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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"No Thanks, Bernie: Virginia Abortion Rights Advocates Know Better" (Title)
Last edited Thu Apr 27, 2017, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)
I have referenced the Virginia Governor's race in several of my posts. It seems not many here are not familiar with this important (governors) Democratic primary. This is a crucial race and we need to keep Virginia in the Democratic fold:particularly when the census is around the corner...gerrymandering Virginia would be a certainty if the Republican wins Virginia's governorship...so why did Perriello a flawed candidate with an anti-choice past decide to run in a race that a NARAL endorsed candidate pretty much had in the bag? Why risk losing the seat? Also, why was Perriello endorsed in the primary by Sen. Sanders (who held a rally for him) and Elizabeth Warren? I can understand holding your nose and voting for the Democrat during an election but I do not understand endorsing an anti-choice candidate in a primary. As far as I am concerned Perriello came close to stopping the ACA and threw all women under the anti-choice bus with the Stupak amendment...details provide below. This is a long article but worth the read...I have excepted some of what I consider important.
https://rewire.news/article/2017/04/07/no-thanks-bernie-virginia-abortion-rights-advocates-know-better/
"...In my personal capacity as an abortion rights activist and the mother of a young daughter in Virginia, I am proud to witness Lt. Gov. Ralph Northam (D-VA)s continuous unwavering support for reproductive freedoms as he campaigns for the governors mansion. Northam has a long history of championing reproductive rights. As a state senator from Norfolk, he was the first to reference transvaginal ultrasound in the General Assembly in 2012, framing that ultimately forced then-Gov. Bob McDonnell (R-VA) to sign a watered-down version of the law.
From day one, Northam has been part of the successful team that delivered upon Gov. McAuliffes promise to roll back the abortion clinic shutdown restrictions designed to force abortion clinics to close...
...As far as reproductive rights are concerned, the lieutenant governor couldnt be more different than Tom Perriello, who voted for the Stupak-Pitts amendment in the Affordable Care Actone of the worst moments in the history of the Democratic Partys sell-outs on reproductive rightsand has since offered regret for that vote, saying hes always been pro-choice and a supporter of Roe v. Wade. Problem is, hes made contradicting statements. And hes led a scorched-earth strategy with abortion rights advocates on the ground, who look at his troubling record and ask the legitimate, necessary questions about why women in Virginia should trust a man who betrayed not just them, but women across the nation.
[Perriello voted for the Stupak amendment]
"...The Stupak amendment was an anti-abortion, poison-pill addition to the Affordable Care Act that nearly prevented health-care reform from passing. In a breathtaking act of masculine ego, former Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) and 63 other Democrats, including then-congressman Perriello, threatened to block a vote on Obamacare unless people who received subsidies were prevented from using their own private dollars to purchase plans including coverage for abortion care. This was not a continuation of the Hyde Amendment that bans federal funding for abortion, as suggested by Perriello at a campaign speech for Arlington Young Democrats three weeks ago, but rather a massive departure from insurance industry norms.
When Stupaks amendment was introduced, the vast majority of employer-based insurance plans87 percentcovered abortion care, and the net effect of that amendment would have been to, in the words of a George Washington University study at the time, move the entire health benefits industry away from its current inclusive coverage norms [regarding abortion] and toward a new norm of exclusion
. Thus, if the result of national health reform is to move millions of women into a market that operates subject to the exclusion, then it is fair to predict that the entire market for coverage ultimately will be affected as a product tipping point is reached.
While the Stupak amendment failed to make its way into the bill that ultimately passed, it did pave the way for deep gashes to abortion coverage within the Affordable Care Act, and an insulting executive order signed by President Obama affirming the Hyde Amendment in the insurance marketagain, a departure from what had been inclusive coverage norms for abortion coverage in the private insurance market."
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Given that Warren also endorsed Perriello, it would make sense to mention that also.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I have seen numerous articles discussing the Bernie sin while most commenters avoid criticizing Warren for the same sin.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... either through articles, essays, and opinion-pieces that you find, or that you write yourself.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren each endorsed Perriello. One is receiving much criticism, the other is not. AS to the motivations of the ones who criticize one and not the other, I will allow readers to draw their own conclusions.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... for additional thoughts on your emotion-based theory and my alternate theories that are centered more on logic and demonstrable facts.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)"Seeking to drape himself in the mantle of Barack Obama in his Virginia gubernatorial race, former Rep. Tom Perriello on Wednesday began circulating a letter showing support from more than two dozen members of the former presidents staff, according to a copy obtained by POLITICO.
Among the 29 signers: Obamas 2008 campaign manager David Plouffe; former White House deputy chief of staff Nancy-Ann DeParle; former White House Senior Adviser Dan Pfeiffer; former White House Communications Director Jennifer Palmieri; former White House deputy senior adviser, Stephanie Cutter; former White House social secretary Julianna Smoot; former White House Domestic Policy Council Director Cecilia Muñoz; and former White House director of political affairs, Patrick Gaspard, fresh off a stint as the U.S. ambassador to South Africa...
...Perriello lost in 2010 to GOP Rep. Robert Hurt by 4 percentage points. Obama campaigned for him the weekend before the election, making Perriello the only House member to get a personal political visit from the president."
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/obama-staff-tom-perriello-virginia-236367
This race seems to be pitting two candidates, with genuine support from solid Democrats, against each other. I have enough problems helping deal with fielding a strong Democratic slate for our local Town Board elections, so I have not tuned into this Virginia race, especially when I realized that both candidates come with good references. I wish Virginia Democrats the best of luck in selecting the best candidate to represent their party in that election.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Pres. Obama supported him in 10 as an incumbent, I had not heard he supports him now...that would be very disappointing.
WhiteTara
(29,721 posts)I have trouble understanding her motive in endorsing Perrillo.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Warren would rather see a far less than perfect Democrat in power over a Republican. He wouldn't be my first choice, but he is better than any republican.
WhiteTara
(29,721 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Such is politics in 2017. Some states are utterly incompatible with our political beliefs and a D win, in the end, is a D win. Democrats can be pressured into supporting liberal policies, but NO Republican can be pressured into adopting a liberal stance.
As much as I hate to say it, the Democratic party is in such a free fall that it is better to support someone we can change that has a chance of beating a Republican than backing a losing candidate.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)There is a progressive Democrat running who has been endorsed by NARAL-Northam...this is not against a Republican...in fact some think if Perriello wins, we lose the governorship.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)As progressive as I am, I really think that there has to be something that indicates the progressive candidate has less of a chance winning. Otherwise, I can't imagine Warren endorsing Perriello.
As much as it pains me to say it, I would rather a flawed Dem win than have any republican win.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)We have been in Virginia for hundreds of years...Northam risked his seat to help defeat the forced ultrasound bill which led to a watered down version. He has been great on this and other issues...in the meantime, Perriello was a member of the house and voted for the Stupak amendent which almost cost us health care and limited abortion rights in the final bill...even though it did not pass...concessions were made to these conservadems which included Perriello...he is an opportunist.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)We are all allowed our opinions.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)as has been pointed out, there are other Democrats.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)amendment and only recently repented.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)a less than perfect candidate as preferable to another GOP politician.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Mea Culp Mea Maxima Culpa.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Less visibility... or less something.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)who hold the exact same positions? If so, position apparently matters less than labels.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... more on your personal emotions than on demonstrable data.
I can only suggest that perhaps the politician's "popularity" and "clout" and "position" influence such things.
Also, it could be based on the politician's overall "visibility" and how often politicians appear on news programs for quickie-interviews or in-depth interviews. It's quite reasonable to conclude that high-visibility politicians are more likely to be targets of valid criticism (the same way that they're likely to be "darlings" of their fan-base.)
Another thing to consider may be that it's related to the breadth and depth of a politician's "outreach".
Frankly, I think that the options and possibilities I've offered are much more logical and make much more sense than ones that are based on emotion or adoration. But, that's just my opinion. Your opinion is different, obviously. I've just offered mine as something for you to consider. You may accept it or reject is, as I've done with yours.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Attempts to rationalize the double standard are revealing but hardly convincing.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... Bernie is a high-visibility politician who puts himself in that position. He's not being singled-out or unfairly targeted for criticism. While there may be other politicians who share his views, the fact that his "stature" and "popularity" and "position" is greater than theirs is the main reason why he draws scorn from his critics (and by the same token, he draws a lot of praise from his fans.)
His outreach position within the party also puts him into the spotlight more often than other rank-and-file politicians. One need only use logic and rational analysis (instead of emotion) to arrive at the truth.
It's complete bullshit to whine and moan about Bernie being "unfairly" singled out... or that it has anything to do with that "true Democrat" nonsense.
He's not a crybaby. He's a grown man, he's an experienced lifelong politician. He's a politician who has been a part of the establishment for so long that he clearly knows what to expect, and can roll with the punches. There's really need for people to invent conspiracy theories in order to protect him from valid criticism. (What are those people afraid of?)
All this hand-wringing and pearl-clutching is for naught.
WhiteTara
(29,721 posts)of wrong and right for Democrats.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)What exactly were they expecting? If someone wants to put themselves "out-there" (as Bernie has done)... then it's TOTALLY unrealistic to expect ONLY praise and gratitude.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)social justice areas including but not limited to abortion rights.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... perceive legitimate criticism (or push-back) as somehow being "unfair" or motivated by "hate." I imagine that they feel such a strong emotional connection or "bond" with a particular politician that anything falling short of outright praise is something that they take personally. Even though it's the politician who's being criticized, there are some who often act as if they themselves have been maligned and insulted, and as a result, they often overreact.
You really didn't deserve to be treated that way, Demsrule86. But, I applaud your efforts in continuing to be accommodating and sensitive to their feelings. I noticed that in spite of your polite concessions, the loudest complainers have not yet acknowledged your effort (as of now.) This suggests to me that their "outrage" isn't sincere and that it really is just a deflection. (I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it.)
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am not saying that it applies to everyone.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)As is the denial of holding a tin god held to any standard at all, and pretending it's merely a biased, oppressive and unfair attack when actually done so..
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Sen. Sanders. The point is why would this guy be endorsed by Sen. Sanders and any Democratic leaders including but not limited to Sen. Warren? PERRIELLO VOTED FOR THE STUPAK AMENDMENT. This amendment lead to permanently anti-choice influence on our abortion rights as it relates to employee and private insurance, almost derailed the entire ACA and in my opinion led to the public option being dropped from the bill. He is a candidate in a primary who's endorsement by anyone... Democrat or ally...throws pro-choice Democratic advocates under the bus. A bitter primary that turns into a proxy fight for the soul of the Democratic party could also cost us the very important Governorship of Virginia.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)at Sen. Warren and any Dem who supports Perriello. How about a comment on the substance. How do you feel about endorsing an anti-choice candidate running in a primary where a NARAL supported candidate is already running? Northam has a good chance and has proven he can win statewide...Perriello being in the primary actually may damage our chances of winning.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Personally, I am pro-life, and politically I am pro-choice.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)I called her office and Sen.Sanders office too.
Rilgin
(787 posts)There are a few more names you could add if you want to show even more balance in showing it is not an act of Bernie but seems to be a split amongst Democrats including the Clinton and Obama camps. This is an accurate picture, would raise the same questions on why they are supporting a candidate with a questionable history on pro-choice/anti-abortion legislation while taking your bias against Bernie alone out of the picture.
Tom Perriello is also supported by John Podesta who as you know was Hillary's campaign chairman and according to this article other major players who were key aids in her run. I think Tom Perriello also had a big role at the Center for American Progress.
Then lets move on to other prominent political forces that are endorsing him to get an actual picture. 30 Members of Obama's inner staff signed a letter of support for Pierrelo as well. The article has some of the names. The article also said Obama campaigned for him as well the week before the election (which Perriello lost). The article said that Pierrello was the only congressmen who Obama campaigned with in the last weeks. These stops were after the problematic votes you refer to. So you might as well add Obama himself to the list.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/obama-staff-tom-perriello-virginia-236367
So really its not Bernie's single handed support its also prominent members of the Clinton and Obama teams. I think it shows some political calculations and divisions amongst the politicos as to how to take back political control with the democratic party having no political power. I suspect that the wide spread support in the political players in the Obama and Clinton campaigns and Bernie that they think Perriello most have a better chance of being elected.
I find it somewhat troubling but it is not a Bernie issue as you imply. It is a bigger current question as to purity or how much the Democratic Party needs to compromise on issues. We have seen that play out for years within the Democratic party including on the Abortion issue.
I would tend to agree with you on the actual issue involved both as a policy and strategy that in a choice of democratic candidates that solid pro-choice should be one of the few issues given a dominant consideration of support.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Northam is better on progressive issues. I would add that Sen. Sanders has more influence than Podesta which is why a number of articles were written about Bernie endorsing Perriello.
Rilgin
(787 posts)It seems like their support comes from different sides. Perrillio is getting support from National politicians and Northam from Local ones. Since I am confused by it, I think there must be something more going on that leads to Podesta and Plouffe and Obama staffers liking Perrillio. You might consider that the story you understand might not be the whole story. Perriello not so anti-choice and Northam with some other warts. Few races have pure candidates and this one where people are lining on both sides must have two sides even if its just electability.
After edit. Someone sent me a link to an article that might point to Northam's warts. Northam evidently has said he voted for George W Bush twice. Again, I don't know a lot about him but just on the basis of the split, I was pretty sure that it was not a Bernie issue and that there are some issues with Northam as well.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-candidate-for-virginia-governor-says-he-voted-for-george-w-bush-twice_us_58b48eb9e4b0780bac2c68d5
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)He voted for the Stupak amendment in 2009 which almost derailed the ACA and permanently damaged insurance coverage of abortion for both private insurance plans and employee insurance plans...he presents himself as a populist economically;this is why he has supporters in my opinion who seem willing to throw pro-choice advocates under the bus. I think he is an opportunist who can not be trusted and am furious at those in the Democratic Party and those allied with the Democratic party who endorse this guy...have called both Sanders and Warren.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)He told the paper that...rare to find that kind of honesty. But he never voted to end women's abortion insurance rights as Perriello did... I don't believe he has changed either.
Rilgin
(787 posts)Yes, I understand you think that you think that but what you are intimating is a race between an angel and devil. Regardless of honesty, I think voting for Bush might indicate some problems in his candidacy. The article also said he was courted by the Republican Party. I assume that he has some ideas and would endorse policies that you might find not desirable.
The mere fact that Perriello seems to have support from women and men in the Obama and Clinton administrations might indicate that you should consider that this might not be a bus issue. From the little I have seen, Perriello is not running an anti-choice campaign and has stated that voting for Stupak was a mistake. He is taking a pro-choice position. Northam is clearly making pro-choice the center piece of his campaign but may have other weaknesses. This is the reason people seem to be lining up on both sides. They both seem pretty strong candidates unless you want to feel like you are always under the bus. To put it frankly, none of the people I see endorsing Perrielo would endorse him if he was as anti-choice as you are trying to present. None of them.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)should be marginalized in order to attract right wing voters...what rights are you willing to give up? Should we throw LGBTQ under the bus next...plenty of red state hatred there...should we stop allowing interracial marriages...still polls badly in the south...Economic populism is being used to define if one is progressive or not and social issues are now less important to some of our leaders...that is unacceptable.
Rilgin
(787 posts)Perrielo is not running on anti-abortion or pro-life policies and has promised not to vote to limit pro-choice positions. He is not a pro-life candidate. You want this to be a choice between someone who is pro-life and someone who is pro-choice so you can say any support for one candidate is throwing you under the bus.
It is true that Pirreilo voted for Stupak but he also voted and worked to preserve funding for Planned Parenthood. He is not pure on this issue like Northram seems to be but Perrielo has apologized for Stupak and says that his not his current belief. Like a ton of politicians (including many which I am sure you support) he says he has evolved on this issue. You just do not want to believe him because otherwise you are not being dissed. If both are currently pro-choice your criticism has no validity unless you attach his current position. But that is not being thrown under the bus, its not believing the evolution of a candidate. I don't know him or know what he will do. However, I do know a few things. You are exaggerating him to be anti-choice as a candidate so you can have outrage and I find it unlikely that Perrielo will actually vote in any way to adversely affect the right to an abortion. If Perrielo gets elected and votes anti-choice he will have no future in the democratic party. You do know this. He like Biden before him has made the choice to be pro-choice politically.
You mention LGBTQ rights. Are you prepared to use the same standards on your own favored politicians. It is not the left nor economic leftists that have been the historic opponents of civil rights, gay marriage or anti-abortion. Both Obama and Hillary were publically against gay marriage while running for political offices. Bill signed DOMA and instituted don't ask don't tell rather than support the right to be gay. Hillary's full conversion to equal rights came finally in 2013 (well after she was a senator and after her first run for president). Did or would you have supported Hillary for Senator and, if so, because she was not pure on absolute gay rights would that be throwing gay people under the bus. That is the problem with your outrage, it invents enemies, sets up strawmen to fight against and is selective as to who you target.
And economic populism is not being used by anyone on the left to "define" whether someone is progressive. You are purely making that up. I challenge you again, please find anywhere support on the left for someone who is outright anti-choice or supports a candidate that is running on an anti-choice platform. You will not find one. It is the centrists who have preached an election strategy of co-opting issues and triangulation which is why you will find centrist politicians often adding the word rarity or rate as a goal in their abortion beliefs to give credence to it being bad rather than giving pro-choice a full throated endorsement.
Personally, like Bernie, I am fully pro-choice and do not think government has a role in limiting or not funding the choice. However, there are a lot of democrats who seem ok with some limits and use their soapbox to denigrate the abortion choice (demanding rarity be included in the defense of abortion) as long as they do not challenge the compromise of Roe v. Wade. In the broad democratic party, you will find some people who have mixed histories and who profess support for some limits on abortion including big prominent democratic politicians who you have studiously avoided attacking. It is an awkward position for these people and they almost always have to disavow their personal beliefs as subsumed by a political promise to keep them separate. From the standpoint of voters and supporters in terms of supporting these candidates with mixed records it is also awkward but it is not a Bernie or Warren problem. The democratic party position is that it has accepted some personally pro-life politicians like Bob Casey and Biden and Kaine
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)changed her mind some years before. Planned parenthood has not endorsed Parriello. And I could find no info on what he did for planned parenthood...since you know. Perhaps you could send me a link...I did google and don't see anything. I don't trust Perrillio and see no reason for an endorsement...NARAL will fight his campaign by sending in people and money...that means something to me. I think Sen. Warren made a mistake endorsing this guy...sure Sen. Sanders is safe...but Mass is a different story.
Rilgin
(787 posts)Rilgin
(787 posts)In this article you can see that it is not a sudden conversion on his part for this election or just for this election. Here is a quote from the article:
"In 2013 he co-hosted an event in Washington, D.C., held by NARAL Pro-Choice America dubbed Men for Choice. Last year, in an interview for HuffPosts Candidate Confessional podcast, he called Stupak the worst vote of his career.
There is more in that article but if you read this with an open mind I think you will see that your labeling him as anti choice is an exaggeration. He did have one bad vote and is within the range of democratic thought on pro-choice policies and with regard to your one reference he considers it the worst vote of his career.
On planned parenthood, I saw it in an article but I can not find it now but using google I found another article from a right wing site criticizing Perrielo on being a bad catholic and citing Pirrelo's facebook profile which had this quote which should again help you feel some comfort that he is running as pro-choice:
"This weeks assault on Planned Parenthood in Washington represents a vicious attack on womens rights and womens health. I have always been pro-choice and a supporter of Roe v. Wade. I believe that women should have the constitutional right to make their own decisions in consultation with their family and physician and without meddling from politicians. Im proud of the pro-choice votes I took in Congress, including against efforts to restrict funding to Planned Parenthood, and bar the District of Columbia from spending its own money for abortion services.
At the same time, I want to be very clear that I regret my vote on the Stupak-Pitts Amendment. At the time, I had extensive conversations with my constituents in Virginias Fifth and pledged at dozens of public meetings that I would support health care reform only if it was consistent with the Hyde Amendment. I believed at the time that voting for the Stupak amendment was the only way to meet that pledge."
With respect to Hillary and gay marriage. You do know she ran for the Senate in 2000 and ran for President in 2008. Here are two articles (there are many and its easy to check on other quotes) on Hillary's evolution on gay marriage and a few direct quotes from the usatoday (sorry to use that sorry rag but it has direct quotes) article that show all the way until 2013 she resisted full marriage equality although she had an evolving political position testing if she could get away with supporting civil unions as long as it was not marriage.
And to show that again she is not the worst on this issue just has warts, she was not totally dogmatic and started developing acceptance of civil unions while continuing to support DOMA and oppose actual gay marriage as a principle. But you will see that people in the gay community considered her as willing to throw gay rights under the bus as you keep using the term while others who wanted to support her resisted attacking her on that point and pointed to her evolution or tried to defend her positions over time.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/03/20/hillary-clinton-gay-marriage/2001229/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/hillary-clintons-gay-marriage-problem/372717/
Here is a quote from 2000 during her senate race: " "Marriage has historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman," said Clinton
On June 18, 2003, she gave an interview to New York's WNYC, where she affirmed: "You know, marriage has a meaning that ... I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships can't have ... many of the same rights and the same ... respect for their unions that they are seeking. And I would like to see that be more accepted than it is. ... I also think that we can realize the same results for many committed couples by urging that states and localities adopt civil union and domestic partnership laws."
"As late as the 2008 presidential race, Clinton still opposed same-sex marriage, advocating civil unions and leaving the legality of marriage to the states"
"All of this changed this week {the article is from 2013} when Clinton finally supported equal rights rather than some version of the same type of rights for gay married couples], when the Human Rights Campaign, a gay-rights group with which Clinton has personal ties, posted a video where Clinton came out in favor of gay marriage. The timing comes as the U.S. Supreme Court readies to hear two major cases dealing with gay marriage. "LGBT Americans are our colleagues, our teachers, our soldiers, our friends, our loved ones, and they are full and equal citizens and deserve the rights of citizenship," said Clinton. "That includes gay marriage."
Alas, here we are: Hillary Clinton has endorsed gay marriage."
Hopefully, this will help you quell your outrage against Perrielo although you might still prefer Northam as is your right and more questioning as to whether you are actually getting the full story or just being manipulated to feel outrage to fulfill someone elses political goals.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)And I supported Obama in the primary not Secretary Clinton in 2008 and he was not for Gay marriage either, but times have changed and people evolve...but pro-choice is pro-choice...and was a Democratic value in 2008...Perriello did not just have beliefs, he and others like him in the House almost derailed the ACA with the Stupak amendment... which caused lasting damage for insurance coverage in both private and employer based insurance. The Stupak amendment also ended any chance for single payer...now if Perriello was running in a general, I would vote for him...wear a gas mask...but this is a primary with a good pro-choice candidate. I have read about Perrillo's votes on the Nebraska government website so I know exactly what he did...his votes are detailed. And I don't care about your opinion about Hillary Clinton...she is running for nothing and is irrelevant. The they all do it meme doesn't work with me. Perriello is a bad candidate...an opportunist in my opinion...not to be trusted and should not have been endorsed by any Democratic leader or ally.
Rilgin
(787 posts)You asked if we could sacrifice those rights implying that the rights of LBGQ individuals was also something that demanded purity. I know where I stand and have stood for 40 years since the age of 18. I do consider equal rights for everyone as a moral issue. However, there are politicians that you support that have sacrificed elements of absolute support of equal rights for political reasons. I am pretty sure (not absolutely sure) that you have not had the same sense of purity outrage about these candidates.
I am glad you don't care about Hillary. I don't really either at this point but your purity should apply to her and Obama as well and I am sure you will not really do so. However, what you don't say and what would actually make your purity outrage more genuine (rather than another chance to hit on Bernie) would be your outrage at the time against those candidates based on your standards that support for bad law is a line that can not be crossed and is absolutely defining of a candidate years later.
BTW, I sent you an actual link to Bernie's speech in Omaha the other day so you could see that the NYT article you have been using is making up a characterization of that speech rather than accurately reporting. Have you examined it yet? And yes, you have accurately reported what the Times said but are using that to say that the Times is proof that is what Bernie said.
You do know that at one point Mark Twain was called dead by numerous newspapers. When it turned out he was not according to him, which would you believe, the proof of your eyes or the fact that newspapers reported it? Was Mark Twain dead as the Newspapers reported or was he alive using his own words as proof?
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)rights into the discussion...where does it end. I did listen to the tape and the one you sent did not have it...I still can not remove the quotes because it is a New York Times article so I have asked them about it...and will keep you posted.
Rilgin
(787 posts)The problem is all about your attribution. You can use quotes as long as you make clear you are quoting a characterization not an actual quote. Your original post said "he said" followed by "quoted words" which attributes it as an actual quote. It is a mislabeled attribution. But really the issue on this article is the characterization is totally off based as can be seen by anyone listening to the actual speech.
Leaving aside our main thread and just discussing press reporting and manipulation. The article itself exhibited some problems from a reporting standpoint as can be seen internally looking at it. It characterizes a speech but does not provide an actual quote to support its characterization. But if you look further into the article, it characterizes 5 or 6 other people's reactions and points of view on the Nebraska Event but each time after the characterization it uses an actual quote of the person whose viewpoint is characterized. If you look at the article, you will see what I mean. This is a misleading reporter who probably did not actually listen to the speech or he would have characterized it followed by a quote to support his characterization as he did for each other viewpoint he puts in the story. The reporter in this case did not do so for the speech which means he knew that his characterization was not accurate. His main point was to bring the criticism (using actual quotes) front and center. I am pretty sure that his characterizations of the criticism were correct because of his use of actual quotes.
My hope separate from any political points is you question newspaper characterizations of what someone says unless they actually provide a quote.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Does not fit the narrative.
LexVegas
(6,091 posts)Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)All the Dems are support Northam...I have on GOP cousin but working on him. Why even risk the seat with a Perriello run?
LexVegas
(6,091 posts)Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)My family has been in or near Charlottesville since the 1600's.
williesgirl
(4,033 posts)I dont trust the other guy.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)My GOP cousin is starting to dislike Trump...so there may be hope for him...Northam is a very ethical honest guy.
romanic
(2,841 posts)Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)I have never been sick except for pregnancy related stuff...and was hospitalized twice since September so now I have to drink gin made out of potatoes...Maine makes one...taste pretty good...but I will miss the Bombay Sapphire.
drray23
(7,637 posts)I am a Virginian and I support Ralph Northam. Perriello is just an opportunist who never managed to win a statewide election, is anti-choice and cant be bothered to listen to constituents.
Last wednesday my local dem commitee hosted a "meet the candidates" . We reached out to them a couple month ago. Perriello never bothered to answer and even send a staffer. Ralph Northam send his political director, even Mark Herring who is not being primaried send his.
Justin Fairfax who is running to replace Northam as the next lt governor took the 3 hour drive and came in person.
Fairfax is a great guy. Very knowledgeable, intelligent, charismatic and empathic. He blew everybody away. He reminded me if a young Obama ( Also columbia law school btw.) . He will work very well with Northam, they are friends.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)nothing like it.