The odd thing about the Reality Winner deal is:

[MineralMan]

The information in that classified document had already reached the congressional intelligence committees investigating the Russian election hacking. In fact, according to Adam Schiff, they have documentation of much more than was revealed in the document she leaked. So, I'm not really sure what harm or good she did, really.

Lots and lots of documents get classified, even as Top Secret and even higher, and remain classified long after the information in them has been publicly known, either officially or informally. So, it appears that the investigators already knew what she released and much more.

Sadly, Ms. Winner is going to end up being Ms. Loser over this. It's not really the information that was released that is the problem. It's the classification of the document. In many ways, she wasted her effort and will now pay dearly for that. There was stuff redacted in the published versions of that document, and that information may have been very sensitive, if it revealed sources, but the actual content of it wasn't all that secret any longer. We all knew that the Russians were doing phishing in Election offices in many places, so that wasn't new information.

I'm not convinced that Reality Winner is all that bright, really. She put herself in real danger of prison time for something that wasn't really a big revelation, really. As someone who has had hundreds of documents with that level of classification and higher pass through my hands, I would never have thought of risking my freedom to leak any of it. My assumption was always that most of what was in classified documents was already known by those concerned with it, so it would have been a waste of time, along with being unethical and contrary to my agreements with the government about classified information.

I feel bad for Ms. Winner. I'm afraid she did something that wasn't useful, really, and will now have to suffer for her poor judgment and stupid decision. Oh, well...

[jmg257]

1. Wow - that's a big 180 there, MM. welcome! ;) (though I don't feel sorry for her)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9165774

"I'm quite sure she's very bright.
That's why I believe she did this on purpose, knowing she would probably be caught. Civil disobedience."

[NCTraveler]

6. +1 nt.

[MineralMan]

9. I'm sure she is very bright, in her own way.

You don't get to be a linguist and analyst with access to TS information at the NSA if you're not pretty smart. I had that job in my 20s, too, while in the USAF, and I worked in the NSA building. Lots of very bright people in there, indeed.

But, being smart doesn't mean that you are necessarily good at making decisions. During my time in that field, I was also spending my off hours organizing and working on anti-war protests. It wasn't a conflict, because the work I was doing officially had nothing at all to do with that. But, I would never have considered risking my freedom by a useless leak of classified information. I spent my time doing stuff I though was useful at the time when I wasn't at work.

I still think just what I said in your quote. I'm sure she did it deliberately and as matter of civil disobedience. That's fine, but what she released wasn't really that important and was already known, so she did something that hurt her but didn't actually accomplish anything. Very bright, but also very unwise.

Intelligence and wisdom are not always connected.

[Kablooie]

2. I read that at least the other inmates are supporting and protecting her.

[orangecrush]

3. I do feel badly for her.

Wish she had talked to an ACLU lawyer or someone who could let her know what was what.

[jmg257]

15. Just curious - but why? Why feel sorry for her? We don't even know her motive.

But she served 5 years in the AF and can speak 3 ME languages, so she is certainly not some unwitting victim.

She may have done similar things before (stole secrets via hard drives and flash drives)

She wrote she wants to burn down the white house and was planning a clandestine trip to afghanistan.

And she plans to use the "cute white girl defense".

"Solari also said a laptop belonging to Winner and seized by federal agents contained software that could enable her to access online black-markets and buy items — such as a fake ID or passport — without revealing her identity or location. In addition to the notebooks and laptops, investigators seized a Defense Department-issued country book on Iran, several electronic devices and a U.S. passport belonging to Winner, according to a search warrant."

"Prosecutors also spent part of Thursday afternoon depicting Ms. Winner as a person with a furtive and troubling side they suggested went well beyond critical Twitter posts. After calling some evidence “downright frightening,” Ms. Solari described pages of notes that Ms. Winner kept that included references to Taliban leaders and Osama bin Laden.

"According to Ms. Solari, Ms. Winner also plugged a peculiar query into an internet search engine last year: “Do top secret computers detect when flash drives are inserted?” She later placed such a device, which has not been recovered, into one such computer, Judge Epps noted."

She seems way off to deserve sympathy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/us/reality-leigh-winner-nsa-secrets-plea.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/06/09/accused-nsa-leaker-wrote-she-wanted-burn-white-house-down/102671348/

etc etc.

[orangecrush]

22. Sorry

You lost me at "cute white girl defense".

[jmg257]

24. Its a quote she made to her sister from the big-house...

“I’m going to play that card being pretty, white and cute, braid my hair and cry and all,” Winner said, according to Solari.

[orangecrush]

25. The "big house"?

Yes, I did read that just now.

I'm wondering if she might be mentally ill.

Also, there is a possibility that she is freaking out, not having been incarcerated before, and is repeating bad advice to her Mom/sister, given her by other inmates, many times who turn out to be informants placed in near proximity to help prosecutors fuck someone over.

In any event, I'm done with it, not clicking on any more threads on this subject.

[politicat]

29. Just as a reality check - software for encryption is not that rare at all, and not illegal.

Spouse and I both have software that would enable us to reach dark web and make anonymized purchases (you do, too -- you have a browser. That's all you strictly need to get to the "dark web".). We both have Bitcoin accounts (we each bought one coin, long ago) and use PGP and secured browsers. I deal with HIPAA, Spouse deals with another form of privacy protected data. Encryption is necessary in our work. We both have a torrent client, because there's a reasonable amount of open source software that's released via legal torrent. We both have VPNs and TOR installed, because all free wifi comes with a high risk of a man in the middle attack.

I don't know the circumstances, I don't have nearly enough information, and I'm not sure I trust anyone who is talking because I don't know their motives, but let us not forget that having ziploc bags and a digital scale can be considered possession of drug paraphernalia, or indicative of someone who packs a diet conscious lunch.

[NCTraveler]

4. How much that has reached congressional intelligence committee desks....

Do you think we get to see?

"Sadly, Ms. Winner is going to end up being Ms. Loser over this."

I personally don't care about Ms. Winters legal issues. Nor do I care about her intelligence. She seems to be aware of what she was doing. I still hold her up as a patriot for letting this out. I'm extremely happy we got to see the information when we did.

Congressional Intelligence Committees in no way equal the American public. A leap you have had to take in order to make this argument about her personally.

"She put herself in real danger of prison time for something that wasn't really a big revelation"

That's just crazy talk. Not a big revelation? It's huge.

[MineralMan]

14. It's not all that huge, really.

I had surmised that whole phishing business from other available information and knowledge of how such things are done. And, in the hands of the committees, it will eventually be part of their decision making.

I'm not sure knowing about that is going to enable any of us to make anything happen, really. It's interesting, but not helpful, really in dealing with the situation.

A patriot? Well, maybe. A naive young woman who wanted to do something? Sure. I feel sorry for her, though. I'm sure I'd like her, personally. Looks like she even has a good, wry sense of humor, based on the photos.

[NCTraveler]

18. This just sounds out there.

Calling this "not all that huge" goes against reality. Congressional Committees do not equal the American people. Amazing leap you made arguing they are one and the same. It's really is one of the cornerstones of your argument.

[MineralMan]

20. We have some strong allies on those committees.

Surely this is not the first time you heard about phishing efforts by the Russians against Election offices? That has been raised before, and always made sense. That's how hackers get malware into all sorts of computer networks. Lots of people are stupid, and click on attachments in emails that look sort of official.

That has been discussed here before. I assumed that was how the Russians had gotten entry in the first place, so those documents weren't that amazing, really.

So, now you know about it. How is that going to change the course of events? Unlike you, apparently, I'm very aware that I can actually do nothing to change what will happen. I've learned that lesson well during my life.

So, my concern is for Reality Leigh Winner, who is in a heap o' trouble, because she will become a sacrificial lamb for Trump's Justice Department. And for what? What have we really gained? The FBI knew that stuff already. The Special Counsel knew that stuff already. The Congressional Committees knew that stuff already. How does your knowing it accomplish anything for this country?

Ms. Winner is doubtless going to prison. That's too bad.

[B2G]

5. She's not at all bright and I don't feel at all sorry for her.

She thought she'd get off because she is "pretty white and cute." And oh so sad.

Tough shit.

[NCTraveler]

7. What makes you say she thought she would get off because...

she is "pretty white and cute."

[B2G]

10. Probably because that's what she said to her sister

in a recorded call from jail. She's a complete idiot.


"Winner, who appeared in court in an orange jumpsuit with her hair in a bun, has been held in a federal detention center in Lincolnton, Georgia. Solari alleged that in recorded phone calls to her sister from the detention center, Winner planned how to defend herself.

“I’m going to play that card being pretty, white and cute, braid my hair and cry and all,” Winner said, according to Solari.

Winner also told her mother she feared for her life and the life of her pets, and asked her mother to “play up that angle,” Solari alleged.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reality-winner-nsa-leak_us_59395254e4b0b13f2c67ce7d

[NCTraveler]

12. Alleged.

And her current game plan, if true.

[B2G]

13. Lol. Like they don't have a tape.

All calls are recorded. Dumb game plan, given she was denied bail.

I guess playing the privilege card is all she has.

[NCTraveler]

16. I don't see how it is dumb.

Not saying she is smart. Just saying it is a tactic used in courtrooms every single day.

[bettyellen]

8. The Intercept allowed her to be their pawn. Their cultish fans are obsessed with making the govern-

-ment look bad at any cost- including the cost of her feeedom.

[MineralMan]

17. Oh, yes! Glenn Greenwald is all about Glenn Greenwald.

He's happy to publish whatever he can get, and people seem to be willing to supply him with stuff. I don't like him much, though. I don't like his politics and I don't like how he does business. Not one bit.

He might have released this information without immediately involving that young woman. She's naive about stuff like that, apparently.

But Glenn Don't Care!

[bettyellen]

19. Greenwald loves the drama and attention. He and Assange are similar in that way....

[MineralMan]

21. For what it's worth, I have enormous contempt for that whole lot of

people. They are only interested in their own fame and fortune. They've been a thorn in the side of decency for a very long time.

A pox on them!

[bettyellen]

23. Agreed.

[orangecrush]

26. Agree

Wholeheartedly.

[Kleveland]

11. Perhaps she just wanted the citizens to be aware.

As has been stated in several places, that document and others are known and being considered by the alleged good guys who hopefully are working quietly behind the scenes.

However, we surely did not know even an inkling about any official document quite like this.

Now we know, and I thank her for her sacrifice, assuming that was her motivation.

It could be something else entirely..... I shudder to think.

[brush]

27. She meant well. Sounds familiar though, well-intentioned but naive whistle blowers...

who think their judgment is sufficiently informed as to what to leak to the public.

At least she stayed to face the music, unlike a certain someone in Russia who not only revealed domestic spying details but also revealed info on covert international operations, his big fuck-up.

[MineralMan]

28. I'm sure she did mean well.

We're not harmed by it. She's likely to be, though. Too bad. Snowden? Feh! He was a shotgunner, not a rifleman.