Fascinating new RW talking point

[SethH]

great catch by Media Matters:

https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2017/06/26/new-right-wing-media-talking-point-its-no-big-deal-if-trump-colluded-russians/217034



Fox's Gregg Jarrett: "You can collude all you want with a foreign government in an election."

...

Fox's Brit Hume: Even if the Trump campaign did collude with Russia, “it’s not a crime.”

...

Fox’s Sean Hannity: If the Trump campaign communicated with and asked Russia to release hacked emails, "is that a crime?"

...

Fox’s Geraldo Rivera: If Trump’s team did collude with Russia, “what is the crime?”

...

Right-wing columnist Ronald Kessler: “There’s no violation of the law if, in fact, the campaign colluded with Russia.”

...

Conservative author Michael Reagan: “Collusion is not breaking the law.”

...

[gordianot]

1. Get set, Get ready.........

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Whoops, that's the tell. He or at least the campaign *did* collude;

the RW media know or at least suspect it; and they're trying preemptively to inoculate the base against the charges that are likely to follow.

[Hortensis]

11. Has to be it. Guilty is good. Guilty's not guilty.

Sedition is just a political tactic... Hmmm, seems they have something there.

[Chasstev365]

3. Good; then lets get foreign governments who hate Trump help Dems in the 2018 mid terms

Geobellsvision, aka Fox "News" is such a joke!

[leftstreet]

5. Calling all leaders who've had their hands crushed by Trump

in his sick, alpha male wannabe handshake

Please collude with us to get rid of him!

[jberryhill]

4. Unreal

Every time you think, "Oh, no, they can't go any lower than that...."

[leftstreet]

6. col.lu.sion

col·lu·sion
kəˈlo͞oZHən/
noun
noun: collusion

secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.


Whoops GOPers, there's that 'or illegal' thingy.
So maybe it could be a crime, ya think?

[mr_lebowski]

21. That definition does not define 'collusion' as inherently illegal ...

IOW one reason an action COULD be logically called 'collusion' ... is BECAUSE it's 'inherently illegal' ... but it doesn't work the other way round. 'Involving Secrecy' .... is another definition, you see?

The problem here, for US ... is proving exactly 'what statute' ... would literally make it illegal for Trumps people ... to ask Russians to help them win the election ... esp. if it couldn't be proven Trumps people knew what specific illegal 'acts' were to be undertaken in that effort.

However, if it could be proven that a 'bribe' was offered, of any kind (including but not limited to removal of sanctions), in exchange for KNOWN illegal activity like breaking into a secured computer network ... that probably gets us into the realm of actual illegal collusion.

But it could be very hard to prove, esp. if we have to prove Trump ORDERED his people to make such an offer, and knew he was 'paying' for a law to be broken.

[procon]

7. Well, it certainly looks like everyone got the memo.

Combine the parrot patrol at Fox with all the recent stories about Trump and everyone in his inner circle all suddenly lawyering up, and indeed there may very well be something wicked this way comes.

[marylandblue]

8. Well I guess there is no crime called "collusion"

But there is treason and bribery, which usually involve some form of collusion.

[Achilleaze]

9. republican propaganda pimps OK with treason against USA

all to protect Comrade Casino, the republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief.

Disgusting.

[njhoneybadger]

10. I wonder if they flipped Flynn?

[Hortensis]

13. Maybe. Flynn offered to flip himself in return for not going

to prison. The JD declined, of course, but with a mountain of evidence against him very likely made its own offer. Yet, Flynn's literally one among many the JD is investigating. Any might be the monster under the pubs' bed.

[njhoneybadger]

16. Flynn flip would also make it hard for the rump to fire mueller

[iamateacher]

12. That's what I thought...

Flynn has flipped, and now sets the stage for others...

[njhoneybadger]

14. Great minds think alike

[Awsi Dooger]

15. Treason is not so bad either

In fact, you need treason to fully activate the collusion.

Next

[AgadorSparticus]

42. +1

[Squinch]

17. Next up: "Isn't murder really just population control?"

[AgadorSparticus]

43. +1

[Demsrule86]

18. It is a crime which is why it is being investigated by the FBI...quid pro quo...

[Mr. Ected]

19. And where are the liberal talking heads? Why aren't they IMMEDIATELY disputing this bullshit?

Don't let them control the fucking narrative. With apologies to Laydeebug.

[Cosmocat]

20. America First!

We are true patriots!

[genxlib]

22. Despite any other law

It is a direct violation of the emoluments clause because god knows the presidency has been valuable to trump

[kentuck]

23. From the US Code of Laws:

<snip>
Whoever--

 directly or indirectly, corruptly gives, offers or promises anything of value to any public official or person who has been selected to be a public official, or offers or promises any public official or any person who has been selected to be a public official to give anything of value to any other person or entity, with intent--

 to influence any official act;  or

 to influence such public official or person who has been selected to be a public official to commit or aid in committing, or collude in, or allow, any fraud, or make opportunity for the commission of any fraud, on the United States;  or

 to induce such public official or such person who has been selected to be a public official to do or omit to do any act in violation of the lawful duty of such official or person;

 being a public official or person selected to be a public official, directly or indirectly, corruptly demands, seeks, receives, accepts, or agrees to receive or accept anything of value personally or for any other person or entity, in return for:

 being influenced in the performance of any official act;

 being influenced to commit or aid in committing, or to collude in, or allow, any fraud, or make opportunity for the commission of any fraud, on the United States;  or

 being induced to do or omit to do any act in violation of the official duty of such official or person;  

 directly or indirectly, corruptly gives, offers, or promises anything of value to any person, or offers or promises such person to give anything of value to any other person or entity, with intent to influence the testimony under oath or affirmation of such first-mentioned person as a witness upon a trial, hearing, or other proceeding, before any court, any committee of either House or both Houses of Congress, or any agency, commission, or officer authorized by the laws of the United States to hear evidence or take testimony, or with intent to influence such person to absent himself therefrom;

 directly or indirectly, corruptly demands, seeks, receives, accepts, or agrees to receive or accept anything of value personally or for any other person or entity in return for being influenced in testimony under oath or affirmation as a witness upon any such trial, hearing, or other proceeding, or in return for absenting himself therefrom;

shall be fined under this title or not more than three times the monetary equivalent of the thing of value, whichever is greater, or imprisoned for not more than fifteen years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.

[Orrex]

24. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother

[meow2u3]

25. Shades of Nixon, only on steroids

"When the President does it, it means it's not illegal." - Richard M. "Tricky Dick" Nixon

[underpants]

26. They've been saying that for a while

But thanks for documenting it

[wryter2000]

27. Yup

They're giving us collusion but claiming there's nothing wrong with it. We'll see how that works for them.

[ProudLib72]

28. He didn't know collusion was a bad thing

Give the guy a break. It's not like he has any experience with politics.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

29. Good thing for us

that they don't get to define the law/decide what laws they want to follow and which ones they don't. If anything he has allegedly done fits the definition of a crime, then he can be prosecuted, impeached, etc. Of course, whether he will actually ever be held accountable is one thing but Republicans might want to think about what they are defending and how far to the mat they REALLY want to go for Donald J. Trump.

[Gothmog]

30. I am a law nerd and it is clear that collusion is against the law

Bob Bauer is President Obama's attorney and has done several articles for the legal blogs on this issue. Collusion is a crime under federal law under several different theories.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9256760

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9256768

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9256774

The law is clear here.

[spanone]

31. it's called 'whistling past the graveyard'

[3catwoman3]

32. More alternative facts?

This is doubleplus ungood BULLSHIT!

[RedSpartan]

33. They are trying to own the narrative, as usual.

Don't say collusion, say TREASON! Because that's what it is.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. IOKIYAR

Not if you're a Democrat, obviously.

[KatyaR]

35. OMG, please make it stop.

Every day I feel like a bit more of my sanity is disappearing. What is happening to our country? Are they really that desperate?

[keithbvadu2]

36. Republican meme: Russia is our friend.

Republican meme: Russia is our friend.

Putin is getting his money's worth out of his investment in Trump.

[tblue37]

37. And if Benedict Arnold did collude with the British, so what? Is that even a crime? nt

[Honeycombe8]

38. Yeah, Trump can say that as they cuff him and cart him off to his luxury prison cell.

(I'm dreaming)

This position is code to Trumpers, that this is what they are supposed to say. The reality is that they don't think it's that big a deal, as long as Russia takes over our govt so that Republicans can be in nominal charge. If Russia backs a Democrat, it will suddenly become a CRIME, TRAITOROUS.

[Brainfodder]

39. Yup they have to keep it simple for their simpleton base

You have to be really ignorant and/or stupid to still believe in DJT 100%.

For me, there is no repair after: TRUMP UNIVERSITY

That fiasco should have been the wake up call to them, that he will do or say anything for $, and what's a good excuse for standing by a guy who would do that? (meanwhile more examples come to light weekly)

The Reps in D.C. are in cahoots and don't really care about "the people" any more, unless it's themselves, that is crystal clear now more than ever.

[lpbk2713]

40. Meanwhile ... Barry Goldwater is spinning in his grave.

[WinkyDink]

41. "Collusion" is a business term. A political term might be "Electoral Fraud." Even "Coup d'Etat."

But nevertheless, FOX is wrong: collusion is a criminal endeavor.

[Snotcicles]

44. If you drive the get away car, driving isn't the crime. LOL Deplorables are so *ucking stupid. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Trump's People at their FBI interviews