I Did Not Volunteer For Vietnam But I Went Anyway. Draft Army Was As Good As Any. GOP Meme Is Crap.

[TheMastersNemesis]

The draft was a great equalizer. Drafted soldiers were as good as any army we had. Remember a largely drafted Army won WWI & WWII. So to here the GOP meme that the drafted military was a bunch of loser makes your blood boil. I witnessed and knew bravery even superior to today's Army in some ways. For one even though you went because you were forced to by the draft you did what needed to be done.

We actually defeated the VC during TET. We decimated most of their leadership. After TET the NVA became the main force fighting the war. The VC were largely spent. They could not hold what they took and the paid a huge price. The media framed TET as a big loss when we actually won. I was in An Khe and 1st Cav Division Air Base. The VC blew up a couple of aircraft but never threatened the base or An Khe.

So all this CRAP from the GOP that draftees were inferior is an insult to drafted vets. We could match any of today's volunteers and we made much less pay. And we did not have state of the art food and services.

Now our present military is still the best and the volunteers are excellent soldiers and can be lauded to volunteering to serve. And my post is more about the back door criticism I hear from GOPPERS who never served that veteran draftees were INFERIOR.

[Still In Wisconsin]

1. ...and so many of them (the GOPers) AVOIDED the draft in sneaky ways.

See: Nugent, Ted; Limbaugh, Rush; TRUMP, Donald; Cheney, Richard, and many others.

This meme makes my Dad's (USMC, Korea) blood boil too!

[Brother Buzz]

2. This dumb draftee mostly agrees with the late Colonel Hackworth on the selective service

I still can't figure what 'attendant problem' thingy is.


"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." - Colonel David Hackworth

[flotsam]

4. The attitude...

...always just one inch away from actual insubordination...the peace signs and FTA on the helmets. Scorning and laughing at lifers behind their backs but just barely so. "What are you going to do-send me to Vietnam???". They fought for life and each other but never surrendered their freedom of spirit which could not be "militarized"...

[mountain grammy]

5. My dad was a Marine.. used to say the pretty much the same thing.

He'd say, draftees keep officers honest.

He was drafted into the Marines for WW2, discharged, then re-enlisted.

[HAB911]

13. +++++++++++

[c-rational]

3. Thank you for your service - I agree with your post. Maybe it is time to bring back either the

draft or national service to equalize our society and remind all we have one country.

[Victor_c3]

7. I believe Germany used to do that

If your number was called you either went to the army for a stint or, if you were an objector, you worked as an orderly in nursing homes and hospitals or something like that.

Compulsory national service would be a great thing in my opinion. It could teach a lot of young people a lot about life and people. There are plenty of poor communities out there that could use assistance similar to that which programs like Americorp offer. Americans could/should be drafted into those just as much as military service.

[Ezior]

11. Yep, we (Germany) did that. There was a third option though

It was called "Ausmusterung" and many students hoped for that rejection.

After they did all kinds of psychological tests and interviews on me, they finally measured my body weight (55kg at the time) and decided that I'm unfit to serve. That was even before I told them about my health issues. So I was allowed to skip the national service and the "Zivildienst" (civilian service, e.g. in a nursing home).

Of course I was happy about that, but it would probably be better from a generic POV to reintroduce the national service. Especially considering that today, many voluntary German soldiers appear to follow some level of right-wing, racist, even Nazi ideologies. The national service / civilian service should include women, IMO.

[Victor_c3]

6. I always thought the draft was a good idea

However, if I had any say in the matter, I'd like to add that it should be nearly impossible to get a deferment. Everyone should have skin in our foreign policy. Advocating for military action should mean that you are potentially sending yourself or a loved one into harms way.

I read an article a while back that only something like 2% of the US population has a direct emotional link to someone who served in Iraq or Afghanistan. Most people had little to lose in those wars. If a war is truly justified, like WWII, then people will pour out to join and support it. If not, like Vietnam, the protest will tell exactly what people think of the war.

I don't necessarily have a problem with a draft dodger for a president - just a draft dodger that is eager to send troops in to harms way while berating their service with comments about vets suffering from PTSD not being strong or berating POWs for being caught.

[juxtaposed]

8. I had two cousins enlist b/c they both knew they were going to be drafted.

They wanted to beat them to the punch, both asked for tours in Vietnam. Cousin #1 and his high school friend volunteered for the navy to be on river boats on the MeKong Delta. His high school friend was granted their wish but, my cousin spent 3 years under a bridge in Fall River Ma. on a boat.

My other cousin, same thing he enlisted in the army, better one chooses one’s destiny than have it chosen for you. April to May 1970 he was spending time at Dak Seang. Both made it home okay, just one was home every weekend from Fall River.

[Mountain Mule]

9. A citizen's army will help keep the pols honest!

My Dad was career Army and also fought in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive. He had nothing but good things to say about the men he served with - draftee or career. The GOP needs to get a clue.

[Permanut]

10. K & R from another draftee..

We made that tin can shine, shoot, show up and take care of the aircraft carriers the best that anyone has ever done, anytime, anywhere. Tell ya what, though, I was a cook, and at least on the Navy ships we had good chow. Eggs to order, steak, well, okay, powdered eggs sometimes, and jello made in a twenty gallon laundry tub with a boat oar.

[Straw Man]

12. My father was a draftee in WWII.

He was a country boy and a former high school athlete (track and football), so they made him a First Scout in an infantry squad. He was 21 years old. His job was to move ahead of the unit to see if there were any Germans in the woods. If he found any, he had to run back and tell the sergeant how many there were and where.

He was wounded twice by shrapnel in the Battle of the Bulge. He lost a finger on his right hand and picked up chunks of metal in his back and leg that he carried with him until his death in 2015. He didn't talk much about the war, except to tell us as children that most of what we saw in the movies was bullshit.

Anybody who thinks that my father was an "inferior soldier" can go fuck himself.