I want it to be true more than anyone. But Mensch, Schindler and Taylor are hurting our credibility

[Norbert9]

We need real stories and sources before we can get excited about possible arrests and impeachments. They are click bait, teases, letdowns.

[okieinpain]

1. what happened. n/t

[pnwmom]

68. CNN just confirmed Claude Taylor's recent tweets. Guess that bothers some people.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050935

[OKNancy]

2. yup

beware

[librechik]

3. "our" credibility? "We" don't censor people.

So who the hell are "you?"

[Norbert9]

4. Actually, conspiracy posts are against forum rules

And by "our" I mean Democrats. Hence democraticunderground.com

Who the hell are you?

[librechik]

11. I like the big tent, especially when we're fighting an enemy like Trump

why do you want to kick people out? Mensch and so on are entitled to their opinion. I'm entitled to make up my own mind about them. So are you. But being a purist instead of a pluralist-- I just don't get it.

Takes all kinds, tho. There's still folks on the forum that hate Hillary.

[Norbert9]

14. I like an even bigger tent

I'm thinking of how to include, dare I say it, those who voted for him. When Mensch et al make unsubstantiated claims that fall through, us falling all over it is only going to push those voters away in the long run.

[librechik]

19. dare I say it

Trump voters are not welcome in my tent. Not at this time. That tent is too big for me.

[Norbert9]

38. Biggest tent wins

*Corrected for the electoral college and voter suppression

[librechik]

40. Right--I suppose you like the Russians joining Trump in the oval office, too.

the more the merrier right? Or-- I guess size is more important to bros than others.

[Norbert9]

43. Wow. I mean just wow.

There are numerous body parts I would sacrifice to see this monster impeached. I don't need to prove anything to you.

[Hortensis]

91. Well, I agree with you, Norbert. Even 5% of pubs

who haven't completely lost their minds switching parties in disgust, or just leaving the GOP and not voting, would change everything.

And so many pubs have lost their minds as a result gulping fake news and conspiracy kool-aid. They can't be reached by facts because they know they're not true.

Apparently the pleasure of being fed what people want to hear can be very addictive, and these threads here on DU suggest left-wing fake news and conspiracism may be also.

[tazkcmo]

47. Me too.

My tent has no room for racists, homophobes, misogynists or religious extremists. Lay down with dogs, rise up with fleas.

[shraby]

53. I second that, and that pretty much includes the majority of republicans.

[tazkcmo]

55. Yup.

I have two brothers that can stand in the rain rather than step into the dryness of our tent. They prefer a smaller, individual sized tent anyway.

[ATL Ebony]

74. My thoughts too -- your inclusive tent is way to big and . . .

would be a fight against the Democratic Party -- we don't pander to Trump's base.

[Dorian Gray]

95. There were people who voted for him

who aren't his base. They did it unhappily. They did it bc they are lifelong republicans. Those people are shocked at what DT is doing now. They're really disturbed at his presidency and really ready to throw in the towel.

[ATL Ebony]

100. . . . and?? He clearly showed who he was during the campaign -- they shouldn't be surprised now.

[Dorian Gray]

105. I think some people

thought the career politicians would reign him in. It's not happening, though. His buffoonery is really shining through.

[mcar]

60. I'm with you

This ridiculous idea of reaching out to the racists and sexists who voted for this sociopath s over.

Stop voter suppression!

[Dorian Gray]

94. You'll have to open the tent for some of them

if you want them to vote against him next time.

[Norbert9]

99. Thank you

[Me.]

41. First Off

I don't trust the values and judgment of those who voted for 45 and they'll have to go along way before I want them anywhere near our 'tent'.

And 2, I certainly trust Mensch more as she was the first to recognize the importance of the 'British Dossier' and bring it to the attention of the security services. And I have to wonder, since his complete turnaround, if they nailed CHaffetz.

[Nevermypresident]

54. What? "...push (TRUMP) voters away in the long run." Are you kidding?

IMO, a majority of trumpers will never see the light and do not want to!

For that reason, I could care less.

BTW, have you watched Faux News lately?

My response to the subject of your post - I read those bloggers you mentioned and I will continue to. These days, I question MSM as well!

[moda253]

73. No. Sorry you can't fix racist stubborn stupid.

And I have no room in my tent.

[SticksnStones]

80. How great an impact do you imagine DU has on the general voting public?

[brush]

82. You're thinking of how to include trump voters here?

Did you vote for trump?

[Dorian Gray]

93. The problem is....

she's not giving her opinion. She is writing unsubstantiated claims about prosecution and Warrants. If she is right, great. But I think if she is wrong, the people who follow her will have no faith in her and lose confidence in the process. It's dangerous to over-promise.

I do think it's only a small number of over politically savvy readers who even know who she is, though.

[WinkyDink]

46. I think you misunderstand. There is no labeled CT re: Russia and Trump.

[librechik]

52. I have ongoing arguments with folks who insist there is no Russian hack.

They truly believe it's CT. And these are supposedly Dems.

[pnwmom]

69. DT thinks we're a conspiracy. We're not. And CNN just confirmed important tweets by Taylor.

Did you miss that?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050935

[brush]

81. Please! The only credibility they hurt, or don't hurt, is their own.

[get the red out]

101. Investigation

The investigation of Trump admin-Russian ties isn't a conspiracy theory. That doesn't validate the sources of everyone on twitter concerning the state of that investigation, but twitter is going to be twitter.

Trump is doing a great job of damning himself again today!

[still_one]

5. perhaps.........

[LaydeeBug]

6. *Nope*. This is Team #Deza shit all day long. nt

[Norbert9]

12. Just caused disinformation worked for them doesn't mean we should try it

[LaydeeBug]

15. EXACTLY, so maybe you should follow that...because Claude Taylor

has been right at every turn. You are promoting disinfo with the wedge.

Deza all day long.

[Norbert9]

22. Biggest claim yesterday was arrests. Where are they???

[LaydeeBug]

26. He amde ABSOLUTELY no claim of arrests at all. He said sealed

warrants, and he was right. Nice try. no dice, DEZA all day long.

[librechik]

30. yup! n/t

[Norbert9]

33. Nice try. Deza huh?

Link to tweet

And Taylor retweeted this last night. Don't know how to link as a retweet

[OilemFirchen]

45. "Possibly" does not equal "Definitely".

Nice try for a nice try.

[Norbert9]

48. Was it me who said he made ABSOLUTELY no claims of arrests at all? Thanks in advance

[OilemFirchen]

56. Of course not.

Had you done so, you would have defeated your own narrative.

He (or, in this case, she) made no claim of arrests. They both suggested that arrests were possible today. Today's not over, BTW.

If they happen tomorrow or next week or next month were they wrong?

[LaydeeBug]

59. Nope. you said he promised them and that he has no cred bc they didn't happen today.

Nice try. Deza all day long.

[LaydeeBug]

58. Yep. DEZA all day long, and you know it

[mcar]

64. Link?

[pnwmom]

70. Taylor didn't say that. And Mensch said it was POSSIBLE today, not certain. n/t

[brush]

84. He/she said maybe as early as today. Get it straight.

[WinkyDink]

49. "Disinformation"? And you have prrof of this, how? Ya know, one could claim "conspiracy theory"

means "pro Trump's lies."

[tazkcmo]

51. Disinformation?

Care to provide examples of that? From what I've seen, in reference to Russiagate, the folks you mention are batting1.000. I'm no baseball expert, but I hear that's a pretty good average.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

7. oh, dear

[Iggo]

8. My credibility's fine. Thanks.

[oasis]

9. Riiiiiiigt. Sure thing pal.

[Norbert9]

10. Gee your right. I forgot they nailed all those arrests today. Shame on me

[oasis]

16. Thanks in advance for any future updates.

[ATL Ebony]

75. Seems you're applying your personal logic. So yes, shame on you.

If the warrants are sealed then none of them can tell you exactly what will be done except that the warrants will be executed (btw, that happened -- not a conspiracy theory but it's indeed, FACT!) Possibly arrests today, if not today then soon (your interpretation of that statement is what's hanging you up -- hence, you're using a flawed interpretation of what was actually posted so don't spread that misinformation because it will effect your credibility.

[6000eliot]

78. I follow all three on Twitter, and NONE of them said anything about arrests today.

Who's making shit up now?

[Norbert9]

79. You tell me

Link to tweet

[GliderGuider]

13. *cough* Bullshit *cough*

Not fucking likely. Those three are the crown jewels of citizen reporting.

[VOX]

17. Toxic spill in Aisle 9.

BYO hazmat suit.

[Ilsa]

18. Our credibility for whom?

We aren't the news media. I hope no one is placing big bets in Las Vegas over any shit speculated on here.

Yeah, there are some letdowns, but there are also things in the works, and a few people either know the actors, or they have professional experience and have a sense of predictability.

[L. Coyote]

20. Well, if I were you I'd worry aboutmy own.

Where are your scoops on Trump's collusion?
Where were you on election day?
What did you post that morning?
Please pass along your Twitter handle so we can read your reports.

FBI has FISA warrant for Trump secret server connected to Russia.

[regnaD kciN]

21. It's always a judgment call...

One needs to look at every claim, its likelihood, the reputation and track record of those reporting it. Sometimes, one can implicitly trust the reliability of a story; other times, reject it out of hand. Then, there's a third category, where such factors are inconclusive enough that the only sensible conclusion is that it might be the case, but you need to hold off on a final judgment until more facts come to light.

The point is, there's just as much danger, with the middle-ground cases, of jumping to a reflexive rejection as an uncritical acceptance. Think back to 1972: "Watergate? Who's reporting that's significant? A couple of minor-league stringers for the Post? And they're basing it on secret info from some anonymous guy they meet in an abandoned garage? With a porn-film pseudonym? Please…until I see a story with recognizable sources, covered by a James Reston or New York Times, this whole thing is nothing but clickbait" (or its 1970s equivalent).

[tblue37]

32. One thing about Bradley at the Post was that he didn't publish the W&B reports unless

they managed to get confirmation from other sources--specifically to prevent the paper from losing credibility.

Now, though, even papers with traditionally sterling reputations act like shameless gossip rags, so it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Norbert9]

36. Well said. It sucks that this middle category is full of things I so badly want to believe

[Dem2]

23. I read the posts

I think most people are properly cynical.

[JTFrog]

24. You sound very concerned. nt

[dalton99a]

25. Eh, I didn't say anything

[drray23]

27. nonsense. if you paid attention you would have seen

that most of what they tweeted ahead of time turned out to be true.

[nocalflea]

28. Do we end speculation entirely ?

Or just Mensch ,Taylor and Schindler mentions? Scepticism is alive and well among DUers.
Speculation and gossip has it's place.How boring life would be without it.I need more than intellect driven content.I come here to learn and share ideas, yes, but I also come here to rage , scream , laugh and connect.DU is a great emotional outlet for me.Gossip and speculation are a part of that.I'm not worried about this sites credibility at all.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. thank you for your concern.

[hatrack]

31. It's their credibliity, not ours, in the event things go tits-up . . .

And in case you were wondering, we're not a bunch of gullible idiots waiting for the magic beans to sprout.

But thanks for your concern.

[OnDoutside]

42. I'm normally suspicious of those who want to shut stuff down.

[redstateblues]

34. So there's no Fitzmas Claus? I'm so bummed

[HopeAgain]

35. This needs to be said.

THank you

[wryter2000]

37. Thank you

I was burned by Fitzmas. I don't need any more of that.

[OilemFirchen]

61. Just out of curiosity...

do you remember who was pushing Fitzmas?

I can help if you'd like.

[Mr. Ected]

39. Yes, let's all wait until the mainstream media catches up in a couple of weeks

Before we judge the materials we're reading today.

Frankly, I like Mensch and Taylor's track record thusfar. Seems there's a lot of folks on DU that want to assail them for all their misses but nary a comment for their hits.

Why don't we let history decide their place in newsworthiness?

[WinkyDink]

44. Keep waiting for that FBI verified leaker. Never heard of "Deep Throat"?

[MedusaX]

50. So clearly the current FBI warrant based search/siezure at GOP fundraising

/Consulting firm in Annapolis... (by Washington based FBI)

Is just a hoax / clickbait tease ?

So fucking what if someone's source said "Washington FBI RICO based warrants to be executed tomorrow"
And it was interpreted as arrest warrant en vez de search warrant...

It is still a valid FBI RICO warrant based fucking activity related to the 2016 GOP campaign/Election activities ....

So, tell me again why you think we should just wait around and dismiss every thing as FAKE NEWS
unless somebody can produce
a 30 min full color video w/ Dolby quality sound
That shows both putin & 45 in a well lit setting
From a minimum of 5 camera angles...
in which 45 says verbatim ... no variation allowed..
"I donald j trump hereby acknowledge that I have, am currently, and will continue to conspire with you
Vlad Putin, distinguished leader of the great country of Russia,
in return for your having provided cyber hacking services
which ultimately falsified the actual vote tallies in the 2016 Presidential election in order to guarantee that I would have enough electoral college votes to be declared the 45th POTUS."

[Norbert9]

57. Actually...

WaPo report does not at all support your claims.

It is still a valid FBI RICO warrant based fucking activity related to the 2016 GOP campaign/Election activities ....

FBI raids Maryland GOP consultant over 2013 Virginia race

ANNAPOLIS, Md. — FBI agents raided the office of a Republican consulting firm in Maryland on Thursday in connection with an investigation into the 2013 Virginia governor’s race.

The FBI confirmed it served a search warrant in Annapolis, Maryland, but declined to elaborate. Kelley Rogers, president of Strategic Campaign Group, told reporters the investigation relates to work the consultant did for former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, the GOP’s 2013 gubernatorial candidate.

Please do go on though. Your vulgarity makes your argument seem stronger.

[OilemFirchen]

62. You instinctively distrust Mensch and Taylor...

Last edited Thu May 11, 2017, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

yet you cite the claim of the target of an investigation?

Maybe he's telling the truth, but ouch anyway.

[Jarqui]

63. I have to wonder

On the surface, it is that.

But folks have been connecting Bannon, Mercer, Manafort & Stone to this raided company. The FBI might be picking up financial tentacles for them to follow for their Russian investigation while they're looking into whatever criminal issue arose in the particular state civil case.

[emulatorloo]

66. Never trust a GOP flack like Kelly Rodgers to tell the truth.

As to Mench et al, trash thread is your friend.

[brush]

87. You left out, or maybe don't know, Manafort is connected to that firm.

Thanks for your concern though.

[Jarqui]

65. I don't think Mensch, Schindler and Taylor are hurting our credibility

I'm a consumer of their efforts but do not 100% vouch for every word they've said.

If they're wrong, it's their credibility on the line - not mine.

So far, they seem to have been closer to the mark than most in terms of snippets of facts they've come up with so their sources must be fairly decent over such a lengthy period of time.

I'd say the White House credibility and/or Trump's credibility is the credibility that really been significantly hurt over the last 110+ days - look at the polling drop on his honesty or job approval.

and then we see stuff like this:

Claude Taylor's tweets confirmed by CNN's "exclusive" yesterday.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050935

Brent Budowsky (The Hill) echoes Louise Mensch's reporting on recordings in Trump/Russia
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029050966

[Justice]

67. No one is getting excited. Can read info and filter as needed.

I've read stories in the NYT that have been proven to be false.

[TNLib]

71. I'm disappointed but

They have been right about somethings. If we see actual arrests and indictments in the next couple of days then I'd say they were mostly right otherwise I'll think they're just bs or "fake news"

[ATL Ebony]

72. I disagree but if it bothers you, try blacklisting their posts.

They don't need to be accurate 100% (as long as they're not deliberately posting false info) but I don't agree that it's click bait. The majority of what's being reported is true but sometimes the timeframe for an event may be inaccurate, nevertheless the actual event gives us a "heads up" that something is about to happen.

Heck, MSM are allowed to have unnamed "sources" so can Mensch et al. It's not a problem for me and doesn't seem to hurt their credibility at all.

[QC]

76. Thank you. Sometimes this place sounds like Infowars. n/t

[byronius]

77. Yeahnaaaaaaaah.

I don't this issue is even remotely in the top ten million.

And they've been pretty damned right on so far.

'They are click bait, teases, letdowns' -- I think your credibility suffers more with hyperbole like that.

[Blue Ridge Virginia]

83. they are hurting the credibility

of Russian-influence denialists, not "us"

[LibraLiz1973]

85. I agree

They're guessing

[obamanut2012]

88. Nyet!

[herding cats]

89. Hmm, this is a tough one.

Mensch irks me because of her taste for victory laps when she's proven correct, but then she does those when she hits something. Still, her ego and style aren't my favorite. Which doesn't mean I can't hat tip when she was right, which isn't always but does happen.

Schindler, I haven't seen him break anything, or report anything of real interest. He teases and then goes all commentary. I know when I first saw him post election I was hopeful that he was a part of a trend, but then I realized he was "never Trump" from the beginning. I don't think he's into anything actually investigative. I put him and Rick Wilson in the same camp. They're disgruntled old school conservatives pissed off by the Tea Party and Trump voters. They're interesting in that they're openly against the admin, but not really informative. Schindler is driving traffic to the Observer for his own benefit, but he hates Trump. Still, he's obnoxious and more than a bit of a jerk if you spend anytime reading his twitter. He loves to toss out homophobic slurs to people who disagree with him. He's a real charmer like that.

Claude Taylor was a low level Bill Clinton staffer. I looked him up once and he wasn't much of a player, but he's lived in the D.C. area trying to make a living off various ventures for some time now. Sure, he may know some people and get some info which pans out in the end. I read the threads about him here, but with a properly jaundiced eye. In a broad sense he's been hinting at things which seem to be playing out. I treat him much like I do Mensch, but without the being irked by a personality conflict on my part with him.

I'm of a mind that Claude Taylor seems to be like those of us here, meaning well and hoping for a miracle. Mensch is trying to make a big hit. She wants to be both right and sensational. Which doesn't always work out. Which I think is why some of her concepts seem far reaching. It's also why some people can't abide her fully.

Synopsis: Use your better judgement. Be smart and decide on your own what's self serving and what's well intended. Then know that well intended doesn't always equate to correct. Critically analyze everything, even the MSM before you buy it wholesale.

[RelativelyJones]

103. This pretty much matches my view on them.

[Kathy M]

90. Have never joined twitter , so always have been sceptical of tweets I read that have been

posted . Have been disappointed a few times this last year when I thought this is it trump is done ........ Then again I think of the group trump surrounds himself with that seem to skate through a scandal to the other side . I am referring to Manafort, Stone which they have known each other for decades and wonder what it will take ....... Maybe that is what is being worked on behind the scenes , hopefully we will find out sooner than later . Couple articles below if anyone would like to read .....

" Paul Manafort, a veteran of Republican presidential campaigns for four decades, was grilled by lawmakers of both parties in a 1989 investigation into the Reagan administration's decision to divert millions of dollars in federal Department of Housing and Urban Development funds to well-connected GOP operatives.

In this case, Manafort, who helped elect Ronald Reagan as president, landed $42 million in rent subsidies and tax credits for a renovated housing project in Upper Deerfield Township, Cumberland County, that local officials didn't know about and didn't want."

"The billionaire businessman could go into the Republican National Convention with a plurality of delegates but not the majority he needs to be assured of the party's nomination. Manafort, Trump said, will "bring the needed skill sets to ensure that the will of the Republican voters, not the Washington political establishment, determines who will be the nominee for the Republican Party."

"While Trump decried politicians "controlled fully by the lobbyists" in announcing his candidacy last June, Manafort made a career out of trying to influence those officials."

"Manafort was never charged with wrongdoing, even as the Reagan administration HUD scandal led to more than a dozen convictions.
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/04/trumps_convention_manager_once_embroiled_in_nj_hou.html

Another article from 1989 New York Times " The testimony by the Republican consultant, Paul J. Manafort, offered significant new information about ties between his firm - Black, Manafort, Stone & Kelly - and the Department of Housing and Urban Development during the Reagan Administration. New Details in a Pattern "

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/21/us/bush-consultant-peddled-influence-at-hud-he-says.html

[Norbert9]

92. Well all you haters can gladly resurrect this thread when we have President Hatch

I'll never be so happy to be wrong.

[regnaD kciN]

102. There's nothing quite like someone...

...who reflexively trashes other people's work, and then, when his pronouncements are questioned, categorizes those presenting facts countering them as "haters."

[LanternWaste]

96. You allow idle speculation far too much power over you.

You allow idle speculation far too much power over you, and project much more influence on it than it otherwise has.

[Demsrule86]

97. No there are not...much of what they say is being born out and I sure

as hell hope that toad Sessions is frogmarched out of the White House and gets a really tough sentence...let him do a little jail time.

[Norbert9]

98. Yeah I hope so too. But I'm not holding my breath

[alarimer]

104. It's only because they are telling folks what they want to hear.

Mensch in particular has zero credibility, being a tool of Murdoch, etc. I don't know much about the others. Mensch is in the category of "Brit grifter" like Milo and Piers Morgan. For some reason, British people thoroughly discredited in their own countries can come here and Americans go giddy.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/07/the-brit-grifters-and-the-designated-american-suckers

Louise Mensch is a former chick-lit novelist, politician, and founding editor of the conservative website Heat Street. In recent months, she has also emerged as unofficial leader of the citizen-detective internet army investigating “Russia-gate,” the ever-evolving web of shady connections linking President Donald Trump and the Kremlin. To follow her hyperactive Twitter feed is to believe Mensch is perpetually on the cusp of exposing a massive conspiracy on the part of Russia, dating back decades, to make Donald Trump president of the United States.

So intricate and far-reaching is this scheme, according to Mensch, that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the assassination of right-wing internet provocateur Andrew Breitbart in 2012 – three years before Trump even announced his presidential campaign. This well-plotted murder allowed a then-little known documentary filmmaker (and Russian agent?) named Steve Bannon to take over the dead man’s eponymous right-wing media empire and pave the way for Trump’s Manchurian candidacy. Last month, The New York Times granted Mensch precious space on its op-ed page where she provided a list of supposed Russian collaborators for the House Intelligence Committee to subpoena. The Times published this piece well after Mensch had established herself as an unhinged conspiracy theorist. Since publishing her piece in America’s paper of record alleging a conspiracy so immense, Mensch has gone from fairly paranoid to full-blown McCarthyite. According to Buzzfeed News, Mensch “has accused at least 210 people and organizations of being under Russian government influence.”