Are sleeveless dresses "appropriate attire"? Congress doesn't think so

[demmiblue]

Source: CBS

A young, female reporter recently tried to enter a guarded room known as the Speaker's lobby outside the House chamber, but her outfit was considered inappropriate because her shoulders weren't covered. She was wearing a sleeveless dress.

Forced to improvise, she ripped out pages from her notebook and stuffed them into her dress's shoulder openings to create sleeves, witnesses said. An officer who's tasked with enforcing rules in the Speaker's lobby said her creative concoction still was not acceptable.

The Speaker's lobby, a room adjacent to the front of the House chamber, is a go-to location for reporters wanting to grab lawmakers for brief interviews, and there are allegedly rules about what you can wear inside. Even as denizens of Capitol Hill wipe away sweat from Washington, D.C.'s swamp-like weather outside, men are expected to wear suit jackets and ties in the House chamber and Speaker's lobby. Women, on the other hand, have been told they're not allowed to wear sleeveless blouses or dresses, sneakers or open-toed shoes.

These rules are far from clear cut and there are no visible signs defining them. They are also not enforced on the Senate side of the Capitol.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-sleeveless-dresses-appropriate-attire-congress-doesnt-think-so/

[sinkingfeeling]

1. A woman's bare shoulders could cause all those good, Christain men in the House

to have impure thoughts and they might follow their leader and start grabbing pussy.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. What about knees and ankles?

Damned hussies.














<---- in case it wasn't obvious.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. Pence will need to be locked up like Oliver Reed in The Curse of the Werewolf.

[RKP5637]

37. Good thing they don't wear hats and place them in their laps!

[Submariner]

53. We have a so called FLOTUS

with her crotch and breasts displayed all over the internet for the world to see.

It's time for the US to drop this fake morality.

[Dulcinea]

55. Sleeveless dresses are good enough for FOX women anchors.

They wear cocktail dresses on the air all the time. 'Nuff said.

[LisaM]

80. I know! And the women they have on their sports show are worse!

I think it looks strange to talk about football while wearing a cocktail dress and spiked heels at 10:00 a.m.

[aikoaiko]

2. Ties of Shame for tieless men. LOL

When I was a young adult, I was summoned to state court as a potential juror. I wore a long sleeve button-down shirt, khakis, and shoes, but was made to wear a poorly fitting jacket and ugly short tie of shame.

[Skittles]

3. it's not a professional look

sorry, it just isn't

why is it only women doing this?

[pirateshipdude]

5. I agree, it is not professional. Eom

[LisaM]

8. I agree - just carry a light sweater.

On the other hand, for a state visit:


http://footwearnews.com/2017/fashion/celebrity-style/melania-trump-poland-colorful-dress-purple-pumps-photos-389205/

[hlthe2b]

11. I have to admit to wanting to criticize that outfit... It was a war memorial and next to the wife

of the Polish President, I thought she looked absolutely clownish. The Polish first lady was so elegant in comparison.

Sorry, but she is representing the US and I do still think that there are solemn places that one should take pains to dress appropriately.

[LisaM]

18. Yes, I agree. n/t

[Polly Hennessey]

29. She looks sloppy, dowdy, and unkempt

next to the gorgeous and elegant First Lady of Poland.

[greatauntoftriplets]

42. The Polish first Lady is also wearing Poland's national colors.

While on official overseas visits, Michelle Obama often dressed in a way that honored the country. Melodrama's dress was too casual and too loud to wear to a memorial honoring Poland's war dead.

[Corvo Bianco]

52. Dressing as a woman is so hard (for me at least, nothing about it comes naturally)

So I give every outfit a 100% pass because who gaf life is hard enough.
Even tan suits are OK with me.

[onenote]

59. Michelle Obama wore sleeveless dresses to the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin

and to the Vietnam Memorial in DC

The world didn't collapse.

Talk about a tempest in a teapot. Melania's dress is the least of our worries.

[hlthe2b]

60. I am not concerned about the fact Melania's dress was sleeveless.. never said anything to the kind..

but, it looked like a clown car and was anything but dignified for an official visit to a war memorial...

Scroll down and you'll see a photo of Michelle Obama wearing a very elegant sleeveless solid dark color dress which would have been appropriate at such an event. It isn't the lack of sleeves.

[onenote]

61. This is what Michelle wore to the Vietnam Memorial

Again -- the world didn't collapse because she wore a colorful, one might say "fun", print dress to a war memorial.

[hlthe2b]

62. Compare that to Melania's mess and get back to me... You miss the point.

[onenote]

64. No, I think you are missing the point

Which is what Melania wore, or Michelle wore is of so little importance that it is absurd that anyone cares.

Look, fashion is a matter of individual taste. I think Michelle dressed spectacularly well most of the time. Sometimes, I didn't like what she wore (like the big metal belt she wore to the D-Day memorial). But in the end, what made Michelle Obama special wasn't what she wore, and what one thinks of Melania should hardly be based on something as shallow as what she wears.

[hlthe2b]

65. Guess what. We all have the right to our opinion. Just because you differ, you don't get to censor

the rest of us.

Goodbye. I have no desire to argue with someone who just wants to be argumentative. Don't bother. with a reply.

[onenote]

70. Sorry you don't get to "censor" me by telling me not to respond.

Irony isn't your strong suit. I never remotely suggested you weren't entitled to your own opinion or told you not to post your opinions. It's an opinion board for heavens sake. And everyone here has the right to disagree with any of the opinions posted. You can disagree with me and Hollie can disagree with you. It would be pretty boring here otherwise.

[Ilsa]

85. I have to agree. Her dress was too casual, I don't

care who designed it or how much it cost. She wore violet purple suede pumps, too. It was too colorful and casual for a serious event on a first visit.

[July]

74. Why is sleevelessness an issue?

Sleeveless dresses have been popular since the 1960s. As long as the color/length/pattern suits the setting and the ambient temperature, what is the big deal? And by that I mean, maybe not a garish pattern (see Melania's Poland dress) at a funeral, but what's wrong with it in the summer at a meet-and-greet? I say this even though I don't like that dress or the shoes.

Jackie Kennedy wore sleeveless dresses, IIRC, and all kinds of women since then have done so and looked polished. Michelle Obama rocked the sleeveless dress and looked elegant to boot. At any gala event, you will find the vast majority of women in sleeveless gowns. So, again I ask, why is this an issue?

[Blue_true]

78. I see them in high finance offices all the time. Also see them in engineering.

They can be very stylish.

[Polly Hennessey]

20. Skittles, I agree with you.

Sleeveless and/or low cut tops are just not professional. Those styles can be attractive in the right setting. The one time men really get it is looking professional. To those of you who think women can wear anything they like in any situation - wrong.

[Warpy]

45. I agree, but I've lived in DC in the summer

Not only is is boiling hot, it's swampy as hell.

I do sympathize with any woman who wants to be cool. However, a sleeveless dress is not an obscenity and shouldn't be treated as one. A request to wear a dress with short sleeves should have been issued. She should not have been barred for wearing something that would be perfectly acceptable elsewhere and she should not have had to stuff paper in the armholes of her dress to conceal her shoulders.

If men have problems seeing a woman's arms, let them wear blindfolds,

[McCamy Taylor]

68. BS. This is still about Michelle. Here are some very proper sleeveless dresses.

[Skittles]

69. I did not say they didn't look nice

I just don't think it is professional

where are the sleeveless men at work???

[July]

75. There aren't any.

Which is irrelevant, since men haven't come up with anything sleeveless besides the wife-beater up to now.

But a sleeveless DRESS can be very flattering on a woman. Why shouldn't they wear them?

[Blue_true]

81. What are you talking about.

You are comparing apples to bananas. The dresses that Jackie and Diana have on are damned elegant and very appropriate. I don't know where you live, but where I live the men that wear sleeveless shirts are either workers who work in heat or losers. I don't see sleeveless shirts on men in offices, but I certainly see lots of shortsleeves.

[Skittles]

92. WHY do we not see sleeveless men doing the news?

[AgadorSparticus]

89. Sleeveless shirts on men are called muscle shirts. And they are NEVER appropriate

Even in a casual setting because they are ugly as f*ck!!

Sleeveless on women...different story. Unless you are from the 50's.. oh wait. They had dressy sleeveless dresses back then too. Ok. Unless you are from the 1800's.

[Skittles]

93. again, I didn't say they can't look nice

they do NOT look professional, I don't care WHAT you say

[AgadorSparticus]

97. By "nice" I mean professional. Sorry. Thought that was obvious.

C'mon, Skittles! Work with me. Professional dress codes are changing every decade anyways. Women and sleeveless dresses. And Pretty soon men will be wearing "business shorts" with their jacket and tie. No joke. Don't blame me. I am just the messenger. They have already moved to t shirts and jeans in some industries. It is just a matter of time.

[Skittles]

107. the reason men don't go sleeveless

is they know they wouldn't be taken seriously

"seriously", that is why

women still get the short end at work in many ways - pay, management positions - you can't tell me there is no correlation between the differences of what is expected of men and women at work and the results

[AgadorSparticus]

108. You're right. But i think it depends on the industry and the company too

Different companies have different cultures of expectations. And even then, I swear, it doesnt matter what you wear or how you look. inherent biases are what they are.

[Skittles]

109. FUCK what is expected

I'll give you an example

at a workplace, I was told to do a TDY stint in a hardware group that was exclusively men. They were against it and not happy at all. First day, I found my assigned locker in that area plastered with Playboy centerfolds. Now I know what was EXPECTED of me was to get upset and go crying to HR. So what did I do? I asked my gay neighbors for some full-frontal, preferably hairy nekked pictures of guys, and I plastered THEIR lockers with those pics. You should have heard all the screaming, you would have thought they were on fire. But hey, I earned their admiration, and the harassment STOPPED. And NO I did not run around sleeveless and in pumps, fer crissakes.

[Skittles]

95. what about a dress shirt with no sleeves

can you even imagine seeing men wearing that at work?

[AgadorSparticus]

96. No. And don't give me any visuals. The muscle shirt was more thanenough

[Blue_true]

77. I really think that it is professional.

If a woman has a sleeveless dress that does not show her bra or bra strings that is fine with me. I see plenty of those dresses being worn in business and finance offices, never considered them to be unprofessional. As a matter of fact, most are stylish and very tasteful.

[Skittles]

94. WHY are the men not sleeveless?

[nadine_mn]

104. Because men don't shave their armpits

And no one wants to see tufts of fur sticking out. Once men learn to get rid of offensive body hair...legs, pits, shoulders, back...then maybe they will deserve the right to wear sleeveless tops and short skirts.

[Skittles]

106. heh, good point

since no one wants to see tufts of fur sticking out, why don't they shave their pits?

[Sneederbunk]

4. Americans of all political stripes have become slobs.

Just take a commercial flight for confirmation.

[gratuitous]

7. And some people are dressed as well as they can be

But by all means, let's just call down the slobs who can't afford the nicest clothes and the latest fashions. How DARE they even go out in public, let alone think they're fit for airplane society?

After all, how unprofessional does this look, amirite?

[hlthe2b]

12. Now that is a seeveless dress that still looks classy, professional and becoming.

So, I'm not sure it is the lack of sleeves that determines....

[LisaM]

22. Flying attire has changed across the board...

I always try to look a little nice when I fly, though of course I don't want to forego comfort and wearing things that are sensible in the case of missed flights or an emergency. I will add that I've probably been bumped up to first class (more so when they used to do that more frequently) a number of times, and I don't think it hurts that I try to look nice on flights.

[Polly Hennessey]

32. Don't believe she was interviewing a politician. n/t

[Maeve]

6. What century is this? Oy. eom

[Orrex]

9. IMO they are entirely inappropriate.

Honestly, I look terrible in them.


But if someone else want to wear them, no problem.

[Solly Mack]

10. There exist professional attire that is sleeveless and entirely appropriate.

Women are not responsible for the actions of men. Nor are women responsible for the thoughts of men.

Why do women get punished for both?

I already know the answer.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. On Board, Solly

A tank top: not appropriate
A business dress with no sleeves in July? Appropriate.

And what's with the no open toe shoes thing? Are there forklifts driving through those rooms in the Capitol?

[Solly Mack]

21. I wondered about that too. The open-toes.

What is going on in the Capitol exactly?

It's funny and not funny.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. A Hold Over From Horse Poop In The Streets?

Someone needs to tell them we've had these things called cars and buses for about 110 years now.

[Solly Mack]

33. lol!

Or a toe fetish.

Or phobia.

[nolabear]

35. Feet are considered an erotic zone.

The rules are arbitrary but I understand professionalism.

[Solly Mack]

41. They are, for some.

That's fine. Not a reason to ban open-toed shoes though.

Not saying that is the reason. Just saying it shouldn't be a reason.


Yes





No






Maybe it is easier to ban all than to actually formulate a rule that allows for certain kinds but clearly states which aren't allowed. It didn't take me long to find examples but then I'm not in government.

[nolabear]

43. Oh yeah, I think they can be very classy. And the slope isn't that slippery.

How many professionals would wear those last couple?

I feel for men too in those ridiculous jackets and ties but hey, they made the rules.

[Solly Mack]

46. None. It was an extreme example.

I agree. Some are classy, tasteful, and professional.

[demmiblue]

24. Well, there is a lot of knuckle-dragging going on there... that can't be good for uncovered toes!

[ProfessorGAC]

31. So Is Drool

But, that shouldn't prohibit the wearing of open toed shoes. Just dumb, ain't it?

[July]

79. That policy isn't going to make the Grifter Princess happy.

What with her allegedly stolen high-heeled sandal designs.

Of course, no-one is going to tell Real-Estate Barbie to change her shoes. Or her dress.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. +1.

[heaven05]

13. Just RW males

enforcing their dominance over all not like them.... period.

[niyad]

14. and I find it annoying that the women on the local stations here have to wear sleeveless

outfits in the WINTER, while the men are actually warm.

hey, guys, the sight of bare shoulders makes you lose control????

[mopinko]

66. yeah, must wear sleeveless dress on the teevee machine, but not when

out doing the job of reporter.
fuck these neanderthals.

[niyad]

103. exactly!!

[niyad]

16. well, I guess it is okay for melanoma and ivanka to run around in sleeveless outfits at big,

important meetings. soooo professional.

[ananda]

17. Why did they target Haley Byrd?

Melania, Ivanka, and many other females in government
wear sleeveless dresses, and imo, they look fine, all of them.

[pnwmom]

23. Can men wear tank tops? Why not require suits for both,

if they're required for men.

[demmiblue]

26. .

[moriah]

101. Actually, that's the part I saw, too.

Yes, they're probably scared of the dangers of girl-shoulder, but the guys in sports jackets and ties are probably sweltering just as much, if not worse. A light jacket over a sleeveless top is probably easier to deal with than even a summer weight suit.

[left-of-center2012]

25. Would they have turned this woman away?

[onecent]

28. Those people in the lobby are older than the chambers.....Hell this is 2017...get a grip.

[Polly Hennessey]

34. Again, she is not a

reporter at work. She is a First Lady in an entirely different setting.

[onecent]

36. Oh EXCUSE me, my mistake....How old are you?????

[Skittles]

47. how old are YOU?

and please tell me why I don't see sleeveless men on the news

[Dulcinea]

57. Ugh. Would you want to?

Old men in tank tops!

[Jim Beard]

98. That is equivalent to sleeveless on unshaven arm pits male or female

[OilemFirchen]

88. Don't know where you get your news...

but I saw these professional men, hard at work, for quite a period:

[nolabear]

38. Maybe not the same but aren Melania and Ivanka often sleeveless?

I noticed it yesterday in Poland and I assume it doesn't get more business than greeting heads of state.

[demmiblue]

44. Today, Melania wore a sleeveless designer dress to Trump's major speech addressing Poland.

Link to tweet

[leftstreet]

48. Maybe it's the bright colors. Looks like a beach towel n/t

[onenote]

58. Yes they are often sleeveless. So was Michelle. Who cares?

[demmiblue]

63. I think you and nolabear are on the same page.

[nolabear]

67. Not I. It's a bizarre standard.

[greatauntoftriplets]

39. Washington, DC, is extremely hot and humid in summer.

I'd wear a sleeveless dress, too.

[seaglass]

40. I have learned that sleeveless dresses are unprofessional. I disagree. n/t

[tritsofme]

49. If men are required to wear jackets, this does not seem unreasonable.

My major problem here is that if there is a strict dress code enforced, it should be clearly defined.

[July]

82. A woman's sleeveless dress looks fine.

See pictures posted in this thread of Nancy Reagan, Jackie Kennedy, and Michelle Obama in sleeveless yet elegant dresses. Dresses, regardless of sleeves, are, well, "dressy" for women.

What sleeveless outfit a man could wear looks reasonable to you? There are no real choices (so far) for men, because "professional" attire for males means, at the least, a nice jacket and pants with a long-sleeved shirt (tie amps up the dressiness).

[HAB911]

50. Paul Ryan, a middle-age man who wears ball caps backwards

is telling women how to dress "appropriately." How Republican of him.

Link to tweet

[doc03]

51. It pisses them off to see women with

bigger biceps than theirs

[torius]

54. Men generally don't show

their legs or arms. Women are expected to show their legs, and to wear uncomfortable, damaging shoes. So why shouldn't they show their arms, too, if they want? And how was that reporter supposed to know it was not OK, if the rules are not given? I would have no idea. I feel more exposed showing my legs than I do going sleeveless, which is more of a weather thing. Men have only one option to look "professional" and they know what it is. Women have to guess.

[Skittles]

71. only the women are expected to show some skin

it is SEXISM

[Major Nikon]

72. I'm just waiting for assless chaps to come back in vogue

[Skittles]

73. that's funny but, that's the gist of it

only the gals are expected to show some skin - it's ridiculous

the sleeveless trend FOR WOMEN ONLY is sexism, pure and simple

[Major Nikon]

87. Any dress code that is different for men and women is sexist

Personally I wouldn't mind wearing a skirt, especially in the summer in Texas.

[July]

83. Women who object to dresses can wear pants and look professional.

They're not required to wear dresses, sleeveless or not, because they have more fashion options than men currently have.

But I don't think the dress is going anywhere, and I don't think many women wear dresses in order to "show some skin." Dresses of some kind are the history of women's fashion. Luckily, we now live in a time when women in pants don't raise an eyebrow. Maybe someday men will have greater options, too.

[wildeyed]

56. They need to spell out a dress code if they are going to enforce one.

They keep extra ties for men who show up without one. Why not a sweater or scarf a woman could tie over her shoulders if they deem that so inappropriate? Women's business attire is a much more complicated subject than men's. I just had a long text back and forth with an aunt from CA over what constituted 'business casual' for women in the South. She was attending a conference and didn't want to break an unwritten rule. In her town, business casual is Chuck Taylors and blue jeans. Not so much in Atlanta. Sigh....

Personally, I would never go anywhere 'business-y' without a sweater or light jacket, but that is because they keep the AC on frigid and I end up with blue fingernails if I have to be inside wearing seasonally appropriate summer clothing for any length of time.

[Doreen]

84. I see nothing unprofessional about sleeveless dresses.

As long as they do not show cleavage they are fine. It is not women's fault that men have not designed a sleeveless shirt that would look professional on them. Maybe women are the only ones who can pull it off and there is nothing wrong with that. I just think it is another step to controlling women. There are short sleeved shirts that men can wear that still look professional. This is about what is wrong with the men not the women.

[applegrove]

86. I would think younger women were wearing the sleeveless dresses and

shirts. I'm guessing that they are mostly democrats. Fox news was the first to out their women in cocktail dresses. The fashion followed that everywhere else. So certainly Republicans are not about women not dressed for cocktails during the day. I wonder if Ryan just does not want Democratic members of Congress to out attract the hoard of old white men. Maybe this is directed at Kamila Harris and all the other Democratic female candidates in 2018 and 2020? Think of all the pretty footage that will be missed out on in the races to come.

[OilemFirchen]

90. Thank dog no one watched this harpy doing her job:

[OilemFirchen]

91. Or this one, in the House chamber of Congress:

Do bra straps count as sleeves?

[MineralMan]

99. Not for me, they're not. I look odd in a dress of any kind,

with my full beard and hairy arms.

[MosheFeingold]

100. Not sure why I thought of this

But have a male reporter (preferably with a mullet) cut the sleeves off his suit/shirt and try to go in.

It would be the check if there was a double standard.

Later, he could go to a Trailer Park Bros reunion.

[tammywammy]

102. A sleeveless dress is professional

I can see carrying a jacket or cardigan with you, you never know how chilly a building will be. Thanks to Michelle Obama the sleeveless sheath is very fashionable.

I say this as someone that interacts with federal government employees at work.

[Blue_Tires]

105. So it's official:

Congress takes a harder line on women's attire than they do Russian infiltration in our White House

[demmiblue]

110. Props to Rep. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) for commenting about the dress code on the floor:

A Republican congresswoman on Wednesday weighed in on the recent controversy over the long-standing dress code for a special hallway in the House, noting her own attire goes against the rules.

After concluding a floor speech about first responders, Rep. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) ended her remarks by pointing out her sleeveless dress and open-toed shoes.

“Before I yield back, I want to point out, I’m standing here in my professional attire, which happens to be a sleeveless dress and open-toed shoes,” she said. “With that, Mr. Speaker, I yield back.”

...

This isn't McSally's first time pushing back on a dress code. As an Air Force fighter pilot, McSally sued then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld over a rule that required female members of the military to wear an abaya when off-base in Saudi Arabia.

McSally, who was serving as a lieutenant colonel at the time, in her suit argued that the rule was unconstitutional because male members of the military were not mandated to wear “host nation attire” when off-base.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/341647-gop-rep-weighs-in-on-congressional-attire-during-house-floor-speech