The feeble minded one claims its all a hoax

[BSdetect]

A conspiracy then?

They're all against me? Paranoia has set in.

https://rbth.com/news/2017/05/09/trump-says-allegations-of-collusion-with-russia-total-hoax_759126

[BigOleDummy]

1. Lol

Set in? Maybe getting stronger, but I think he's been a little paranoid from day one.

[Turbineguy]

2. It's not official until it's denied.

So it's official now.

[FakeNoose]

3. We already know he hates this job - never wanted to be POTUS

...and he has no clue how to do any of this.

When is the Republican Party going to finally admit this disaster, and just get rid of him?

Soon I hope.

[loyalsister]

4. You might want to consider changing that title

Feebleminded is nothing more than a substitute for the most commonly used derogatory word thrown at people with intellectual disabilities.

[MineralMan]

5. I think that complaint goes a bit too far, really.

I can't support that level of sensitivity about nomenclature, I'm afraid. i would have used the word, witless, but to each his or her own.

I just voted no in a jury on the post-starting thread.

[loyalsister]

6. Free speech does not meaning not receiving legitimate criticism

That was hate-filled language when The Virginia State Colony for Epileptics and Feebleminded along with other institutions designed to enforce eugenics were created and it's hateful language now.

Feeblemindedness was an invented diagnosis presumed to be prominant among disabled people, people of color, and immigrants.

[Coventina]

7. I voted no on the jury as well. By your definition "moron" and "idiot" would be hate speech as well

Both used to have specific definitions of states of mental ability.

No one who questions Trump's mental competence is making fun of disabled people.

His lack of intellectual capability is a choice to be an ignoramus, not something that was beyond his control.

[loyalsister]

10. Exploiting stigma is a way of perpetuating it

The outrage over 45's ridicule was supremely hypocritical, because it took something that extreme for even liberals to see ableism as a reality.

Feebleminded does not refer to willful ignorance. It refers to people who were presumed to be inherently intellectually defective. This is not different from using the R word.

[Coventina]

13. So you are arguing that Trump was the victim of hypocrisy?

I do not understand your argument at all.

[loyalsister]

15. He wasn't a victim at all

I'm arguing that people who seized on that event to exploit ableism are hypocritical when they are also avid participants when they want a handy insult.

[Coventina]

24. So basically you are saying that anyone who describes someone as dumb, no matter what descriptor

they happen to chose, is engaging in hate speech?

Is that what you're saying?

[loyalsister]

29. Dumb does not have the same history

as language used to describe, dehumanize, and throw away people.

[Coventina]

32. Please list all adjectives that are now forbidden due to their prior usage at some point.

I'd like to see this list.

[MineralMan]

35. That, I fear, is an ever-changing list.

It always will be. See my reply just above, regarding the word "dumb."

[Coventina]

40. Right, how, um stupid (am I allowed to say stupid?) of me.

[MineralMan]

41. Well, I'm feeling rather simple-minded myself, right now.

:shrugL

[MineralMan]

34. That is not so, actually. Since you are referring to historical usages,

the word "dumb" originally referred to people who were unable to speak, as in "deaf and dumb." That was long ago, though. It has since come to mean "stupid." That new meaning was once considered improper because it had connections to a disability. That connection, however, no longer exists, since we have stopped using the word "dumb" to mean an inability to speak.

Words are interesting things. Language is an interesting thing. Language changes constantly and words continue to evolve in their meanings.

[loyalsister]

36. That connection does exist

The response you would get if you called a deaf or hard of hearing person dumb would probably clarify that for you. I've seen it happen.

There was never a "new" meaning, but there was a different usage of the word dumb. Not being able to speak was presumed to be connected to a lack of intellect. I have never bought into the idea that the n-word has evolved either.

[JI7]

39. "deaf and dumb" . I'm more familiar with the offensive use of dumb

Than feebleminded .

[MineralMan]

8. While the word can be and has been used in that way,

it is not being used in that way in the original post in this thread. I have called Trump an idiot an a moron on more than one occasion. Those words, too, have been historically used to refer to people with learning or other disorders. However, like the word feebleminded, they are also used in other ways.

Donald Trump's intellect or mind, if you will, is indeed feeble. It is an accurate adjective when applied to him. He probably also suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. If I claim that he has that disorder, it is not to attack anyone else who might be suffering from some psychological disorder.

On DU, people use all sorts of descriptive words. Some of those are commonly accepted as words that should not be used to describe people we do not like. However, we cannot exclude every word that may have, at some time, been used in a negative way to describe groups of people.

In the case of this original post, the use of feebleminded to describe Donald Trump was merely descriptive of that individual and an apt description it was, too. I would choose a different word or words, but the original poster chose that one. No reference to some past use of the word in a different way was intended, I am quite sure.

[loyalsister]

9. It is used to lump him in with stigmatized people

Liberal bigotry is still bigotry.

[MineralMan]

11. No, it was not used in that way at all.

It was used as a descriptive adjective that applied to that specific person, as I said above.

That you consider it to be bigotry does not necessarily mean that it was bigotry. That bigoted use of feebleminded has passed from common use in the English language. It is an antiquated term that is no longer used to describe people with learning disabilities or intellectual deficits. It was, at one time, but that time has long passed.

There are many archaic word usages that are no longer part of people's active understanding of those words. We need, I think, to be careful in assigning bigotry to the use of words that no longer are used in bigoted ways.

[loyalsister]

12. So it was never used as an adjective to describe intellectually disabled people

Really, you want to make that claim???

[leftynyc]

14. You may want to put

me on ignore. I call degenerate donnie and his supporters imbeciles on a daily basis. That's also a word that's been used against the mentally ill. I have zero intention of changing my vocabulary because some people look for stuff to get offended by. Up to you.

[loyalsister]

18. You may want to do some serious selgf examination

and reading. Bigotry is after all rooted in ignorance.

[Thor_MN]

22. You might want to employ a mirror.

[loyalsister]

26. Believe me I do

I would have been called feebleminded when it was widely used and most likely would have lived and died in one of those institutions. I have dealt with people such as those on this board who presumed I am less capable and less intelligent based on my disability. I have lived the stigma the the OP tried to exploit.

[Thor_MN]

30. You are not reading what people are posting, and substituting your feelings of what they said.

[loyalsister]

33. I am a product of my history

and a lifetime of discrimination and bigotry. I am sensitive because of my history and experiences, and the way people defend ableism astounds me.

[leftynyc]

43. Yawwwnnnn

You're barking up the wrong tree. I have no patience for those who look to be offended. This is the real world, sometimes you're going to get offended - suck it up. Just put me on ignore. It'll save you the trouble of having to see things that you don't want to see.

[MineralMan]

17. Of course it was so used.

It is no longer used in that way, and has not been for quite a long time. That meaning of the word is no longer the primary meaning of that word.

It should never have been used in that way, and is no longer used in that way. It has reverted to its original meaning, which is obvious from the word itself. The institution to which you referred has not had that name since 1940, over 75 years ago.

Donald Trump can be accurately described as feeble-minded, feeble minded or feebleminded. His intellectual powers are, indeed, feeble in nature. It is correct usage to use words that accurately describe a person or thing. Dated usages of a word that are no longer current are really not relevant.

English, like all languages, changes over time. Words assume new meanings and old meanings fade from use. The simplest example of that is the word "gay." It's original meaning is no longer relevant in the English language, and passed from use sometime in the early 20th Century. It has also been used in a pejorative way, and still is, but is more commonly used as a simple descriptive word today.

There are a number of words that are, indeed, used primarily by bigots. That is truly unfortunate, because some of them are words with completely unbigoted meanings. We don't use them here on DU. But, there are also words that have been used in bigoted ways sometime in the past, but that are no longer used in that way. Some of those have re-emerged as useful words again in the English language. I suggest that feeble-minded is one such word. You disagree. A jury of DU peers, however, has decided that it is OK to use that word to refer to our dimwitted, deliberately ignorant President. And there it is.

[loyalsister]

19. You think it does not conjur images of people with intellectual disabilities?

Words have meaning only because of how they have been used historically.

[MineralMan]

28. Intellectual deficits, not disabilities.

As I pointed out above, the institute you referred to has not had that name since 1940. That's over 75 years ago. That usage of the term has long since not been used to describe people with disabilities on any sort of regular basis. The word now, in most people's minds, means what the original poster intended to say, to wit, that Donald Trump is a stupid man who does not think clearly.

That is demonstrably true. While you may have the historical use of the word in mind, the poster almost certainly did not. And with that, I'm done with this subthread.

[Thor_MN]

20. MM VERY clearly stated that it was once used, in the past, in that manner. NT.

[loyalsister]

23. The point is the meaning of the word has not changed

It referred to people who were considered less intelligent then, and now.

[Thor_MN]

27. In 77 years? NT

[loyalsister]

31. Did the people who were called that cease to exist over the past 77 years?

No. And we know our history and we know that ableism is real and particularly rampant in liberal circles.

[spiderpig]

42. It's stuff like this that encourages me to take long vacations from DU

(Not you, MineralMan.)

There's a point where I'm afraid to post my obviously brilliant points because someone might be offended by an adverb.

Come on, people.

[Thor_MN]

16. "The feeble minded one" vs. "for Epileptics and Feebleminded"

One can clearly see that they are not the same usage, even though the same 12 letters are employed.

You appear to have a deeply personal objection to the later usage, so much so that it overlaps to the former.

Finding bigotry where none exists.

[loyalsister]

21. They refer to exactly the same people

People who are considered inherently less smart than "normal" people.

[Thor_MN]

25. Your example ceased to exist 77 years ago.

While there are people older than 77, the subject of the usage you objected to was not alive in 1940.

They might be the same in YOUR mind, but not in minds of the average person.

[loyalsister]

38. People of color, people with disabilities

and immigrants most certainly do still exist. The language refers to groups not individuals.

[Thor_MN]

44. The language you are persisting ceased to exist a long time ago.

It exists only in your perception, it passed from use long ago.

Notice that you are arguing alone.

[countryjake]

46. Not any more, she isn't. n/t

[countryjake]

45. And whenever white supremacists hold absolute power...

it's those groups that they wish to deign as "imperfect" or inferior in any way who will suffer the most.

In my family, we've taken to describing this new president as "badder than a junkyard dog" whenever he comes out with another new declaration or appears in public.

In my opinion, the man has not exhibited signs of any mental illness, dementia, intellectual disability, or any other sort of disabling condition, and for others to claim such things is simply permitting his behavior to be compared to the many who do suffer those afflictions, a blatant insult to millions worldwide.

Our new president has bad intentions; he is nasty, offensive, deplorable, and corrupt, and more than anything, he is dangerous.


(my apologies to junkyard dogs, everywhere)

[MFM008]

37. Lighten up

Me calling the creature a "maggot" does not denigrate all maggots .
When it comes to BLOTUS , he is "feeble" minded.
Actually.