So I went to see "Churchill" yesterday.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

The movie was about his opposition to the Normandy invasion because his experience at Gallipoli in WW l made him fear mass casualties. Generals Montgomery and Eisenhower were wholeheartedly supportive of the invasion. Churchill kept trying to impede it.

When the invasion was going to occur whether he liked it or not he wanted to join the king on one of the British ships that was spearheading the invasion. Ike pitched a fit and called the king. The king had to tell Churchill they couldn't go. Even the king was in awe of Churchill.

Churchill comes as off as vainglorious, imperious, and earnest. I guess that's the man.

Watching the movie I couldn't help but think what if we had leaders like Chump in WW ll.

I would add he's one of the few conservatives I respect.

[FM123]

1. his quotes

are numerous, and many are inspirational.
The one I recall is:

"We shall defend our island, what ever the cost will be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and on the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

If we just change that word "island" for the "soul of democracy" it's still relevant today

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. He was a great man. My buddy is a leftie who grew up in the UK and reveres him.

Can you imagine if Trump was the British P.M. during the blitz?

[hunter]

3. What Blitz?

Trump would be riding around in a golf cart with Hitler.

[SharonAnn]

10. Woman "If you were my husband I would feed you poison." He said"If I were, I would eat it."

[BSdetect]

4. He had also arranged the disasterous Dieppe attack so he feared more losses

And he sent troops against union strikers.

Russian POWs were sent back to the USSR where many were sent to the Gulag.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Neither FDR or Churchill always covered themselves in glory while dealing with Stalin.

But hindsight is better than foresight and they had a war to win.

[Wounded Bear]

13. They did what they needed to do to keep the Soviet Union in the war...

They knew that if Hitler succeeded in defeating the Soviets, the path to ultimate victory was much less assured, and much, much more difficult. In 1941-43, the Soviets were the only major forces in combat against the Germans. Western supplies and equipment were pretty critical to the Soviets surviving. Meanwhile the US and UK were focused on the Naval war in the Atlantic and building up forces to invade the continent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. I read this book about WW ll

I read this book about WW ll where the author was comparing the high minded rhetoric of FDR and Churchill with the Faustian bargain they made with Stalin to win the war including blaming the NAZIS for the Katyn Forest Massacre when it was the Soviets who were responsible.

But again there were no good choices, only less onerous ones.

Imagine the current team in Washington managing a war of that magnitude.

[Wounded Bear]

6. Churchill was an inspiring political leader...

But when he tried to meddle in military plans and decisions, it generally did not go well. His military fiascos range from Gallipoli in WWI to Norway and Dieppe in WWII. He pushed for invasions in Italy and the Balkans, calling them the "soft underbelly" of Europe, completely discounting the mountainous terrain and poor transportation networks that would have bogged down any attempt at a major invasion there, and did in the case of Italy.

In the end Normandy was a bit of a compromise. The Americans, especially Patton, wanted to assault the Pas de Calais region, which would have been more direct, but more difficult because it was where the Germans were concentrated and the defenses were at their strongest. Think Omaha Beach, across the entire invasion site. We might have forced our way in, but it would have been far bloodier. Normandy was less well defended, yet was still well within air range.

Churchill was definitely an ambitious man, and a bit ruthless. His military experience in Africa pre-WWI did not prepare him well for major strategic decisions. For most of the 20th Century, his experience was with the Admiralty, and as a Naval man he was weak on the real challenges of large scale ground wars.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I don't think anybody can deny Churchill's fierce love of country and his passionate and moving....

I don't think anybody can deny Churchill's fierce love of country and his passionate and moving rhetoric. They covered Churchill's desire for the military actions you alluded to. Ike was respectful but firm with him plus Montgomery aligned himself with Ike.

In the movie it shows his drinking. He drank a lot.

Any way could you imagine Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson as a British PM during the blitz.

Weren't most of the casualties at Dieppe Canadian. My friend said that was the Brits using them as cannon fodder. Who knows?

[Wounded Bear]

11. Your friend may be right about Dieppe...

I know it was heavily Canadian troops that took part. While costly, Dieppe taught the Allies many valuable lessons for later invasions.

Yeah, Churchill loved his whiskey and cigars. And Monty was generally a cautious commander, the lone exception being the Market Garden campaign, of "A Bridge Too Far" fame. He was seeing the Americans advance so rapidly through France, he was looking for something to build his reputation on. In the end, it was a mistake. Overall, though, he was successful.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Montgomery's pep talk before the invasion was excellent.

He asked his soldiers rhetorically what their most important possession was -their lives, and told them they would all come back alive and victorious.

[ansible]

8. Rewatched Galipoli yesterday with Mel Gibson, be sure to watch it if you haven't already

Really showed the absolute wastefulness of war and how so many lives died for no good reason.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Mel loves war movies so much you would think he had a martial background.