I know some very good, kind and gentle Trump supporters.

[PurgedVoter]

It is sad really. They go out of their way to help others. They know absolutely and unquestionably that Hillary would have been worse. They work in places where they help children and they are oddly enough for the most part, quite intelligent and compassionate. A lot of them have good judgement apart from the fact that they are unable to see an obvious thief and danger to all of us as an obvious thief and danger to all of us.

These are not evil people. They are people that have been successfully targeted by very advanced remote conditioning. The Mighty Wurlitzer has turned them into dangers to our democracy. The enemy is in fact the controllers of the constant wash of brainwashing. These methods have been tested on other countries and have been used to destroy democracy in distant lands. Now we are seeing the same tools being used against us.

Right now, wrong is normal. It is normal to see Fox news at the doctors office, auto shop and restaurant. It is normal that that is the only channel that they will ever play. It is normal to hear someone with knowledge debating with an obvious and blatant ignorant liar who is granted equal status while the moderator sides with the liar. It is normal for the compassionate person who loves his fellow man to be called a traitor while the man considered a patriot hates our government and so many groups that it ends up he hates the majority and wishes them dead. The man who would have his state leave the union and is happy for the countryside to be sold off is now the patriot.

The first thing we need to fix is the lying, evil conservative media. The owners, advertisers and supporters of these stations and programs are the source of these lies and they are cooperating and conspiring with monsters who know no limits.

[ismnotwasm]

1. They voted for a man who said "you can grab them by the pussy"

That is not the act of a good, kind or gentle person.

[PurgedVoter]

4. Yes, they did.

You are not wrong about what they did. If you ask them, they will say, "that was locker room talk" or say, "that is a liberal media lie."

They are wrong and foolish. They look to their support group to see if this is right. They will be outraged by Hillary because they hear how bad she is all the time. These folk support the worst athletes until the athletes are not supported any more. These folk, your neighbors, have been brainwashed. Yes they are dangerous. No they are not evil. They can do evil, but sadly it is because there is a remote control in their brain. They could fight it, but then they would have to argue with their friends and husbands who are also brainwashed. It is much easier to nod and think, "They don't really mean it," when they hear their hero, husband and friends say things that are evil.

[ismnotwasm]

22. The hardcore Trump supporters I know are assholes. Really.

BTW This is entirely anecdotal. There are some who are single issue voters--anti-choice, say, or pro-gun, or rather pro assault rifle really who voted for Trump despite severe reservations, who are otherwise decent people.

One for instance, is a public school teacher in Ohio--her personal line she can't cross is abortion rights. She voted for Trump and is now watching the public school system she works in and support under threat.

One non-political co-worker voted for him because she met him once and he was"nice"

A whole Others are simply pissed off white people--many in intolerant religions --half of them are half crazy.

That's my personal snapshot

[mountain grammy]

53. Yeah, me too.

pissed off white people.. assholes.

[Hortensis]

169. Me too, but they're nice to those they see as their own.

They've been encouraged to demonize others so they can be lead to behave despicably against them.

This SHOULD be a lesson to all of us, even as anger and frustration encourage many of us to also indulge in this very dangerous behavior.

The fact that most pubs are now literally unable to see others as they really are should scare most here into rejecting this brain- and nation-destroying indulgence.

This forum offers daily evidence that some on our side have already progressed much too far. Fortunately, and fwiw, at least those who don't bother to come here or vote are also not bothering to turn themselves into left-wing versions of what's wrong with the right.

[mountain grammy]

172. Honestly, I think it's impossible for a left wing version of what's wrong with the right.

I don't see an extreme left wing anywhere. The guy who shot at the Congressmen? No, he was a case of extreme distress who went over the edge. He wasn't any kind of raging "left winger" member of some violent hate group because they don't exist. The right wing and the Republican party behave like a cult. No matter what their leader does or doesn't do, they're loyal, even if it hurts them.

[Hortensis]

219. We're very different, and in my sincere opinion after

watching what conservative reaction heralded by reaganism did to our nation, the only people suited to run western-style liberal democracies are liberals and at most moderate conservatives.

Strong-to-extreme conservatives and far-left radicals and extremists can't do it because in their cores they don't believe in government of, by and for the people, but rather in government by them. The big difference is that the far left's conceit that imposing their way on others, whatever that might take, is necessary for, and will be for, the good of all.

But back to most of us, liberals who copy the right by becoming the worst political versions of themselves also become dangers to democracy. This isn't some vague imagining. We're seeing it happen now. Political scientists are watching hostility and extremism growing on the left, years after it happened to the right, yes, but growing. Black-and-white hostility-based partisanship that can be harnessed by evil leaders as surely as it's happened to the right. And extremism destroys nations. It can't even sustain democracy, much less advance the wellbeing of over 300 million people.

[mountain grammy]

251. I don't think we're so different.

I completely agree with your first sentence and most of what you say. I just don't see a big threat from the left. I have a conservative friend who used to call me to rant about radical leftists raising hell.. what? where? does he mean anarchists.. all 50 of them at most?

I see a huge threat from the radical right, the left, meh. What I'm seeing from the left is, finally, a will to fight back. Yes, any extremism destroys nations, but right now ours is threatened hugely from the right.

[Alice11111]

257. Well, I agree w you too. Finally, the left is fighting back,

though it isn't our nature. We would rather have civilized discourse and all get along reasonably well.

Unfortunately, the nature of most Repubs is a mean junkyard dog that wants to tear your face off.

[Alice11111]

256. I agree. We would still probably be out of step w other

Western democracies for years. We are the most conservative country among Western civilized countries.
We are the most punative, the most xenophobic, and the most self righteous.

[bdamomma]

250. do you think this

was common with the Germans loving Hitler?

[obamanut2012]

23. blah blah blah -- quit excusing their bigotry

I know some of the, too, and they think they are kind and gentle and nice, but every single one is actually quite horrible.

[narnian60]

209. +1

[atreides1]

227. +10,000

[stonecutter357]

231. +1000.

[pangaia]

30. They are asleep...every second of every day.

totally devoid of any consciousness. Not even a waking split second....

[sheshe2]

32. You say they are caring and kind and help people...

And stood and watch tRump mock a disabled reporter. Sorry, not buying what those people are selling. If they can't figure all these things out on their own then they have no business voting. You really believe they were brain washed to believe this is a good thing? If they were truly kind and caring then they would never have voted for him.

[athena]

107. Exactly.

I'm sick of people making excuses for Trump supporters. These are adults, not children. They are responsible for their actions. They are responsible for voting for someone who is causing unspeakable damage to humans, animals, and the environment every minute that he is in office.

As I posted below, I am very skeptical that the Trump supporters the OP talks about are as "good, kind, and gentle" to people of color as they are to the white people who agree with their hateful views or avoid challenging those views. These people may seem kind and gentle, but the moment you scratch below the surface, you will find the hate, fear, racism, and sexism that allowed the right-wing media's dog whistles to resonate with them. Since I'm white, these people seem to think I will agree with their right-wing rhetoric. Even when I disagree with them and tell them that I don't wish to discuss politics with them, their hateful racist philosophy finds a way of making it into the conversation. These people are racist to the core. And I don't think anyone who opposes racism should be making excuses for them.

[cwydro]

121. I know people of color who voted for him.

And I also know at least three gay people who voted for him. I was dumbstruck when I learned this, but there it is.

It's not all racist whites who voted for this scum.

[brer cat]

128. ITA

Excellent post, as is the one below. If they seem "good, kind, and gentle" it is only within their bubble. Introduce a person of color, LGBT, or Muslim and watch the hate spew out. I have no patience with anyone who defends them.

[athena]

134. Thank you, brer cat.

Those who are "good, kind, and gentle" are those who saw the hatred for what it was and opposed it from the start. Refusing to tolerate hatred does not make us bad, unkind, or harsh.

We will eventually overcome this. I don't know if it will happen within our lifetime, but the arc of history is on our side.

[WinkyDink]

200. If they call clear videotape "a liberal media lie," then you consort with beyond-stupid creatures.

[Jakes Progress]

235. Yes. Evil.

What do you say about someone whose willing ignorance lets them leave their children in locked cars in the summer heat? After all, it would keep them from getting hit by traffic. Then the children boil alive.

What do you say about someone who tried to tweet back to a friend while driving on the freeway because they didn't want the friend to have to wait for an answer? Then a van of pre-schoolers died in a fiery crash.

What do you say about someone who keeps a loaded gun by their bed to protect themselves and then lets their grandchildren come to stay. Then a five-year-old shoots a three-year-old.

Evil is what evil does. You are not allowed to kill people just because you are gullible or ignorant.

[rock]

241. Completely squashing the argument "that was locker room talk"

So.
-------
That's right, the argument is completely empty. Calling a "tail" a "leg" does not give a dog five legs. It's still rude, crude, and lewd.

[marylandblue]

5. Is anyone good, kind and gentle 100% of the tim

A person can be good in their personal.life, but there can be a disconnect with their vote. There are many reasons for this. Probably different reasons for each voter. I knew a few Trump voters like that. One is a born again Christian who thinks abortion is murder and that is his most important issue. Another believes that militant Islam is biggest danger to America and the world and we need to fight them hard. Another believes that Latin American immigrant gangs are a big problem because of a sensationalized murder story that occurred in her county.

I wouldn't call any of them bad people. I can think of many nice things they did.

I did k kw one true deplorable. Even he has some good qualities. But he is definitely a fascist and has been so for the 30 Years I have known him. He was just waitong for.someone loke Trimp tp come along.

[trentwestcott]

156. They didn't vote FOR him because he said that, they voted for him IN SPITE of his saying that

They voted for him because they were scared of her, not because they liked him or thought that groping women was cool, and to be honest I voted for Clinton despite some great misgivings about all of her warts, and certainly not because of those warts.

OP is right, and as long as we keep hating each other along party lines, parties will continue to offer us these shady candidates, because they KNOW that we hate each other enough to show up and vote for their crappy candidates, if for no other reason than we all hate the other party and their voters and we're all scared of each other and scared of "the other guys" getting their candidate elected, so that's how they get people to show up for a serial groper, and how they get us to show up for a woman who I'll just say has some questionable decisions and statements in her background.

Do you see politicians fighting each other in the street the way we do, or threatening each other? Very seldom, and usually if you do see real anger between them it's intra-party vitriol, not inter-party. They don't hate each other; they're buddies, but they still come out and whip up all this animus and stand back and count the money when we all get enraged off of their rhetoric and start sending in our monetary contributions thinking that they'll use our money to punish the "bad people" on our behalf. It's a symbiosis, they NEED each other, and I honestly believe that a lot of Republican politicians were disappointed when Trump got elected because they knew that they would've had more voter loyalty if Clinton was president.

I know a lot of conservatives, and some of them are my favorite people in the world, and I care about them a lot. Some are extreme, some are moderate, and some scare the shit out of me to be honest, but I don't stay up at night worrying about them taking over because we have a system where it takes a large majority of people to truly wield power. That's why we might have some extremist reps and yes, at this moment BREITBART has an office in the White House, but our style of government will keep us those extremist elements in check and keep this country on an even keel, and eventually order will be restored. In the meantime t'd be a good idea if we don't get all carried away and start a civil war with these people and turn this country into the Balkans.

[catbyte]

208. Dream on. Our style of government is not made to handle the kind of extremists that

Republicans have become. The only entity that's keeping them from shredding the Constitution are the courts, and you can see how Republicans are attacking them.

I wish I had your optimism, but I don't I just turned 62, and I've never been more frightened for my country.

[mnmoderatedem]

167. add to that

they voted for a man that falls all over him self praising blood soaked dictator Putin, who he said was a better leader than the current president at the time, openly mocked and insulted John McCain who spent seven years being tortured by the Viet Cong, while all the while Trump sat on his 5 deferment fat ass, all for his own political gain. Yet not only did they still support him, they went to his rallied decked out in their best Uncle Sam getup.

[Alice11111]

258. I begged my mother, in Texas, not to vote for him after that.

She said, she didn't believe it! I said, but he said it with his own lips.
Her Response: Bill Clinton did worse and he did it to practically a minor in the Whitehouse, was her response. All of the women who are saying that about Trump are lying. They are all liars.
Besides, the Clintons murdered 22 people.

She's 85 and lives in a different state. I called her for her BDay and Mother's Day, but otherwise , I just can't stand it. I know she won't live that long, but it's just awful to hear her carry on. I think she enjoys it. She sent me a text after the election, WE WON!!

Even in the BDay call, she was telling me how the Asian guy dragged off the plane deserved it. I said, blandly, well, I figured that was what you thought. She said, well, he just acted horrible. He just did it to sqeeze some money out of the airlines. She just has a Republican brain.

[Dem2]

2. Fox brainwashing

I've decided to post reviews of places and have lowered a rating by 1-2 stars and made a careful note that I do not need Fox brainwashing on the TVs. Oddly, 2 places have turned it off since.

[femmedem]

38. Excellent idea! n/t

[leftstreet]

3. Are these the kind of people who watched the debates?

Did they see news stories about Trump mocking a disabled person?

Did they know about his vulgar misogynistic statements?

Did they realize he was not a politician, but a reality tv star?

If yes, did any of these things make them curious enough to learn more?

[marylandblue]

7. For the ones.I know, yes they saw all that

And they do watch too much Fox so they had a very skewed view of Clinton.

[leftstreet]

12. Are they telling you now they made a mistake?

If not, I suspect some their 'goodness' and 'kindness' is manufactured to help hide their essential bigotry

[marylandblue]

42. I view bigotry as largely unconscious

Most bigots don't realize they are bigotted, you need some introspection to even realize it at all, and then it takes some strength to change a lifetime of mental habits. One person I know who has some bigotry also has a lot of unconscious anxieties and a tendency to jump to conclusions in all sorts of situations. The result is that she is likely to perceive dangers from people who are different without realizing how irrational it is. I've also seen her exaggerate dangers from things like certain medications.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. It's amazing that all this targeting seems not to affect black women

Or poc generally

There are a lot of bigoted nice people's in the world

[yardwork]

8. This is a fundamental truth that needs to be confronted.

[lunasun]

18. + a zillion . Someone telling me it was men who liked voting for trump . I mention the low

Percentage of black men voting for him. Answer:!oh I wasnt counting them

Ok then end of convo for so many reasons...

[JI7]

19. yup. it always comes down to that but people still want

to claim it's about something else.

[tazkcmo]

34. And apparently

Some over 50, white males have an immunity. I wonder why, in all my whiteness and age, during periods of homelessness, unemployment and extreme poverty, I never did come to blame, resent or demonize non-whites for my own poor decisions. It must be a miracle!

[Ligyron]

68. Yeah, aren't we something?

Wonder why that is...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. Yup

[gollygee]

46. +1000

People assume all racism occurs because of horrible mean people in white hoods.

[luvtheGWN]

102. Remember the song from "South Pacific"...

"You have to be carefully taught".

[Mariana]

267. The song is bullshit.

You don't have to be carefully taught. You can simply absorb it from the environment, from the people around you. No particular effort needs to be made. You don't have to be a very young child, although it helps. It doesn't have to be learned in the home or from relatives. It can be picked up at school, at church, in the neighborhood, or even at work. The song is just wrong.

[Egnever]

120. Nothing odd about that at all

They are not welcome in that world.

[hunter]

125. I think their "kind and gentle" nice is the biblical equivalent of praying on the street corners.

***Look at me, look at me, I'm nice! I can brag about it in church!***

That nice is a cover for the emptiness they feel inside. Certainly a nice person would never tell an ignorant, racist, misogynistic, homophobic person they are an asshole.

I am not a nice person. I'm possibly fortunate to live in a place where people of color are the majority and Trump supporters tend to keep it in the closet. Fox News is not something you see on waiting room televisions here. The most common thing on waiting room televisions is Mexican football, perhaps demonstrating Mexican sexism, but not any Fox News watching white evangelical Christian version of "nice."

[Stallion]

9. I Know Plenty of Them and They Are Perfectly Fine With Trump as Long as They can Get Their Tax Cuts

its that simple-they know Trump is a buffoon

[Laurian]

10. Sorry, but no.....

They may pretend to be caring and compassionate, but they simply are not if they were able to vote for an abomination like Trump. I will not give Trump voters the benefit of the doubt, here. There were plenty of opportunities for them to know who and what he is.

Please do not try to make excuses for the inexcusable.

[Stallion]

13. Yes I Tell Them Voting for Trump Goes on Their "Permanent Record"

no "take-backs" later because the evidence was overwhelming that he was incompetent

[bresue]

15. I agree! And when they and everyone they love lose their programs...

I will not feel sorry for them, but more sorry for us all that they bring down!!

I give for example the housing boom and bust....analysts and forecasters were forecasting for 2 years previously! However, did the Rubs take any measures or inspections of the markets? They just closed out anything as hysteria and neglected to investigate.

And, we all suffered for that selective ignorance...people losing their jobs right and left...having to live on unemployment...was not fun! Obama pulled us out of that dark scary time....but I will never forgive the Rubs....

[Skittles]

71. who tells them they have to listen to Fox Fucking News?

we don't live in the dark ages

these people CHOOSE to listen to Fox because THEY LIKE THE RACIST, CLASSIST GARBAGE THEY HEAR

[Quanta]

14. Have you told them to wake the f up yet?

Really. As nice as they are, they are guilty of not being educated themselves. But that's beside the point.

Come up with a plan to reinstate The Fairness Doctrine, or stop expressing your "concern." Or, at least tell us the part of the story where you informed this very nice well meaning couple about the error of their ways.

[bresue]

16. Sheep and dogs are nice too...but do we let them go off the cliff!!!

[rzemanfl]

17. Tell the for me, in the nicest possible way, to go

f**k themselves and the horse they rode in on.

[lunasun]

20. Kind and gentle but sorta fucked up huh? Oh well not everyone thinks for themselves but cool story

[still_one]

78. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[The Wielding Truth]

95. So true. I tried to warn them, but they were on some sort of high from the daring of this man.

It made me sick because they couldn't see him for what he was. A selfish liar who would use them to get what he wants and screw them at the same time.

[obamanut2012]

21. Sorry, they are not kind and gentle and good

They literally cannot be that and have voted for Trump. It is literally impossible.

[malaise]

24. Let me be kind

Fugg that

[Skittles]

72. I am fucking SICK of hearing excuses for Trump supporters

[lunasun]

81. For reals let me puke with you in unison

[malaise]

165. Same here

[bettyellen]

25. I wouldn't let kids near them!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I wouldn't let them dog sit.

[PurgedVoter]

27. I tell them what I believe

I tell them that they have in all ignorance done great harm and cooperated with evil. I say that I hope they can be forgiven. I advise them to forgive everyone of everything and hold no debt against anyone. I tell them that helping the sick, supporting the poor and visiting those in prison without judgment, is probably going to be a very wise choice after what they have done.

I say it lightly and with humor. No point in scaring them. I live in a state where they can shoot you if you scare them.

[sheshe2]

36. There can be no forgiveness for them.

They have blood on their hands, the millions that they will have let die needlessly due to their bigotry and hate. Sure, they will be going down as well, yet we were not the ones that pulled the trigger, they were.

[napi21]

28. I have neighbors like that, kind, always willing to help someone, and far from wealthy! However,

they were pro Conman form the day he first announced. Their reason is they disliked the was our Gov't was run no matter which PArty was in office, and they wanted to try this new guy who will STOP doing what's always done and shake things up. They do not listen to FOX or RW radio and are both retired with little to no savings. SS check is it. They don''t like talking politics and if I do point out something that has me quite scared, like mishandling N Korea, or cutting medicaid, they just shrug snd ssy "Oh, i'm sure it's not that bad, you just don't understand." Somehow I don't believe they are the only people who feel that way, and I have no idea how to wake them up to reaslity.

[pangaia]

88. That sounds terribly familiar.

Pure ignorance about the world around them.

[napi21]

146. AND they don't care! They live their own life. Might extend it to their neighborhood, but that's

it. I don't think we've ever had the conversation but I do get the feeling that other States, even Counties, and for sure other States or Countries have to deal with their problems the best way THEY CAN. It doesn't affect their lives so it not their problem!

I'm retired and living on SS. I care very much about the people on Medicaid even though I'm not. I do aadmit though, I've been closely watching what they decide to do with Medicare. I currently have a supplement ins. to pay what Medicare doesn't and I've used it more often than i want recently. I rarely have any bill over $50.00 after paying my $175 deductible. Bit I'm well aware of how quick all that can disappear with the mouth of some Pub AH in Congress. I can't help think how awful it would be if i were under 65 and faced with a HC premium the thousands of $$ per month! I made decent $$ when I worked, but I sure could never have afforded thousands per month! As it was, my husband had to continue working for and additional year after he turned 65 because I'm a year younger than he. What these AHs are doing to the most vulnerable of our citizens is disgusting. and all their moves could affect any of us, whether it be us, our parents, even our children.

[Patterson]

29. I remember watching mobster movies when I was young

and thinking: How can they be bad guys when they are so nice to their families?

[Laffy Kat]

116. Same with the Nazis that ran concentration camps.

Then went home and kissed their children. Were they nice people?

[Drunken Irishman]

31. I know of one decent Trump supporter and I think she's disconnected from the news.

Every other Trump supporter I've come across has been absolutely, horrifically miserable and terrible.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

33. A lot of normally nice people can be stirred up to do bad things, like vote for Trump.

This country invaded Iraq over lies and killed over 100,000 Iraqis in the process. There's a bunch of good people in this country who supported that too, many of whom still aren't willing to admit it was a mistake. If I was one of the foreign policy reporters beating the war drum back then, I'd be too ashamed to deem myself a "foreign policy expert" anymore. Yet they still write their columns and books.

Fear can make many normally good people do bad things. FOX News focuses on Muslim terrorists and "dangerous" African Americans, and now we have Trump.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

45. More about fear...

Considering how many normally decent people have voted against the betterment of this country and themselves, I started wondering if a manipulative person could actually make others so fearful of "threats" to their well-being that they committed suicide to protect themselves from it!

It didn't take me long to think of an example: Jim Jones.

[lunasun]

87. A lot of good Germans went outside and watched thier neighbors or storekeepers be removed to

a camp train and then went inside and had dinner.
Propaganda works

[furtheradu]

35. WOW. Awwwsome OP.

A lot to think about.
Thank You.
I also know a trumper, who is kind & loving.
Compassionate, generous.
Listens to rush, only watches fox.
It freaks me OUT.
Thanks for giving me something to help me understand. 💖

[SHRED]

37. Trump gave ample examples that he is an asshole and a hater

Your friends are not excused.

Sorry.

[ananda]

39. That is called the banality of evil.

"Good Germans all."

[Skittles]

40. people who are good, kind and gentle do NOT support misogynist, racist ASSHOLES

Last edited Mon Jun 26, 2017, 08:39 PM - Edit history (1)

[janx]

43. They do if they are gullible and scared. n/t

[Skittles]

48. NO THEY DON'T

you are missing something about these people, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE *STILL* SUPPORTING THAT TREASONOUS PIECE OF SHIT

[Buckeye_Democrat]

54. They can if they're brainwashed by fear mongering. n/t

[Skittles]

66. I absolutely disagree

I think you have to fundamentally think you are better than other people if you think someone like DONALD FUCKING TRUMP is suitable to be president, UNDER *ANY* CIRCUMSTANCES.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

75. Those people support him too, but there's still some people who were gullible enough...

... to believe that the Clintons murdered over 40 people and other such nonsense. Those dummies are flabbergasted over how anyone could have possibly voted for Hillary.

[Skittles]

79. there is no excuse

we don't live in the dark ages

it is not hard to find other sources of info other than Fox Fucking News and Breibart

[Buckeye_Democrat]

84. Oh, but it makes them feel good about themselves! Lol.

Many people like to believe in an after-life because that makes them feel better too.

[Squinch]

69. And again, let's go back to Lioness's question: how come people of color are largely immune to

this kind of brain washing? Why does the fear mongering only work on white people?

You only get one hint.

[Skittles]

74. you echo my sentiment above

fuck making excuses those ignorant assholes

[Buckeye_Democrat]

76. Have you ever met a black person who thinks that ALL cops are bad?

I have.

[Squinch]

93. How does that answer the question?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

103. I think some of them are brainwashed too, but I'll give another example.

What about the many black people who killed themselves under the guidance of Jim Jones?

Brainwashing can work on many people.

[Squinch]

109. "I think some of them are brainwashed too." I lulzed.

And you still haven't answered the question.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

115. What's the question exactly? Brainwashing in general? That was answered.

If you're asking why PoC aren't brainwashed by FOX News and the like, it's probably because those outlets portray them in an unfavorable way.

Goebbels didn't brainwash white Germans by saying they were the bad guys.

[Squinch]

234. If you are someone who falls for the Trump(R), Breitbart, Fox news fearmongering,

you did not begin the process as an innocent. There are those in this thread who are giving people a pass for raining this destruction down on our heads because they say these people were brainwashed by Fox and Trump(R) etc. As if they are just poor victims.

But in order to be brainwashed by Fox and Trump(R) etc, you had to have begun the process as a bigot and a sexist. You have to have SOUGHT OUT those sources. You had to be leaning that way before they ever got to you, or you would never have accepted their message.

So no. It is NOT brainwashing. It's a huge racism and sexism confirmation bias.

If you are going to tell me that Fox and Breitbart and Limbaugh enlarged it, I will buy that. But the racism and sexism were there to begin with, and they are the reason these people sought out those messages.

There are no innocents being led down a bad path here.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

237. True, but...

"Us versus them" can be appealing to many people, even over something as silly as sports teams. Unfortunately, what starts out as a "friendly rivalry" can be elevated to hatred and insane generalizations among some of the fans. Those fans indeed decided to "pick a side" to get the process started in the first place, but I don't think it's a part of the human condition that will ever go away.

It's the demonization of others where it really becomes a problem, and that frequently depends on propagandists to promote it.

Many white Germans today might still view Jews as "others" to some degree, but I don't expect another Holocaust anytime soon without the fear and hate mongers making it worse.

There was far more anti-Japanese racism in this country during WW2 because it was promoted by propaganda efforts.

Right-wing propagandists -- the "more educated" ones in that party -- are elevating hatred against minorities mostly because they know most African Americans will vote for Democrats. If African Americans voted like Ben Carson -- and I'm so thankful that they do not! -- FOX News would have a drastic change in programming.

I am very disgusted by people who fall for the propaganda, but it doesn't just happen in regard to race and gender. I've seen similar insanity over many things, like witnessing too many Americans get whipped into a frenzy over Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

[Squinch]

253. This BEGAN with the demonization of others. No one went to Fox and Breitbart

and Limbaugh unless they ALREADY wanted to engage in public demonizing of women and people of color. This was never a "friendly rivalry" that got out of hand. This was evil people finding each other.

No innocent victims fell prey to this message. Evil people FOUND this message and felt that it was the words they had always wanted to say.

These are not good people.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

254. If that's the case, there's better outlets than FOX News for that.

Those people would go straight to white supremacist and misogyny websites.

I agree that most people started watching FOX because they had biases in the first place (although some of them were plain ignorant and apolitical initially), but the propaganda makes it far worse.

If FOX News had been available when I was a young teenager with raging hormones, their female eye candy might have even drawn me into their web of deceit. Then I'd hear about the "liberal media" which couldn't be trusted to keep me in their bubble.

Interesting article about the FOX News effect:
http://www.alternet.org/story/154875/the_science_of_fox_news:_why_its_viewers_are_the_most_misinformed

[Squinch]

255. But the more extreme sites don't allow them to pretend they are not terrible.

White supremacists are socially unacceptable. Have been since the 60s. They don't see themselves as radical.

They just seem themselves as better and more deserving and wronged. And they see women and people of color as worse and less deserving, and the people doing the wronging. The terminology is much more comfortable. Fox and Breitbart gave them everything they wanted.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

259. I agree with that.

People seem to have different limits on how far they can have their biases challenged. I've seen it on DU to some extent as well.

A person like Noam Chomsky, who coincidentally has written many books related to propaganda, can make some people here so uncomfortable that they won't even watch a brief video of him. He's like a walking encyclopedia of nasty things that's been carried out by the USA around the world (although that's just a small aspect of his knowledge) and he cites sources for everything that he brings up. That kind of thing makes an even larger share of the population too uncomfortable, it seems. It's easier to ignore him.

[Skittles]

261. you get it, squinch

I'll say it over and over - these are people who FUNDAMENTALLY think they are better than other groups of people

[treestar]

206. That was a lot more intense than just the media

They were isolated and had followed Jones for many years. Jones lied about what was happening in the US - they had no access to other sources of news.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

211. Good point.

I think many of the deplorable voters are isolated from other sources of information too, but that's more self-imposed.

[Coventina]

239. Are you kidding here? Policing as an institution in the United States has been shown, time and

time again, as having racism baked into the policies and procedures of everyday behavior.

It is INSTITUTIONAL, regardless of what the particular ethnicity of the cop happens to be.

And you are equating that with BRAINWASHING?!?!?!

Massive. Fail.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

240. I'm mostly saddened when it reaches the level of thinking each indivudual cop...

... is inherently bad. It doesn't always involve brainwashing, but it's a generalization that can be promoted by some people which then wins over others.

Some cops can be brainwashed in an institutional way too, and that's even more dangerous! I'm not trying to heap most blame on African Americans over that stuff at all! I simply mentioned it because the other poster implied that brainwashing doesn't work on African Americans (which is a crazy generalization in itself), and I've talked to African Americans who seemed brainwashed to me after they were exposed to certain ideas. One black guy even told me that he didn't use to think all cops were racists, but now he was convinced otherwise after following it more closely.

Here's a recent post that might better explain my perspective:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9254683

[marylandblue]

77. The fearmongering is intended to frighten white people

Minorities in general seem to be immune, because they are the targets of the fearmongering. You can't be made to be afraid of yourself.

[Squinch]

86. OK. Well, I am a white woman. Why is the fear mongering not working on me? Why did it not

work on the 37% of white voters who voted for Hillary? What do the 37% of us have in common and where do we differ from the 58% of white voters who voted for Trump?

Again, you only get one hint.

[lunasun]

150. Exactly! It's propaganda but you need a willing subject to listen

[Buckeye_Democrat]

82. Also, much of the brainwashing is wrapped in patriotism.

I personally think patriotism isn't an appropriate word for it because it's more like blind faith in our institutions. After their history in this country, African Americans aren't as likely to get fooled by that crap.

[Squinch]

90. It's not brainwashing. It's confirmation of bias. They were bigoted to begin with. This just

gave them an outlet and cover to express their bigotry. And sexism.

It isn't blind faith in our institutions. If we are to believe what we are being told, it was seething dissatisfaction in our institutions.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

98. That's probably true in most cases!

What starts out as a desire for affirmation can get much worse after long exposure to propaganda, however.

[reflection]

236. best reply in the whole thread. good grok. n/t

[sheshe2]

139. give me a minute here.

got it!

[Squinch]

166. Yes you do!

[7962]

226. You must be kidding. It works on all groups. Just depends on what the fear is

and how its pushed. I've heard some crazy theories come out of every community at some point. MAny refuse to go away

[Squinch]

233. You misunderstand my point, which is this: why is this particular

brand of fearmongering, the one used by Fox and Breitbart and Trump(R), so unsuccessful with the black community? What is it that unites the people who fall for the fear mongering of Fox and Breitbart and Trump(R)? What characteristic MUST they share in order for that particular fearmongering to work?

[treestar]

205. Don't people have some responsibility

to avoid brainwashing when it is merely the media? They could look around rather than accepting everything wholesale.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

210. Yes, they're responsible.

I can't be sure, but I suspect that many of them were drawn to those right-wing sources in the first place because they don't like the "mental discomfort" that they're more likely to see from other sources -- e.g., the USA isn't always doing good in the world, many whites were cruel slave owners in the past, etc.

They got some affirmation from FOX and other right-wing sites and, before long, they start to accept just about every lie that they see and hear -- e.g., the Clintons murdered their political enemies, Hillary should be arrested for treason, the rationalizations for Trump's behavior, etc.

Despite how I don't respect them, I still think those people might be among the most likely to vote for Democrats in the future among Trump's voters without even trying to appeal to their racial and cultural fears. Why? I'm basing it on this very lengthy and interesting survey of Trump's voters:
https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/the-five-types-trump-voters

They're labeled the "American Preservationists" in that study and they comprised 20% of his votes. They're among the poorest and least educated of Trump's voters and they watch the most TV. They're also the group who expressed the strongest desire to work with Democrats in Washington and they were the least likely to want cuts to social spending.

On the other hand, the GOP old guard voters, labeled the "Staunch Republicans" and "Free Marketeers" in the study, comprised 56% of Trump's votes. They overwhelmingly voted for Trump (94%) over Clinton despite how Trump is a dangerous moron, while they're the most wealthy, most educated, least xenophobic, more globalist of his voters. They also watch the least TV. They were the groups who most desired cuts to social programs and most strongly opposed compromise with Democrats.

They're the "smart" Republicans, but they're the most dangerous in my opinion! If there's anyone who should know better than to vote for a dangerous person like Trump, it's them! Greed must know no bounds in their case.

[lunasun]

89. Scared of what Mexicans , Muslims and BLM ?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

110. Yes... if they're stupid enough to watch FOX News and swallow all of it. n/t

[6000eliot]

135. Scared of what?

That people of color are finally gaining some ground in this country? That white people can no longer lord their power over others?

[kcr]

184. Sorry, but no.

That just makes them cowards.

[Coventina]

238. Thank you!!!

[SCantiGOP]

41. PurgedVoter:

Thanks for having the courage to post this.

I agree with you, but know that you will catch a lot of flack for this.

[WinkyDink]

201. AGREE with WHAT? That "kind and good" people allied themselves with "LOCK HER UP!"? With the Billy

Bush Trump on video?!

With the man who called our former First Lady a "nasty, nasty woman"?

With "Birther" Trump?

With the never-served-in-Vietnam dodger?

I have no time for either them OR people who hang with them.

[SCantiGOP]

213. Thanks, please put me on your Ignore list

As I have done with you.
Your ridiculous use of capitals would have been enough to accomplish that anyway.

[lambchopp59]

44. The only good, kind and gentle Trump supporters I know:

1. Just weren't paying enough attention. They let their Christian faith blind them to voting for who their church screecher recommended.
2. Are truly regretting that decision as a horrible mistake now.
That accounts for the 1 good, kind and gentle Trump voter I know.

And for the rest:
There are 3 more who have made it blatantly known that if they had their way, LGBT people like me would be put to death.
And 3 more I know who are so impossibly stupid, loudmouthed and brash most everyone I know gives them wide berth.

[hamsterjill]

47. Their actions are hurting my family.

I don't see any of them as good people. They may try to act like they are, but underneath, at night when no one is around, there's something ugly about them for them to have been able to vote for such a horrible person and still be able to sleep at night.

I'll not be making excuses for their actions.

[moonscape]

49. "The first thing we need to fix is the lying, evil conservative media."

Sure, but ... how do we do that?

[Mr. Ected]

50. I live in a rural area in the Deep South

I know about 5 Democrats here. All my work relationships are superficial because anything deeper would expose the misogyny, racism and utter stupidity of my colleagues. To a person, they rely on FOX for their news. They cannot argue because we are living in universes that lack any commonality. Because of their numbers, they speak freely about their politics and their admiration for Trump. They are the progeny of generation after generation of this kind of mentality, and would never open their mind to any alternative. Once, about 20 years ago, I moved to Europe to live in a more progressive environment, but 8 years later I was forced, due to family matters, to return to Georgia. I detest it here. For any of you who live in blue states or blue regions, be thankful, be very thankful. It's horrifying to be going down with the ship with the very people who sunk the ship.

[moonscape]

159. I'm so very sorry - sincerely. I grew up in

Western NC, in a community not as conservative as yours, but a far cry from where I've lived the last 40 yrs on the CA Coast.

I had a brief flirtation, for economic reasons, with the idea of moving back to that area. Then 11/8 happened and while likely I would not have made the move, the election sealed it. Coastal CA is a Panic Room, and while it can't innoculate us against this horror, it surely helps to be with ones own kind.

Your post made me ache. Nobody deserves to be stuck where they don't want to be.

[Pacifist Patriot]

195. I'm with you there, but fortunate in one respect.

I am the HR department where I work so I've been able to ensure politics is not discussed in my presence. The conversation even gets close, they get "the look" from me and instantly change the subject.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. They are fooling you

They saw it all with their own eyes, and heard it with their own ears. They are fooling you. Never turn your back on these people. They condone evil. They excuse evil.

[dalton99a]

111. Yep.

[UTUSN]

52. Really? - let's review:

"...help others... Hillary would have been worse... help children... intelligent and compassionate... have good judgment... not evil... "

So the REAL CULPRITS is the "Great Wurlitzer"??????:

"...targeted by remote conditioning... Fox News... (false equivalency)... moderator sides with the liar... (secessionists)... LYING, EVIL CONSERVATIVE MEDIA... owners, advertisers (of media)..."



**********Uh, no. DRUMPF supporters are NOT innocent pawns. They kept their RACISM and HATE silent for a generation until the a-hole DRUMPF and the wingnut media gave them PERMISSION to let their real inner selves show themselves.

They are not innocent victims. They are A-holes. As for "good" people: HITLER loved dogs; LIMBAUGH loves Xmas; the KOCH brothers and innumerable Wingnut BigWigs have donated more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to charity than I can ever dream of but they are NOT GOOD.

[oftheforest]

55. I also know a few people who voted for him.

And I still can't understand why. Well-educated, well-paid careers, though now retired. Some on disability. (I've known these people since high school, and I'm 65 now.) These people will most likely be affected, as most of us will be, by his dismantling of America.
The only thing I can see....the lies about Hillary Clinton were MUCH WORSE than the "lies" about him. They could not, in all good conscience, vote for her as per the demands of their preferred news source. Since one set of lies were real, and the others weren't I differentiated with the quotes. They do not see him as anything but a savior. I still have trouble talking to these friends to this day.

They are brainwashed.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

61. Brainwashed is right. Some of them really believe that the Clintons murdered people too.

I almost never watch FOX News because I can't stomach the misinformation for very long. However, I watched it a few weeks ago in the afternoon, when their channel is supposed to be more news focused, to see if they were covering the story about Jared Kushner asking a Russian ambassador for help communicating with the Kremlin. (They weren't.)

The amount of coverage by FOX on supposed Muslim threats to Christians around the world blew my mind!

Anyway, I can imagine that anyone gullible and fearful enough to think it was all true could support Trump. They might even dislike his "grabbing them by the pussy" remarks, but they'd probably overlook it if they thought he'd take a stronger stand against Muslims.

[Skittles]

73. they had another choice if they hated Hillary

they could NOT VOTED

to have actually voted for that piece of shit - there IS NO EXCUSE

[Buckeye_Democrat]

119. I think he's a disgusting piece of shit too.

I've observed some coworkers in the past who really got caught up in the right-wing media BS, though, and I try to imagine how I might behave if I fell for it.

They remind me of some very religious people that I've met who attend church constantly. It's like they need their "fix" for regular reassurance.

One of the guys behaved like a nervous drug addict if other coworkers didn't allow him to switch the break room TV to FOX News like he requested on lunch breaks. (People usually acquiesced.) He'd then eat in his car so he could listen to AM radio instead.

[Skittles]

220. the only way I can envision falling for it

is if I am an easily-manipulated idiot......and deep down, I think I am BETTER than certain groups of people

[Buckeye_Democrat]

221. That's surely true compared to those people. n/t

[democratisphere]

56. If a person subscribes to the drumpf doctrine they are hardly very good,

kind and gentle.

[AuntPatsy]

57. You obviously dont know them as well

As you think you do

[MiddleClass]

58. It takes all kinds, to each his own

Most of my friends are Republicans,

yes, I take a ribbing.

After the election. My best friend bought me a pair of Hillary Clinton socks,

told me, I can still bring her to bed at night.


Personally, what makes America great is that all opinions are just that, opinion right or wrong.

The pendulum swings too far their way, I get mad, to far my way also get mad, yes center left.

I understand all of the legitimate agro, I feel the same way, to me, people have their reasons.

It's okay, I'll defend, but not preach, that ruins friendships

[Duppers]

152. Democratic principles are just opinions??!

Bullcrappy.

[MiddleClass]

243. The normal people. They are principles

The conservatives think they are opinions.

I didn't say there were right, I would actually say they are wrong, but think

in America, everyone has the right to be a asshole, and it's my opinion they are.

But I won't call them en asshole, unless they asked my opinion,

then it is their fault for asking my opinion.

I find that way conservatives take criticism because it's on their own terms.

Thus, no argument

[WinkyDink]

203. "OPINION"? You think this new Republican "health-care" (tax) bill is just an "OPINION"?? You think

that Trump's destruction of every Cabinet Dept is just an "OPINION"?

If you haven't yet gotten the point, ....

[MiddleClass]

244. Absolutely not, the healthcare tax cut for rich bill is abhorrent, robotic Bullshit

The Republicans opinion that this bill is good, I consider it a serious character flaw.

But again, America has the right to be a ass hole, but if you hold that opinion above.

I have a lot less respect for you, and please God, they don't ask me.

My level of respect for them.

Americans have the right to be opinionated ass holds and I am.

I found being belligerent, it's easier to pick your battles

[Honeycombe8]

60. Yes, we are living in bizarro world, where people are admiring the emperor's new clothes...

but in fact he's naked!

[MiddleClass]

246. Excellent, observant, succinct

Exactly

[yewberry]

62. I don't.

I know one person, maybe two, who voted for Trump. One is an utter MRA asshole, and the other wondered aloud about it simply out of the meanness in her heart.

They don't have good judgment, and they are not an asset to the community. Otherwise, I don't know a soul who voted for that grifter scum.

The problem isn't just the media. It's the conviction that they, the true, authentic Americans, are suffering while (and because) the rest of us are prospering. The agenda of the bad people holds sway in their diseased minds, and they look back in fondness to a time when they felt free to look down on us and suppress the rights of women and people of color as part of their superiority. They believe that success and happiness are a zero-sum game, and if anyone who isn't part of their Christian, white, male-dominated worldview, then they themselves have lost something.

Fuck them.

[hay rick]

63. If you buy evil with your vote, blood doesn't wash off your hands for some random act of kindness.

I have not found a nice way to tell "nice" people that they have betrayed their country, themselves, and their children.

[Squinch]

64. I know a lot of people who voted for Trump. They are neither good, nor kind, nor gentle.

They are people who have brought sexist, racist chaos into all our lives. They are about to be responsible for untold deaths.

[njhoneybadger]

65. Your absolutely fucking right

The Republican Party has become a propaganda machine.
Check your road and the nature of your battle.



"Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people. (...) All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed. (...) The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses. The broad masses of the people are not made up of diplomats or professors of public jurisprudence nor simply of persons who are able to form reasoned judgment in given cases, but a vacillating crowd of human children who are constantly wavering between one idea and another.



"Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favourable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favourable to its own side. (...) The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. (...) Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula.
Mein Kampf

[Snake Plissken]

67. Some very good, kind and gentle people voted Pablo Escobar into the Chamber of Reps of Colombia

As did some very good, kind and gentle people in Germany voted for Hitler.

And all of them including the Trump supporters you know have one thing in common, they all supported evil.

[BamaRefugee]

80. a good new acronym that I got from this thread

POWPs...
PISSED OFF WHITE PEOPLE...this is the deplorables, the assholes, the racists, the wife beaters, the haters, the gun humpers, all of that lot summed up in 4 very tidy letters

[lunasun]

97. How would you pronounce it ? I'm thinking Poe-whips , powwp? I like it too for in public

[BamaRefugee]

126. maybe I'll pronounce it "POLYPS", pretty much sums them up!!!! ;-)

[elmac]

83. I would describe any tRump supporters using those words

but the word stupid pretty much covers them all.

[LaydeeBug]

85. If my crazy aunt poisons my kids, it doesn't matter how nice and gentle she is, my kids are still

poisoned.

This is why you can't 'reach out' to those motherfuckers.

It normalizes this.

[LenaBaby61]

91. Good-Luck to a middle-class, tRump supporting family ...

Who thinks there will be tax-cuts for them from tRumputin, and who are HAPPY to see that nasty old Obummer Care go away ....

Because the only people who'll really get those GOP/tRump tax cuts are the uber-wealthy/rich like Wilbur, Rex, Betsy, Schwarzman, tRumputin (tRumputin's still underwater--& owes tons of monies to Deutsche Bank, "Chiner," ruskie oligarchs, various mobsters et al, but he and family (Crooked Kushner included) are working on raping this country of it's wealth so they can become billionaires)--those people. Yertle and Lyin' Ryan are going to systematically destroy whats left of the middle-class, and one way to do that is through passing their death care bill, and watching the middle-classers who struggle to pay their exploding premium costs monthly. That's for starters. Then away goes the few middle-class tax-deductions remaining, and viola!

A tRump supporting, 2-income earning family (hubby-42/wife-40/2 teen kids 13/15, $110,000 year salary combined--$59 thousand in savings). Husband/wife doubled-up on their payments over the years, and they own their home outright. Uh oh....Dad gets diagnosed with an aggressive form of Cancer,, and he cannot work. He's treated for 9 months (Won't receive 'essential health benefits' though under the GOP's death care bill) and is improving, but still needs more cancer treatment. Oh no, he's hit his lifetime Cancer treatment cap though. Yikes...but he needs more EXPENSIVE treatment.

Well, there goes the $59 thousand in savings, and I guess their home becomes a piggy bank to pay for the REST of his treatment.

Good luck to that tRump-supporting family though, especially if Dad needs more treatment after they've wiped out their savings and pulled most of the equity out of their home after 10 plus months of him having Cancer treatment

[athena]

92. Are they good, kind, and gentle to people of color, too?

Or only to white people who agree with them?

I know a Trump supporter, too. If you're a white person who agrees with her hateful, fearful, and racist rhetoric, she will seem "kind and gentle" on the surface. But there is nothing "kind and gentle" about the contemptuous way she talks about Black people. And the moment you disagree with her hateful rhetoric, she turns on you, and the fake gentleness disappears.

I'm sorry, but a person who supports Trump is a racist. If they were not racist, the dog-whistles blown by the right-wing media would not have resonated with them. There is simply no way that you will not find racism in a Trump supporter if you merely scratch a little below the surface. And there is absolutely nothing kind and gentle about a racist. They are the most hateful and dangerous people on earth. Stop making excuses for hateful people. Stop tolerating intolerance.

[dalton99a]

123. Good point. Heck, Hitler was very kind and gentle to children

Aryan children, that is. He didn't even eat meat. Some of his paintings looked decent.

The jury is still out as to whether he was a good man

[MiddleClass]

252. Then how do you explain the biggest Trumpster I know is black?

I must admit that I'm not smart enough to psychoanalyze him, but

he lived for 20 years in the South, was a full package gunnut,

really believes most of the gun crime is in places with strict gun laws.

Doesn't believe me when I tell him, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, has the most per capita.

My assumption is his Second Amendment right overrides his logic.

He states his most strident, ignorant, racist, opponents are other black people.

States correctly that most slaveowners were Democrats.

Southern Dixiecrat's were confederates, but became Republicans in 68

What happened then, you ask? Passage of the last Civil rights bill.

That part is conveniently forgotten

[athena]

264. The existence of ONE Black Trump supporter does not disprove that Trump supporters are racist.

You are making the assumption that a Black person cannot be racist. Such assumptions reveal a lack of understanding of how discrimination works. I see this all the time on DU: "Oh, that attitude is not sexist, because here is a woman who holds that attitude"; or, "Oh, that's not racist because I know a black guy who thinks that." You might as well say, "That person is not racist because he has Black friends!" In fact, Black people can be racist against Black people; women can be sexist against women. Living in a racist and sexist society ensures that all of us, regardless of our skin color and gender, have racist and sexist tendencies. You can try to overcome those tendencies, but they will never completely disappear. The only remedy is thoughtfulness and vigilance.

Being a member of a minority makes it more likely that one will be sensitive to discrimination against one's group. In other words, a woman is more likely to recognize sexism than a man; a black person is more likely to recognize racism than a white person. But that doesn't mean all sexists are men or that all racists are white. It just means we should listen to others, since they may notice things that may not be obvious to us.

In any case, the existence of one black Trump supporter does not change the fact that Trump supporters are overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly racist. If Trump supporters were not overwhelmingly racist, they would not have been attracted by Trump's dog whistles. There may be a small number of Trump supporters out there who are not racist but are sexist and therefore had to vote for Trump to teach Hillary a lesson. That doesn't change the fact that they are bigots. No one who is not a bigot would have voted for Trump given his racist, sexist, and otherwise hateful rhetoric. And there is nothing "good, kind, and gentle" about bigots.

[MiddleClass]

265. Nope, the most racist people I know are black. Making assumptions about all whites

People are people, being in New York City for over 30 years, where most people stereotype, including me.

It's not racism, in a way it's ignorant, but that's how New York deals with a massive amount of diversity. You know what to expect, but you respond only to what's happening in front of you. My point being exactly your point, with a few modifications. His black friends cannot accept his differing opinion, which is understandable, but where it becomes a problem is total intolerance that he has different opinion, again understandable (how can he suffer what I'm living through and not have the same opinion).

I don't know but, I think the most sexist people in the world are women, Archie Bunkers are there but fewer and farther between, and mostly Republican nowadays. A lot of people didn't vote for Hillary because they said they couldn't stand her, is that sexist, you might ask, but we don't know if it's very dangerous to assume one is doing it because sexism. But we can know in a big group. A lot of them are. But not all.

And that brings me to my point, nothing is absolute, perceived victimhood is worse than the crime. Think war on Christmas, Christians being oppressed in America, both sides do it.

[summer_in_TX]

94. Purged Voter - Thank You!

I too know some generous, kind, folks who voted for Trump.

They're victims of systematic, long-term propaganda machine, a nexus of Fox News, Rush and other RW commentators, members of conservative think-tanks, and even RW members of Congress. The system was set up and funded by right-wing billionaires who predated the Koch Brothers. The system they set up funded scholarships and university research, funnels those trained up through those programs into the American Enterprise Institute, Heritage Foundation, etc. They are groomed to become experts on their topic so they can be the reasoned, respectable face in our media. The respectable ones help make the less respectable more believable. They create an echo chamber, and what might be doubted if it were only one source is easier to swallow.

The other deliberate and pernicious strategy is by causing total distrust in any other source of information than right wing ones like Fox "fair and balanced" News. Years of attacking the "liberal media" and showing over and over every incidence they can attribute to liberal media bias (sometimes with cause, which makes it all much more effective, like when the MSM ignored John Edwards' affair while he ran for president).

What they see and hear on their news sources is far different than what those of us who get information from NPR, PBS, or even CBS, ABC, and NBC. The framing is different, the amount of time spent on things is different, when they learn about revelations like that of Comey, Russians, and special prosecutors, it is introduced in a way to sow doubt or discounting it as anything serious at all. Just the haters trying to tear down the duly elected President.

Then with gerrymandering they mostly live with like-minded people and rarely hear contradictory information. One of the many things that occurred after the FCC scuttled the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 and the right wing media started their constant and harsh criticism of liberals and the liberal media, it felt much less safe to have any political discussions. Many of us became afraid that we'd be screamed at and excoriated too, so we started censoring ourselves or only discussing it in like-minded groups.

Brainwashing has become incredibly sophisticated. Lots of research dollars have been poured into developing the most effective advertising techniques (a.k.a. brainwashing techniques), ways to bypass rational thought and go straight to the emotions.

I agree, PurgedVoter. Media reform is urgent! Nothing we progressives care about can be fixed if we don't fix that!

[njhoneybadger]

104. Yes!! Well said

[sheshe2]

142. They heard what they wanted to hear from the media.

They cheered it and embraced the hate, they love their guns and hate non white people, LGBT, evil feminist women and always will. They will never change. Their bigotry, racism and misogyny is inbreed and will never die. Racism has been going on since the civil war. You think it ended then...the slavery? It did not until WWII. SLAVERY DID NOT END WITH THE EMANCIPATION PROCLOMATION. It continued until WWII, that is a fact.

[NRaleighLiberal]

101. that you could vote for trump tells us all we need to know about your character.

[Doreen]

99. Maybe they might be so called good and gentle

but they CHOSE not to educate themselves before they made one of the most important votes that effect EVERYONE. I have no room for forgiveness for people who refuse to educate themselves for decisions they make or things they do.

[summer_in_TX]

124. Oh, many did choose to educate themselves.

They just entrusted their research to sources that Fox etc. cited and gave credibility to. Because they truly believe the other sources aren't trustworthy.

The ones I know generally are not stupid, they are college-educated, they are engaged citizens, generous with time and talent in serving their community, nonprofits and others, they're not racist or misogynists, and it's a mistake to assume they didn't work to inform themselves. Its their sources of information.

I did hear expressions of resentment at being labeled deplorables, and that people would assume that they must be racist or misogynistic. In fact, they started embracing the label, I think as a diss to those judging them.

[golfguru]

100. In 2020 election, only 1 thing will matter

How the US economy is doing! If it is bad, Trump will be a goner. If it is good, I am afraid Trump wins. But he has bad health habits. He is overweight, does not exercise and eats fatty foods. I will be surprised if he makes it to 75 age.

[deurbano]

105. At some point... some age... people have to take responsibility for their crap beliefs.

My dad was a member of the White Citizens' Council. My mom and only sibling attended 45's inauguration. Why am I not racist like they are? At some point... some age... people have to take responsibility for their crap beliefs.

When Obama didn't take their guns, why would they still believe Clinton would?

Deficits no problem under Bush, but an atrocity under Obama?

The same people who burn Dixie Chick cd's vote for a guy who trashes Bush, while lying he was always against the war on Iraq?

My mom said she could never vote for Clinton because that would let Bill back into the White House (and his morals are just too terrible for that)... but that pussy grabbing pervert is ok?

And the evangelicals?!

Their bottom line to me is "Make America White, Male and Heterosexual Again." That's what REALLY matters. (Notice none of them cared that Melania, a white woman, had been an undocumented worker... or that she has a heavy accent... or speaks another language with her child.) My dad (before he died) and other older white men who benefited from the best-economy-ever when they were young-- men who were able to rise from their poor, working class origins to professional, middle class lives--still seethe with resentment at the cultural changes that have made their ilk not QUITE as dominant.

My dad, living in CA, was so mad he couldn't see straight when HRC was elected senator from NY. Why the hell would he care?! I think the whole "vast, right-wing conspiracy" was the result of an uppity woman from Illinois arriving in Arkansas and declining to properly embody the stereotype of "governor's wife"... with the utter contempt for her then extended to the "cuck" who would "allow" such a breach of all that is decent. His presidential campaign and election elicited the same anxiety and contempt on a more massive scale. It's not about economics, but about wanting to maintain the previous balance of power-- the "good old days." They own that.

Yes, they are brainwashed. But that's just reinforcing what is already most important to them. Otherwise, most of them are obviously voting against their own self-interest. But if their main "interest" is "Make America White, Male and Heterosexual Again," they are on the right track.

[LenaBaby61]

122. Excellent post, and very well-said ...

&

[dalton99a]

197. +1

[Duppers]

106. I'll believe everything up to the point of "quite intelligent"

Years ago I tried listening to Fox and Slimebaugh but it only took a few times to realize they were spewing lies and hate. If anyone cannot discern this, I consider them not only uninformed but quite unintelligent.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

108. Good, kind, and gentle people don't vote for evil monsters like Trump.

[oxbow]

112. Democracy only works with a free and independent press

We all know now how dangerous democracy can be when the press is weaponized for the sake of one party. The entire world is at peril because of their war on truth.

[NRaleighLiberal]

113. as far as I know, I don't. Those I do know live in fear and are brainwashed followers

I can't bring myself to use the terms kind or gentle, or whatever after they voted for trump knowing full well what he was and what he stood for. I won't enable their failure.

Just not a nice guy, I guess....but not ready to play nice and be a sucker one more time. We should all be very done with that.

[malchickiwick]

114. Ummmm...OP fake news/alt facts.

I must emphatically beg to differ with the premise of the OP. Voting for Trump is mutually exclusive with kindness, gentleness, or even just common decency.

[madaboutharry]

117. I don't think you really know who they are.

They might act like good and gentle people.

But they voted for a man who called Mexicans rapists, wants to ban Muslims, said vile things about women, was accused of assaulting women, stole from contractors who worked on his projects, has behaved like an uncouth and unstable lunatic, and has been caught in literally hundreds of lies.

He is a hate monger.

And they voted for him.

[democratisphere]

118. Trolls engaged in Democratic destruction.

[standingtall]

127. Great another one of these be nice

to Trump voters threads. Absolutely not! being nice to them will only encourage them to be bigger jerks. Now is not the time to come together with them period. They have to repent from their evilness first. You cannot fix the right wing media brainwash machine without fixing the people that support it first.

If your friends support people taking taking away your healthcare,suppressing your wages trampling on your rights etc than their really not your friends and you should avoid them when ever possible.

[Historic NY]

129. There were kind and gentle Hilter supporters too.

[leftofcool]

130. Oh good fucking god!

Please just go away.

[Maven]

131. Nah. nt

[davsand]

132. Nope. Scratch deep enough and you'll find crap.

There is no voting for an openly racist SOB like him if you hold a single shred of decency. Screw that noise. They f***ed me, my family, and this country when they voted for him. It doesn't matter if you/they are stupid, hoodwinked or misinformed it was still a vote for a pig who BRAGS about assaulting women and who openly mocks the disabled.

My single consolation in any of this is they all are suffering right along with the rest of us. Fuck them all and may they spend eternity suffering for what they have done.

Not over it yet.


Laura

[DonCoquixote]

133. Since you are honest, I will try not to yell

I have heard ten thousand versions of "Not all Trump voters were bigots." I have heard Jon Stewart say it, I have heard many here on DI say it. Some more malicious variations of this are "People were suffering so bad in the Midwest and Hillary was too busy trying to make those rich hipsters in the city happy." I have heard people say it who had no grudges against gays/women/immigrants and I have heard some use it to hide the fact that they felt said groups got too much attention, as opposed to the "white working class" , aka the people who thought the Democratic party should be about them first, if not them only. I even heard Bernie say a variant of this, and while yes, he tried to rein it in, by the time his supporters yelled at blacks calling them "you people!" the damage to trust was done.

Why did I go through this, especially as I know you were not trying to add malice, and not trying to defend this, because right now, under the guise of "unity" there is an attempt to defend those offended feelings of those people who have been undermining any attempt to form a coherent, clear, left based message, and that they have been doing that since they became the "Reagan Democrats." Now, more than ever, these people do NOT need comfort, because however "not a bigot" they say they are, they were very much willing to let one come into power. One can have more sympathy for some yahoo that was raised on the stars and bars voting that way, as thanks to corruption of the schools and yes, churches, they did not know any better. However, the defected democrats, be they the "union guy" that just wants JOBS, or the more left wing than though who just wanted to say "fuck the clintons!", should have known better. They broke the nation the way a child broke a toy, and they have the nerve to posotion themselves as wiser and more virtuous.

So, sorry to say, I do not care how nice these voters are, because as much as Americans cherish the idea of the individual, we are also a group, with rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES. If they voted Trump, they need to realize that no, we are not going to beg, we are not going to change ourselves, to compromise to the point where we forsake the truth that we know and have known. When you hear these folk write "you know this is a right based county, you are going to lose" then we can remind them that wen the McArthys, Nixons, and yes Bushes fell, they fell so hard that they are not even acknowledged, except in the alt right that tries to spin apologetic for them that not even most GOP buy. REALITY IS ON OUR SIDE, and frankly, it is high time we acted like it.

[trueblue2007]

136. Hillary would have been worse??? SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN 100000% BETTER !!!

What are you talking about anyway?


Much of the media is right on !!! like MSNBC.

Sorry, I don't agree with anything you're posting.

[Hoyt]

137. If they are for the health plan as it seems to be shaking out, they don't sound compassionate.

Same if they support the wall, deportation, tramping on the world exciting Paris Accord, bashing good foreign countries who were allies, and worse.

Ask them whether they think Trump will try to vastly improve the cruddy health legislation Congress is cooking up.

I know some folks like that. They seem compassionate, but they are fine with hateful legislation. Not much we can do.

[njhoneybadger]

138. It is possible to be very good,kind and gentle and have supported tRump

My mother is one of them. She lives in a religious bubble. She goes to a church where the MSM is considered to be the enemy. So she only watches Fox News. It's that Hillary was so horribly vilified on Fox News that anybody else(even trump) seemed better. She can't believe that people on Fox would lie to their audience. It's the same reason why old people are so easily taken in on a scam.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

149. Hannity is still pushing the Seth Rich murder conspiracy.

If someone really believes that, it's not hard to imagine that person voting against her.

From what I observed in general message boards after the election, the Trump voters devoted far more of their time celebrating Hillary's loss (and liberals being upset) rather than expressing optimism about Trump.

FOX News, AM talk radio and right-wing websites spread the same messages. It's more anti-liberal than anything else.

They don't mind African Americans if they're Republican from what I've seen. If African Americans suddenly voted for Republicans in large numbers, their coverage of AA's would improve dramatically. The same applies to Muslims if they suddenly held up signs around the world that said, "We love you USA! Please install a military base and lots of your corporations here!"

Their main concern is economic policies that help the wealthy. Since the wealthy are a minority, they rely on propaganda to get people to vote for their big business agendas.

Edit: It's also EASIER for them to spout lies that put their liberal enemies in a bad light, at least among the politicians. It's not easy for a politician to sue for slander! The media can more easily be sued if it presents a story against a powerful businessman that's not entirely true.

[Awsi Dooger]

140. I know some women as described by the OP, but not men

Men who support Trump are simplistic and angry and white. I'm not sure I've met one outside that description. I sensed their numbers and 2016 ferocity not only from my Las Vegas decades but particularly from the Doral golf tournament in March 2016. It was at Trump's course but that had nothing to do with the comments I heard among spectators all week. It was beyond scary and I knew it was potentially ominous toward November. Nobody who attended an event like that would ever have dismissed Trump's chances. Unfortunately I think too many of our strategists were looking at idiotic polls and making foolish conventional wisdom assumptions.

Those men are a lost cause. On the other hand, there are some female Trump supporters I know who drive me absolutely nuts. They are indeed thoughtful and kind. They are also very religious and now very scared. Every fear is taken to the extreme. They tell me they don't want gays kissing in the pew in front of them in church. They don't want Mexicans pouring across the border, or Muslims executing their next plot. Build that wall. I'm only talking about 5 women but all of them emphasize building the wall above any other priority. I'm astonished how effective that one proposal became.

They really didn't hate Hillary but were pounded by so many lies and fake news articles they could recite them one by one.

This is another aspect I've noticed: The Trump men continue to follow the news and don't care what he's charged with or what anyone says. They dismiss it as media or liberal lies and back Trump 100%. The women hear the negativity and merely tune it out for a week or few weeks, until sensing it's safe to return.

Yes, Fox News in doctor's offices. I experienced that for 3 hours last week. I was squirming and shaking my head in disgust all the way but as I sampled others in the waiting room they were either mesmerized or taking it in stride like their daily normalcy.

[Cha]

141. So what? they're brainwashed by EVIL.. that makes

them a danger to themselves, to us, to our country, and to our Planet.

They don't think for their damn selves.

[Kath2]

153. Right on.

They threaten the entire world and put us all in danger.

"Good and kind" doesn't accept women dying in alleys from botched abortions.

[Cha]

160. I know, Kath.. give me a break!

[standingtall]

143. Simply limiting our anger to republican

politicians or right wing media figures is not a winning strategy.Now is the time to get down and dirty in your face personal. Now is the time time for a greater schism. The country must get further apart first before it can come together again. We are not having the type of disagreement where one side likes chocolate ice cream and the other likes vanilla. We are having the type of disagreements that forces us to part company.

[lunamagica]

144. Sorry, but I don't believe that anyone who voted for someone who mocks the disabled is "kind and

gentle"

When I saw him doing that, I thought "now he's done. Who could vote for someone who is so cruel"

I thought they'd be disgusted by that. Now I think they thought it was Oh, so so funny!

Deplorables, all of them

[njhoneybadger]

147. Someone who was told crooked Hillary was behind several murders

and running a child sex ring would vote for him

[Tarheel_Dem]

145. Kind and gentle my ass. F**k 'em. n/t

[Cha]

168. Damn straight..

they put on a good front then.

[KingCharlemagne]

174. +Infinity. The adults deserve a retribution that is Biblical in

scope.

[Persisted]

148. Good Germans. nt

[fleabiscuit]

151. Helps to be grounded.

Link to tweet

[Kath2]

154. "Grab them by the pussy?"

I'm sorry, but anyone who would vote for a person who who makes sexist and racist remarks is not good.

[Duppers]

155. Tell me, would any of these "very good, kind and gentle Trump supporters"

Have any black folks to their house?
I mean for dinner?
Bet not.

And they're super-christians?

[susanna]

157. OK, I am going to pull one sentence from your post.

"The first thing we need to fix is the lying, evil conservative media."

How do you do that when every single one of his supporters (that I have met) thinks all other media are Fake News?

Please - I'm all ears.

[njhoneybadger]

162. That's the million dollar question.

Maybe it has to fix itself. Maybe when people have no job,no home,no food, no health care they we realize that it was all a big lie

[moondust]

158. Cult of Bigots.

Something in them was so strong that they willfully overlooked all kinds of disqualifiers:

One of the world's most prominent bigots, sexual predator, pathological liar, tool of Putin, never served anybody but himself, not a statesman, etc.

I think that something was/is bigotry. They hate "PC" because they are fed up with hiding their true nature in the name of public civility and domestic peace.

[Ron Green]

161. There are TWO bubbles on display here:

One contains the otherwise kind and helpful people who've been brainwashed by right-wing media that Trump is a true agent of change to somehow "make America great again."

In the other bubble reside many of the posters in this very thread, who cannot accept the fact that good-hearted people don't have the political acumen to see they've been had. If all your cohort are united in their abhorrence of Trump but blind to, and unforgiving of, the ignorance of their neighbors - then this is your bubble.

[njhoneybadger]

163. I think you are very wise ,my friend

[PurgedVoter]

164. The responses to this are interesting and I think some are frightening.

Let me put this more simply.
You must, of course, protect yourself from the brainwashed masses. Don't hate them, it does not help you. Your enemy is not the zombie, it is the brainwasher.

I am asked how do we stop the brainwasher. I am told that the masses are evil. The masses can be evil. They are being programmed to be evil. But fighting them does nothing.

The source must be stopped. Follow the money. Behind the corporations, behind the political groups, behind the think tanks, there are evil men that want us to hate each other and spend our wrath in a futile fight. I am not sure how to fight. When the elections are rigged and every Republican President in my life has been a traitor and every one of them has participated in rigged elections or worse yet became president without even being elected.

I don't know how to get our country back. We need to get it back quick, we are being poisoned and our world is being poisoned. I do know this. It is not the poor or the weak or the sick or unemployed that have caused so much damage to our country. It is the powerful. It is those with wealth. Our anger at the fools that follow the evil bastards at the top, does us only harm. Yes, a lot of them are brown shirts and possibly worse. But in a decent environment, they would not be.

Remember, that when you fall into hatred and anger, it is harder to see the truth. Just as the Mighty Wurlitzer has brainwashed the fools that support an obviously evil clown, these tools for deception are aimed at us as well. If we supporters of Hillary and Bernie are turned against each other, If we are consumed by anger for the idiot tea party zombies, we become distracted from the real enemy of our planet and our nation. It is easy to get angry and lash out at someone within reach. It is also useless.

We must aim higher. Those poor fools who voted for and still support Traitor Trump, are destroying themselves by their actions and beliefs. Lets not join them in their folly.

There are those that have voiced that I must be a shill for trying to speak out for reason. My advice is to examine those that council anger and hatred.

We need resolve. We need to take strong actions. We also need to think carefully and make sure our actions are aimed at the source of the problems and not at the victims.

[mackdaddy]

170. I think that the words Brainwashed and Cult are key here.

Much of the behavior of these dyed in the wool Trump supporters is indistinguishable from any true believers in a Cult.
Once someone is truly indoctrinated into a cult, much of their rational thought is cut off, or warped beyond outsiders understanding. Any information that contradicts their world view or understand of the facts is rejected or even attacked as an outrage. They often use the outside enemy that they must stay together as cohesive group of that enemy is going to get them.

Fox news on tv, and Limbaugh/Hannity/ect on radio just constantly indoctrinate these people. They use what are highly researched and effective psychological techniques to get people watching and then slowly rope them in and get them to believe the crap. Fox used a combination of overt sexuality and a quickmoving and inviting production visuals while their competitors were just playing the same thing over and over until it was boring. It worked and people did not even know they were being programmed.

Trump is kind of the logical conclusion. The devotees will overlook any flaw no matter how glaring and believe any BS claim against their enemy as long as it agrees with their programmed world view. I think that many of these Trump supporters really don't believe that they are racist xenophobes. And they can quote bible verses to prove it.

For way too many of the Trumpers, rational discussion and facts will never work. Maybe cult deprogramming, but only on the scale of a Fox news program.

[KingCharlemagne]

176. Oh please. The people you are calling "kind" and "good" wouldn't lose

a moment's sleep if I and my kind (Sociaists and Communists) were interned and eliminated. They're "good Germans," nothing more and nothing less.

[Marengo]

242. A good number of communists wouldn't lose sleep over doing the same either, so meh.

One set of assholes persecuting another.

[KingCharlemagne]

262. Um, Communists didnt start concentration camps. Communists

ended them. See 1945.

[Marengo]

263. Sure, Kolyma and Vorkuta were recreation facilities, and the Laogai was just one big happy fun..

Center. Save the BS for someone who doesn't know.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

179. Nice reply.

I find it interesting that most of the anger on DU seems to be directed at the brainwashed rather than the 94% of economically conservative voters who also voted for Trump. That group far more strongly supports cutting social programs. Those people could have also voted for Clinton instead of a person as mentally lazy and emotionally stunted as Trump, but they overwhelmingly did not.

Most of my anger is directed at them, to be honest. They're also the puppet masters of Trump's deplorable voters.

[athena]

202. You have not responded to some excellent points DUers made.

A broad accusation of "hatred and anger" against those who object to your characterization of deeply hateful and angry people as "good, kind, and gentle" proves nothing but your inability to acknowledge a flaw in your argument.

If you are an honest person, respond to the following question that was asked repeatedly of you: are these "good, kind, and gentle" Trump supporters also "good, kind, and gentle" to Black people and Hispanic immigrants? Are they? If so, why were they not turned off by the racism of Trump's campaign? If not, please explain why it is OK to call racists "good, kind, and gentle", while accusing those who object to racism of harboring "hate and anger".

Those who are filled with hatred and anger are not the ones who are objecting to your posts. They are the very people you are defending.

[milestogo]

171. Good people do not fuck over their fellow human beings.

Calling them good is buying into the lies.

[KingCharlemagne]

175. They're "good Germans." - nt

[KingCharlemagne]

173. No, you don't. They've conned you. - nt

[KingCharlemagne]

177. What's truly frightening is that your collaborationist screed has received 39

recommendtions.

[drray23]

178. Ok. I live in the south. I am Lilly white.

I meet plenty of people who would appear kind. Some think that since I am white I share their bigoted views. These people are not nice, they just appear so until you see what they truly are.

[dalton99a]

193. +1

Even to black people, they may be socially polite. But kind as in 'kindness in their heart"? No.

[RKP5637]

180. Individuals such as Rupert Murdock should be investigated, as well as the small number of kingpins

that own/manipulate the media outlets in the US. What is their agenda? Money, power, massive governmental influence, etc. None of this is by chance. America is flooded with propaganda, psyops brain washing. The population of the US is so damn naive, all for the most part sheep.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

182. Yes, to a large extent anyway. n/t

[RKP5637]

183. These 15 Billionaires Own America's News Media Companies

Yep, I don't this all of it's by chance ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/#1778e425660a

News that billionaire Peter Thiel is funding Hulk Hogan's trial against news website Gawker set the media and technology worlds on fire last week, sparking a conversation about the ultra-wealthy's role in controlling the news. While a billionaire secretly funding a lawsuit to take down a news outlet may be a new way of using money to influence the media business, billionaires have long exerted influence on the news simply by owning U.S. media outlets.

Some billionaires, like Rupert Murdoch and Michael Bloomberg are longtime media moguls who made their fortunes in the news business. Others, like Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, bought publications as a side investment after building a substantial fortune in another industry. Billionaires own part or all of several of America's influential national newspapers, including The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal and the New York Times NYT +1.44%, in addition to magazines, local papers and online publications.

Several other billionaires, including Comcast CMCSA -1.16% CEO Brian Roberts and Liberty Media LMCA +% Chairman John Malone, own or control cable TV networks that are powerful but not primarily news focused.

Here's a look at some of the billionaires who own news media in the United States: https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2016/06/01/these-15-billionaires-own-americas-news-media-companies/#1778e425660a

[Buckeye_Democrat]

186. It's dangerous! They're not accountable to the public through elections, yet...

... their power is immense!

The amount of faith placed in them by economic conservatives (and some neoliberals) would make an evangelist envious.

[RKP5637]

189. We have free speech, but little protection against contrived free speech to influence

covertly the direction of the country. These outlets are more powerful than the gov. of the US, in that each day they can chip away at how one thinks and thereby move the entire group think of a country. Fox News, News Max, etc. come to mind as examples! There are no checks and balances. The end of the Fairness Doctrine stopped that.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

190. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 also made it easier...

... for such limited ownership too.

Here's another aspect of the problem from a legal perspective:
Right-wing propagandists can spew ridiculous conspiracies about the Clintons (public figures) murdering Seth Rich and others, but a liberal organization would likely get sued for slander if it made such an unsubstantiated claim that was directed at a powerful businessman.

[RKP5637]

191. And, they become more powerful and more powerful. Today, most citizens are a bunch of clucks being

corralled into group think corralls by media.

[Orrex]

181. Fuck them. Fuck every single one of them. Fuck them.

Give me the names of these "kind and gentle Trump supporters," and I will personally tell them to go fuck themselves.

Perhaps they are not "evil people," but they are stupid people. Culpably stupid. Inexcusably stupid. Proudly stupid.


Fuck them. Faced with an undeniably racist rapid idiot, they collectively declared "he's the man for me."

There is no ambiguity here. Either they made that choice deliberately and with careful reflection (in which case, they can go fuck themselves) or they were too lazy and stupid to give the matter even basic consideration (in which case, they can go fuck themselves).


And, for our lurking Cave-Dwellers and Jerkoff Ridicules, I remind you that my power grows every time one of you idiot fuckheads calls me "primitive" or a "DUmmy." Have at it.

[Vilis Veritas]

185. Perhaps focusing our energies towards individual voters,

Is the wrong tactic, maybe we should focus on the machine that feeds their minds. They outclassed us in their ability to focus on message imo...

I see the democratic problem as one of cohesive vision. Due to our embracing of all, our focus can get muddled as we try to encompass all sides in our quest. While the r side just focus on their simple message god, guns, gods country...

These are just thoughts, I'm nobody...so don't get offended if I said something wrong...lol

Peace

[betsuni]

187. I know a bank where the wild thyme blows,

Where oxlips and nodding violet grows,
Quite over-canopied with luscious woodbine;
With sweet musk-roses and with eglantine;
There sleeps Titania sometime of the night,
Lull'd in these flowers with dances and delight,
And she says that Republicans can go blow themselves.

[WinkyDink]

199. Bwahaha! The Bard would approve!

[Locrian]

188. I wish...

I could recommend this post a million times.

We are ALL being manipulated. Them AND US. And we continue blindly down this path of destruction. We simply WILL NOT MAKE IT as a species if we continue to be divided. There is too much coming in the form of climate change, economics, health, etc.

We as democrats are supposed to be smarter, and I see us giving in to giving up or abandoning any attempt at common ground - or even using smart tactics to communicate and persuade. And we continue to (most of people) buy into the system as just the way it is and accept the frame they use as the reality.

We need to focus on the real enemy, as the OP has so eloquently posted.

[MineralMan]

192. How nice for you. I know none.

This is probably not the best website for your message. Praising Trump supporters is not likely to go over that well here, and with very good reason.

[Bettie]

196. You may see them as kind and gentle

but the fact is that they knowingly and openly voted for hate.

They don't mind someone mocking a disabled person

They don't mind someone advocating violence against people they disagree with (at his rallies).

They don't mind open racism.

They don't mind open hatred of LGBT+ people.

They don't mind simple hate of anyone who isn't white, straight, and Christian.

This doesn't make them good people. It shows who they really are under the veneer of "kind and gentle" and it isn't pretty.

I have relatives like this and I sit at gatherings and I keep to myself. The masks have been taken off of these people who I used to think were basically decent and now, I know who they really are, so I am cordial and polite, but I do not trust them one bit, knowing that they have so much hate inside them.

[WinkyDink]

198. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edmund Burke

[treestar]

204. They are willing to help people they know

they lack imagination to see that would never help more than a few of the desperate. Personal charity and churches didn't work, or we'd never have needed to make the laws of the FDR era. The rich as a class are only so charitable.

[CozyMystery]

212. My neighbor is one of those

He helps people he knows and cares about. Very generous with his money with one person, and with his physical labor for several. Seems nice, but believes every conspiracy theory the RW thinks up. Has a college degree in psychology. Ran a successful business until he retired.

He is a gun collector. He shoots every day. Some days, it is continuous shooting for two hours by him and his friends. Terrifies my dog. We live in a rural area.

I asked why he has all those guns (many different kinds). It is in case someone breaks into his house. He is 72. I asked if anyone had ever tried to break in, and he said no.

Then he said it is because, under Obama, we were all going to be starving and out of work. The people from town would come out here to cow paradise and try to steal our food and well water and kill us. So he will protect his food and water supply by killing them.

Now we have Trump, so he is not worried. But he still practices with his guns every day, and still fantasizes about *needing* to use them to kill people.

Hunting is important around here. So much that during hunting seasons, my dog wears an orange jacket, we have orange plastic ribbon around our fenced area, and our property is posted with no hunting signs.

This man will not hunt. He used to. Now he won't kill a deer because he can't stand the thought of killing animals. He will not kill any animal for meat, including farm animals. He is a catch-and-release fishman. He is a meat-eater, though. Oddly, he never takes his beloved cats to the vet or vaccinates them. He always has at least 10 outdoor cats. He keeps the numbers up by letting them procreate. Wild animals and cars take enough away so he never has more than 13 at a time.

If you met him, you'd think he was a nice guy. In some respects, he is. He loves cooking, gardening, and cats, and farm machinery. But underneath that placid exterior is a Trump can do no wrong supporter.

[treestar]

223. Interesting how in 8 years

of Obama, we were not all starving and out of work - wonder if he noticed that?

[CozyMystery]

224. Nope, he hates Obama.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

207. It's a kind of tribalism, I think.

I know a family of Trump voters, old friends of my family, who are among the nicest, kindest people I've ever met - in my own personal experience dealing with them. (I have never specifically discussed politics with them, except once when the old grandpa expressed surprise when I said I considered myself to be liberal. He didn't give me a hard time, though.) But the important thing is that we're members of their "tribe" of middle-class white people. It seems like many Trump voters (and even before Trump, many conservatives in general) are often generous and kind to people within their own circles, but are disinclined to extend their generosity outside their communities - their town or church or their racial or religious or ethnic identity.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

215. I had a white "deplorable" coworker who was addicted to FOX.

The black coworkers got upset at him and he'd reply like, "I'm not talking about you, Lamar! You're a good guy! I'm talking about those rioters on TV who probably don't even try to get a job!"

He was pretty close to one of those black guys, sitting with him at lunch and cracking jokes, but they didn't discuss politics most of the time when that happened.

[standingtall]

214. Trump supporters are not just

innocent victims. They are as much our enemies as the politicians they support. They may be victims in the sense they have been brainwashed,but so were the Nazi's that executed people in concentration camps in world war 2. Before we can even begin to forgive Trump supporters they need to come to repentance first. No sense in forgiving them for doing harm to people while they continue to do harm to people.

[Wiseman32218]

216. A lot of the voters for Trump I talked to only voted against Hillary, they believe the things said

about her

[spanone]

217. Bwahahahahahaaaaa ....yes, only kind and gentle people support these trump quotes

“You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything….Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”

“Ariana Huffington is unattractive, both inside and out. I fully understand why her former husband left her for a man – he made a good decision.”

“Meryl Streep, one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood, doesn’t know me but attacked last night at the Golden Globes. She is a Hillary flunky who lost big. For the 100th time, I never “mocked” a disabled reporter (would never do that) but simply showed him “groveling” when he totally changed a 16 year old story that he had written in order to make me look bad. Just more very dishonest media!”

“If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’”

“My fingers are long and beautiful, as, it has been well documented, are various other parts of my body.”

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass.”

“You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.”


Read more at http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/entertainment/people/donald-trump-quotes-57213#2Ksy3dmVOF2dOvSM.99

[DemocratSinceBirth]

222. Trump is trying to take health care away from the sick, the poor, the disabled, and the elderly.

There is absolutely nothing redeeming about his acolytes.

[Vinca]

225. The pussy grabbing story was not a secret. How on earth could anyone "good" vote for that????

[Orrex]

228. Absolutely, and he committed dozens of similar deal-breaker lapses like that

Mocking the disabled journalist, calling for gun owners to assassinate Clinton, calling for Russia to engage in espionage against the US, courting the white supremacist vote, barging in on naked teen girls, openly lusting after his daughter, multiple explicit conflicts of interest, the endless and obvious lying, the list goes on.

Any rational society would have rejected him outright, but an electoral majority of our blighted population said "that's the man for me."

[treestar]

230. Yeah I thought he was done for good

when that came out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

229. If there was an internet in 1933

If there was an internet in 1933 I wonder how many "I know some very good, kind and gentle Hitler supporters" posts we would see.

[stonecutter357]

232. if you voted for a racist pig you are a racist pig .

[BSdetect]

245. It is far more insidious than mere media BS

These people are being targeted individually.

And the vote rigging/suppression/denial is out of control.

[HughBeaumont]

247. Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggghhhhh . . .

"quite intelligent"

"President Donald Trump" . . . in what context that embodies reason, logic and intelligence does that SOUND like a good idea???

Also, have they lived in a CAVE for the past four decades and not seen the damage he's caused to his tenants, his labor and the small businesspersons he's serially stiffed?

"Compassionate"

His followers assaulted persons of color at his rallies . . . often by Trump's own encouragement.

His followers have no problem with his admitted serial sexual assault.

His followers have no problem with his science denial and Reagan-on-steroids brand of capitalism.

This isn't "compassionate". This is desperation by "strict-father" authoritarians for a non-embarrassing Republican president (hell, let's say it, "Politician&quot after a cavalcade of proven FAILURES, each one phenomenally worse than their predecessor.

The modern Republican party is a mean hate group, and I am SO Fucking TIRED of the repeated attempts at tu quoque, false equivalency and historical revisionism when it comes to Democratic and progressive politicians and causes.

[Solly Mack]

248. Apparently, I have no understanding of the words good, kind, and gentle.

[louis c]

249. You wouldn't believe how many Nazi's loved their children, also.

They also thought that Otto Wels was worse than Hitler.

[VOX]

260. These "good, kind and gentle" folks are NOT good, kind and gentle.

Because they obviously believe all the talking points that are fed to them from the toxic right-wing media.

They have willingly abandoned their moral compass and critical thinking to accept and believe the non-stop infomercial-for-#45. They absorb this "information," but do not reject it -- as reprehensible as it is. The Republicans are waging an all-out war on the poor, POC, women, seniors and children. Denying healthcare and public assistance. Trashing education. Letting murderous cops walk away freely. Dictating how a woman's body is to be treated (or not). Whipping up animosity for Muslims and anyone "different." Claiming Latinos are "taking jobs away from taxpayers and legal citizens."

In short, they adhere to the edicts emanating from what is arguably the most corrupt, opaque, cruel, ideologically twisted and blatantly un-American administration in the nation's history. Anyone who's on board with this galloping cancer (for any reason) is contributing to the pain, hardship and eventual death of far too many innocent fellow Americans.

[MountCleaners]

266. I'm not sure I agree

I know some of these people (not friends, but acquaintances) and Fox and RW talk radio wouldn't work if these people weren't receptive to it in the first place.

Knowing them, I can see that it really is racism. Not "n-word" racism (which is what they think 'racism' is), but a deafness to the concerns of people of color, especially black people. They have some pretty racist ideas about why black people vote for Democrats. The Democrats are the party of minorities and patronizing urban "elites" to them. This is pure prejudice. Look how many awful elitists there are in the GOP.

I'm not sure what can help this situation other than putting more black voices in the media, so that these people learn respect for black people's opinions.