"I have been on record in favor of a late-pregnancy regulation..."

[Barack_America]

"...that would have exceptions for the life and health of the mother."

Who said that?

-AND-

Who said this?

"I am very strongly pro-choice. That is a choice to be made between a woman, her physician and her family."



(Hints: https://tinyurl.com/hvqb25h https://tinyurl.com/zws2scl)

Lesson: Nobody is perfect and, often, you might agree with the "imperfect" more than you would expect.

[HoneyBadger]

1. Bernie has always been more pro choice than many women

[yallerdawg]

7. Bernie has a constituency and voter base...

that allows him this opinion.

Being a 'Party of One' on the national stage also allows for a certain 'freedom of opinion.'

[Barack_America]

10. Both of these quotes were from people running for the same office.

Same constituency.

[yallerdawg]

13. One of them had the bigger constituency...

and went on to the presidential election.

It would have been very difficult for the other one to change his position because he was running for another office.

[Barack_America]

14. Which quote do you agree with?

Out of curiosity.

[yallerdawg]

15. Roe v Wade legalizes choice up to viablity outside the womb.

Hillary supports the woman's rights (exceptions) into late term.

Bernie says it's not the government's business.

As we noted all along - one is pragmatic, the other is ideal.

I wholeheartedly agree with Bernie - but the "pro-life candidate" won the presidency.

What's the lesson?

[Barack_America]

16. A "pragmatic" Democrat...

...just got tossed under the bus in Nebraska.

Why the double-standard? That's what I don't get. Dems are either allowed to be pragmatic, or they're not. Either forced to be 100% pro-choice in all statements...or not.

[yallerdawg]

18. Down here in Alabama...

we have Democrats running for office who tell us they are morally opposed to abortion - but "it is settled law and no governor, senator, representative, state legislator or judge can change that. Not an issue."

Republicans have campaigned and won for decades on this issue - and women still have the right to choose!

I've lived in the South most of my life, and when women I know wanted an abortion - they got it.

I live a few miles from an abortion clinic here in Montgomery, Alabama!

Pragmatism is recognizing what we have, and accepting that.

I have always liked Bernie's idealism - which works fine in Vermont - but in Omaha, he's singing a different tune. A tune I'm very familiar with.

[emulatorloo]

55. Why are you prolonging this divisive nonsense?

No one here has questioned Bernie's voting record in support of choice.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. "Why are you prolonging this divisive nonsense?"

Man, that's one hell of a good question, isn't it.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Actually, the relevant SCOTUS law is Casey v. Planned Parenthood, not Roe.

The trimester scheme established in Roe was replaced by Casey's standard of "undue burden".

[yallerdawg]

42. No problem.

On abortion issues, I'll start referencing "Casey v Planned Parenthood" so no one will know what the hell I'm talking about.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Just trying to be accurate.

If the question were solely a matter of medical decisions between individuals and their doctors, instead of one involving laws and court decisions, then it would be irrelevant.

But as it is the specific legal decisions are fairly integral to the conversation.

Also, I remember the Casey decision. It was a pretty big deal, at the time.

[yallerdawg]

54. "Viability outside the womb" is the government's compelling interest in the unborn.

Casey v PP upheld this standard as established in Roe v Wade.

The landmark Supreme Court decision regarding access to legal abortion remains Roe v Wade. That is what the anti-abortion forces want to overturn.

There are lots of weeds to get lost in.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Yeah, and if you really ask the driving legal eagles of right-wing Jesusbagger authoritarianism

It's Griswold v. Connecticut that has their nuts in a bunch more than anything.

That "right to privacy" really pisses them off.

[HoneyBadger]

19. Bernie says what he believes in his heart

That should be rewarded.

[yallerdawg]

20. Oh, that's right.

I keep forgetting - he's not a politician.

[stonecutter357]

51. lol!

[NurseJackie]

57. Oooph!

[Demsrule86]

9. His personal view point has nothing to do with the fact he elevates a certain populist economic

message as the only criteria needed for being progressive while viewing social justice issues including but not limited to abortion rights as wedge issues. They are human rights issues...period.

[Squinch]

17. And he goes out of his way to endorse an obscure anti choice mayoral candidate during

the highly publicized unity tour for no apparent reason.

I guess he couldn't find a progressive enough mayoral candidate who was pro choice. In the whole country.

But wait. A mayoral candidate. A mayoral candidate? WTF is that about?

[Demsrule86]

22. Yes he did..and I think it was Jane Kleeb...she

worked for him and is the Democratic chair in Nebraska.

[Squinch]

23. Yep. And the democrats are all at each other's throats, and he says it's no big deal.

I don't believe he is intentionally sabotaging democrats, but if he were he couldn't do any better than he's done.

[Demsrule86]

41. I don't know about that...it seems anyone would see that this would divide Democrats.

[Squinch]

44. I think he's one of those guys who absently lights the match to the explosion and then whistles

his way through the falling debris, wondering where it came from.

[Demsrule86]

48. That could be true...great way of putting it.

I love your posts always written well and interesting.

[Squinch]

50. Well, shoot! Thank you so much!

[Demsrule86]

59. Keep it up!

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. Obscure to you perhaps. And me, but then again I live in New York

One of those safely blue states on the coast. People in my neck of the woods sometimes think that the phrase "The City" can only mean one place; New York City.

But Omaha is the 44th ranked U.S. metropolitan area based by population, hardly obscure. And the candidate you are referring to is hardly obscure in Omaha.

How many Mayoral elections for one of the top 50 Metropolitan Areas do your figure are being held during the Spring of an off off year election? I dare you to find one. And a funny thing about Omaha: Democratic presidential candidates in general take a lot of interest in what goes on there. Why just last year in the waning weeks of the Presidential election campaign one of them spent $167,845 on media buys in the Omaha market, compared to $25,542 spent on media buys in Wisconsin.

Could the fact that the Congressional District that includes Omaha controls its own Electoral College vote under Nebraska's system have anything to do with that?

[Squinch]

25. So it was a good idea to bring national attention to a divisive candidate? There was no reason

for that whatsoever.

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. You do realize that you just moved the goalposts, right?

You had just made your case that it made no sense at all for any leading Democrats to waste time on campaigning for an obscure Mayoral race. I begged to differ on your logic there.

Mello is not considered divisive by Democrats in Nebraska. He isn't in a primary, he is the Democratic candidate, and he has broad based local support among Democrats in Nebraska who like his positions on immigration, on public education, on environment issues, and the fact that he has pledged to support pro-choice policies in Omaha whereas the Republican he is running against is anti-abortion.

[Squinch]

27. No. I didn't move the goal posts. If the candidate has broad local support there was

no reason why Sanders had to make a special stop on the unity tour to endorse a candidate who has been a major mover of anti-choice legislation right up until - what was it, last week?

It's bullshit.

[Tom Rinaldo]

28. By that token no one needed to campagn for Hillary in PA last fall

There is a difference between having "broad local support" and having the race "in the bag."

It's hard for Democrats to win in Nebraska, Omaha now has a Republican Mayor. Firing up the base, as we all know, can make the critical difference between winning and losing.

[Squinch]

30. Talk about moving the goal posts. There was no reason that the unity tour had to make a

special stop so Bernie could show support for a local candidate who has a terrible record on choice. A candidate who has, until suspiciously recently, acted against the Democratic platform.

I get that you think a woman's ownership of her own body is not an issue that is important enough to stand up for consistently and loudly. Have fun with that.

[DURHAM D]

2. I don't like the family part.

Obama said the same thing in the 2008 primary.

Is a woman supposed to consult with her 5 year old son? That is just stupid. Didn't like it 2008 and don't like it in 2014.

[guillaumeb]

3. Perhaps the family part was referring to a partner? eom

[Ilsa]

6. I agree. I wouldn't talk to my family, whether

it was family of origin or the family I helped create. At most, I'd discuss it with my partner. The doctor is there to provide information prior to a procedure, not to help me sort out whether I'm making the "right" decision.

[demmiblue]

4. First statement: a man (Kaine?), second statement: a woman...

you tell me, I don't click on blind links.

[Barack_America]

8. Sorry, I had to Tiny them so they wouldn't give away the answer.

The first link goes to Mother Jones and the second to CBS News.

Both quotes are by recent Presidential candidates.

[demmiblue]

11. I see.

I'll check it out tomorrow... too tired to think/read right now.

[boston bean]

5. Not this again. My god.

[Barack_America]

12. Ah, we appear to have a winner?

Seems you recognize them?

Out of curiosity, which do you agree with more?

[Demsrule86]

43. Do you think I care about cherry picked quotes...when we have leadership supporting a candidate

that voted for a 20 week ban on abortion and to restrict insurance coverage on abortion? The guy is anti-choice...he should never have been endorsed-sure put on a gas mask and vote for him if he is the only Democratic candidate and the other choice is a repug if you are unfortunate enough to live there,but no endorsement and no rally...period. This so called unity tour has divided Democrats...which makes wonder...is this an accident or it deliberate? I don't know the answer to that question. But Democrats should be wary of anymore bullshit unity that is anything but.

[countryjake]

31. Again? DU has been ablaze with this very topic all week long!

Whenever we decide to run with someone who does not fully support all of our hard-won Women's Rights, those candidates who would willingly compromise and concede any of those rights, just to "reach across the aisle" in the hopes of winning a few votes from conservatives, the result will almost certainly be perceived as a slap across the face to millions of progressive women.

[SaschaHM]

32. They are talking about the string of OPs trying to make light of the issue...

and those that a rightfully furious with what has occurred by comparing to a statement by some other Democratic politician without context in order to justify the whole Mello situation i.e. "But what about Tim Kaine"

[countryjake]

33. Context is there are moderate Democrats who oppose abortion

...personally and publicly, and there are some politicians who have allowed their own dichotomies on women's right to abortion to worm into the national conversation, government legislation, and even the DNC Party Platform.

I do not like it when male politicians in my party do such things and that includes both Mello and Sen. Kaine, but I especially will not tolerate such a stance from a woman.

There is no state on Earth worse than that of an unwanted child.

[LostOne4Ever]

21. That is a large part of the reason I support him!

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]He is one of the most socially liberal politicians in the nation [/font]

[Warren DeMontague]

29. I'm going to guess that the first politician also said "I believe marriage is not just a bond, but

a sacred bond, between a man and a woman"

[bettyellen]

34. Do we have any progressives fighting to allow abortion on healthy 8 1/2 mo fetus?

Aka "no restrictions". Are we really going to pretend this is a real political goal or even remotely thoughtful policy?

It appears to be thoughtlessly phoning it in. Which makes sense since it's an expendable policy.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Of course not. But pandering is pandering.

It's very simple, as far as I'm concerned. The person making the decisions should be the woman whose body it is. No one else is qualified.

It's also a right-wing meme to say women are running around pregnant for 8 mos. and getting abortions just for the hell of it. It's not even a real issue, so why should our pols pretend that it is?

[bettyellen]

37. Exactly! Why would anyone pretend that no restrictions at all are workable? It's fucking insane.

Last edited Sat Apr 29, 2017, 12:06 AM - Edit history (1)

It's a god damned farce, but I guess people who've spent zero time studying the issue think it sounds great. It's disturbing that people would just accept this no restrictions nonsense without a second thought. Literally no one has ever fought for that. Someone should explain this to him.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Why make 'restrictions' for something that isnt actually a problem?

Of course, people who have studied the issue know that situations where women require late term abortions are generally the most tragic, medically, and -albeit rare- exactly the kind of circumstances that you dont want legislators involving themselves in.

http://www.self.com/story/viral-story-of-a-late-term-abortion

[bettyellen]

39. You think we should fight for completely unrestricted access to abortion till viability?

That's crazy shit. Unfortunately, if it was legal I'm sure some would do it. Not everyone has good judgement- some people are horribly cruel.

I've never met a person who believed in NO restrictions- it's not a position that has ANY support in our society. The vast majority of people believe that very late term pregnancies 71/2 -9 months at a minimum, should only be terminated for legit heath reasons. This is why no one involved in reproductive rights argues for totally unrestricted abortion- aside from being a total waste of time most people who have huge moral issues with it. There's no two ways about it. So why pretend it's even a viable position to have- let alone a "more progressive" one? That's an absolute load of shit.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. I believe it is a solution in search of a problem that doesnt exist.

Im saying that the idea that women are running around terminating that late for anything other than legit heatlh reasons, is itself a right wing lie. Doctors wont perform them and women dont have them.

Why has NARAL been steadfastly against these late term abortion bans? For the reasons Ive outlined, here.

[Demsrule86]

46. It is late term legislation (20 week ban) such as Mello supported that forces women to carry a

catastrophically damaged fetus with little hope for any sort of life to term or a fetus that died in the womb-how cruel is that? Somehow the anti-abortion crowd which includes Mello based on his voting record seems to believe that some how God will save them , bring them back to life...who the hell knows. I only wish such folks had as much regard for children after their birth. People with anti-choice voting records can not be normalized in our party by endorsement or by staging political rallies.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. I believe these decisions should be left up to individual women and their doctors.

I do not believe legislators are particularly well equipped to make these decisions about the bodies of women theyve never met, in situations they dont know about.

Im pro choice, obviously, but we should not pretend this is the first time this has come up. Harry Reid had an anti-choice voting record, that was part of the debate over making him then-majority leader.

[Demsrule86]

53. I agree completely. And as for Harry Reid...he did not support anti-choice legislation...that is

where we should draw the line...remember the Stupak crowd of conservadems almost derailed the ACA with the Stupak amendment which was one of the worst anti-choice bills I have ever seen; it probably cost us single payer as well.

I voted for Tim Ryan (called himself pro-life) before he changed his position on abortion rights... as far as I know, he did not vote on the issue in an anti-choice manner... but I never worked for his campaign before he changed his mind...and I contributed to the DNC and other candidates...but I won't contribute to an anti-choice Democrat so I never funded his campaign. I do expect my party to support women's rights which includes abortion rights...but I would always vote for the Democrat if the other choice is a Republican.

[Demsrule86]

45. You are ok with a 20 week ban? Really...well I am not..nor with voting to stop insurance from

covering abortion...seriously?

[emulatorloo]

52. Primary's over.

[yallerdawg]

56. This issue is not over.

Is There Any Room in the 'Big Tent' for Pro-Life Democrats?

Democratic leaders have tried to walk a fine line by emphasizing that the party stands for protecting women’s access to abortion, while signaling that there is still room for Democrats who oppose abortion. It’s not clear, however, whether and to what extent party leaders will tolerate any deviations, in either personal beliefs or policy stands, from full-throated support for the pro-abortion rights party platform.

[emulatorloo]

58. Understood. But this thread imho is more about "personalities" than policy