General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFlame away, but I support the antifa.
I'm not pro-violence in an overall sense, but I'm not a pacifist.
I think the forces of "White Nationalists" (Nazis), and other fascist movements have to be met with a show of strength, because that's all they understand.
I used to think that fascism in this country was limited to a few, small fringe groups. I now see that I was wrong, and that it is a disturbingly large movement that seems to be growing.
We who are not privileged to be White, Straight, Christian Men are targets of violence in our own homeland, a situation encouraged by our sitting president. That is not an acceptable situation.
Isn't one of DU's "official" avatars Malcolm X?
"By any means necessary."
still_one
(92,395 posts)Coventina
(27,172 posts)But if advocating fighting back is prohibited by DU, they need to get rid of the Malcolm X avatar.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Fascist governments like violent dissent because it provides a justification for a retrenchment on civil liberties. They also use it to delegitimize peaceful dissent. Nothing I said should be construed as suggesting I don't believe in vigorous self defense. Here is Malcolm X on the issue, " Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. " If a NAZI hits you hit him or her back !
Coventina
(27,172 posts)It's a no-win situation with fascists.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)The one the weekend of the Inauguration was glorious.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)Now their claim is that their rights are being trampled, and they show up to cause trouble.
It's being planned today in Kentucky.
TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts).
We've all been in situations where we try to avoid conflict and someone else seems to provoke engagement.
Another key to Fascism is that, silence will allow their voice to spread, while gaining legitimacy.
Sooner or later, whether by shear numbers and strength or a perceived strategic advantage, they will ignite something.
It's inevitable. It actually starts to come down to who will be setting the terms for it.
.
MedusaX
(1,129 posts)Prohibit those in power from infringing upon the inalienable, constitutional, and any other legally established rights of the people....
Then it becomes necessary to defend those rights by any means necessary.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)There are people on the left adopting the terminology, the hate, and the arrogance of the alt-right. Sure the beliefs are different, but does it really matter if the actions are the same?
I'm not flaming you, I watched the punching of Richard Spenser and laughed and shared it. But no, it is wrong and it is counter-productive.
I also believe violence is like a flame, it can spread out of control so quickly and then suddenly the wrong people are getting burned. Happens every time a demonstration isn't peaceful. Innocent bystanders lose property, get injured or in some parts of the world, get killed.
Maybe I am the naïve one, but if I'm going to stand for principles, I'm going to stand all the way...
Coventina
(27,172 posts)The Communists were the only ones speaking out about the fact that Netherlandish Jews were going to become targets. (The Nazi government denied this).
They encouraged strikes and peaceful resistance. It got them executed.
Guess what? It turned out they were right. The Netherlandish Jews ended up in concentration camps.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Overstate things much?
Honestly, grow up.
Coventina
(27,172 posts)Never claim you weren't warned.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)rather in merely slinging insults.
We all know that Trump would suspend the Constitution in a heartbeat (just like Hitler did with the Enabling Act) if he thought he could get away with it. He would prefer to rule by decree, relying upon his willing executioners and "good Germans" to make his decrees happen
ck4829
(35,091 posts)to him possibly winning the 'election', and now we're supposed to "grow up" again when we raise concerns after we see them at a rally calling for the deaths of liberals or having a meeting and asking when the killings can begin for Muslim Americans?
Can we afford to be fooled a third time?
ck4829
(35,091 posts)We've got the Nathan Damigo and Richard Spencer types with their calls for violence, direct violence like how we saw in Quebec or with Adam Purinton or in that coffee shop yesterday, stochastic terrorism... they really are the Dylann Roof and Adam Lanza Wannabes that is also known as the Alt Right, and it's disturbing that the Trump Administration, Republican Congress, and moderate Trump supporters aren't denouncing them. Is their silence complicity?
Coventina
(27,172 posts)Steve Bannon is in the White House.
Fascism is HERE, folks.
To not recognize it is to put your head in the sand.
Canoe52
(2,949 posts)the cockroachs run back into the darkness.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)David__77
(23,503 posts)...
sarisataka
(18,770 posts)violence in response to violence. I cannot, however, support pre-emptive violence. A show of strength is fine but "they" have to take the first swing.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)Antifa hasn't asked for my approval of its actions or tactics and I'm pretty sure they don't give a fuck.
Personally, I think direct violent or confrontational action -- if that's your cup of tea -- is fine as long as it's smart, well-planned, and targeted to have an impact.
I'd might add that even stupid and possibly counterproductive action is preferable to sitting around doing nothing, in my opinion.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)ck4829
(35,091 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Support your local Antifa movement. Also join the anarchist inspired IWA (International Workers Association) and IWW (Industrial Workers of the World: One Big Union!).
We're trying to change the world a little bit at a time.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)committed to your extermination.
KG
(28,752 posts)dembotoz
(16,832 posts)Initech
(100,102 posts)If you show up with ski masks and crowbar and an intent to commit violence, doesn't matter which side you're on, you are a tool of fascism and adding more fuel for the police state.