Hillary was right about the "Deplorables".

[kentuck]

They are deplorable. They are racist and xenophobic, also.

They cheer for the worst of America. Rudeness and crudeness and name-calling is OK with them. They seem to enjoy throwing mud on the rest of America?

There is no more denial. They have proven themselves to be just as deplorable now as they were during the campaign. If the rest of the nation believed as they do, America would not be a country worth defending, or living in, for that matter.

[fun n serious]

1. Yes and she was right to call them out. nt

[PoliticAverse]

5. The "deplorable" comment was a tactical error which is why she tried to mitigate the damage...

by apologizing for it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. The Kinsley Rule

A gaffe is when a politician tells the truth.

As a campaign tactic it was a mistake. As an observation there was a lot of truth in it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. The "gaffe" was iniially saying "half"

It made every potential Trump voter think there was a 50% chance she was personally insulting them. It put the focus in the wrong place. Hillary was right to point out that virtually every overtly racist, fascist, despot loving white nationalist misogynist scumbag in the nation was openly celebrating Trump. That was as clear a sign as you can get that a vote for Trump could not be rationalized by anyone for any reason.

[Norbert9]

15. My gut tells me she didn't lose many who would have truly considered voting for her anyways

Just gave his base something to whine about. And we know they love to whine.

[PoliticAverse]

22. I don't think it was about losing votes I think it was about motivating people...

to actually go and vote for Trump on election day as a vote against her.

[Norbert9]

35. I see your point. But wasn't turnout mediocre as usual?

Last edited Sun Apr 30, 2017, 02:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I guess I have the habit of assuming turnout doesn't change much. That being said, 2020 or bust.

[golfguru]

136. ding ding ding...we have a winner!

Now ask ourselves honestly, who is most likely to MOTIVATE voters to get out and vote in 2020? That should be our candidate.

[Skittles]

164. SOMEONE NEW

[kentuck]

166. Or someone the other Party has not spent 30 years attempting to define in the most negative way...

Give them time and they will define, in a "character" way, any Democrat that chooses to run. That is who they are.

[Skittles]

168. yes, SOMEONE NEW

[leftofcool]

189. I haven't seen anyone yet.

Who ever it is better be a registered Democrat, Black, and female.

[golfguru]

192. I wish JFK Jr was alive

He would be the best democratic candidate ever.
Alas...he died in a plane crash.

[StevieM]

43. From what I can tell it was a much bigger deal when she stumbled on 9/11.

Which is pretty crazy--she had a sick day and people made her out to be some kind of bad guy for it.

[Amimnoch]

175. Which is extremely ironic considering Trump on 9/11.

Who held an interview and said

"40 Wall street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually before the World Trade Center the tallest, and then when they built the World Trade Center it became known as the second-tallest, and now it’s the tallest " - Donald Trump September 11, 2001.

So... Worst attack on US soil since World War II, and he was bragging about how it now made his building the tallest (which was a lie in itself as well).

So, a little stumble on an anniversary of the event, or a HUGE gaffe on the actual date of the attack itself.. hmm. hard to discern which is the worst thing...

[KingCharlemagne]

19. Unless you have links to data showing otherwise, I would argue that

NOT ONE SINGLE VOTER changed his or her vote because of the "deplorable" comment.

So how was it a tactical error?

[PoliticAverse]

25. You don't insult your opponents' supporters because it gives them motivation to actually...

show up and vote. You want those voters to be ambivalent and stay home election day. I don't assume that
comment caused anyone to switch from Clinton to Trump, I do believe it caused some people leaning Trump to
actually show up on election day and vote.

[JHan]

28. Yes, for a whole year,

Pundits and the Political class parsed Trump's words and said shit like "Yeah he's saying awful stuff but we don't know what's in his heart".

Clinton comes out and points to the truth of it and she's hammered for pointing out the truth of it - I thought people liked Truth in politics or is it only truth you like?

And it's funny that the second half of her statement that addressed the frustrated Trump supporter who was angry at D.C didn't get as much attention.

yeah, whatever America.

[KingCharlemagne]

37. In a non-polarized electorate, I would agree with you. Is there any data

that Hillary's "deplorable" vote motivated a single lean-Trump voter? Or is is still just your plausible inference?

[PoliticAverse]

62. I think that is something that would be hard to show by data. Perhaps the Clinton campaign...

had some polling data that showed the statement hurt her and that is what motivated her
later comment that she "regretted" it.

My inference is based on how the "deplorable" issue seemed to have become a rallying cry
among Trump supporters with signs, T-shirts, etc. I think there was a significant number of
Trump voters that voted against Clinton as much as for Trump.

Elections in the US don't have a very high turnout, this means there's a large portion of your
opponent's supporters aren't going to show up to vote on election day - not giving them a reason
to show up is just important as motivating your supporters to show up.

[StevieM]

44. As I wrote in the post right above yours, I think it was a small thing. Stumbling on 9/11 caused

a downturn in the polls for her at that point.

Which is pretty insane in its own right.

[redstateblues]

60. My sister took it personally and she is not a racist

That comment pushed her over the edge

[Ninsianna]

132. Then why did she take it personally?

Calling out the deplorable behavior of the racists and the sexists who supported trump caused her to vote for the blatant racism, misogyny of the guy who surrounds himself with nazis?

[MrPurple]

134. It was poorly nuanced and unwise just like when she said...

"I'm going to put a lot of coal miners out of work". Obviously, she is the one who would help the unemployed miners with health care, funds for retraining, etc. & Trump isn't going to bring their jobs back, but her quote allowed them to mimscharacterize her.

[cheapdate]

178. We lost states that had gone Democratic

by razor thin margins, PA, MI, WI, OH.

As difficult as it might be for us to understand or accept, there are apparently significant numbers of voters who can go either way, and in those states many of them did. I can't help but believe that the "deplorable" remark figured into some of the swing voter's decisions.

[Ninsianna]

30. It was an honest one, and you might want to take a closer listen to her "apology".

[nikibatts]

138. Yeah, truth is always a tactical error.

[trueblue2007]

151. I agree with her 10000000%. MSNBC interviewed some of TRUMP's supporters this weekend

and these people totally LIED about Trump and his supposed accomplishments. Of which THERE ARE NONE.

[Cosmocat]

187. Probably not, BUT if she did

She made a major mistake walking back from it.

Say and own it, something Rs fully understand.

[PJMcK]

2. Deplorable isn't the right word

Trump's supporters are un-American.

And they're idiots.

[amuse bouche]

158. Could not agree more

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. Yes. She was right about most things.

[safeinOhio]

4. Every one that opposed trump

were correct to some extent.

[fun n serious]

6. She not only opposed Trump. She called out the people who supported him for Racial reasons

They're more than deplorable. They're soul-less scum

[William Seger]

18. Yes, they are, but...

... there are different ways to say the same thing. An inspiring politician should always frame things in a positive way, as I think Obama always tried to do.

[fun n serious]

21. In this case, it called for someone to point out their ugliness in an aggressive way.

[William Seger]

24. Yes, but it could be done without personalizing it

E.g. "Let us not give in to the ugliness of bigotry."

[RKP5637]

27. I agree with you. From a tactical point, it could have gone unsaid IMO. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. But she unlike a lot of others, held people accountable for their racism

Instead of inventing shit like 'economic anxiety'

[fun n serious]

20. Very true.

[jaysunb]

143. +1000 n/t

[2naSalit]

14. Even way back when...

as she identified this vast RW conspiracy that we now see clear as day, running our nation into a pit of destruction.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. indeed

[roamer65]

7. They are enemies of liberty.

They need to be put in their correct context. They oppose the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness for all who do not match their bigoted, narrow vision of the world.

[The Wizard]

156. I urge everyone to use

the word liberty. It comes from the same root as liberal. See if they make liberty a pejorative like they did liberal.

[spanone]

8. and their 'president' is the lead deplorable

[Wounded Bear]

11. Unfortunately, being right does not always guarantee success...

[malaise]

12. That simple

Rec

[world wide wally]

16. These are the enemy that feed Trump

Don't give them credit for anything less

[Lil Missy]

17. morons and knuckle draggers.

my words the day after the election

[RKP5637]

29. Yep! Some were then caught up in the lies of Trump believing him. All Trump voters IMO can't

be lumped into the same group with the same motivations.

[Ninsianna]

31. No they did not. Deplorable was the term attached to the racist, Nazi

Bannonite portion of Donnie's supporters, the David Dukes, the KKK, the hard right that seek to hate anyone who doesn't look like them.

They didn't vote for Obama, they were the ones who lost their heads and were frothing at the mouth.

[tonedevil]

38. It was a bold...

true statement Secretary Clinton only wavered after those who should have had her back began their feavered clucking. She said half of Donald supporters and she qualified the behavior that defined them. All of them immediately recognized what they were. Timidness when bravery was called for lost that battle.

[tonedevil]

46. Yes it gave many...

Democrats the vapors. That is one of the top reasons we lose. It was a defensible statement it exposed a large percentage of Donald supporters for what they are. We could have pushed the definition asking if the offended are supporting sexism, racism, or both. I am sorry if it bothers you to call such behaviors and by extention the practitioners deplorable, but I think they are and I think they should be challenged.

[Cha]

124. Those assholes were never going to leave trump ever.

[Cha]

123. Yeah, Hillary told the truth about the racist asshole trump

fans.

[karynnj]

153. This is not about telling the truth

What if a Republican had said half the people voting for a Democrat were deplorable or immoral. His/her supporters might agree maybe referencing the SC and abortion.

1) it sounds arrogant to attack a whole group of people because they do not support you.

2) one part of her plan was to win many Republican women. Suggesting she sees their husband's and fathers as deplorable might make that less likely.

[hrmjustin]

42. Do you think that his supporters are deplorable?

[tonedevil]

47. Less than half...

Of Donald voters ever voted for President Obama.

[tonedevil]

55. You want...

racists and sexists on our side? That is who Secretary Clinton addressed and that is who we should have taken the fight to when she opened that up.

[tonedevil]

72. None of them objected to...

overt racism and sexism so they are that casual with it. They were able to be bought with an obvious economic fantasy so there may have been some who could have been persuaded on that. I will remain disappointed Democrats didn't rally behind her on that one it only shows cowardice and deplorables just tore at us like a rabid dog.

[hrmjustin]

80. Did you vote for Hillary in November?

[tonedevil]

83. Are you saying...

Secretary Clinton ran an overtly racist sexist campaign? Are you saying Donald did not? Are you suggesting that opening your campaign with an insult to Mexico and its people is on a par with the superpredator statement in the 1990s? Donald voters either are racist and sexist or they don't care if the president is to the point of empowering racists and sexists that is demonstrable.

[tonedevil]

97. Speak for yourself...

in that regard if you think there is equivalence. I mentioned in my last post and will say it again I think a deep dislike of Secretary Clinton is inhabiting much of what you write.

[tonedevil]

110. I could point to...

a number of Senator Sanders detractors for whom his very breathing is evidence of his evil. I won't because they are a strong cabal and I would likely find myself on permaban. So I don't disagree with what you just wrote. I can't say Secretary Clinton particularly inspired me, but I did cast my vote her way on election day with no reservation.
Where I'm disconnecting with you is how deeply racist and sexist the Donald campaign was and that racism and sexism was what won the election for him. It was so overt and even celebrated. We the Democratic party should have chased them back under their rocks.

[emulatorloo]

131. I'll remind you that Bernie voted for the crime bill.

So you might want to stop your disingenuous arguments while your ahead.

[hrmjustin]

49. This is ridiculous!

First they voted for a Nazi so therefore they are all deplorable.

Second Hillary supporters were not saying they don't need Sanders supporters. We knew we needed them.

[hrmjustin]

61. Oh please!

It was a hard fought primary on both sides and both sides said a lot of things. Sanders supporters did the right thing and voted for Hillary because they knew what they were getting with Trump.

[hrmjustin]

68. They made a bad decision and I they have themselves to blame.

And Trump supporters are still deplorable!

[hrmjustin]

71. There is no evidence that Sanders would have won.

[hrmjustin]

74. those same polls were wrong about last November so they don't have much credibility.

[emulatorloo]

115. Same polls showed HRC winning as well

Those kind of early polls are meaningless.

[Skittles]

169. maybe she DID WIN

there's no telling what the Russian interference actually did

[emulatorloo]

170. Agreed!

[lapucelle]

87. Are you saying that it was

the BoBs and Steiners who cost Democrats the election and were instrumental in putting Trump in the White House?

Senator Sanders himself begged them not to do that.

[irisblue]

101. Refighting the last primary isn't going to help.

[irisblue]

104. And no more Clinton bashing as well. Lets move forward and move that orange fool out of our

government.

[Squinch]

112. Geez. People used to be better at this. Training standards must be going way downhill.

[emulatorloo]

117. Lol n/t

[Cha]

118. No more BS insulting the Democratic Party.

[emulatorloo]

126. Your memory is incorrect. Sanders supporter here. That 'theory' you're touting

was a lie from the very beginning and it was diseminated by disrupters, bad actors and liars.

[Cha]

139. Hey Justin..

he's gone..

[hrmjustin]

141. Not surprised based on what he said.

Thanks Cha!

[Cha]

142. I know.. he gave himself

enough rope.

[R B Garr]

51. It wasn't Hillary's campaign that made people "alienated." It was divisive rhetoric smearing

her back in 2015 that did that. A simple glance at Trump's campaign shows he picked up the divisive attacks on her where they left off in June/July 2016.

[Ninsianna]

48. It was specifically and distinctly made when she made it. The words matter.

It was always made, but the spin from the people who don't understand words, and don't bother listening to anything she said overwhelmed things like listening to the words on the video and the quoted words.

There is an argument to be made for people to not make such a distinction, since economic reasons were a poor reason to vote for Trump, and these people saw the racism, saw the misogyny, saw the Nazis and thought, I'll still vote for this guy and hope he doesn't do what he says he's going to with my healthcare, and that he'll somehow bring back an industry that I've known has been floundering for years.

People's failure to believe their own eyes and ears about what she actually said is not a "huge tactical error" and she was well aware of what she was saying, because THOSE words were also not a backpedal.

It was true and it needed saying, it's a huge tactical error to pretend that words don't matter, and that "economic anxiety" can be used to cover what actually went on here with the racism and the misogyny. Let's not do that.

[tonedevil]

59. You are so right...

and you say it so well.

[Ninsianna]

116. Thank you!

[emulatorloo]

119. Voters whose top concern was economy voted for Clinton

Voters whose top concern was "immigration" or "terrorism" voted for Trump.

Check the exit polling. Folks with economic anxiety voted Democratic.

The underlying rhetoric Trump used about immigration and terrorism was very racist.

This is why the initial theory that Trump won because of 'economic anxiety' is False.

You are entitled to your opinion but you aren't entitled to your own set of facts.

And you're not entitled to smear people telling the truth as "speaking from a position of privilege."

[Ninsianna]

130. When you use "economic reasons" to cover for obvious and blatant misogyny

and racism, when the candidate they're supporting is telling them that his goals are to take away their healthcare and bring back industries they know very well are not coming back.

This level of denial and the obvious confusion about the group being addressed here (Trump voters or someone else?) is what speaks to someone who has a position of privilege.

Someone who doesn't understand that these positions taken by men like Trump who dismiss the concerns of minorities and women literally threaten their LIVES.

Trump wasn't fooling anyone, and neither is anyone who is denying that things like racism and misogyny exist, and that they need to be addressed. Being soft of human rights is something that only someone with privilege and the firm realization that HIS life, and HIS body will never be sacrificed on the altar of political convenience.

If you can vote for a guy who speaks like he does, has the history that he does, who incites violence against women and minorities, you don't get to pretend that you're not supporting racism, misogyny or the Nazis he surrounds himself with, you saw them, you heard lies, and you voted for who and what this man was, and you don't get to pretend that you didn't know what you were doing.

Only someone from a place of privilege gets to put their personal economic concerns over the very existence and security of others.

[emulatorloo]

135. MIRT took action

Guy joined today, obvious troll. PPR'd

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=342652

[Ninsianna]

140. What's MIRT?

I just joined the other day myself, which apparently makes me a Russian troll according to some people, but only if I don't refrain from criticism of a certain politician.

He did seem a little confused though, I think he forgot who he was supposed to be defending, but it's clear who he aimed to attack.

[irisblue]

159. Malicious Intruder Response Team

Volunteers who toss trolls off the board. Under the announcements tab, is the list of this terms volunteers. And the troll that was tossed, 2 hides in less the 12 hours, well troll smell was strong.

[Ninsianna]

160. The troll patrol? Awesome.

Thank you for answering my question.

That guy was rather active and a bit confused, I'm not sure he understood who he was even defending.

[emulatorloo]

163. Welcome to DU!

Gets a little rough and tumble here now and again, but I bet you are going to enjoy it here!

[Ninsianna]

173. Thank you!

I expect a good rollicking debate on a liberal site I guess that's how we know who the trolls are, they're not so good at that.

[The Wizard]

157. There's no nice way to say Nazi

And putting a finger in their faces and saying shut the fuck up. You and I both know you're lying is a very effective strategy. Don't use logic and reason. They just repeat the talking points. Get in their faces. They deserve our vituperative outrage.

[kentuck]

165. Of, By, and For the People...

As George Lakoff, the linguist, has stated, the "For" the people means that we have to care about each other. It is more than just words.

[lapucelle]

78. Hillary made the distinction quite clear.

But for some, it's easier to buy into Trump spin and a media narrative that stoked ratings rather than actually read two paragraphs.

"I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."

But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/sep/11/context-hillary-clinton-basket-deplorables/

[lapucelle]

90. They are certainly worth being reminded

or convinced anew that it is the Democratic party that has worked in their interest for generations.

[tonedevil]

34. Not so much...

Secretary Clinton said half of Donald supporters. I don't think many from the deplorable section of Donald supporters voted for President Obama. It is interesting how quickly you come to defend sexist racist behavior though.

[Ninsianna]

52. It wasn't ambiguous at all.

Racist and sexist behavior is being covered up as "economic anxiety" and the spin seems to be that words don't matter, and clear and distinct words are somehow "ambiguous", they were not.

Allowing the racists and the misogynists to frame the narrative by ignoring the fact that words have meanings and her words are on the record is a huge tactical error.

These people voted for racism and misogyny, they saw it all, it wasn't ambiguous, and everyone knows that perfectly well.

[Ninsianna]

76. Because they were misogynistic.

The narrative is perfectly resilient to scrutiny. Some thought that voting for him meant they were not racists, she told them otherwise. That's much harder to hear from an accomplished woman who threatens you, is white, and is correct.

[Ninsianna]

82. Since her message is the same as Hillary's was, this is an odd assumption.

Especially since she receives the same sort of vile abuse from them, not just the Republican deplorable either.

It's odd that you think that republican deplorables would somehow be receptive to her message when they hate the message, and cheer and applaud when she's attacked.

Even the left engaged in this deplorable behavior when she dared to support the candidate. It wasn't ambiguous and it was very clear and all over her twitter feed, her facebook page and on message boards all over the internet.

There is no denying the misogyny, the evidence simply won't let that lie stand.

[JHan]

86. "Alot of people viewed that as betrayal"

Yes a lot of people are stupid.

[hrmjustin]

92. Did you vote for Hillary in November?

[JHan]

95. As a politician she is entitled to endorse whoever the fuck she wants especially..

if she endorses someone familiar with the executive branch and whose main focus would have been good governance. It was NOT a poor endorsement, it was a WISE endorsement.

My point stands.

[JHan]

103. If your argument is that we lost because Warren endorsed Clinton..

then progressives deserved this setback to their agenda.

Utter ridiculousness.

[tonedevil]

91. You personally...

don't care much for Secretary Clinton do you? You certainly write with what seems like a loy of contempt. I think you are quick to dismiss racism and sexism. I believe they are very much responsible for the results of the last national election.

[JHan]

105. ++++++

[JHan]

108. What kills me is the lack of this simple truth:

we needed hillary far more than she needed us. If some progressives understood game theory this would have occured to them- it's about furthering the agenda, not the individuals, and who best - given the choices before you - to further that agenda. Sanders lost the primaries by popular vote and delegates. No history revisionism will change that.

Hillary's life is comfortable, she's a rich woman. But progressives can afford to not be "inspired" and some of them are still super upset Warren endorsed Clinton. SCOTUS seat gone, EPA and Wall ST regulations about to be rolled back, brown people deported and singled out, an Attorney General who cares little for civil liberties and the ish I described which partly enabled Trump is being sold with a straight face... STILL.

[tonedevil]

113. You seem to be...

wound a bit tight.

[JHan]

122. everyone should be.

If you're not "wound tight" and don't get the perils in front of us, then you're insulated.

anger is a perfectly justifiable emotion right now, just needs to be channeled effectively.

[tonedevil]

125. The last...

half dozen words you wrote, I don't think we are in agreement as to how that looks.

[JHan]

128. I don't know what your disagreement is, I'm no psychic.

I typed* some words, you haven't pointed out your beef with them.

[emulatorloo]

137. ...

PPR'd now. Pretty obvious troll IMHO. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=342652

[Ninsianna]

114. So, when she was a Republican, she was more progressive than Hillary

who was actually making progress?

No one is suggesting she's not popular, but it's rather odd to think that Trump voters would be receptive to her message. Her "lot" was always with Hillary, with whom she shared issues and a closely matching voting record.

It wasn't "a lot of people" it was a few disaffected people online, a lot of people saw the abuse and the backlash and figured out that this wasn't about progressive ideals at all for some of these people. The same ones who were attacking Planned Parenthood, the Democratic party, its candidate, its voters, and the core principles of liberals/progressives/Democrats, were attacking her.

It is misogyny and the ease and the viciousness with which they turned on her proves exactly what was going on.

Trump voters were not fond of Elizabeth Warren, they rejected the message that she, Hillary and the Democrats have always presented. Suggesting otherwise is a rather strange thing to do.

[Demit]

120. You have no way of knowing what reception Warren would get until she runs for president.

I don't know who the "same people" you refer to are, but it's easy for people to say they support someone in a hypothetical. As a convenient cover for their misogyny. Let's see if her reception is as warm when/if she runs for president.

[JHan]

57. it's not the same as Romney's statement.

Romney's statement was a negative pejorative comment about the most vulnerable of society relying on the social safety net - the social safety net which is a hallmark of any civilised country.

Clinton pointed out the deplorableness of people who sought to vote a man in office who would be mean to the most vulnerable and enact policies designed to marginalize them.

Comparing Romney to Clinton on this is disingenous as fk.

[oasis]

41. Many of Trump's Deplorables are dyed-in-the-wool misogynists.

That would, in part, explain what happened there. It's not easy explaining the mindset of so many millions of ignorant people.

[Squinch]

111. That's just not true in most cases. Trump tapped a group that usually don't vote, and some

Obama voters stayed home.

And Trump voters are, at the very least, deplorable.

[Cha]

121. So? If they voted for trump they're freaking Deplorable

Besides.. if you get Hillary's quote right.. she said 1/2 of trump's supporters.

[tonedevil]

32. A failure of...

the Democratic party was not defending that statement. It was a brilliant setup and many in our party dropped the ball. Secretary Clinton said half immediately nearly all Donald supporters were sure it was them. Instead of backing off and chastising her for her intemperance I think we should have been pointing out how well the shoe seemed to fit and that obviously she had vastly underestimated the percentage.
Our candidate made a bold statement and we didn't rally, we didn't defend her, we criticized her. Donald supporters have proven the percentage of them who are deplorable far exceeds 50%. We should have taken the fight to them.

[WellDarn]

39. Most certainly she was correct.

The people to which Secretary Clinton was referring are definitely deplorable.

The problem is that the term is far too nebulous. That creates the danger that it becomes a receptacle into which one can throw everyone who disagrees with them. The right wing propaganda machine -- which is even below deplorable -- used that vagueness to claim that she was attacking on a personal level all Republicans and all independents who disagreed with her.

I'm not sure that is how to win friends and influence people, so, as much as I agree with her, I can't say it wasn't a mistake.

[tonedevil]

50. A Democratic party...

that would fight could have pointed out how quickly all Donald supporters identified as racist and/or sexist.

[WellDarn]

79. That word "supporters" poses similar problems

Is a "supporter" everyone who voted for Trump, or is it those vermin who showed up and still show up at his Klan meetings?

[tonedevil]

85. Voting for does seem...

to imply support at least support at the time tge vote is taken. You saw the vermin during the campaign, they certainly weren't hidden, so it is hard to say you didn't know what you were voting for.

[rusty fender]

54. Yup

There's no hope in trying to appeal to them through reason and with facts. They're despicable

[Gothmog]

58. Yes Hillary Clinton was correct on this

[Efilroft Sul]

70. Every day I wish that the ghosts of WWII veterans...

...come back to skull-fuck their Deplorable descendants for supporting fascism in America.

[LovingA2andMI]

106. Yes indeed Hillary was correct here....

Some Americans are just downright, straight up, beyond assistance -- Deplorable.

[Kablooie]

107. But they are proud Americans whose vote is as good as yours.

[LovingA2andMI]

109. And they are still...

Deplorable. Hillary was right on point on this matter! Plain and simple.

[Adrahil]

193. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

They are STILL fucking Deplorable. One thing this election did is rip the veil off the fucking racists and misogynists that make up a significant part of this country's population. That cannot be minimized, IMO.

[BlueJac]

127. Right or wrong ......

we need a few new younger faces for the Party, ones with true passion. If you saw Elizabeth Warren on Bill Maher, Friday night, you would know what I am talking about.

[lapucelle]

145. I would argue that E Warren

is a newer voice, but not a younger face.

I commend her passion for the issues most important to her and her hard work for and commitment to Democratic party issues, policies, and principles.

[golfguru]

171. Warren is 3 times more articulate than Clinton

Hope she gets the nod in 2020.

[lapucelle]

179. They both have the ability

to speak fluently and coherently on a variety of important issues.

As for metrics, I'm careful not make precise, mathematical claims about comparisons that do not lend themselves to empirical testing or arithmetic measurement.

But that's just me.

[Tiphill]

129. Yes she was

[Bradical79]

133. I agree

But as a Democratic politician there are certain things you don't say when running in a GE. It's was a poor way to get the point across.

[WellDarn]

144. I guess I am a little confused.

I see working class voters lumped together as being connected by racism and misogyny even though they voted in a majority for Secretary Clinton, but no credible explanation being offered for the fact that what should have been a heavily pro-Clinton, namely middle and upper middle class white women, voting against her in a majority.

[JHan]

146. it means Trump's appeal crossed class lines among that demographic.

and that "economic anxiety" reasons are only partly true.

[WellDarn]

148. Totally agree

And also that racism, GLBTQ-hatred, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and just general fear and "hatred of anyone who isn't like you" is FAR stronger and FAR more determinative of voting patterns among white women living in the suburbs than political "experts" who think they are the key to victory are willing to admit.

I wonder why we are not concentrating more on working class voters where even a Trump spouting lies couldn't garner a majority?

[JHan]

155. I think we are , thing is..

take the min. wage argument. I was never persuaded much by the minimum wage hike selling point - ideally min. wages should be above 20 dollars, but everyone knows that will never happen. We'll need an even broader vision..

. Democrats are going to have to start talking about automation and job scarcity and engage with the idea of a UBI. I don't see any other way around it.

[karynnj]

147. Right or wrong, it was very very poor politics

Anyone who thought she meant them, their neighbors, or friends, likely was turned off. I KNOW it hit a nerve of a NC man, an in law of a relative, who voted for Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

149. Correct

I remember waking up to that headline and feeling sick to my stomach. Self-inflicted wound that only added motivation for people to vote against her. Zero upside. A permanent entry in the "don't" side of the presidential candidate's manual.

[Initech]

161. It was our version of Mitt Romney's "47%" comment.

I knew good things were not going to happen after it was made.

[JHan]

182. It was not the same as Romneys 47% remark.

the only thing similar about the statements is the political fall out from stating them, not all political risks and ensuing fallouts are similar or should even be compared.

After a year of rationalising, excusing away and parsing trump's dog whistles, the media establishment's over the top response to a politician daring to point out the obvious reflected their own failures in their coverage of Trump.

With regard to Romney , his statements were an attack on vulnerable people, Clinton's statements were in defense of the vulnerable against a brand of toxic politics aimed squarely at them. False comparisons like this downplay an ugliness that always existed but which Trump elevated.

Any sort of moral equivalency between the statements is repugnant, and the political consequences of both statements do not justify such equivocations.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

150. She was right 20 years ago about the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

And no one listened then, either.

[dalton99a]

191. +1.

[dreamland]

152. Doesn't matter anymore. Hindsight is 20/20

TRump is the president now and many were just not ready for a woman leader. The question should be who are we going to get in 2020? I liked Tim Kaine.

[Freethinker65]

154. Of course she was.

[NastyRiffraff]

162. She was right about a lot of things

Certainly about Deplorables.

[golfguru]

174. I will take a winner over being right

Bernie or Warren are both much more articulate on the stump.

[NastyRiffraff]

185. Warren wasn't "on the stump"

as far as being a presidential candidate. Sanders grated on my nerves (and many other people's) and couldn't even win the primary. He certainly wasn't more articulate.

I like Elizabeth Warren, but she specifically said, many times, that she didn't want to run, and she didn't. I dislike Sanders, who did run, and didn't win.

[golfguru]

194. Sanders wins without DNC shenanigans

Why do you think DNC chair resigned in a hurry?

[StevieM]

195. There was nothing that the DNC could have done, or did do, to affect the outcome of the race.

Hillary got 55 percent of the vote. Bernie got 43 percent.

He lost because he got crushed among minority voters.

The Russian-hacked emails which served as the basis for this nonsense were written after it was clearly mathematically impossible for Bernie to win.

The states won the primaries, not the party. The caucuses are run by the state parties--and Bernie cleaned up in those states.

The DNC chair resigned because HRC was trying to bring the party together, and their was so much vitriol towards DWS that she had to go. She was the center of all the conspiracy theories.

The great example given of supposed shenanigans was Arizona, where lines to vote were insanely long. Those problems predate 2016. And they were especially bad in areas that favored Hillary.

Bernie lost fair and square. If you want an example of a rigged election I suggest you look to the 2016 GE. Jim Comey showed us what rigged election, overloaded with shenanigans, really looks like.

[golfguru]

196. Wait just a minute

Sanders lost very close elections in some states to Hillary. She obviously cleaned up after her nomination became inevitable. We do not nominate based on popular vote. It is delegates, state by state. And the nomination was obviously rigged due to so called super delegates all going for HRC.

But even more important point is, Sanders was consistently polling better against Trump than HRC was.

[StevieM]

202. The super delegates would have all shifted to Sanders if he had won the pledged delegates.

That is exactly what happened in 2008 with Clinton and Obama.

And it doesn't matter who was polling better against Trump since we weren't talking about electability, we were talking about whether the election was rigged.

As for what would have happened if Sanders had been the nominee, obviously we will never know for sure. But the GOP had a lot to use against him. Some real, some GOP lies. They never targeted him the way they did Clinton and if he had been the nominee they certainly would have. It might have even involved a bogus FBI investigation.

[JHan]

199. +++++++++

Amazing how the crap still gets traction. It's almost as bad as flat earth theory. "Rigged" has lost all meaning.

[NastyRiffraff]

200. LOL!!!!

Nice try. I'm not falling for that "fighting the primary" trap.

[NRaleighLiberal]

167. yes she was and yes they are.

[KTM]

172. Its really too bad

Another thread gets swiss-cheesed thanks to the usual culprits.

[NoMoreRepugs]

176. Enough of the Casper Milktoast shit...

HRC was spot on calling them deplorables... that's what they are..that 23 24% of the electorate is NEVER going to change.. F$@# em and lets move on.

[Nevernose]

180. She should have doubled down

"Racists are deplorable. Sexists and religious extremists are deplorable. Xenophobes and bigots and cowards are deplorable."

[NoMoreRepugs]

190. agree 100%

[Saviolo]

177. This Twitter thread has an interesting analysis of it:

Link to tweet

[JHan]

197. Some insightful observations in there, thanks for sharing

[benpollard]

181. Hillary should never have apologized...

Hillary should never have apologized. She should have said that she doesn't want the support of racists and stuck to her guns. Instead, in typical Democratic fashion, she crumbled. And it hurt her. Had she continued to say that half the Trump supporters are deplorables, she would have gained more support -- possibly from some of the few non-racist Trump supporters.

[radius777]

183. Exactly, the comment rallied the Dem base,

in a way that nothing in her relatively lackluster (thanks to Podesta and Mook) campaign did.

The media went crazy with the clip, but most Dems I knew felt it was a rallying cry.

It is clear that the GOP base is deplorable, and really have been for along time, and it was about time somebody (especially someone of Hillary's toughness and stature) called it out.

I also think she should've doubled down and baited Trump into discussing the issue, which is what I think was her strategists' original goal.

Recall also that the 9-11 fainting episode occured shortly after this, so maybe they abandoned the strategy for this reason.

[JHan]

198. It was , for me...the proudest moment.

I felt proud to support her. I was waiting for anybody, somebody, to speak plainly about the shit that was going on. A whole year we had journalists, pundits, cable news media people, parsing Trump's words, excusing them, lifting the concerns of his supporters and in some instances providing justifications for their behavior. Then Hillary came along and dropped it, and I could say finally, the truth. And of course the second half of her statement was ignored.

[lovemydogs]

184. I never understood the backing away from that remark

Many Trump supporters were deplorable and needed to be called out.
Its time for some honesty from politicians.
Especially when over half the country agrees.
Many of Trump's supporters were vile, hateful and scary. They were deplorable

[mdbl]

186. unfortunately, not enough deplorables know they are deplorable

of course, most probably don't know the meaning of the word.

[bora13]

188. a deplorable under every stone

literally.
if you know any, they think that all progress and modernity is taboo.
Sounds like Taliban or other terrorist thinking to me.

[jrthin]

201. She damm sure was! nt

[forjusticethunders]

203. The reason why people hated the "deplorables" line

A lot of white people cannot STAND the idea that a lot of white people are still racist and bigoted, including a lot of so called "progressives". They cannot stand looking at that mirror and seeing the racism that still lurks within them, so they get defensive and rage instead of taking responsibility for either their own racism, or that of their family members and associates (who are mostly white because many if not most white progressives self-segregate).

Even now, a lot of white "progressives" will either rage at me, call me the real racist, or some other defensive comment.