The i before e, except after c rule is a giant lie

[seaglass]

I have been vindicated! Bad rule with too many exceptions. I have had this rule on a post it on my home office bulletin board forever (don't really need it because of spell check but...) and I was just talking to my boss about this a couple weeks ago - my mental block with the word receive.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/28/the-i-before-e-except-after-c-rule-is-a-giant-lie/?utm_term=.93055aa2901d

On to the second part — “except after c.” Cunningham selected all words in his data set with either a "cei” or “cie” spelling. If the rule were as accurate as we'd been lead to believe, you'd expect the “cei” spellings to greatly outnumber the “cie” ones, right?

...

In fact, the opposite is true: “cie” words outnumber “cei” ones by about three to one. The ratio of “ie” to “ei” is exactly the same for the after-c words as it is for all words in general.

[Lithos]

1. If they are going to quote the rule

Then they to quote the whole rule

It's i before e, except after c, except when sounded as "a" in neigh.

L-

[seaglass]

2. Yes, it is mentioned in the article, along with many other exceptions. n/t

[WillowTree]

7. Which doesn't cover words like "protein" or "glacier" or "efficient"...........

[Lithos]

15. There are two things to remember

1) The rule was invented in the mid 1800's to help children remember to spell common words.
2) Most of the words which are shown as exceptions are recent words (ex: protein is a chemical word which entered the mainstream use in the last half of the 20th century).

As such, the rule is useful to learn as a good - back of the hand - rule for common English words. It was never meant to be a catch all you could apply to each and every word. Even so, the rule still catches a good number of words and is better than guessing which is the alternative people are suggesting in their criticism.

L-

[FakeNoose]

8. I learned it slightly differently

I before E except after C, or when sounded like "A" as in "neighbor" or "weigh."

Because it rhymes it's easier to remember.

Since English is such a strange conglomeration of other languages, it helps to know some German and maybe a Latin-based language like Spanish, Italian or French. Our spelling conventions are completely unruly because of all the borrowing of words from other languages.

Since I can read some German, I'll mention than that their language has reliable spelling & pronunciation conventions. For example the "ie" in any German word will always be pronounced as we would say long EEE. While the "ei" in any German word will always be pronounced as we would say long I (eye). There are very few exceptions to this rule, and I find that it helps me in spelling English words as well, to a point.

[Cirque du So-What]

16. To your point about German

I wonder if the 'i before e' rule originated around the time of American involvement in WW1 as a cultural dig against Germany.

[boston bean]

12. the rule is this - i before e, except after c, or, when sounded like 'a' as in neighbor and weigh.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

3. It's a "rule" that I ignored after noticing counter-examples anyway.

As for the words they examined, I would've also considered how often they're used.

That's my segue into this fascinating video about word use frequency in the English language... and amazingly ALL languages!

[hedda_foil]

17. As one language person to another, this is wonderful!

Who is that guy?

[Buckeye_Democrat]

22. His name is Michael Stevens.

I'm a science lover, so his YouTube channel is one of several that I visit periodically.

[Orrex]

4. The rule is clearly meant to apply when "ie" & "ei" are producing an "ee" sound

If you actually pronounce the "i" and then the "e," then obviously "i" comes first.

Let's see Cunningham's assessment as it applies to "cie" combinations that sound like "see." Other than this rightly noted plurals ("delicacies," etc.), I'd guess that the number is rather less impressive.

[Wounded Bear]

10. Except in German...

wherein you pronounce the second letter, not the first.

[Orrex]

11. They probably don't use the English rhyme as a mnemonic, then.

[Doodley]

5. I before E, except after C, only when the sound is E

[MuseRider]

6. LOL

I have that same block over the word receive. Every time I convince myself I am right I type it and get corrected. I think I will die spelling it wrong.

[Wounded Bear]

9. I don't use spellcheck much...

just on some of the larger, more obscure words. Spell checkers get tripped up by grammar all of the time and will often allow the wrong "there" or "too" or something.

Of course I was scoring 90-100% on spelling tests in 4th grade. Has never been a major failing of mine. Also, I have learned to delineate when the rules apply and when the "exceptions" are in play. English has adopted so many words from other languages that it can be confusing.

[seaglass]

14. I use spell check on work emails because I'm judgy when others don't. I am a voracious

reader but as I've gotten older I don't trust myself as much with spelling or word choice. The brain farts seem to happen more frequently.

[fishwax]

13. I think it remains a pretty solid guideline, though obviously there are exceptions

There are exceptions to every spelling "rule." Many (most?) of the exceptions to the "i before e" rule fit the "except after c" category.

I would guess that the largest category of the exceptions to the "except after c" rule involve suffixes, which involve their own spelling rules. The most obvious is that y changes to i for most suffixes, resulting in all sorts of -ies, -ier, and -iest words which, when they follow c (as in fancy, spicy, dicey, etc.) look like exceptions but are really just suffixes.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. I before E, except after C?

That's wierd.

[kentuck]

19. Who are you...Einstein?

[Fozzledick]

20. It's a weird science!

[MineralMan]

21. It's a weird rule...