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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNeed help with this: Charges that ACA is targeting Downs babies
through prenatal testing and more are being aborted as a result.
I have not yet found any information refuting the charge.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)If it sounds too batshit crazy to be true, guess what.
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)because they can only provide you with wingnut sources.
MichiganVote
(21,086 posts)MiniMe
(21,718 posts)How can you refute something that doesn't exist?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)even if it were true, fetal testing is simply information. Should pregnancy tests be banned?
spanone
(135,872 posts)Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)I knew that would be the case.
I need substantive information in opposition to the charge.
I am a grandmother to a Downs child.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)thanks.
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)So how can anyone supply you with that information? We can't.
Make them cite where the ACA states it. They can't.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)those tests are done routinely in mothers over a certain age, and offered to others. What big difference would the ACA have to do with that? Sounds more like the usual scare-mongering that they did over the death panels.
Everyone has the right choose, legally, in America whether they want to give birth or not. The people freaking out about this sound like low information voters, who scare easily.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)It's just ducky if a mom wants to abort a healthy fetus.
It's also just ducky if a mom wants to abort a disabled fetus.
Even if the story is true, it makes no difference. Abortion is not a choice anyone should criticize, no matter the mother's reason.
Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)and that is the issue. I am sorry parents may chose to abort for this reason and this is up to them. I know some that have and some that have not. It is a choice that our tools and tests allow us to make.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Ask them to supply time series for the number of Downs syndrome babies conceived, the number aborted and the number of live births. The fact is that I doubt this exists. Without this the entire charge is all SPECULATION of the following type:
1) ACA provides more people access to the type of prenatal care that people with good insurance always had
2) This would include an ultrasound and - if wanted - amniocenteses;
3) Amniocenteses can detect that a baby has Downs Syndrome.
4) The parents may then opt for an abortion THAT WILL NOT BE COVERED BY ANY GOVERNMENT PROVIDED INSURANCE due to the Hyde amendment.
At this point, the ONLY people I can think of with insurance who otherwise would not have had it are people with pre-existing conditions - who can buy very expensive insurance - which is better than not being able to get it at all - and kids 26 and under on parents plans. The latter are not all that likely to have Downs Syndrome kids as this is correlated to maternal age.
Therefore this is likely just conjecture.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)However, my daughter was only 18 when her child with Downs was born.
She is the one who is listening to these right wing nuts.
It is upsetting to me and I am having a difficult time collecting my thoughts to make a sensible case.
Lex
(34,108 posts)very well without knowing her sources, where she got her information?
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)She says that the ACA forces women to get prenatal testing or a "triple screen" and she heard this from a mothers of Downs group.
marmar
(77,090 posts)The "Pro-Life" movement is not known for its adherence to facts.
Lex
(34,108 posts)It sounds like rumors without any basis in fact whatsoever.
pnwmom
(108,991 posts)That's ridiculous.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)expands programs that will result in more coverage for a child like your daughter's.
it's the Republican plan, without coverage or affordable coverage for children with preexisting conditions that I think would lead to more abortions.
knowing a health care and other sources of support would be there for you and your baby (the Democratic way) versus "you're on your own" and insurance companies can deny coverage to your child, or make it so expensive (compared to other people) that you could not afford it.
which case would make you more likely to abort, the Democratic prospect or the Republican one?
the Republican one, because the child and the mom are being tossed aside in favor of the private health care insurance industry --which in Republican hands will be destined to cover fewer and fewer children and adults, all the while Medicaid would be cut and then finally Medicare would be reduced then eliminated.
to bring a child into that type of future is scary.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)More prenatal testing means more awareness of severe fetal defects and probably a higher incidence of abortion, but that is not "targeting" fetuses with birth defects.
That's like saying breast health screening is pro-mastectomy, or even that bank statements are "pro-bankruptcy"
The alternative view (actually held by some people) is that it is better for parents to be kept ignorant of the health/development of a fetus rather than run the risk they might chose to terminate a pregnancy... which is a crazy argument.
Lex
(34,108 posts)end of life decisions because somehow that is like a death panel. Or something. Ignorant people are afraid of more information so informed decisions can be made, I guess.
pnwmom
(108,991 posts)And it will be up to women how they proceed after getting test results.
(On the other hand, some older women, who might otherwise have gotten an abortion, might decide to continue with a pregnancy with a healthy fetus.)
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)and BTW floating rabid right-wing talking points is a bad way to make friends here.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)I am not floating anything. I am seeking information.
I have been here a long time and can do without your scolding.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)companies? Medicaid? Who? Where do they go for health care? Who are these women? Who are the providers?
Sorry, but you're gonna have to provide a hell of a lot more info than you have. It sounds like some vague republican rumor at this point, like those mystical death panels.
When in fact it's the republicans who'd be happy for all the sick and challenged to just just disappear so they don't have to take care of them - once they're born of course. After that mother and child are nothing to them unless they're rich.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)No one has a responsibility to refute said charge. The onus is on the person making the claim.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)I think this is the article that is being quoted to my daughter:
Supreme Court Unexpectedly Upholds Regulatory Elimination of Down Syndrome
A common reaction to the recent Supreme Court decision upholding the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) was that it was unexpected. The Chief Justice reportedly sided with the dissenters to overturn the entire law, only to then switch and author the majority opinion. But buried within the PPACA regulations is something that for many also should be unexpected. If its not addressed, it does not matter what else PPACA does for individuals with Down syndrome and their families.
Pursuant to PPACAs provision for no-cost preventive care services for women, insurance policies will be required to provide no-cost prenatal genetic testing starting August 1, 2012. A preventive treatment exists in response to many non-genetic prenatal tests. For instance, when my wife was expecting our daughter, she was prenatally tested for gestational diabetes and was able to monitor her condition so that it did not negatively impact the pregnancy. This is not the case, however, for prenatal testing for Down syndrome, the condition our daughter has had since at or near her conception.
There is no treatment pre- or post-natally for the extra 21st-chromosomal material that causes Down syndrome. Currently, an estimated 400,000 Americans have Down syndrome. Characterizing prenatal testing for Down syndrome as preventive care expresses a policy that fetuses diagnosed with Down syndrome should be prevented from being born. Indeed, a member of the Courts majority, Justice Ginsberg, previously stated in an interview that one purpose of abortion is to reduce populations that we dont want to have too many of. Population reduction is exactly what happens where there is a public policy for prenatal genetic testing.
Public policies for prenatal testing result in more pregnancies being diagnosed and aborted. Graphs accessible at the European Surveillance of Congenital Anomalies database demonstrate this impact, with the rate of Down syndrome pregnancies increasing, but the number of live births decreasing in those countries with a public prenatal testing program. This impact is not solely a European experience.
California has had a state prenatal testing program since the 1980s. Program researchers have stated that the programs purpose was to reduce the number of babies born with Down syndrome. Though almost 1,400 births with Down syndrome would otherwise have been expected during the studys time period, only just over 700 babies were actually born, resulting in an almost halving of the next generation of children with Down syndrome. For every baby born with Down syndrome, another was aborted. The goal of the program is being achieved: babies with Down syndrome are being prevented from being born through prenatal diagnosis and abortion.
Link: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thinplaces/2012/07/supreme-court-unexpectedly-upholds-regulatory-elimination-of-down-syndrome/
In the comments is this, which I agree with:
1. The title of this article is sensationalist and ridiculous. The ACA says NOTHING about "eliminating Down syndrome." So to say that the Supreme Court therefore agreed with the notion is ridiculous. It caught my attention for the sole purpose of figuring out how the truth had been bent. For every one of me there will be one hundred others who see it shared on a Facebook newsfeed but don't bother to click it, or won't read down to the SIXTH paragraph where author finally shares that it is not prenatal testing but lack of appropriate information that is the real issue. SHAMEFUL.
2. The statement that the ACA doesn't require accurate information be given (and is therefore an "anti-Down syndrome" piece of legislation is also misleading. By the author's own research, there is already federal law (which the author linked to in the article) which stated that accurate information be given. If it is already the law, why does there need to be ANOTHER law to accomplish the same task. I do understand that the first law is not being followed, and I am disgusted by that fact. Adding another essentially unenforceable law to the books wouldn't make the situation any better.
3. I agree with the previous poster, that prenatal testing can do a world of good for families who will eventually receive a diagnosis of Down syndrome. As someone who didn't receive one, but has a child with DS now, I can tell you that the excruciating feeling of grief at a time in your life which should be the most joyous is something you never really get over. Likewise, having my child immediately taken from my womb and to the NICU for testing that could have been done while he was still in my womb had I known he needed it before he was born (to check for heart and intestinal defects). Had I opted for prenatal testing, the grief, and the diagnostic testing, could have been long past when my beautiful son finally entered the world.
4. The ACA does not FORCE anyone to have prenatal testing, or an abortion in the case of DS. The ACA OFFERS testing free of charge. So did my private insurance plan, and I did not have it done. If you get a positive diagnosis, the ACA does not FORCE nor ENCOURAGE nor PAY FOR an abortion if the mother chooses to have one. Nor does it have any jurisdiction to force a private insurer to provide funding for one.
5. I see tremendous irony in an article that basically calls out the medical community for giving false/biased information being based predominantly on false/biased information.
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)Nor any other differently-abled populations. That is a scurrilous lie.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)It has all the hallmarks of the usual email-tripe that gets sent around to unsophisticated voters. Notice the "european studies.." line, the "personal story" and the title that completely has no relation to the story??
Total BS. It talks about making the tests AVAILABLE to women, instead of it being a financial barrier to getting them. What the women CHOOSE to do with the info is their own legal and personal choice.
NOWHERE does this even state that the ACA is trying to eliminate Downs Syndrome. This is the usual pro-life hogwash. I tire of such absolute ignorance on the internet. I read it in an email... must be TRUE!!!!
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)if she wanted to be tested for Downs, which increases with maternal age. That was my own experience. Why didn't they scream about it back then? The test has been available for decades.
In so many ways, I feel like I am living in a time warp in 2012. Feels like 1912.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)Some believe that ACA forces women who go for prenatal care to undergo the test for Downs.
Lex
(34,108 posts)It's just some right-wing fantasy. Like the death panels BS.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)maybe take a break for a half an hour and read a fair summary of the law and what it does.
we keep telling you things about the law and you don't seem to know anything about it.
when do you take responsibility for learning about it?
we need your help on this, the truth needs your help and the only way is to educate yourself.
READ IT, please.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)It allows the parents to prepare for the birth, if the baby does have issues, too. So it's a good test.
NashvilleLefty
(811 posts)Pre-natal testing is covered, but there's nothing in there about what should happen if some condition is discovered.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)It makes no sense.
My daughter is claiming that pregnant women on Tenncare are required to have the screening for Downs. I can find nothing that says that, but she is determined it is forced on expectant mothers by Tenncare.
I am frustrated with her, but will let it go.
At the appropriate time I will point out that those making these claims regarding ACA are the very ones who will pass laws to cut benefits for needy children such as their Downs children.
jillan
(39,451 posts)I have a child with a condition similar to Downs, so I have been sensitive to these stories/talking points....
BUT - the question I have - is why do they even care????
Once that special needs child is born, they cut all their services.
The Paul Ryan budget will cut funding to special education.
The GOP governors have cut medicaid access and are fighting against the ACA expansion of medicaid.
The special needs population receives medicaid.
The Bush administration tried to cut funding for school buses for special ed.
As a parent, I am constantly having to be an advocate for my child. They are trying to take away all her services.
That should be your response - why do they even care? Because they do everything they can when they are in power to cut services and healthcare to children with Downs.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)My daughter is simply not mature enough to think it through in that respect. Her son, my grandson with Downs, is such a sweet loving child. He is the light of my life. He and all other children like him and your child are deserving of whatever our society can provide for them.
Thank you for your post.
jillan
(39,451 posts)the doctors made me go thru every prenatal test there was - covering their behinds - but I told my husband that even if this baby had a genetic condition I would probably go through with the pregnancy. Thankfully, I did not have to make that decision.
But that's just it. Knowing you are going to have a special needs child does not always result in abortion. What it does do is help the parents prepare.
(((hugs)))
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)sorry to be that blunt.
but the person trying to counter the lies needs to look at the law or summary of the law.