Please help me understand: I clearly remember PA called for Hillary

[adigal]

Last edited Sun Jul 30, 2017, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Around 9PM and then shortly after switched to Trump. Since cities come in last, how can that be?

And around 11PM or a little later, I was jubilant because the Detroit Free Press called Michigan for Clinton. A few hours later, after Detroit came in, they called it for Trump.

It didn't make sense to me then, and doesnt now. Can someone please explain this to me?

And I am NOT proposing conspiracy theories, but I have a very clear recollection of both these calls being made and then reversed. Does anyone else remember?

For everyone saying, NO! Neither of these things happened - google is SO easy to use!

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/09/how-free-press-missed-mark-michigan-projection-clinton/93533726/

And I heard the PA call, either CNN or MSNBC. Still looking.

[virtualobserver]

1. as I remember, it was that neither Detroit nor Philly went as strongly for Hillary as expected

all I really remember though, was the sinking feeling.

[ImpeachTheGOP]

2. Philly did their job.

She won the city by 500,000 votes. We came through. The western part of the state made it close enough to steal.

[virtualobserver]

7. not quite as well as Philly did for Obama...not that the difference was enough to change the outcome

my memory of the night was that I hoped that Philly and Detroit would put her over the top, though.

[adigal]

18. Philly also has...wait for it! Hackable voting machines!

I remember a story on it before the election and thinking Uh-oh.

[sharedvalues]

10. NE PA - Luzerne and Lackawanna. Brainwashed by Fox

And very likely targeted on social media by the Russians.

Daily Kos said Luzerne and Lackawanna were the difference. Lackawanna went barely for Hillary but the two counties have been hugely blue for decades.

[adigal]

19. Makes no sense. Right? And no discussion afterwards nt

[ReformedGOPer]

25. I live in Luzerne

and the support for Trump was everywhere. I saw dozens of Trump signs and very few HRC signs. I had a terrible feeling leading up to the election, but I had hoped I was being paranoid.

[sharedvalues]

29. Out at a Susquehanna church picnic today

And there were ZERO Trump hats or shirts. I probably saw 150 people.

Worm is turning


(Also I ascribe all those signs in Luzerne and Lackawanna to lies from Fox and Limbaugh and right wing radio. Yes, all the local Walmart employees who are paid peanuts for 30hrs a week to avoid benefits SHOULD be angry. But Fox gets them falsely angry at Democrats instead of billionaires like the Waltons who are profiting from those crappy jobs)

[Fozzledick]

3. Is old Russian saying: Those who cast the votes determine nothing.

Those who count the votes determine everything.

[dchill]

4. It's not a conspiracy theory...

It's a conspiracy.

[still_one]

5. There is no excuse for the fact that every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing

states lost to the establishment, incumbent, republican, except that too many people did not come out and vote, and that is unforgivable

[greeny2323]

6. PA

I live in PA and I'm fairly sure I'd remember my state being called. I don't think it happened.

[adigal]

20. It was on either CNN or MSNBC

I was driving home from class and listening to Sirius.

[WinkyDink]

35. No.

[ReformedGOPer]

26. I live in Luzerne and it wasn't called.

[Rhiannon12866]

36. I agree.

I remember my heart sank right then. And welcome to DU!

[yallerdawg]

8. Detroit Free Press made a bad call based on polling.

The whole country did!

Similar scenarios played out across the nation with Trump cashing in on white voters in reliably Republican counties at a much higher clip than Romney in 2012. Clinton. however, only matched President Barack Obama's 2012 performance in reliably Democratic counties.

In U.S. counties that have voted Republican in every election since 2000, Trump ran up huge margins, winning those counties by roughly 66% to 30%, or by 36 percentage points. In 2012, Mitt Romney had carried them by 29 points. But Clinton only matched Obama's performance in 2012 in reliably Democratic counties, winning in those by 66% to 31%.

Polls generally mischaracterized the race, with a few exceptions, often giving Clinton a big lead in the national popular vote and in certain battleground states, including Michigan.

Trump's sweeping victory suggests pollsters may have wildly underestimated the number of hidden Trump voters — people who voted for Trump but never popped up on pollster radar.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/09/how-free-press-missed-mark-michigan-projection-clinton/93533726/

[BzaDem]

9. PA was never called for Hillary, and cities come in first in PA.

Hillary was way ahead in PA throughout the evening, but that is because Philly typically comes in sooner than the rest of the state. No network called PA for Hillary, though Chris Matthews on MSNBC was optimistic that she would win based on a contact he had in Philly. Hillary did have a margin in Philly that would ordinarily indicate that she could barely hold the state, but it was not enough to withstand supercharged rural turnout in this election.

In MI, cities (Detroit in particular) do come in last, which is why Trump was so far ahead throughout much of the Michigan count. She gradually reduced Trump's lead throughout the evening, in the end coming within 0.2%. The Detroit Free Press did call Michigan for Clinton, but that poll assumed votes were regionally distributed as in a typical election. It did not account for Trump running ahead of typical Republicans (and Hillary running behind typical Democrats) in rural areas, particularly in areas with large populations of non-college-educated whites.

[adigal]

21. Well then, I must have been eating hallucinogens

I remember it.

[sharedvalues]

11. There is substantial suppression in Philly/Pitt/cities

GOP lawyers go to heavily D precincts and challenge voters frivolously to create lines and encourage voters to give up and go home.

Election day should be a holiday or Sunday. And we need a law saying voting waits must be equal in D and R areas countrywide.

[Proud liberal 80]

15. While no one is going to the rural areas

Where the cheating is really happening.

[democratisphere]

12. The rural areas of PA went for drumpf in huge numbers and it made the difference.

[Proud liberal 80]

14. Republicans like to talk about "fraud and cheating"

in the cities and urban areas. But I think the real cheating and shenanigans are happening in those rural areas where hardly anyone lives, everyone is a republican, and no one from the other side is really checking them. I remember watching tv on election night and Trump's margin in areas like this all over the country was ridiculous.

[democratisphere]

16. drumpf signs were in almost every yard in rural PA.

It was mind blowing to see how many signs there were.

[Proud liberal 80]

17. Yeah

I am not saying he didn't win those areas or that he didn't win by large margins. But I think the margins were too big, even for those areas. like let's say one precinct had 100 voters, and Trump won 70-30, whose to say that they didn't count it as 80-20.

[ReformedGOPer]

28. Agree. I'd see 20 Trump signs for every one HRC sign.

[adigal]

22. I agree...it was in those areas Obama won

and Hillary lost.

[sharedvalues]

30. Not altering: voter suppression.

In WI a law suppressed 200k votes, far more than the winning margin.
https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/


And at the Senate Intel committee we've heard testimony saying swing states like PA were targeted for social media suppression.


Voters in PA were lied to by social media and right-wing media.

[L. Coyote]

41. The black box voters overwhelmed the polling.

[Trumpdumper]

23. No. Neither Pa. nor Mich. was ever called for Clinton. Not by any network or national newspaper.

[adigal]

43. Here you go....Detroit Free Press called for Hillary at 9:30pm

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/09/how-free-press-missed-mark-michigan-projection-clinton/93533726/

Facts matter.

[blue neen]

24. Sorry, I'm from PA and don't recall PA being called for Hillary.

Nope.

[brokephibroke]

27. Chris Matthews was positive philly would come in

And would be enough for Hillary

[LenaBaby61]

31. OP, we're in a world of trouble going into 2018 and 2020...

Because the "fix" is STILL in, be it GOP-driven voter-suppression IE: voter ID laws unfavorable to Dems. You'll have fewer voting stations opened for Dems, voter purging, voter crosschecking, gerrymandering and the ruskies are STILL meddling, but this time who knows what they'll come up with to make sure Dem votes go missing? We still don't 'exactly know' the totality of how negatively they affected our 2016 GE in which tRumputin--their boy was installed. Who knows what they'll come up with by 2018 to help KEEP that treasonous pig installed as president since this tRumputin Department of Homeland Security doesn't give ONE damn about keeping the ruskies from interfering again in 2018/2020. tRiumputin barely won the 3 states he HAD to win (Pa., WI, MI) to be installed into the presidency. Whose to know if the ruskies can make more inroads into removing Dem voters from voting rolls in bluer states in 2018/2020, and swing those governorships/Senate seats and even those states to thuglicans? Our voting machines in most states are very hackable and many malfunction. Some states have no paper trails of how people vote. Elliptical scanning machines have been shown to make mistakes. No one cares about that of course in the GOP, and we know that tRumputin says that a 400 lb guy on a bed hacked into DNC servers and stole emails and other sensitive materials and gave it to FakiLeaks


Crosscheck Removed 450K Voters in MI, 270 K in AZ and 590 K in NC.


“Before a single vote was cast, the election was fixed by GOP and Trump operatives.

“Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states.

The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report,

The GOP’s Stealth War on Voters,” 8/24/2016.

Crosscheck in action:

Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393


“On Tuesday, we saw Crosscheck elect a Republican Senate and as President, Donald Trump. The electoral putsch was aided by nine other methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters, methods detailed in my book and film, including “Caging,” “purging,” blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to “provisional” ballots that will never be counted.

See www.GregPalast.com for more.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/14/1599330/-Crosscheck-Removed-450K-Voters-in-MI-270-K-in-AZ-and-590-K-in-NC

thuglicans control most things in this country concerning voting---Keeping voting apparatus up and running, to collecting votes to adding/tallying our votes up. They're not going to give that up easily or ALL if they can help it, plus we know they'd LOVE to have themselves a permanent majority party here running things.

[adigal]

48. How did we not know this beforehand?? This is malpractice on the part of the DNC nt

[Sunlei]

32. didn't about 2-4%t of pa. votes go to stein and the male? other party brown? instead of Hillary?

just drained away a percent or less from Ds made the difference in many states/counties. couple counties had blank in presidents spot ballots or the write in area had scribbles in it so pres. vote wasn't counted.

[CK_John]

33. What difference does it make now???

[Gabi Hayes]

37. Not serious, you are?

Thinking not of the future, you are?

[CK_John]

42. I'm very serious, what difference does matter???

[WinkyDink]

34. I live in PA. No, we were NOT called for HRC. You misremember.

[wishstar]

38. As I recall,media reported Trump ahead,but urban/suburban was expected to go for HRC

but when final tallies came in, there weren't enough urban/suburban votes out of Philly to carry her over. I was watching CNN, ABC, MSNBC that night and early reports gave Trump the edge in western and rural areas, but all expectations were that she would win once all votes around Philly were counted.

[DeminPennswoods]

39. PA never called for Hillary

She got the kind of big margins she needed in Philly and the surrounding suburbs, but smaller, rural counties turned out more than in the past. I live in a very Republican area and turnover was probably 80+%. Phila turned out over 60%. If the turnout had been 80%, she'd have won. Posters above are correct that NE Pa "coal country", Lackawanna and Luzerne was where she lost the margin Dems usually get.

[MichMary]

40. I don't know about PA

But I watched Michigan closely, since that's my state. The Free Press did call it for Hillary, very early, but at the time Trump was actually ahead in counted votes, and calling it for Hillary was really only based on the projected totals. The state wasn't actually final for (IIRC) a couple of weeks. I think what threw the projection off was the very high number of non-votes, which included write-ins. I assume a lot of those write-ins were for Bernie.

[WinkyDink]

44. PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE: PA never ever was called by anyone for Hillary. STOP LOOKING.

Some of us actually live here and paid extremely close attention.

There was no "Florida goes for Gore, no, wait, it goes for Bush" situation.

[adigal]

45. I did not say it was officially called. I am saying I heard it on

one of the stations that night around 9PM eastern that PA was going to go for Hillary. Maybe it was a commenter,
So I won't acknowledge something false.

[Yupster]

46. nope - didn't happen

The networks still have their election coverage on u-tube if you want to look.

It did happen in 1988 though. One network called Pa for Dukakis and other two later called for Bush. I watched their evening news next night to see how they explained it. No explanation. Map behind anchor was colored for Bush when night before was for Dukakis. No explanation given.

[adigal]

47. The Detroit Free Press DID call Michigan for Hillary

See top post.

[oberliner]

49. Crazy thing is, even if she won PA and MI, she still loses

Thanks to Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida.