting opinion?

[riderinthestorm]

17. + 1 million. We must be better than this nt

[mvd]

19. I use multiple methods

- ignore user
- alert if obvious; I rarely use this though
- trash thread
- as a Bernie supporter, be positive about Bernie while trying to avoid bashing Hillary supporters. Divisive posters don't like civility
- just leave a discussion if I feel it won't go anywhere

[defacto7]

22. Ignoring the trolls doesnt have to be perminent either.

There are trolls, and then there are regular participants who are roll bait. I put all the participants on ignore until the whole thing blws over then I take them off ignore. That way I don’t have to pretend to know who the trolls are.
Blocking by content works too.
But anything that makes greatest page or trending won't get blocked... that means blocked members or blocked content. So it's not a cure all.

[L. Coyote]

23. The Republicans are in full panic mode. This is a good sign.

I do ignore trolls, but I also want to read between their lines and understand their one-liners. The patterns in disinformation are revealing.

[yardwork]

24. That's true but I have all the info I need now.

At this point, the purpose is FUD.

[Squinch]

46. I think the timing of their shit-stirring is instructive too. There seems to be a real

uptick lately, just as the open hearings are coming and a lot of surprise resignations are hitting the news.

[L. Coyote]

49. The new daily-major-distraction-event is now standard fair, and the media just keeps playing along.

And the left is falling for it too. How many Sarah Palin posts?
WTF difference does it make if her face is in the news cycle for a day?

SIMPLE. Less #TrumpRussia.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Squinch]

96. I love Laydeebug's posts here about "Don't let them control the narrative!" It is the key and

something we STILL haven't learned how to do.

[The99thTimeLord]

25. How do you stop people from accusing you of being a troll just for sharing your opinion

I was accused of it today. It seems like if someone doesn't like your opinion than they think you're a troll.

[Raster]

27. you have a point. Welcome to DU!

live long and prosper.

[Demit]

40. Another thing to be wary of here, the itchy trigger fingers on the word troll.

[Squinch]

47. You can't make other people do anything. You can only control your own behavior.

[L. Coyote]

50. Don't post what trolls post maybe.

If you have an opinion shared by the trolls, this isn't where to post it.

[emulatorloo]

70. Trolls post flamebait to put people at each other's throats.

That is their sole purpose.

That's not your style at all, sorry you were called a troll

[lies]

28. This all seems reasonable... Until you think about it.

The forum currently judges post a about Sanders and posts about the Democratic Party and its politicians differently.

So it's totally fine to post 100 anti-Bermie posts a day, and those can be full of comments about how awful Bernie is, and the moderators are cool with that and all Bernie supporters can do - these are people that vote for Dems remember - is ignore it.

But if a Bernie supporter (or even a Bernie hater that isn't scared of criticism, debate and reform - those ideas aren't owned by Sanders afterall) posts even a vaguely critical post, or even an independent fact check about a Dem, that is unflattering, they'll have their accounts threatened.

In essence there's two classes on DU, and a power imbalance, and frankly we know that that leads to abuse and to protests and to disharmony.

But that's what happens when the most popular Democrat is actually an independent.

Chances of it peacefully resolving while this power embalance remains? Next to none.

[Enoki33]

35. I may be wrong, but l think as long as we are wise enough to set

national priorities that we all agree on and remain focused on that the petty stuff will fall away. I have read many times here statements about country before party. That does not mean abandoning individual core beliefs. It does mean a critical logical approach to problem solving that effectively reflects the diversity we represent. Right now we have to rescue our country from a kleptocratic family and political party. My two cents.

[lies]

53. The problem with that is...

Without power at a local level the is no power at the national level.

And there's almost no agreement at the local level about what the Democratic Party will look like in 10 years time.

These divisions goes from the top to the bottom of the party, in all 50 states.

The age of everyone just voting Democratic Party down the line are largely over. Those people are a small percentage of a minority block of voters.

[Squinch]

58. There has never really been agreement at the local level about what the Democratic Party

would look like in ten years.

There has also never been a clearer enemy for all Democrats, no matter where we may be on the spectrum.

[JudyM]

61. Completely agree with you, except as to the matters that bring out aggressive attacks.

Incessant aggressive attacks against Sanders are guaranteed whenever a post is made about him. Since he has become one of the most active members of the Dem coalition he keeps making news. And without fail, there is a lunge for blood, as if healing things on DU is the last thing they want.
His supporters are not aggressively attacking simply by making posts about him!

[radical noodle]

30. Some of us have already stopped responding

I pledged a week or so ago not to fall into that trap of replying to divisive posts anymore and no matter how much my fingers itched to do so, I've managed to keep to it. I didn't block anyone, I just resist the desire to add my voice to it.

#resist #persist #onward

[Squinch]

48. I have to admit, sometimes I take the bait. I even do it when I KNOW that guy who started the

thread is a troll. It's like having ice cream in the freezer. I know it's bad for me, but I can't stop myself.

[radical noodle]

66. It's chocolate to me but

I try to picture myself not eating it. LOL!

[ms liberty]

31. About 90% of the time, I don't take the bait

I just don't comment, even when they piss me off. It's worked most of the time for 14 years. Sometimes I fall off the wagon, lol, but it usually quickly ends with my recommitment to ignore the assholes. I've never put anyone on ignore, I've never used the trash functions, because I want to know what people think, especially if their opinion is different from mine. I've never been a big commenter anyway, hence my low post count for my years here, particularly when I'm here most every day. For me, this is the place I can find reputable news from reputable sources, and that outweighs the assholes who are here for an argument and to stir trouble. My usual method is to write the comment and then delete before posting...its when I hit post instead of deleting that gives me that 10% heartburn! But you are correct...it is a small group who are keeping the turmoil churning, and they're having a blast because our division is exactly what they want.

[L. Coyote]

36. Alt-right going after Maddow. They are sweating bullets over poor Trumpkin's new corruption scandal

The latest attack is based on Maddow covering the $500,000 donation to trump's inauguration by the state oil company (read Rosneft). Of course the protests oppose the big money give away. But Maddow isn't saying the entire basis of government opposition is that donation. More likely, a lot more money is being spent to support causing the violence in the protests, and like in Berkeley, the far right is behind the viloence and continues to use it to try to overthrow the democratic government in Venezuela.

Link to tweet

Here is a small sample of what the numerous wingnut bots are posting:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Mister Ed]

37. Great idea! Me, I just don't read their stuff, much less reply to it.

Don't even need an ignore button. Once it goes to "but BernieBernieBernieBernie but HillaryHillaryHillaryHillary", I'm skipping on to another thread.

That's what works for me, but others should do whatever works best for them to help tamp down the internecine warfare and concentrate on the greater, more dire and desperate battle that Democrats must now fight.

[Demit]

38. You seem to see the two camps as either Hillary supporters or Bernie supporters.

In the threads I have read, concerning Bernie Sanders' activity on this Unity Tour, I have seen very little mention of Hillary Clinton, because she is irrelevant to the subject of the Unity Tour. So I question your premise that the trolls, that you say are obvious, are divided that way. I've been on many a jury that has to decide when a poster is refighting the primary. Those posters get gone right quick.

May I ask, what is your definition of a troll? And how do you "absolutely know" when a poster is one?

[Squinch]

55. You're missing my point. My point is for YOU to determine what YOUR definition of a troll is.

Is there someone who you are certain is only here to disrupt? If so, put that one person on ignore.

[Demit]

62. I didn't miss your point about there being a Hillary camp and a Bernie camp.

I still think that's a questionable assertion.

And no, I don't make such glib judgments about knowing who is only here to disrupt, so I don't need to take your kind of preemptive action. If somebody's post is annoying to me, I just click off the thread and go on to another. It's a public forum, for christ's sake.

I'm looking for substantive exchanges, opinions backed up with information. I find plenty in the threads that I've read about Bernie Sanders and the Unity Tour. Yeah, accusations sometimes fly, but the debate itself is not divisive, in my mind. It's useful, informative, clarifying. And if somebody keeps copy/pasting the same info—well, I've been here long enough to have seen that before. I scroll past that too. No need to do the la-la-I-can't-hear-you thing.

[Squinch]

65. Well, good for you!

[aikoaiko]

42. I ignore the ignore button. I can't agree with your suggestion.

Using the ignore button is just echo-chamber creation. It creates a falls impression of DU to those who use it.

[Squinch]

75. One ignored poster does not an echo-chamber make. But YMMV.

[mvd]

76. I have used it a lot, but not on everyone with a different opinion

DU still isn't close to being an echo chamber. The poster has to be divisive to make me use it.

[cwydro]

57. K and r.

Well said.

[MFM008]

60. I ignore it

Usually.
Mr. Sanders is not the leader of the Democrat party. Really is a Vermont issue.

[Permanut]

63. Great topic, Squinch..

I joined this board a long time ago partly because of the name: "Democratic Underground". Not "Independent Underground", or "Progressive Underground". But then, I tend to focus on the meaning of words.

[TheDebbieDee]

64. Along with what you have said, I believe that Russian TROLLS have been visiting this

site and other progressive sites and forums since the early-mid 2000s. I first became aware that this site was infested with trolls during the 2008 primaries and general election - I didn't know they were Russian trolls, tho. I just thought they were Netvocate or Netvogate trolls who were social media folks paid to sway public opinion one way or the other on internet forums and sites. I even posted a few times during the primaries about there seeming to be an organization of posters posting divisive, provocative stuff about both Sen Clinton and Sen Obama, but they were using the same terms...

But I think the only people who replied to my posts at the time were the trolls themselves, telling me I was out of my mind...

Anyway, now that we KNOW that the trolls are here, we need to STOP letting them pull our strings...

[Squinch]

69. Given what we have learned about the extent of Putin's efforts to undermine the election, and

the number of full time trolls he employed to sow discord and confusion in groups like DU, I would be very surprised if some of the people disrupting here are NOT Russian trolls.

It's weird, isn't it, that we are interacting with them directly? Kind of like some dystopian science fiction, and we're living it right now.

[TheDebbieDee]

72. Oh, I know there are Russian trolls here - I can't PROVE it, but I know it!

But we have to learn to STOP reacting to their organized, provocative crap on this board. And if this means turning a deaf ear to negative or critical posts or commenting only "Thank you for your concern..." to muck-raking posts, then that's what we should do...

I did see a muck-raking post here in the last week or two where almost ALL of the responses were, "Thank you for your concern..."

[Squinch]

73. Lol. Great reply.

[Mc Mike]

71. So many juicy right wing dRumpf targets, no need for intramurals. nT

[Squinch]

79. Exactly. We need to put our efforts elsewhere. For you know, like, the survival of democracy and

the earth in general.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. I don't use the ignore function. But my answer is, I stopped taking DU too seriously a long time ago

Basically, the "fights" are essentially the same- oftentimes it's the exact same people, even though the obstensible "issues" or sides or lines on the playing field change, the userids change through an endless iteration of zombie/sock accounts, etc.

I just don't take peoples' puffed up overdramatic bullshit seriously.

[steve2470]

86. yep you nailed it

The only thing that really matters is, people going out into the real world doing the grunt work of advancing progressive causes. Or at least donating money when you can or making a phone call, etc. This board *can* be fun, but when it turns into annoyance, it's time to do something else or go to a different topic or part of the board.

I use Ignore for people who come at me in the harshest possible way. Fine, do that, but you'll be on ignore thereafter.

[Worktodo]

81. So glad to have found this thread!

This has been driving me nuts. Worst part is I've been reading them. The techniques are interesting.

Note that I am using "cookies" as a stand in for whatever the troll is trolling...

For example, an OP like "Some people here are saying Cookies have no sugar! Cookies contain sugar! You should stop being devisive! I challenge any Democrat to say that Cookies are Sugar Free!" and then there's like 6 dozen people who K&R! 'cause who doesn't like cookies!?

The really confounding one was an OP that said "I am going to reply 'I like Cookies!' to everything that anyone posts". And then actually did that! I was going to alert on it but there was literally nothing objectionable about it under the forum rules. 'cause who doesn't like cookies!

So thank you again and also all the people who have posted here about techniques for stopping it. I'll have to bookmark this page and try some things out. I was about to just abandon DU....

[Squinch]

83. Don't give up on us! I had actually previously done the trash keyword thing and it worked

great for a while, but then the troll did something to get around it. BUT, that absolutely identified him as a troll
and I was able to put him on ignore. Now everything is MUCH better.

Welcome!

[madokie]

84. My ignore

list is growing like it was alive, I tells ya

[Squinch]

85. I have to say, I only have two names on mine. One is "my" troll who I put on only a few

days ago, and it made all the difference in the world. The guy was just starting thread after thread to get people mad at each other.

The other is someone I put on a few weeks ago who posted dozens of threads of nothing but nonsense. I don't think that one's a troll, she's just annoying.

[madokie]

87. You seem to have missed the Obama years

some here can't be trusted to have a decent conversation about anyone who was opposed to the anointed one

[Squinch]

89. Joined in 2012. Hey! I just noticed! My 5 year anniversary was last month. THAT went fast!

[madokie]

90. Time flies

Peace

[Squinch]

91. To you too. Happy Sunday.

[betsuni]

93. Are you calling Obama "the anointed one"?

Why?

[betsuni]

88. When I see my favorite DUers savaged for years by trolls and they fight back a little,

I'm all for it. Suddenly a bit of teasing and push-back is a huge problem? I haven't seen any lies or fake news from them. Those who dish it out should be able to take it in this gentlest form -- what crybabies! All I want is for DU to become a place where Democrats aren't constantly attacked. I love my favorite DUers, who are intelligent and vote Democratic because there is no choice in this modern world.

[peasant one]

92. good ideas - all

I know that I increasingly just read the article and not the comments--If I do go to the comments - I get out at the first sign of a unnecessarily critical post. We need to do something about these disruptive people - if just for the new DUers. I know this place helped me a lot after the Bush election and it has kept me informed, sometimes when I didn't want to be.

[Cary]

94. Vote Democratic Squinch

We all have that in common.