Is A Second Civil War Inevitable?

[Initech]

Interesting read from Raw Story:

There is something about the behavior of Donald Trump in the White House that is almost hallucinatory. What is to be done about a president who seems impervious to normal standards of decency, who makes name-calling and ranting our new normal, and who gravitates toward extremists? There is beastiality in this that challenges the courage and imagination of ordinary people.

As to the people who voted for Trump, one can only wonder if they will ever come out of denial. How can they possibly enjoy a situation that makes us the laughing stock of the world? It is almost as if Trump’s supporters belong to a different nation altogether.

A different nation.

One of the most demoralizing things about America today is the feeling that we are separating into “two nations,” two estranged populations who regard one another with a hatred that defies conciliation.

There are plenty of divisions in our polity that will never vanish completely, divisions we have lived with for years. Not the least of them is the perfectly normal division that results from our two-party system. But there was something quite different in 2016 as the “blue state” Americans and “red state” Americans assailed one another. There was something very different as, according to many accounts, the candidacy of Trump led to family break-ups and divorces. There was something about the election of 2016 that cut like a knife.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/america-in-crisis-is-a-second-civil-war-in-the-making/

[cilla4progress]

1. I fear

It is.

[jberryhill]

2. Did that author use a spellchecker, or ignorant of what "beastiality" means?

The correct spelling is bestiality, but I'm not quite getting the usage in context here.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. I think the author meant something like "beastliness,"

but such a ludicrous mistake tends to detract from the credibility of the piece. I don't really believe that *all* Republicans have sex with goats.

[jberryhill]

13. .

[Big_K]

29. When they go after the goats, it causes

TROUBLE!

[pnwest]

58. OMG, that still sends me into fits of giggling....SO effing funny!

[anarch]

15. see, that's where you're wrong...I have it on good authority that all Rethugs do indeed fuck goats.

many people are saying so....

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. I think some of them do sheep.

[Hortensis]

39. Lol. Sadly, most.

[Lord_at_War]

48. Do you know how to frick a sheep?

Stand behind her on a cliff's edge, and she'll back up...

[mitch96]

28. The GOP..

Where men are men and sheep are afraid!!!
sorry, I could not help my self...
m

[KingCharlemagne]

50. What's the difference between the Rolling Stones and

a Scotsman?

[mitch96]

53. A kilt?

[KingCharlemagne]

55. The Rolling Stones said, "Hey, you, get off of my cloud" but a

Scotsman says, "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe!"

[mitch96]

56. Oy

But Funny!! I love word play you punster you...
m

[TomSlick]

63. Now that we've made fun of Scots

Whose next, French, Poles, Mexicans?

We’re a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns!

[KingCharlemagne]

70. Im Scotch-Irish, so I thought I could indulge. :) -nt

[TomSlick]

72. Not so much.

If you are at a St. Andrew's Society meeting and think Scottish ethnic jokes will fly, go for it. I'd advise against it but your call.

A joke on a public discussion site suggesting that bestiality is common among the Scottish is not acceptable. There is no room for mocking any ethnic group.

[KingCharlemagne]

87. Going to a meeting of Sinn Fein to joke about Oliver Cromwell might have the same effect, I'd

wager. The person who told me the joke is a Scots lady bartender of my acquaintance. So there are at least two Scots who find this joke hilarious! We are, after a manner of speaking, poking fun at our own ethnic stereotypes as lonely shepherds out on the Highlands and moors without a Scots lady within several km.

[TomSlick]

89. I'll tell Scottish jokes among Scottish folk,

but not so much where Sassenachs are reading.

Here's the exception:

As the Heavenly Father was creating the world, he seemed to be paying special attention to the northern third of a large island off the coast of Europe. The angels noticed and asked what was going on. The Father pointed out the beautiful mountains, the lochs, the crystal streams. He was particularly proud of the peat bogs - "When the people here smoke malted barley over peat fire, they will make a liquor which they will call usquebaugh - the water of life - or usque for short. The rest of the world will corrupt their word to "whisky."

The angels asked why he was putting so many grand things in such a small area.

The father replied: "Well, I have to make up for the neighbors they'll have to the south."

Alba gu brath!

[KingCharlemagne]

90. Now THAT is truly funny (and takes the piss out of the Brits to boot!) - nt

[lastlib]

66. (Personally, I think all of them HAVE....

...at one time or another.....)

[marybourg]

8. Writer meant

"beastiiness".

[anarch]

12. well there certainly was plenty of ratfucking

involved in the 2016 election, but yeah, "beastliness" is probably the better word in context, as others have noted.

[aikoaiko]

68. RawStory. Nuff said.

[onenote]

3. Something either is inevitable or its not.

If you have to ask, then it probably isn't.

[jberryhill]

5. The writing is awful

"As to the Trump supporters"

"one another" for two defined entities, instead of "each other"

"But if the content of much of the on-line support for Donald Trump is to be taken seriously, something more indicative was happening."

[theophilus]

11. Well, it is "raw". Anyway, I sometimes wonder if these aren't produced by our Russian "friends". nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Yes, it's very awkward.

He also refers to a "welter" of people, which is an odd use of that word to describe a large group of people.

[theophilus]

4. I am not sure that the first one ever really ended.

At least, many in the Southern States have been continuing to fight any way that they could. That is one reason that they are susceptible to brainwashing and manipulation. Sad.

[SoCalMusicLover]

6. Lots Of Folks Still Love Their Little Racist Flags

The South will rise again, so they say. There are plenty who probably feel they're unfairly having to pay blacks for working, if you know what I'm getting at.

[theophilus]

9. Exactly. Some have managed to profit by locking up countless black men and having them work

for pennies a day. Slavery is back baby! Better even than sharecropping. Trump and his goons are amping up the prison industrial complex as we type.

[Initech]

16. I feel the same way.

The hatred for liberals that has come out of Trump supporters since the election is unlike anything I've ever seen.

[StevieM]

49. I don't know if I would agree with that. They have always been contemptuous of liberals

and seen us as "not Americans." I guess it is worse in the sense that it gets worse and worse every year.

But do you really think things would be any better under President Scott Walker?

[VOX]

22. Precisely. They still behave like embattled Confederates.

For them, the "War of Northern Aggression" will be over, especially when that stance inherently involves holding down an entire race of human beings.

[misanthrope]

57. If you were from the Deep South, you would know for sure it never ended

And if you don't think it has influenced modern politics and our current state of affairs, you've been in a coma.

[BittyJenkins]

10. I have thought a lot about that possibility

The first time I heard about Russian ties to Trumps campaign and Russian hacks last summer, I was thinking what can the government do. If they brought it out outright without the support of Republicans it would look like they were trying to sabotage the election. They needed Republicans to be shoulder to shoulder with them or it could easily trigger major violence. Violence on a major scale is still possible and very scary. I do wish we all believed in our judicial system but Trump is doing his best to say it is not trustworthy. Everyday I hope a large group of Republicans will stand up and say they love their country more than power. That has not happened yet.

[hadEnuf]

84. Divide and conquer.

Putin seems to like that strategy. He's got Trump by the nuts over something and Trump has the violent, armed, lunatic fascist supporters, so the rest is easy.

This must be pretty easy pickings from Putin's point of view.

[Corgigal]

14. Podcast time

Dan Carlin Common Sense. This week talks about this civil war issue. Makes ya think.

Got a little over an hour, do your self a favor and listen. I like to put it on the iPad at night, next to my pillow and play away.

[FreepFryer]

17. Gross. I hate when I am manipulated that coarsely by agitprop, don't you? (N/t)

[gordianot]

20. By Civil War do you mean organized military facing each other in the field? (No)

There are many other horrific scenarios leading the pack is wide spread vigilantism.

[First Speaker]

36. Agreed--it won't be like 1861...

...but the possibilities, as you suggest, are bad enough. The likeliest scenarios, it seems to me, will be either Mad Max-style anarchy, one party rule as in Hungary or Russia, open military intervention in our politics, partition, or low-level civil war--something like Northern Ireland on steroids. Or endless variations on all five scenarios. What I don't think is likely is a continuation of the USA as a united liberal democracy. This is a horrible thing to contemplate in my old age, but the fact is that we hate each other just as much as we did in the 1850s...

[KingCharlemagne]

51. On a somewhat-positive note, it could be like the ANC vs. apartheid

South Africa.

[Alice11111]

21. I think we are already in it, just not w guns.

We have imploded from within, and the world knows it.

[Amishman]

23. and lets hope it never comes to open violence

Not just on principle, but because our cause would be at a disadvantage. A left vs right fight would not go well as our side is heavily concentrated in cities, which are dependent on a centralized and vulnerable infrastructure of power lines, rail lines, bridges, pipelines, and water-mains. In open violence it would be frighteningly easy for rightwing nutjobs to cut off the lifelines that sustain metropolitan areas.

[Alice11111]

26. Plus, they all have big caches of weapons, &some are just

Dying for an excuse to try them all out.
Most of us do not. I keep wasp spray for burglars.
How will that do against an automatic weapon?

[AndyTiedye]

42. They Have the Nukes, We Have the Cities

What could possibly go wrong?

[Alice11111]

47. Well, maybe if we are nice enough & " inclusive" to Republicans,

...they will treat us well & be nice too.

[Blue_true]

75. We have pretty much all the scientists.

We can strike them with weapons that they can't imagine, selectively.

[KingCharlemagne]

52. Guerillas must swim like fish in the sea. RWNJs dont even know

how to fucking swim. They might be able to campaign for awhile like Nathan Bedford Forrest, but eventually our Grants, Shermans and Sheridans would kick their mother-fucking asses, just like we did in the first go-round.

[Blue_true]

74. That is why I prefer that we break into seperate countries now.

Just the anticipation of that will tamp down violence. Once we have our own country, we can build the infrastructure and banking system and business system and regulate them as we see fit. We can have the school system that we want. We can have the healthcare system that we want.

[pangaia]

59. There will be violence and there will be guns..

[blueinredohio]

24. I think if Trump is found guilty of anything and they try to take him out he

Will refuse yo go and that's when we will see civil war started

[crosinski]

25. Fundamentalists, sociopaths, and psychopaths vs the rest of us? Maybe. n/t

[briv1016]

27. Any organized armed resitance would be met with Donald bombing (nuke) NY and LA.

The resulting economic collapse would make everything else irrelevant.

[Initech]

32. That would be the scary thing.

The right has guns, and the right now has the launch codes. Any armed resistance against Trump would be met with genocide.

[AndyTiedye]

43. Would Trump Bomb His Own Home?

There is that little problem for him.

[briv1016]

45. He has insurance.

I doubt it would be the first time be burned a property for the insurance money.

[davsand]

44. Probably Chicago would be a target for him.

He's already fixated on it. He keeps talking about the crime and sending in "the feds."




Laura

[roamer65]

64. There would be a refusal by the military, followed quickly by a coup d'etat.

[GotHillsback]

30. Civil War.

Oh my, I certainly hope it does not turn to all out violence. What's happening in our country right now is terrible, this is not how we settle things.
Besides the conservatives are a extremely scary bunch, they own so many weapons and live in that culture. I've never touched a gun in my life and never will, so many soldiers and cops are Republicans. I'm afraid they have too many trained killers on their side.
I think if we can stay the course we will win, with reason, logic and love. Those that live by the sword die by the sword.

[Blue_true]

76. Look, why are you so fixated and afraid of them having guns.

There are weapons that exist or can be built easily that will melt a rightwinger and his or her guns and ammo on the spot.

The gun people that use their guns as a threat have no fucking idea how short their lives will be if the country goes to hell because of them, they will unleash Forces that there is no way they can fucking contain, regardless of the number of guns and ammo they have stockpiled.

[Boomerproud]

31. I said the very same thing at lunch the day after the congressman was shot and

one of my co-workers blurted out "Did you see the news last night? Five Republican congressmen were shot by a liberal." When I corrected her that there was 1 congressman, lobbyists and 2 police officers she said "Did you vote for Hillary Clinton?" I let out a heavy sigh and said "A new civil war would not surprise me in the least." The trumpets gave me a very confused look.

[Xolodno]

33. Inevitable? No. Possible? Yes.

At the time of the Russian Revolution, the majority did not believe the Tsar and his three century dynasty could be overthrown. But it happened. Likewise, it could happen hear again. Revolts and civil wars are never planned, they often just happen when the house of cards fall.

Often the offending group thinks they have some segment of the government behind them. For example, a freeper or caver thinks if there was a civil war, the US Military would be on their side...which is devoid of reality and facts. For example, loyalists in Russia, France, America, etc. revolutions/civil wars. assumed the military was on their side and would stamp out the "agitators"...they weren't.

[GotHillsback]

34. No winners.

Yes it happened, but millions were slaughtered by the Bolsheviks who turned out to be far more ruthless and evil then the Tsar. If our country is lead down that path, everyone loses. The economy of the entire world would collapse.

A civil war now, would not be North against South. It would be neighbor vs neighbor and as I mentioned before they are the party of killers not us. My neighbor the cop is a die hard conservative and well armed, we don't believe in guns.

Maybe it could happen, but we better hope it don't.

[Xolodno]

37. Yeap. Just look at Syria, that is a posible US civil war...

The irony of the Russia Revolution, Alexander the 2nd was instituting reforms, albeit slowly. He was assassinated by those who didn't think the reforms happened fast enough. As a result the next two Tsar's were far worse than him and may have contributed to the Bolshevik revolution which was even worse than they would have imagined, but also the "pogroms", expulsion of the Jewish people that helped fuel the creation of modern day Israel and given the corruption due to the lip service of "autocracy", World War One would have ended a lot sooner with a modernized Russian army (which was vetoed so a noble could reap extra cash for himself). Even could have prevented World War II...well maybe, Russia, if it stayed in the war and the Tsar survived, would have Istanbul-Constantinople under its governance.

But yeah, no winners. My wife's great grandfather was shot in front of his whole family...then they were told to run, or they would be next. Didn't even have the opportunity for a proper burial. On my side, relative went back to the home country to see if any one in the family was left after a couple of generations. He found out our last name only exists here in the USA.

[KingCharlemagne]

54. So bring back the Tsar, eh? - nt

[Blue_true]

78. If a Civil War happens, your neighbor the cop becomes a simple soldier.

No longer protected by respect for the rule of law. This is the argument that I use as to why good cops should defy their Unions and get bad cops off the Force. Once the rule of law is gone, no cop is safe.

[Blue_true]

77. I think if there is a Civil War, the Military will split into warring factions.

Each faction backing it's side. Enlisted people will be killing officers of their unit and vice versa. Dissertions and confiscation of military hardware will be rampant. New, very lethal weapons will be developed by the most technologically advanced side.

The only reason why we won't see a modern Civil War is that in every case where it happened recently, it was bad for business, corporations won't like it and will work to absolutely prevent it.

[Xolodno]

82. Have to disagree a bit....

True, civil wars and revolts are bad for business. However, the wealthy elites will have long since converted their hard cash into other assets and flee the country. Intellectuals and others who see the writing on the wall, even though they don't have much in wealth, will also bail. Some will stay as they think they can come to power supporting the "winning" side, they might be right, but if they are wrong, their dead.

And yes, more than likely the military would split into factions. People once fighting together an saving each other, turn against each other.

Plus, the weapons we use on others will be turned inward with devastating results, other nations may even raid the US to secure and capture our nukes or destroy them outright. Plus the economic shock sent around the world will rival that of the fall of the Roman Empire. Governments supported by the US could easily collapse and regional powers will move in to fill the void.

It would be nasty indeed. Yet low dimensional thinkers who can't see past the end of their own nose believe it will be out an over in no time with little impact in the world, and their conservative utopia begins. But in reality, millions dead and massive destruction.

[Blue_true]

83. Agree with you except for big business.

Once business sees war is a real possibility, I think they will work to prevent it, even if that means they finally sacrifice. Heck, I don't even see defense companies pushing for civil war because who would have the available cash to buy their weapons in a fractured country where blood is being spilled all over.

[ecstatic]

35. We can have a peaceful secession. But we've reached the end of the road as far as

working together with the far right. What they're doing is downright deplorable. There's no more common ground to work with.

[RKP5637]

38. We never thought someone like Trump could be president! I just don't know. There are a lot of

variables in play all at the same time. A question is, how deep does the coup go? One fear I have is Trump would likely enjoy reigning over some type of civil war.

[Calista241]

40. People may like Trump, but I would bet very few would take up arms for him

An infinitesimally small number of people would be willing to be incarcerated long term for either party. That guy who shot up the baseball field is the exception.

Remember, Repubs HATED Obama. Nearly everyone I know speculated that they would at least try to assassinate Him. And he made it through 8 years, and is still kicking. Nobody even made a serious attempt to kill him that we are aware of.

[ileus]

41. There would be no need for a "civil war" just an uncoupling of sorts.

We could still be trade partners and good neighbors. IMHO both sides have a desire not to be "ruled" by the other so lets just agree to disagree on who governs best and call it quits.

People in both areas could move where they're most comfortable, hell there could even be exchanges set up where folks from each area agree to "trade" property of like value and just swap.


There really is no need to "war"... We're Americans we know better.

[Blue_true]

79. I think that we need four countries, each with water access.

The right is starting to hate and loath the far right as much as some on the left hates the far, far left. The group that will get screwed and have to chose are centrists. There can be a Left Country, a Far Far Left Country, a Right Country and a Far Right Country. Each country will get 12 states that are geographically contiguous, with a lottery assigning one of the two remaining states to two of the countries. Territories can be assigned to each country, with that country chosing whether or not to instantly make them full states.

[Blue_true]

80. I would want a clean break.

With only a right to immediately migrate as a citizen for minor kids that get dragged to a country that they loath upon them becoming adults.

[melman]

46. Of course not

Raw Story is such a garbage site. I don't know how anyone can stand reading it.

[Hoyt]

60. Only if ignorant white wingers keep arming up and hating.

[mvd]

61. I hope not. I do not think inevitable

This country went lower than I ever thought it would go when Trump got in. Trump is an authoritarian idiot, and his followers hate us. And I hate all Trump stands for. But I still think Trump will be a footnote in history. His followers will dwindle. So I think no civil war, and I am glad of that.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

62. There aren't enough Americans willing to

kill or die for their beliefs to have a civil war.

[roamer65]

65. There would be a military coup d'etat, followed by severe repression.

Most Americans are pushovers (esp RWNJ's) and would swallow military rule...hook, line and sinker.

[The_jackalope]

67. Essentially yes.

It may not be a civil war fought with armies, but IMO large-scale, organized, class/race violence and pogroms are inevitable at this point.

"Muslim or Christian?"
"Liberal or conservative?"
"Do you support Donald Trump or not?"

Wrong answer? Bang!

Given the social situation in the USA,this sort of race and class warfare is inevitable. Can't say when, but it's coming. The wind that has been sowed over the last 45 years will be reaped as the whirlwind, probably some time in the next decade or so.

[Gothmog]

69. The deplorable idiots on DI are predicting a civil war

These idiots are idiots

[Doug the Dem]

71. Yes, There Is A Civil War Looming, And The Alt-Right Is Pushing It

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/yes-there-is-a-civil-war-looming-and-the-alt-right_us_5958aa05e4b0326c0a8d114e?section=us_politics

By Jerry Nelson

Donald Trump’s supporters are shaking like little schoolgirls afraid of the monster in the closet. Even while they point to the Middle East, they ignore the genuine threat of terrorism in America — the alt-right.

Now, Trump backers have a new dog whistle to follow which soothes their jangled nerves even as they go orgasmic for Trump, pick up their AR-15s and yell, ‘hold my beer.’

Is another Civil War brewing? Marshall Connolly writing for Catholic Online points out, “There are few differences. The rhetoric is almost seditious. Politicians give speeches telling persons to be ‘disruptors.’

The word ‘revolution’ is being tossed about as a political term and it’s difficult to avoid the idea that the alt-right is being called to arms.

[Blue_true]

73. A Civil War is the wrong choice.

I have come to despise some people on the far, far left. If we have a Civil War, we likely will end up all being ruled by Russia or China. Russia got involved in our election because they saw that opportunity.

I much rather split into four countries and let adult people move to their preferred country with moving assistance. One country would be for center-left and left people, at crunch time they vote the same. The other country will be for the far, far left and anyone that agrees with them, including some on the normal left. The other countries would be for the right and I could care less how they divide it up as long as I am rid of them.

The splitting up works best, each country can inact policies that it wants.

There should be a right to immigrate for minor kids that follow their parents, but would chose another country when they become adults.

[roamer65]

86. If the RWNJ Trump scum end up causing a Chinese invasion...

I won't lift one goddamn finger to help them fight it. Ah, wait...they won't fight it...they are chickenshits.

[XRubicon]

81. No

Fuck no.

[NurseJackie]

85. Probable but not inevitable.