Black Mississippi student forced to share valedictorian title with white student who had lower GPA

[RandySF]

Jasmine Shepard was the top of her class and had the highest GPA, but her Mississippi high school forced her to “share” the title with students whose GPAs were lower. The school has never done something like this before, but they’ve also never had a black valedictorian before. She and her family think it’s because of her race.

“Prior to 2016, all of Cleveland High School’s valedictorians were white,” a lawsuit against the school says, according to The Washington Post. “As a result of the school official’s unprecedented action of making an African-American student share the valedictorian award with a white student, the defendants discriminated against.”

Shepard was also forced to deliver her speech to students after the white student and would have been forced to walk behind the girl as well if Jasmine hadn’t protested. However, Jasmine doesn’t want to see backlash against the other student, saying that the young woman is “the kindest-hearted, sweetest person.”

The Cleveland School District, through an attorney, is calling the suit “frivolous” claiming the students had identical “grade point averages.”


http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/black-mississippi-student-forced-to-share-valedictorian-title-with-white-student-who-had-lower-gpa/#.WVhaK2X_LJ8.twitter

[JI7]

1. for all the complaints about welfare queens from the racists. they get more angry at seeing black

people do well and succeed at things.

[dalton99a]

11. Yep.

[NurseJackie]

27. Yes. This. Thank you!

[Foamfollower]

29. Tht's why they despised Barack Obama so much.

And still do.

[Blue_true]

32. BOOM! Sometimes the simplest things like a Black man being everything racists says he should be

is enough to enrage the racists.

[lunasun]

59. + a zillion

[pnwmom]

82. But we really don't know that's true. All we know is that there is a mother who claims

to know every single grade ANOTHER girl has had since middle school. Seriously? I went to a small school and my kids went to small schools, and this doesn't pass the smell test. Grades aren't public.

And I asked my kids never to talk about their grades, and this just reinforces that policy for me. I know that kids can be curious about each other's grades, but the idea that this mom was keeping track of every grade another girl ever got all through high school is creepy to me.

[AgadorSparticus]

89. +1,000!!! Exactly!!!

[pnwmom]

2. I went into the FB page the mother set up and I'm not so sure.

I couldn't see evidence for her claims -- but I could see that she appears to be fighting the school district on many different fronts.
It's too bad that she's making her daughter believe that being a co-Valedictorian isn't as great an honor as being a Valedictorian.

In what looks to me like possibly obsessive behavior (she supposedly has been watching every single grade the other girl has gotten since middle school), the mom is taking all the fun and excitement away from what should have been a thrilling event.


"An attorney for the Cleveland School District called the lawsuit 'frivolous' and said the students 'had identical grade point averages.'

“'As such, under school board policy, they were both named valedictorian of their graduating class,' Jamie Jacks wrote in an email. 'The district’s policy is racially neutral and fair to students.”

Sherry Shepherd, Jasmine Shepherd’s mother, said it was easy to calculate the students’ grade-point averages because the community is so small.

“'These children have been attending school with each other since middle school,' she said. 'We know the schedule, we know what they take, and we have a good idea where the discrepancy lies.'”

[X_Digger]

3. I wonder if the mother knows about weighted / AP classes, too.

An 'A' in earth science isn't worth as much as n 'A' in AP Chemistry, e.g.

[pnwmom]

4. That thought occurred to me, too. And how humiliating this must be to her daughter. nt

[xmas74]

6. Every single class my child takes is weighted.

We've had a discussion with the school district over class ranking because of it. She has a 3.95 gpa with all weighted classes and dual credit but the weighted doesn't seem to be taken into account to count actual class. I've said to the district repeatedly that a student with that gpa,who currently qualifies magna cum laude and, with another push could be summa, should rank higher than the top fifty percent in her class.

It's strange how some districts decide.

[BadgerKid]

20. That's why abolishing GPA is discussed

In some districts, part of the argument being that college entrance committees should already be looking at the difficulty of students' courses.

[xmas74]

131. Absolutely.

My daughter's gpa came from hard work and challenging classes. It's not fair that her class rank is decreased because others refuse to take weighted courses and will only take the bare minimum,knowing a number of scholarships go by class rank with no consideration for the classes taken to obtain that gpa.

[Blue_true]

38. If you have a kid who is running a 3.95 GPA, why complain.

I did not hit that GPA until my senior year of high school. You are better off searching your brain for you college freshman and sophomore things you learned about how to be an effective student. Your child will be heading off to college soon, where for the first time, that child will make all decisions down to when to do the wash. I suggest that you focus on those things, the kid seems to be taking care of business in high school.

[xmas74]

130. Her problem is that there are some

Substantial scholarships that are offered only by class rank and not gpa. They do not take into account how she has honors chemistry with a 3.95 while another classmate has a 3.952 with no weighted classes whatsoever. The weighted counts in gpa on transcripts but not in assigning class rank.
Besides, she plans to live at home for college. We live in a college town. The local university offers her major and minor and it's where she wants to go. She wants to live at home, at least for now, to save money and take out as few student loans as possible.

[Blue_true]

142. Lucky kid. Why don't you have her look for scholarships that target her major.

There are very few engineering scholarships because big business has found it easier to do H1B visas if they need to instead of supporting a US born kid through school. But there are some medical scholarships available, I think, but she would have to agree to serve in underserved communities for a set number of years after finishing medical or nursing school.

Good luck to your daughter. Some people claims kids are not as good as the old days. Every generation says that and time proves them wrong. I think that we are in fine hands with the kids today when they are taken in the composite.

[xmas74]

145. Her planned major is public relations,

Emphasis in political media. Double minor in French and political science.

She has an internship waiting for her on a congressional campaign next year and I know someone who works for a PR firm that works campaigns.

She sees living at home as a good way to save money for the future. If she can eventually get an internship in D.C. she'll need money to live on for a few months.

[Blue_true]

146. Seems like she has a plan. nt

[xmas74]

149. Yep.

And we've worked together on making not only the right grades and earning awards but also on networking and connections.

I'm a single mom,her father is deceased. I don't make all that much. What I realized I could do was join clubs in the community-and lots of them. It has allowed me to network and discover things that will benefit her in the long run.

Her future is a joint effort.

[Blue_true]

151. Good job of parenting. I had both of my parents to adulthood and beyond.

I admire what you have done alone for your daughter.

[xmas74]

154. I'll be happy when

She achieves all of her dreams.

[sarah FAILIN]

8. Back in the day, it wasn't like that so they may not "get" it.

I took all the really hard maths and chemistries. A girl that took consumer math and 9th grade math more than once beat me. Backwards mess back then.
My son took college classes as his courses. They are supposedly forbidden from counting them as advanced classes here because the kids in regular high school didn't have the option to take them. My opinion was that it was free. They could have if they wanted to. My kid worked his tail off while they goofed off.

[exboyfil]

10. My daughters' high school did not weigh classes

The GPA was the same regardless. Also even a four or five credit hour college class was treated the same as a high school class with no additional weighting. My daughter had two years of engineering math, 2 Calculus based Physics classes, four engineering courses from the flagship university, and Chemistry I.. My other daughter had Chem I, Ii, and Organic; a Junior level Biology class. All of these courses were treated as a single semester class just like the lowest level classes.

GPA can become important in Iowa because some scholarships have a GPA component to them (these are scholarships with specific criteria - if the criteria is met, then you get the scholarship). I suspect the method of weighing GPA also has some impact of competitive evaluation scholarships, but you would hope the reviewers would spend a little extra time with the transcripts from the different schools.

My daughter's high school also stopped ranking students. Which could become a problem since class rank enters into the admission decision at our public universities. Since our universities are relatively easy to gain entrance, it is not a big problem in our state.

It may be how I did the education of my daughters, but I find that too much emphasis goes on at the high school level. I understand for prestigious colleges and scholarships this can become necessary (taking the five AP classes a semester), but I don't think it is healthy. I was very careful in guiding my daughters' education. They actually had very few academic classes at the high school. I was looking at the bigger prize - how fast can they achieve their credential. My oldest daughter got her B.S. in Mechanical Engineering two years after high school graduation (this is from our flagship engineering university which is ranked 21st among public universities in the nation). My youngest is on track for getting her B.S. in Nursing 15 months after high school graduation (this is from a private hospital affiliated Nursing school whose last NCLEX exam score results were slightly better than the University of Iowa and they graduated almost as many nurses (80%).

[bobbieinok]

102. Is engineering university IaState?

My son works there, and my ex was a professor there.

[exboyfil]

112. Yes

It is a very good school. I have actually taken 27 credit hours of M.S. Mechanical Engineering classes there. For a time they were offering Freshman Analysis, Statics, Dynamics, and Mechanics of Materials online (still offer Engineering Statistics). My daughter took all of them besides Dynamics while still in high school (it helps to have a dad who can tutor ME classes).

[bobbieinok]

137. And a beautiful campus!

Was last in Ames in 2001. The town had changed a lot since I moved back
to OK in 1989. Assume there's been lots more change.

Always thought it was interesting that I moved to IA and my son was born
and grew up there, since my dad's family moved there in 1849 from VA.

[bluecollar2]

113. really?....

An AP in French or English literature probably aren't either I suppose....

[left-of-center2012]

28. "she appears to be fighting the school district on many different fronts"

Hmm -
food for thought.

[politicat]

143. As a kid who had to fight a school district on several fronts, I have sympathy.

I had one B, ever. In 6th grade science, because my teacher hated the way I took notes. (I mind-mapped; she wanted TQ2R3R, which is about the most useless note-taking system ever, and is only good if you want students who can regurgitate a textbook and to minimize teacher grading work.)

My first year of high school, I was at a school that offered weighted classes. I took all that were available to me -- english, math, language and social studies, so I pulled a 4.5 coming out of that school year, when my parents moved me to a district that didn't offer weighted GPA.

I continued with two maths, two sciences, one english, one history and an elective, which was one math and one science more than my grade peers were taking, and one full class more than my grade-peers were taking. (I was a non-Mormon in a 99% Mormon community; they all took an hour of "release time" for religious education, and that grade was not supposed to count for their GPA, but amazingly, it did if they were on a team sport and had to have a 2.0 to participate... or for GPA padding in other areas. And funny how often that one WAS weighted.) I was also continuing my language at the local CC, because my school didn't offer it.

I also had a conspiracy-theorist RWNJ babysitting my supposedly AP AmHis class. I learned more about Bo Gritz, the New World Order, the Bircher plan to turn America into a theocracy and gold-bugging than any 14 year old should know, but nothing actually useful for the AP test. (Also, that I, as a gentile, would eventually happily sell myself into his sexual slavery for a can of beans when his ubermensch took over. Not only a CT RWNJ, but a creep, too!) So I had to fight the school board over that, as well as weighting. Oh, and the regular prayer in schools? Yeah, that took several school board meetings and ACLU/FFRF consultation, too.

What I'm saying is that a teacher, school or school board can get away with a lot of malfeasance for a long time if everyone in the district chooses to ignore it. It becomes a missing stair that everyone just learns to step over, until someone with a new perspective comes in and starts pointing out that there's a missing stair! At which point, the person doing the pointing out is the problem, because everyone else is accustomed to it.

Oh... and on my GPA/valedictorian status? Yep, it was mine, by any objective weighted or unweighted standards -- I set the curve in every class (because I was an approval-seeking, grade-grubbing little praise-monkey). But girls were never valedictorians in that school. Ever. No matter what. By then, I was just sick of those people anyway.

My guess is that Mom is seeing a real problem.

[brush]

45. This can be solved by simply releasing the GPAs. It's raises doubt that that hasn't been done.

The district was still fighting discrimination lawsuits last year so IMO there's some skullduggery afoot.

[SaschaHM]

53. And yet, DU sides w/ the authority and starts to drag the mother/student.

"It's such an honor to share your prize that was taken from you because your were a black woman."

[pnwmom]

71. No, I'm siding with sanity. The idea that this mother was scrutinizing every grade this other girl

had since middle school stretches belief. If my child told me another child was constantly pestering her about grades, or that the mother was, I'd tell her it's none of anyone else's business.

And think about how easy it would have been for either girl to just fudge the truth with this pushy, pushy mom, who wanted to keep track of every grade that ANOTHER student had. This is very odd behavior.

[angstlessk]

77. WOW, a scholarly equal to the Texas cheerleader mom...sans the murder.

but the obsession seems to be there?

[SaschaHM]

80. Your experiences don't fucking matter.

You are not this child. You are not the mother. You don't even go to the school district. Being Valedictorian is an academic achievement and many families strive for it. Many students strive for it. What you think of it doesn't fucking matter.

What does matter is that instead of saying "The mother could be lying or the school could be lying." You have taken up the plight of the school that fought desegregation for 50 years and have started dissing the family involved in this dispute.

What stretches belief is that you defend Louise Mensch and Claude Taylor, yet somehow don't think a school district with a racist past is capable of lying in service of racism.

[pnwmom]

84. People are saying this happens in small schools. In that case my experience is relevant

because I went to a small school and so did my kids. And everyone did NOT know everyone else's grades. Sometimes the information might be shared -- but this woman claims to know every grade another girl has gotten since middle school.

Get real.

[SaschaHM]

85. I went to a small school as well and yes, those of us aiming for the top spot

did know each other's schedules and where we stood. You act like kids don't fucking share grades with each other.

You get real. Seriously, what a bunch of bullshit. You can keep showing your ass for racism from my ignore list. I'm done with you.

[Baconator]

135. When was that?

Was it in the era of AP classes, weighted grades, online courses and college credit?

[SaschaHM]

138. Yup. We had IB (6.0) and AP (5.0) courses that were weighted more.

It actually caused a bit of a scandal one year when a kid from another high school that offered AP courses in 10th grade transferred in for the IB program and became the defacto Valedictorian because no one at our school could take them until 11th grade.

For the most part, I took the same classes w/ the same core set of students from 2nd grade up to 10th grade. The only break was middle school, from 6th-8th, where the core group was split by race due to districting, but we still were on the same academically gifted/honors track in our respective middle school. Had I skipped out on boarding school, I would have taken the same IB courses w/ them from 11th to 12th.

If you went to my high school, your path to Valedictorian started w/ Algebra in the 8th grade before you arrived and ended w/ the toughest IB course set w/ AP Psych in the one slot where you didn't take an IB course.

[xmas74]

139. I will use this as an example of what might not

Be on a schedule.

My child recently completed Girls State. She is now eligible to obtain three hours of college credit if she writes a smallish essay/research paper. (I don't have full details but will receive them in September. ) If she completes this for college credit and receives a "B" from her course she can also petition the school to count it as a full credit in independent studies, which is a weighted course. We just discovered that this is also the case with two additional leadership seminars she attended last summer and two college courses she completed online. She may now petition to have them all added as independent studies classes, all with weighted grades. It won't show up on a class schedule but will show up on her final transcript and the boost will push her into graduating summa.

(For the record: her leadership seminars were not camps that parents enrolled and paid for. All three were nominations through the school with a stringent application process, interviews and one included a speech. They were open to all that met scholastic, volunteer and leadership criteria. The college courses online were open to all students at a greatly reduced rate with recommendation from the guidance counselor. )

Do I think the OP is a case of racism? Probably. What I'm also saying is that just making a claim of gpa by class schedule doesn't always show a true account of the final transcript. I'm learning this firsthand.

[LisaL]

101. As far as I know, schools aren't allowed to release GPAs of their students because of privacy laws.

[brush]

107. Certainly the problem can be solved privately to determine the valedictorian

Why take the word of a school district that was fighting a racial discrimination law suit as recently as last year?

I don't blame the AA student and her family for doubting such a school disctrict.

[brush]

115. So disappointed with so many on DU siding with a school district that as recently...

Last edited Mon Jul 3, 2017, 06:11 PM - Edit history (2)

as last year was fighting a years-old racial discrimination law suit.

Why the hell is the default here of so many that the AA student and her mother are wrong or are too obsessed with another student's grades or don't know about weighted classes, and that they should just accept being co-valedictorian, smile and shut up?

We all know without a doubt, or should know if one is truthful to themselves, that if the roles were reversed the school district would prove very quickly that there was no tie and the white student was the sole valedictorian.

As many threads that have been here on DU on white privilege you'd think knowledgeable progressives would recognize it when it stares them in the face — because that's exactly what that is — the black student and her mother should just take the white school board's word for it without proof and the white student gets the benefit of the doubt.

It's disgusting, especially on this allegedly progressive site.

They're black so the skepticism comes out instead of calls for a school district, recently fighting a years-old discrimination law suit, to prove it was a tie.

No identity politics here I guess .

Again, disgusting.

[xmas74]

132. My issue with it is we really don't know

The classes involved. A few years back I'd have sided with her, no questions. Now that my child is going through it I've realized how there isn't always any sense how class rankings are chosen.

If it is discrimination it needs to be addressed. But if we have students with nearly identical gpas with one taking more weighted classes than the other than it might be a good decision. I just don't know enough about the whole situation to address it all.

[brush]

136. Which is my point, but so many here just automatically assume the black student...

and her mother are wrong and take the side of the school district.

A school district that has a very real recent history of discrimination towards AAs.

WTF?

There should be calls for the district to prove there was a tie instead of inferences that an honor student, of all people, and her mother, don't understand weighted classes, like such a thing is beyond their comprehension.

Subconscious racism is just screaming from that thread as many dump their racially weighted comments and blithely go on their way, totally unaware of how white-entitled they come off as.

And btw, how's that for something weighted being beyond some peoples' comprehension?

[sarah FAILIN]

5. The claim is that the GPA is the same

They didn't list it for the parents to see and that was common at our children's school. I'd like to know what the actual GPA's were. The black family seems to think they know.

In all fairness though, there could have been a rule like our school where they only counted the GPA through the fall semester. If the white girl got a lower grade the last semester, it wouldn't have counted against her at my kids school. I didn't say it was fair.

[pnwmom]

15. The complaining family seems way too obsessed with the other girl's grades, it seems to me.

Supposedly they've been watching all her grades since middle school? That is hard to believe; but if it's true, it's even worse.

[sarah FAILIN]

56. It sounds like they were friends

They probably had the same classes together. Smaller schools are like that.
The black girl said she didn't want people blaming the white girl because she is such a nice person. Makes me think they were friendly.

[pnwmom]

70. I had 35 in my graduating class. We didn't do that.

And my kids also went to small schools, and they didn't do that. Having someone else's parent trying to keep track of every grade of yours is not a necessary feature of small schools. Friends don't have to always -- or ever -- share grades. It's completely optional.

And with a mother as pushy as this one, imagine the pressure her daughter was under. Suppose she got a B in calculus, and the mother is horrified. The mom asks what Susie got. Isn't there some pressure on the daughter now to say that Susie got a B, too -- or even a C? How do we know that when her daughter reported back to her, she was always telling the truth -- she never felt any pressure to fudge the truth? Or that the other girl never told this girl what she wanted to hear? "Oh, you only got a B? Don't worry, I did, too!"

There are so many ways this woman's efforts could have gone wrong. And the worst part is the lesson she was teaching her daughter. It's not the grade. It's what you're learning. And sometimes it's better to fail at a hard thing on the way to learning more. This is why some of the top schools don't look strictly at GPA. They'd rather have someone with a 3.7 and a science project in the garage and a summer in a local lab than another kid with nothing to show but a 4.0 in easy subjects.

[Blue_true]

40. My high school counted up until the second to last semester to determine honors.

My experience from college says to me that parents that are focused totally on grades and honors for a high performing student are missing the point. There should be heavy focus on time management and planning. I saw a lot of kids fail at college because they had never been from under mom and dad's watch and had no idea of how to manage time and organize their course loads, in addition to having to manage adult decisions like living arrangements, eating arrangements, dealing with distractions, ect.

[brush]

46. Ok, but what does that have to do with the case of who is valedictorian?

[Blue_true]

57. The kid did well in high school. That only means so much.

In terms of her life success, how she navigate college means more than any high school honor.

I personally went from a 3.98 GPA in my senior year of high school and being in the top 10% on the SAT the year before to almost failing my college freshman Chemistry class. I overloaded myself with difficult classes my first semester of college and although I worked my ass off, I got a D in that Chemistry class, passing, but certainly nothing to be proud of. There is nothing more humbling than having a graduate assistant tell me that the Professor wanted to see me after class as I sat waiting for the first class of second semester Chemistry. There was nothing more humiliating than going to that Professor's office and being told that I should drop his class because I was sure to fail. I refused to drop the class and ended up earning a B+ that semester, because when I went home between the semesters, I studied what had happen. I went on to take the third semester of that Professors class, a very difficult class that few incoming freshmen stayed around for and got a B, I missed A's because the Professor was very old fashioned and forced students to calculate numerical answers to the fourth decimal point and only use a slide rule or do the calculation longhand. I didn't know how to use a slide rule.

Sorry about the long assed reply, the point that I am trying to make is that even very good students in high school can come up short in college if they have not been forwarded about the subtle workings of college. I was the first person in my family to go to college, I had no one to forearm me. Parents with high performing high school students are most likely good parents, most went to college and understand aspects of life there that can be useful for their children, my argument is long term it is better to focus on college rather than fight high school slights.

[brush]

62. Ok, but the black student feels she was cheated out of being sole valedictorian

That's not a small matter. I would be pissed too.

Some don't seem to understand that AAs are often confronted with these slights and have no way to address their grievances.

She and her mother are doing just that and the school doesn't seem to want to solved the problem by releasing the GPAs.

If it's a tie, they should prove it.

That shouldn't be hard to do.

[Blue_true]

65. You view on this clearly isn't the same as mine.

The girl likely will be heading off to college in about a month and a half. That is where her real test as a newly minted adult stands. I would have done backflips to be co-Valedictorian at my high school, but unfortunately other kids either worked harder or had better guidance. Having succeeded and seen what the real problems with a career, where I finished in high school as a top student now looks like a tiny, minor item, non-existent.

[brush]

69. Why doesn't the school prove it was a tie? That's easy to do.

So what if being sole valedictorian doesn't matter to you.

It matters to the student and her family, you know, the people it's happening to.

You're not the one who feels cheated by a school district that was still fighting racial discrimination lawsuits as late as 2016.

I'd be suspicious too.

They should prove it was a tie.

That's not rocket science.

[pnwmom]

87. But the idea that this mother has been keeping track of another girl's EVERY grade since middle

school is so hard to swallow. And if you do swallow it, you have to believe that neither girl ever fudged a grade in 4 years, either to please the mother ("But Susie got a B in physics, too&quot or to spare a friend's feelings ("Don't worry -- I got a B, too).

I asked my kids never to share their grades with their friends and this convinces me more than ever that that's a good policy.

[sarah FAILIN]

58. the white girl could have got a B in the last semester

If they don't count the last semester it wouldn't matter but the black family would know their child actually had the higher gpa.

[pnwmom]

72. Or either one of the girls might have fudged the truth at some point along the way

in 4 years of reporting to this pushy mother.

[exboyfil]

7. The school district claims they were tied

The plaintiff's family is not entitled to know the actual grades of the other student so, unless that student shared the grades with the plaintiff's family, they cannot be sure of what the other girl's GPA was.

I think it would be better to hold off on the headlines which state facts not yet demonstrated. GPAs can get very tricky if they weigh AP and Honors courses differently. We need to wait for discovery to understand what actually did happen.

[Blue_true]

43. My district only took GPA back three decimal points.

A student that had a 3.9994 and a 3.9992 were tied.

As far as the Black family. Their daughter did a first, they should be proud of that fact.

[SaschaHM]

49. Hard to be proud when you feel discriminated against.

[MichMan]

63. Where is the discrimination?

Being named Valedictorian wasn't taken away from her, it just means there is two of them.

[SaschaHM]

66. Is this a serious question?

If a school with a history of white valedictorians forces the first black one to share the title because of her race, that is discrimination. It'd be like making John McCain co-president because he lost to a black man.

[MichMan]

99. Should the other student have it taken away after over a year has passed?

Jasmine Shepard graduated in May 2016. I assume that she has attending college for the last year.

Why is her mother suing after this amount of time to have the title given to her alone? Her being a Valedictorian vs a co Valedictorian will have zero benefits.

Also, assuming, she does win, is it right that the other student be stripped of being co valedictorian over a year after they both graduated from HS?

[SaschaHM]

108. You don't get to co-opt awards because they are given to black people.

If this all shakes out and it is proven that the school discriminated against Jasmine, then yes, she deserves to have her "title" stripped.

[pnwmom]

117. There is no evidence that this happened -- just the mother's suspicions based on other

issues with the district.

[pnwmom]

116. "only"? That's kind of ridiculous when most non-math grades are so subjective. n/t

[xmas74]

140. My old school did the same.

Out of three hundred students we had a four way tie for top ten. Guess how that ended. Not a single one of us were counted as top ten. If they had gone past three I would have ranked eighth in my class.

For those who say it's just a number, it's not. Top ten opens up a world of scholarships that aren't open to number twelve. Top two opens even more.

[SaschaHM]

9. I get where the mom is coming from.

I was aiming for Valedictorian since before I even entered my high school. (Came close, but left for a much more rigorous boarding school 2 years in.) As such, I picked classes and a schedule that would afford me the highest gpa if I scored above a 93 in each class. The other individuals seeking to be valedictorian did the same to the point where we pretty much had the same exact schedule planned out for 4 years.

You may not have the exact grade, but depending on the High School, certain courses are weighted more towards the GPA. I'm guessing this was the case there as well. If one person takes a course weighted as a 4.0 max and the other took one rated as a 5.0 (AP) or 6.0(IB) max, barring other discrepancies, it's going to be clear who has the highest GPA.

[pnwmom]

16. It still wouldn't be clear because you wouldn't know what all her grades were in every class.

I advised my kids never to share their grades with others; I didn't see how that would be useful in any circumstances.

[USALiberal]

22. Never share grades with others? Seriously? n/t

[pnwmom]

24. Seriously. My oldest had a number of ways of dodging the question,

when it came up, without being offensive. And eventually her friends stopped asking because they knew it was a waste of time.

They knew she was smart, just like this co-Valedictorian's friends certainly knew she was smart. She didn't have to advertise her grades or openly compete with them. What would have been the point?

But I'm sure no one was surprised when she got her PhD.

[NCTraveler]

34. Yes, seriously.

I see no negative to it. It's on par with not sharing your salary with others unless need be.

[USALiberal]

35. My god is this hilarious. n/t

[NCTraveler]

39. Laughter is one of the best things in the world.

[LanternWaste]

44. No doubt, you'll explain what this sentiment is predicated on

"My god is this hilarious..."

No doubt, you'll of course explain what your sentiment is predicated on, other than mere opinions which happen to be different from yours, yes?

[pnwmom]

90. Yes! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it is similar. There is no upside to sharing grades,

except maybe some bragging rights. But then you have to also accept public failures.

[NCTraveler]

114. "But then you have to also accept public failures."

That's when the sharing stops.

[bettyellen]

61. It's never too early to teach your kids to have boundaries and enforce them. It's no one else's

Business to know. Why would anyone think it is?

[xmas74]

133. I was taught never to share that information.

And we were told not to do so by our district because it could lead to arguments in the classroom.

[SaschaHM]

25. You don't need to know all her grades though if her daugher is a straight A student ...

and took courses that weighed more.

[pnwmom]

118. Not all districts weight grades and the mom didn't mention anything about that. It seems that she

would have if it was relevant and supported her point.

[Sgent]

12. Also in MS -- the

without question, smartest person in our class, who got a 3rd at nationals in Academic Decathlon, came in 3rd in HS Jeopardy, never scored less than a 5 on an AP exam, and got a full ride to MIT -- wasn't our valedictorian. He was beaten out by a very sweet, nice girl who took a credit in home ec, only took 2 AP courses, etc. Our HS didn't weight GPA's, and the academic decathlon course counted as a study hall, thus she had more credits.

Valedictorian lost its luster after that.

[Hieronymus]

13. Nooo, cons aren't racist .. WTF?

[Igel]

14. The takeaway really depends on who you believe.

The school or the mother.

One has access to the information, but we suspect it of being racist.

The mother has access to less information--what she thinks she knows she may not have right--but we want to believe her. Since we believe her, that means the school's lying, and why would the school be lying? Because it's racist, meaning we were right not to trust it.

It's called assuming the premise.

Some assume the mother's in the right just because she's a private citizen. Others assume she's right because of some salient feature that makes her imminently more trustworthy. I don't.

If the case is simply chucked out of court--which we're very unlikely to hear about, because correcting an outrage-producing story is strictly counterproductive to anything but the truth--it means the mother filed a frivolous suit and the judge agreed. I mean, seriously: What's the mother going to do, present her daughter's report cards and all of the other students'? No, she's probably relying on her daughter's report.

The real risk is that the judge will decide on the basis of an interpretation nobody thought reasonable for decades and done nowhere else in the state, exactly how the school should calculate GPA. If they computed GPA the same way for the 2015 school year as for 2016, he should just let it be. Consistency is more important than getting the right result.

I have to wonder to what extent FERPA protects the kids' records and hobbles the defense.

[pnwmom]

17. This mother claims to know every grade the other girl has ever received in high school.

Grades aren't public, so I'm very skeptical.

[SaschaHM]

26. She doesn't claim to know that. She claims to know the schedule.

Each student has a cap on what their GPA can be that is determined by their schedule. If both girls were straight A students, but one took courses that weighed more, the one with the heavier courses is going to have a higher gpa as she has the higher cap.

If her daughter is a straight A student and had a heavier course load than the other girl resulting in a higher gpa cap, then you don't need the other student's grades.

[exboyfil]

54. If that is the case, then it should have been in the filing

and the news story? You are right that a 4.0 by her daughter with evidence of taking at least one more higher weighted class than the other student would be a slam dunk.

My biggest complaint with any story about a legal filing is presenting one side's filing as a factual statement. That is the headline in this case. Also the WaPo was sloppy in its reporting in my opinion. They could have extracted public facts such as the method of calculating GPA and further explored the mother's claim of knowledge. Also the co-val. is public record, and they could have contacted her and asked for a copy of her transcript (offer to pay for it for example). Of course a transcript is a very private thing - even our former president refused to release his publicly.

Discovery can get interesting because the co-val may refuse to release her transcript. Can FERPA be overridden in a lawsuit? The co-val is not a party to the suit, and she has rights in this matter.

[pnwmom]

120. Not all schools use weighting in determining GPA, and the mom didn't mention that. nt

[malaise]

18. IF the young woman was the kindest...she would have told the

racist administrators no.

[Blue_true]

47. Top of the Class is a major honor, regardless of whether it is shared. nt

[exboyfil]

55. How would she know?

If she was told she was co-valedictorian. Why would she think otherwise. Unless you are claiming she is part of a conspiracy?

[pnwmom]

121. Why should she have if their GPA's were the same? As the district says. n/t

[Lee-Lee]

19. I'm sceptical that she knows the other girls grades enough to fully calculate the GPA

Privacy laws would prohibit her being given that information. She claims she has been "following her grades" but once again- how?

And if you have been following the grades of a student who isn't you child so closely you think you can compute the GPA exactly, that's some disturbingly obsessive behavior.

[pnwmom]

119. She'd have been pestering her daughter to pester her friend about her grades

each and every term.

What a great mom.

[Not Ruth]

21. Deja vu

NAACP has won before

http://abc7ny.com/archive/8192681/

[USALiberal]

23. Valedictorian is just another silly "contest" that is way overrated. n/t

[Foamfollower]

30. Complete and utter falsehood.

Valedictorian can be the determining factor in college admissions, so it most definitely is NOT "just another silly "contest" that is way overrated".

Get your facts straight.

[USALiberal]

33. There is a LOT more that goes into it. Read more. n/t

[Foamfollower]

42. There are MANY more advantages to being valedictorian than college admissions

and yes, it CAN be the determining factor to get in. I've seen the case where it made the difference in an application to an Ivy League school. Two people, nearly identical academic records with identical class schedules and extra-curricular activities. The difference was one grade in one class, making one the valedictorian and the other not. The Valedictorian was accepted to Princeton and the other student was not.

It can line up multiple scholarships not open to non-valedictorians, not to mention other academic opportunities that a non-valedictorian will never have.

Perhaps you need to read more.

[MineralMan]

83. Such advantages are short-lived, transitory things.

After high school, I got accepted to several outstanding schools, including Cal Tech. Part of that was due to being co-valedictorian, perhaps, but it didn't matter. My parents couldn't afford any of those outstanding schools, even with scholarships available at that time. Instead, I attended a state college (now a university) that had an excellent reputation as an engineering school.

Bottom line is that anyone who excelled in high school and became valedictorian of his or her class will probably excel in college as well. If they maintain the same dedication and effort, they'll also excel after graduation at whatever job they end up taking. In the end, it won't be the college or university they attended that will matter most. It will be their drive to excel that matters, as always.

Not every valedictorian goes on to be a success, of course. Not all become highly-paid executives or political office-holders. Some even become spectacular failures. However, if you actually looked at a long list of people who were their class's valedictorian, you'll find a long list of people who accomplished their goals in life and who are happy and successful. It's their nature.

It's not being a valedictorian that means success. It is what went into becoming a valedictorian. Talent, intelligence and hard work get rewarded on their own merits. The same things that drive high school students to excel tend to drive the same people throughout their lives. That's what makes the difference, not a title as a high school valedictorian.

[Foamfollower]

105. BALONEY!

Any advantage in the academics world can translate into REAL WORLD advantages after college. The networking opportunities at Princeton are incredible and can translate into a life time of additional advantages in hiring and deal making, something your state college could never afford.

Perhaps you're too old to understand the cutthroat world for young people entering college today. The difference between a Princeton education compared to a State University can easily translate into entrance to a major law school with bonus advantages of associate attorney status in an elite world class law firm after obtaining that Princeton education compared to two or three years of unemployment or partial employment before getting that lucky break of an entry level position in a company exercising your chosen field.

The differences can be VAST in this competitive modern world we live in.

[pnwmom]

122. But Princeton doesn't accept people based on GPA alone. They OFTEN accept people

with a slightly lower GPA who also offer other things -- an Intel scholarship, a talent in sports or music, a special internship.

And major law schools try to have a diversity of students, and one way they do that is by accepting students from a broad assortment of colleges. Stanford law school would rather have a top graduate of State than a medium-ranked graduate of Princeton.

[xmas74]

134. Silly contest that can get the student

A full ride to some colleges and universities.

[pnwmom]

153. No college would NOT give an award to one of two valedictorians that would be awarded

to a single valedictorian.

[xmas74]

155. Exactly.

Valedictorian is what it is. I know of a state school that offers a full ride for a valedictorian. In this case both girls would qualify since they share the title.
The title itself matters. That title opens doors, no matter where it's from or if it's shared.

[DK504]

31. Valedictorian title isn't a fucking peewee T-ball game.

The whole damn team doesn't get a fucking ribbon. It is and always has been a solitary acheivement. God I hate this state. I can't pack fast enough.

I hope this lawsuit tears this pack of rabid disgraceful piles of sewage to shreds.

[MineralMan]

36. Way back in 1963, at my high school, which had a senior

class of 104 students, I was tied with a friend of mine for valedictorian. We both had 4.0 GPAs, and there was no weighting back then. We both participated in a number of extracurricular activities, student government, etc. As graduation day approached, the school was trying to decide who would be valedictorian. I didn't care, and neither did the girl in my class who was tied with me. We were good friends, besides. Finally, the school admins gave up and decided on co-valedictorians. But the speech. What to do? My friend and I suggested that we both give the speech. We got together and wrote something, which we would give as a dialog, standing at the mic together.

So, that's what we did. The 15 minutes went by in a flash, and the speech we wrote had lots of laugh lines in it, so the audience wasn't bored with yet another inspirational speech by some kid who had little idea about life. We wrote it as a dialog between us about our local school days and the uncertainty of what came next. The audience laughed and applauded and we sat back down in our gowns.

Valedictory speeches aren't all that important, really. Being valedictorian isn't all that important, really, either. I do not remember that ever coming up after that graduation day. It didn't matter. Neither did who was the valedictorian or were the valedictorians. None of that mattered to anyone, including my friend and I. We played it for laughs.

My friend ended up being a neurosurgeon. I ended up being a freelance writer and flibbertigibbet. We both ended up happy with our lives.

[SaschaHM]

41. It's hard to laugh something off when you feel you are being denied because you are a black woman.

I don't know who is right in this scenario, the parents or the school that fought desegregation for years.

I'm glad things worked out for you and your friend, but I don't see how this relates to this young woman's claim that she was discriminated against.

This isn't a "let's give a joint speech and laugh" moment because racial discrimination in any form needs to be fought against.

[MineralMan]

48. Being valedictorian or co-valedictorian is a great honor.

I don't know whether the two people in the story were truly tied or not. It sounds like that's disputed. My point is that, in the case of a tie, having co-valedictorians is the most common solution.

It sound like both students earned that distinction. That was my only point. If there is a dispute that can't be resolved, solve it by honoring both students equally.

How the two co-valedictorians deal with that shared honor is not the issue. My friend and I found an answer that worked for us. I'm not saying that's how it should be done, but naming co-valedictorians is how such ties are generally handled. Both deserve recognition. It should be a time to celebrate their achievements, not a time to argue about those achievements.

That's my opinion. In the end, it's a passing sort of honor anyhow, and one that has little relevance in life. It should be enjoyed by both students, who both apparently excelled. Sometimes, there is a tie.

[mythology]

51. A claim for which they have presented exactly zero evidence.

I need to see something other than an unsupported allegation.

[SaschaHM]

52. Well, that's fine for you.

But I don't dismiss claims of racism out of hand, period, especially when the school at the center of it has been fighting desegregation for years.

[pnwmom]

74. Grades aren't public so the mother has no real evidence to rely on. Just her daughter's reports

back to her about what her friend may or may not have gotten. Don't you see all the ways this might have gone wrong over 4 years?

[pnwmom]

73. And you both knew that being a co-valedictorian was just as special -- or not -- as being

a valedictorian.

[MineralMan]

78. I'm sure my parents thought it was an honor.

So did I, I suppose, but by then, I was so ready to leave that small town and go out looking at the world that I didn't think much about it, really. The same was true for my friend, the co-valedictorian. When we were planning our dialog-style shared speech, we decided to focus on the great times we all had had. Just about everyone in that graduating class had been our classmates since kindergarten. There were countless funny stories from those 12 years of school, so we just told some of those.

I knew the names of every classmate of mine, and had some sort of interaction with all of them. We were all graduating from high school. Who got the highest grades didn't really seem that important. So, we didn't do some sort of self-congratulatory thing, but just remembered our school years and told amusing stories about us, our fellow students, our teachers and anything else that struck us.

We especially focused our attention on the very best and favorite teachers in that school system and gave them the credit for all of us succeeding. We also mentioned the bus drivers, janitors and cafeteria ladies by name. I even fessed up to an outrageous prank I had pulled that people from that class remember, even today. That valedictory dialog was a trip through our experience in that small town's school system, and focused only on the good, the funny and the memorable stuff. Then, we sat down and waited our turn in the diploma line. The next day, we started the rest of our lives.

High school is only important while you're attending it. Then, it is overtaken by real life.

[pnwmom]

79. This girl graduated a year ago and her mother is still obsessing. Poor girl. n/t

[MineralMan]

86. Well, yes. I went to that facebook page, and saw

nothing from her daughter there. I'm sure she has moved on in her life and is excelling at whatever college she went to. There, she'll meet some other students who were valedictorians at their high schools or otherwise excelled. The same things that led her to success in high school will probably lead her to succeed in college and in her career. The whole battle may well be an embarrassment for her.

In many ways, I feel sorry for the mother, who feels that she was somehow slighted. It's too bad, because her daughter is clearly a talented, bright, dedicated young woman. It's too bad Mom is stuck in limbo, still trying to change the past for some reason. So, the student, her daughter is out there, still working hard to succeed, and will probably accomplish her goals. I hope her mother eventually recognizes that that success is what is important, not some high school honor.

[pnwmom]

88. Right. It's supposedly her daughter's page, but it's all about the mother.

What does that tell us? Narcissistic parents are all wrapped up in how their children make them look. The mother seems to fall into this category.

[MineralMan]

94. Well, five years from now, nobody's going to give a damn,

one way or the other. If a person's education ended with high school, as it does for many people, it might matter, but I don't know anyone who is a valedictorian in high school who doesn't go on with their education. So, what happens next is far more important, really. Now, if this young woman manages to become valedictorian of her college or university class, given the tougher competition, that will be a true honor. But even that will soon pass and her success will be based on what she does after that.

Academic awards are short-term honors. There's always a next phase in life. My co-valedictorian went on to become a neurosurgeon. I went on to be a successful magazine journalist and something of a ne'er-do-well at the same time. That was my choice, and I'm very pleased with the course of my life, now that I'm almost 72 years old. So is my co-valedictorian. We saw each other again at our class's 50th reunion, for the first time in 50 years, and both of us appear to have achieved the goals we set for ourselves and are content. She was still the charming, bright person I knew all those years ago.

I couldn't ask for a better outcome.

[pnwmom]

98. Right. And even college grades don't matter much, unless you are applying to grad school.

Most employers will just ask where you got your degree.

And after your first job, all most employers care about is where you're working, or last worked -- not where you got your degree.

[NCTraveler]

37. This sounds strange all the way around.

Valedictorian at each phase of my education was chosen by more than just grades.

[panader0]

50. My daughter was set to be valedictorian at her HS graduation. (class of 500)

She had the highest GPA with only one B in four years (which almost
made her cry). Then the girl next in line did some special extra credit
work which gave her a very slight edge. What a crock.

[Honeycombe8]

60. The school says the GPA was identical for both. Which is correct?

The article seems to state that the valedictorian's mother is guessing at the other student's gpa, since the two girls have gone to school together for years, and she sort of knows how the other girl did. That's not very exact.

Maybe they get extra points for extra work or extracurricular activities or being on the debate team or whatever. It may be the case that the school discriminated, but it doesn't look like the facts are established in that article.

[MineralMan]

64. I guess that's what the lawsuit is supposed to determine.

In the end, nobody remembers who last year's high school valedictorian or co-valedictorians were anyhow. There are several of them in every college freshman class. Nobody knows who they are, or cares.

Apparently, both of those students excelled, and I congratulate them. They were both honored at their graduation ceremony and both spoke. No lawsuit will change what happened. There will be a new valedictorian and that school this year, or co-valedictorians if there is a tie. And the next year and years after that.

It's a very fleeting sort of honor.

[stevenleser]

67. I will be interested to see what the facts are once they come out. I am inclined to believe the

parent for now.

[pnwmom]

75. Did you look at the web page the mom set up? It made me disinclined.

And the more I thought about the possibility of this mom following the OTHER girl's every grade for 4 years, the more disinclined I was.

[stevenleser]

76. I hear you. The fact that the school (or district?) lost civil rights rulings swung it the other way

for me.

[SaschaHM]

81. It blows my mind that folks here are quick to say that the mother is lying...

Yet somehow can't fathom the thought that a school district that fought against desegregation for years, could be lying in service of racism.

[pnwmom]

92. I'm not saying she is lying. I'm saying she may be misinformed -- that it would be very unlikely

that she would actually know every grade this other girl in another family has had for 4 years -- because grades aren't public.

And the idea that she has been breathing down another teenager's neck for four years is kind of creepy. As another poster commented, it's the academic version of the Texas cheerleader.

[mountain grammy]

96. As more facts come out, we'll see,

but the history of this school district definitely sways me to the mother. Hard to have trust in the actions of people who have fought so hard against racial equality.

[oberliner]

68. Headline is a lie

Which is typical for Raw Story.

At a minimum, they need to add "lawsuit claims" to the end of it.

The school district says that their GPA is the same. They actually know the GPA's of the two students, whereas the parent of one of the student's does not have access to have that information.

She is basing her lawsuit on her own calculations of the other student's GPA, which is ridiculous.

This lawsuit is definitely frivolous.

[brush]

123. You don't know if it's frivolous. You only know that the school district which fought...

Last edited Tue Jul 4, 2017, 09:12 PM - Edit history (1)

a years-old desegregation law suit as recently as last year says it's frivolous.

Why take the word of a school district with that racist history?

Call for them to prove it's a tie.

That's what the lawsuit is calling for.

Let's see how it plays out instead of siding with a district that has a history of discriminating against black students.

A no-brainer if I every saw one.

[oberliner]

125. True - that part was just my opinion

But I don't think the headline is fair, since it is by no means an established fact that GPAs were not the same.

[pnwmom]

144. I was initially sympathetic to the mother.

Then I saw the website she'd made for the daughter -- which was all about the mother.

And I read her claims to know ALL the grades the other girl had gotten in ALL her classes since middle school -- which sounded obsessive.

The lawsuit will play out. Fine. I bet the district wins.

[brush]

147. You seem to be siding with the district. A district with a history of racial discrimination.

Why?

And why do you think they're entirely on the up-and-up in this situation with a black student with their history? All of a sudden they're going to be fair to black people?

And whatever any facebook page says is irrelevant.

It's up to the district to prove it's a tie.

They have the numbers.

[pnwmom]

148. Because I don't think the mother is credible. If the district was in the wrong, I think

they'd have settled.

The FB page the mother set up is NOT irrelevant. It was all put together by the mother, and showcases the mother. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's what this is about.

And it's too bad that this mother is teaching her daughter that sharing the honor of being valedictorian with another student is humiliating. Instead of rejoicing with her daughter at her graduation, the mother robbed her of the joy she should have had on that special day.

Look at the damages the mother is claiming because her daughter was one of two valedictorians. From the lawsuit:

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/35802786/valedictorian-says-school-changed-gpa-to-allow-white-student-top-honors

“Plaintiff has suffered humiliation, loss of self-esteem, embarrassment, loss of opportunities, mental anguish, emotional distress, pain and suffering, and other damages to be shown at the trial of this matter.

[brush]

150. I just don't get why you're favoring a racist district. Your dislike of the mother...

whom you've never met btw, seems obsessive. Mothers stand up for their kids.

And again, the facebook page won't matter in court.

Just the number will.

[pnwmom]

152. I don't like narcissistic parents, and this mother appears to fall into that category.

She appears to view her daughter as her showcase, as narcissistic parents do. While her daughter has moved on -- this graduation was a year ago -- her mother is still obsessing about whether she was tied for valedictorian in high school. Something that will never matter in the rest of her life.

It would matter to ZERO colleges that she was a co-valedictorian instead of a valedictorian. And it will never matter to any employer or grad school. I am sad that this parent robbed her daughter of what should have been a thrilling achievement -- but that's what narcissists do.

[brush]

156. Why do you care? It would matter to me if I was cheated out of that honor.

Let the court decide. God!

[pnwmom]

157. Why do you care?

You aren't defending narcissistic parents any more than I am defending racists.

Yes, let the court decide. But I do feel sorry for the girl because she wasn't able to enjoy what should have been a thrilling day, because her mother was sending such a negative message.

[brush]

158. I care because I'm AA and don't like to see our accomplishments diminished

Let the district prove it was a tie in court.

The mother doesn't matter to me at all.

[Dr. Strange]

128. Not so much a lie as CLICKBAIT.

That's the name of the game.

[oberliner]

129. Yep

Couldn't agree more.

[Baitball Blogger]

91. This was dirty pool.

Racist dirty pool.

[pnwmom]

93. You think it's likely that this mother actually knows every grade the other girl has gotten

since middle school -- even though grades are not public?

I'm skeptical.

[Baitball Blogger]

95. They have a lawsuit in play, so that might become relevant information that

will have to be disclosed. I also think there is more to their case based on this statement, "and we have a good idea where the discrepancy lies.”

I wouldn't hesitate to question these events. I have been to my daughter's high school Awards event, which I found to be very strange. First of all, it was by invitation only. We received a phone call. The person who called us told us my daughter was going to get an award and to be sure to wear "church clothes." Yes, that is what was said. The event was at the school auditorium so the seating was limited. In other words, this was not open to all the other kids. My daughter got the award for her G.P.A. But at this event, awards from private organizations were also awarded. Cash awards. And it wasn't hard to see that the kids who were getting those cash awards either had parents who were connected to the organizations, or were in some way connected to the inner social network that exists here.

So call me cynical.

[pnwmom]

97. What first made me wonder about this mother was looking at the website the mother set up

for the daughter. I scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and it's all about the mother and her many fights with the school district. Not about the daughter whose name is on the FB page.

I don't buy the idea that this mother is in a position to know every single grade the other girl has ever had since middle school; and if she WAS breathing down her neck like that, it would have been kind of creepy.

(I went to a small school and sent my kids to small schools. Grades are private so even at a small school it would be very unusual to know every grade another kid had for four years.)

[Baitball Blogger]

100. Breaking down walls is a task that is not for everyone.

Either you're dealing with someone who has a high level of situational awareness and is ready to commit to the fight and for their trouble, will be questioned because they are too aware.

The other choice is to walk away a victim.

More than willing to see how this plays out.

[pnwmom]

103. Is that what you call grade-stalking another student since middle school? That really doesn't seem

strange to you?

This makes me that much more sure I was right when I asked my kids never to share their grades. I did it thinking about the possible effects on them and their friendships. I never dreamed that a friend's parents might be obsessing about my kids' grades.

[Baitball Blogger]

104. You assume that grades were not shared as a common exchange in conversation?

No, I don't see a problem here as far as following another kid's grades, as long as it doesn't involve hacking into the school computer. I don't see a problem because grade competition between us and our cousins was quite common.

[pnwmom]

106. Of course I didn't assume that. I knew they were, and I didn't think that was helpful.

When my oldest started middle school I told her that I thought grade- sharing added unnecessary pressure when I was a kid, and she agreed that it would be a good idea not to do it. She had a number of friendly ways to dodge the question when asked, and eventually, she told me, other students just stopped asking. (Once someone asked and, before my daughter could answer, another student replied that my daughter never talked about her grades.) She ended up following that policy all the way through getting her PhD.

[Baitball Blogger]

109. And I think that's great parenting.

Probably good advice to teach kids today not to share too much information on anything regarding personal information, but, it is also to be expected that these details can slip through. For example, I don't think there are school policies against rewarding a child with the high grade in class with some perk that will be noticeable to other students.

[pnwmom]

110. Right -- slips can happen, even if someone is trying to be circumspect.

But this mother claims to know EVERY grade the other girl has gotten since middle school. Imagine you were a parent and you found out someone else's mom was wanting to know about every grade your child ever had. Wouldn't that rub you the wrong way?

[Baitball Blogger]

111. I wouldn't be surprised. We live in a very competitive world.

She filed a lawsuit, and I'm sure the other side will get a chance to cross examine.

[xmas74]

141. Probably but

We don't know the whole story. The mother is measuring maximum gpa by comparing schedules. That might not paint the same picture as transcripts.
Example:my child was nominated for and has attended three separate leadership seminars in the past eighteen months. Two of them automatically qualify for college credit, with a small amount of extra work. She also took a couple of classes online through a state program that allows high school students to obtain college credit for a greatly reduced rate.

Just a week ago I found out from another parent that every one of those seminars and classes can also count for credit on the high school level. They don't necessarily advertise it but it is available by petition. All are accepted as independent study and all are weighted. This will bump her gpa enough to qualify for summa.

(She only needed one credit to graduate a year early. With this she could have graduated in May but that's another story.)

The point is that we don't know if either young lady has something similar on their transcript. It wouldn't show up as part of a class schedule but would later count towards gpa and class ranking.

[ileus]

124. I knew the headline was too good to be true.

When the district rolls out the numbers (that the lawyer has I'm sure) it will be the end of this suit.


...but it does serve as red meat for the willing to believe everything is stacked types.

[Gothmog]

126. Living in the south, I am not surprised by this

[pnwmom]

127. But digging deeper it turns out the mother is providing no evidence for her suspicions

that this girl has a lower GPA than her daughter.

She wants us to believe that she knows every single grade this girl has had since middle school, even though grades aren't public.