Sanders preps month-long campaign for single-payer health care, with legislation to follow

[Donkees]

By David Weigel August 1 at 5:46 PM

Sen. Bernie Sanders is ramping up his campaign for single-payer health care, starting with digital ads that ask voters to endorse his planned “Medicare for All” legislation ahead of the Senate’s August recess. The six-figure buy, paid for by Sanders’s 2018 Senate reelection campaign, will direct readers to his website, where they can sign on to his bill.

That will tee up legislation that Sanders (I-Vt.) has promised, then delayed, since March — a version of single-payer health care that, he hopes, will avoid some of the pitfalls that have made previous bills politically untenable.

“We’re tweaking the final points of the bill, and we’re figuring out how we can mount a national campaign to bring people together,” Sanders said this past weekend on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

The long delay, a result of GOP health-care legislation repeatedly clawing out of what the media thought was its coffin, has resulted in Republican attacks on the House’s main single-payer bill, sponsored by Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.). As the repeal effort sputtered, Republicans pointed to an Urban Institute analysis of the Conyers bill to say that moving from the current system to universal Medicare would cost $32 trillion, and Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont.) brought up the Conyers bill as a dilatory amendment to the GOP’s proposed health-care legislation. Sanders has challenged the Urban Institute’s math — pointing out that the estimate does not account for possible savings from moving people out of the private insurance market — and suggested that his bill will come with a smaller price tag.




https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/08/01/sanders-preps-month-long-campaign-for-single-payer-health-care-with-legislation-to-follow/

[Trial_By_Fire]

1. Anybody know where people can add their name as citizen co-sponsor?

[Donkees]

3. Link:

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/bernie-mfa

ADD YOUR NAME
Join Bernie as a citizen co-sponsor of his Medicare-for-all, single-payer health care bill
I believe now more than ever that the American people are ready to end the national disgrace of being the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care as a right for all of its people.

Add your name as a citizen co-sponsor of my Medicare-for-all, single-payer health care bill that will guarantee health care as a right for all Americans.

[Trial_By_Fire]

4. Thanks so much for the link...

[George II]

54. Is that Sanders' campaign website?

[leftofcool]

55. Looks like it.

[beam me up scottie]

56. It clearly says "Friends of Bernie Sanders".

Plus I don't see anything about the upcoming Senate election. I don't think he's worrying about his seat right now.

Why would you think it's his campaign site?

[George II]

59. Perhaps because of this:

https://www.fec.gov/data/candidate/S4VT00033/

[beam me up scottie]

62. What does that have to do with a citizens' website ?

I'm sure you've seen official campaign websites, do they usually say "Friends of _____" ?

[George II]

67. It's not a "citizens' website", it's only one page on his campaign website.

Click on "Bernie" on the upper left to get to the main page, after you get past the "sign up now" page.

Note also the FEC mandated attribution at the bottom of every page:

FRIENDS OF BERNIE SANDERS
PO BOX 391
BURLINGTON, VT 05402

PAID FOR BY FRIENDS OF BERNIE SANDERS

[beam me up scottie]

69. It's a PAC, not his official campaign website.

I'm not getting why it matters whose website collects signatures.

[George II]

80. It's not a PAC, https://berniesanders.com is his official campaign website.

https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/bernie-mfa is a page on his official campaign website.

Try this: https://go.berniesanders.com (the link above without the /page/s/bernie-mfa) See what you get.

"Friends of Bernie Sanders" is not a PAC, it is his FEC registered campaign committee.

https://www.fec.gov/data/committee/C00411330/?cycle=2018

Surely you know that a candidate can't have a PAC.

[beam me up scottie]

84. Says here it's a PAC:

Friends Of Bernie Sanders Pac

Public Company
Company Profile
Sector: -
Industry: -
Sub-Industry: -

Friends Of Bernie Sanders is a United States Federal Political Committee. The Committee exists to elect a candidate of the to the United States Senate.

https://www.bloomberg.com/profiles/companies/0581439D:US-friends-of-bernie-sanders-pac

Still not getting why it matters who collects signatures. Can you explain that part?

[George II]

92. I prefer to rely on the FEC.gov site which contains data submitted by the candidate himself.

https://www.fec.gov/data/committee/C00411330/?cycle=2018

FRIENDS OF BERNIE SANDERS
SENATE - PRINCIPAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE ID: C00411330

[beam me up scottie]

94. Still not getting why it matters if a PAC is collecting signatures.

Can you explain that part?

Seems like a weird nit to pick.

[George II]

99. It doesn't matter if a PAC collects signatures, did anyone one ever say that? I didn't see it.

[beam me up scottie]

100. So the molehill is now back to a mountain! Excellent!

Posters wanted to know where to sign and Donkees was nice enough to post a link. Nothing shady going on here.

If people want to sign they can sign. Or not.

Peace out!

[George II]

108. Does that mean that you're admitting that berniesanders.com is Sanders' campaign website...

...and that "Friends of Bernie Sanders" is his official FEC registered campaign committee? I see you avoided that altogether.

Have a blessed night!

[beam me up scottie]

111. Nope, still looks like a PAC to me. I'll let you know if I find his official website.

Last edited Tue Aug 1, 2017, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Glad I could clear that up.

[George II]

126. Whether it looks like a PAC to you or not doesn't change what it really is. Don't bother...

...looking to see if it's his official website, save some time by looking at some of my previous posts.

It IS his official website, paid for by his OFFICIAL Campaign Committee (they even say that at the bottom of every page on that site!)

I'm not confused, you?

[beam me up scottie]

130. Nope, I'm good. I signed it. THANKS FOR THE LINK, DONKEES!

I haven't seen Bernie's 2018 website yet so we might have to wait for it. He's pretty busy fighting to save the ACA and generate grassroots support for his newest Medicare for All bill right now.

I'm not really worried about 2018 anyway, how is Jon Svitavsky's campaign coming along? I haven't heard much about it recently, I hope he hasn't changed his mind.

[George II]

131. Bless your heart.

Trust me, that's it. Did you click on the "contribute" button after you signed up?

[beam me up scottie]

137. May the Force be with you. Live Long and Prosper. R'Amen!

I love religious blessings!



And I don't usually discuss my personal finances with strangers online, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't divulge which organizations I send money to. I can be vague if you insist, I donate monthly to our local animal shelter and also to our local wildlife rehabilitation center, and I donate to a pro-choice organization because they need all they can get to fight the religious right (especially the Catholic Church). Hope that will suffice!

[LanternWaste]

200. Your laborious and petulant arguing of the irrelevant is most bemusing.

Your laborious and petulant arguing of the irrelevant is most bemusing, regardless of the (again, petulant and irrelevant) blessing of anyone's heart.

[Ninsianna]

95. Well there is that whole honesty and integrity thing, when you give you name

and personal information to people, you should know who is getting it and what they intend to do with it. Political campaigns tend to sell this information and if they're being shady about who they are and what they're going to be doing with your information, it matters who's doing the personal data collection.

It's not such a difficult concept in this day and age when so many nefarious actors are out there trying to monetize such information.

[beam me up scottie]

98. So don't sign it. Problem solved!

[leftofcool]

110. No problem there. I stopped signing up for emai lsists.

[Ninsianna]

112. Oh, I'm not stupid enough to fall for these types of scams, I worry about the

gullible people out there who don't know any better.

That's kind of what we Democrats do, worry about people who might be victimized by nefarious scams on the internets. This mountain of disinformation snagging the gullible is very much not a molehill, and it's odd that anyone would suggest that it is, or that scamming people to give up their personal information is a laughing matter.

We already know that people are being targeted by foreign actors who are seeking to damage people in the US, minimizing what might be fraud at worst and just dishonesty at best is troubling.

That is if one cares about Americans, liberals, Democrats or anyone who is frightened out of their wits about losing healthcare right now. This level of predation and dishonesty is no laughing matter, it's cruel and it lacks integrity no Democrat, liberal or progressive should be supporting this dishonesty.

It's not that hard to just explain what it is, and not pretend it's not about creating a donor outreach list for a campaign 3.5 years away. It's disgusting when Trump does it, it's the same where anyone else does it. Making a molehill of a mountain doesn't change what it is, no matter how many mocking emojis seek to excuse deliberate fraud.

[beam me up scottie]

117. 'MURKA! APPLE PIE! MUSTANGS! RED WHITE AND BLUE!

Can't be too careful these days, anyone not using those code words should be viewed with suspicion.

Plus I think you need a super secret password and decoder ring.

[Ninsianna]

120. I'm sorry, I don't understand, what are you trying to say? I don't have the decoder

ring required to translate that. Would it explain why it's acceptable to laughingly erase a black congressman that's been consistently presenting a plan as opposed to just talking about it?

[beam me up scottie]

124. If you think that's what I posted then you do need that decoder ring.

I just checked my posts and i don't see this part:

erase a black congressman that's been consistently presenting a plan as opposed to just talking about it?

Since I cited Conyers work in Congress in this thread a couple of hours ago it would be silly to pretend I tried to "erase" it.

Let's look at that post again:

Yes, just like John Conyers! So I'm glad they haven't given up.

I stand with John Conyers and Bernie Sanders!



https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9403495

So maybe you could show me the part where I erased him.

[Ninsianna]

132. Perhaps set down the super special decoder ring, and re-read my post,

since I never said you said that.

Since I don't follow along with your every post, it really doesn't matter what you claim to have posted hours ago somewhere. It's silly to pretend that I need to do that to respond to a reply to my comment, that was indeed rather silly and did erase John Conyers. (For the record, I typed that, I didn't say you did, though that seems to be a point of confusion.) There seems to be a bit of difficulty is remembering who typed what, what with the false attribution and all those decoder rings and random tangents of what I can only assume is an attempt at snark?

I didn't see your post, and it doesn't address the reply you made to me. I'm sorry, is there some sort of fan club here I'm not aware of, I read posts and respond to them, I don't keep up with what the special clique of decoder ring having "cool kids" get up to.

I'm so sorry if any egos are bruised, but I just don't roll that way. If you wished to correct the perception created by the mocking emjoi and gif filled responses, just use your words and say so. There isn't any need for the hostility. Make your point and clearly, that's all that's necessary.

[beam me up scottie]

134. Glad I could help! People usually recognize the hello Cthulhu in my sig line.

And my name is pretty unique, plus I've been here since 2004 so I tend to forget not everyone knows who's who here.

Some of us old timers are pretty cliquey too. We do welcome new blood though, got to keep that synergie flowing!

[Ninsianna]

138. Oh, is that what that is?

Does it have some sort of meaning?

Your name isn't that unique, it's a Trekkie name right? But with Scotty misspelled?

Sorry if I offended, but I read stuff here, I don't pay much attention to who is posting, I'm content focused, and emojis are not much content, ya know?

Yes, I see the cliqueness, and I've mostly been welcomed by DUers.

I saw your post to your friend, and perhaps it's a typo or you just don't know, but that word is spelled with "y" not an "ie". It also doesn't mean what you told that person it meant. Is that some sort of "in joke" with your clique? Cause it's not very nice to tell someone who's asking for a definition, something that blatantly wrong.

I corrected it, and you seem to be using it correctly here, though your spelling could use some work, so clearly you know better.

Taking advantage of those who don't understand things isn't really playing well or encouraging synergy, now is it? I'd think that a long timer would not stoop to that, but hey far be it from me to get in the way of whatever the clique gets up to with each other.

Never been a fan myself, not even at the age when people engaged in that silliness.

[beam me up scottie]

142. Well science fiction isn't for everyone, it takes imagination.

And sometimes it helps to have a sense of humour as Sir Patrick Stewart reminds us often. I'm sure some people consider him to be part of all this 'silliness' but he is a Shakespearean trained actor and has won several awards for his roles.



I like TOS but actually prefer TNG which was an award winning series. It can be confusing for non-fans.

Still, sci-fi isn't for everyone, I'm partial to it because my dad started me off early. While other girls were playing with dolls I was exploring other worlds via the minds of great writers like Asimov, Bradbury, Herbert, Vonnegut and others.

Oh and the 'scottie' in my name was spelled that way deliberately. It's one of those in-jokes you mentioned. The hello Cthulhu is also significant for a few of us old timey DU Dems who've been here since the Bush years. It's funny some people actually think it's a kitty. I think the tentacles give it away, but not everyone is familiar with Lovecraft's work. Most people just ask what it is, she's quite a conversation starter.

[Ninsianna]

157. I guess not. I'm a fan, and it doesn't really take imagination, unless you're writing it

it does take some empathy, an agile mind, and good reading comprehension.

I'm not really sure why Patrick Stewart is being dragged into this, or why anyone would call him politically silly. I respect the man and politically he's not into supporting people being attacked, in fact he's very voluble on the subject of abuse.

Yeah, fans aren't that confused, but they do know how the character names are spelled, and they don't randomly drag actors into political discussions for no reason at all.

I guess sci-fi isn't for anyone, some prefer plain old fiction, alt-history and all that. I'm partial to all fiction, including science fiction, I like a good story told well, and while I was exploring all that literature had to offer across all genres, I was fortunate to learn the importance of language, of clear and coherent writing, how important words are and why meaning and spelling is key.

There seemed to have been an issue with differentiating "y" and "ie" with you and your buddy, the one who didn't know what the word meant, and whom you played that prank on.

I guess you're fond of the dog breed or something? Is it not a kitty? It seems to be a copy of the hello kitty trademark, which doesn't make it surprising at all to be mistaken for the trademarked image that it was stolen from.

I've no idea what Cuthulu is or the current obession with tentacles is. Is it some sort of religious icon? Or just one of those alt adult fan fics that involves tentacles as some sort of sexual appendage? Not everyone is into such online alt-interests.

I don't much care what people choose to put into their sig lines, and the whole kitty iconography is boring, even when it's trademark violations. I tend to rely on the content of my posts to start conversations, but I can understand how some might feel the need for a gimmick. Not everyone has the skills to actually converse coherently on a subject. I guess that's what the tangents, the gifs and emojis are all about huh?

It's cool, whatever works, but you don't need to try so hard, or make strange comments about Patrick Stewart that sound vaguely as if they're insults. I understand how awkward things can be for people to actually converse, but it's really not necessary to create drama, I'm sure whatever you have to say is worthwhile and you shouldn't be so shy about saying things clearly. No need to drag in Patrick Stewart wily-nily, or manufacture reasons to keep people talking by picking fights.

Dealing with new people is hard, I know, but it's worth trying without the drama, Patrick Stewart or emojis and gifs that can come across as being sorta hostile. I know cliques are soothing, but not everyone who isn't in one is an enemy, nor do they need to be provoked or prodded to keep talking. Some of us are friendly, we just don't like to see people being attacked or abused. Perhaps it's a question of spending so much time exclusively in a clique that one doesn't understand how to carry on a conversation with people who don't already know you, and 13 years is a long time to only engage with people who know the "in jokes".

Branch out, be nice, and perhaps smooth over some of those rough edges, being nice will make things go so much easier than this hostile attitude, it's a bit off putting.

I'm sorry I don't know what your special iconography is about, but not everything that is so sacred to you will be fascinating to those you meet on a political board. When you meet new people they won't know everything about you and some won't care. But it's best to start out pleasantly and if you feel someone has misunderstood you, then approach them politely not with hostility. I hope my advice to you has helped, I understand that some seek out some genres because of feelings of social inadequacy, but you don't have to try to so hard, just be nice.

I like Patrick Stewart too, and I think anyone who asserts that's somehow silly is not someone I would like to know. Those are people who think it's funny for him to be so outspoken about victims of abuse. I agree with him and my point has been that making molehills of mountains that seek to abuse people is wrong. I hope you come around to viewing this the same way Sir Stewart and I do.

You have a good night, and I hope you spend some time thinking about what I've said.

[beam me up scottie]

160. "adult fan fics that involves tentacles as some sort of sexual appendage"?

Oh dear, what have you been reading?



I wouldn't know anything about tentacle porn although I have heard of such fetishes.

No, she is based on an H.P. Lovecraft character called Cthuhlu. That's why I mentioned the writer's name, lol! Oh, my, I certainly didn't think anyone would ever associate that cute lil cartoon based on a series of classic horror stories with tentacle porn. You do have a good imagination!

[Ninsianna]

161. Someone who had apparently discovered it online, I had no idea that such a thing

existed. Hey, I'm not judging what people are into.

Well, to be fair, you mentioned many authors. I vaguely remember something South Parkian about the Cuthulu.

Well you did mention tentacles and who knows what people are into these days. Is it a trademark infringement? Your own artwork? It seems to be deeply personal to you.

Hey, I just read a lot, and these days that exposes you to all the weird stuff people are stumbling onto online.

[LostOne4Ever]

171. Sounds like someone is watching too many x rated Japanese cartoons

and not reading enough classic sci-fi novels to me!

[Ninsianna]

173. Hey now, the people who enjoy their tentacles need to get their freak on too,

let's not judge the tentacle obsessed, now shall we?

[LostOne4Ever]

175. I will agree with that, but let's not neglect classic literature while we are at it. Nt

[beam me up scottie]

178. Yes, H.P. Lovecraft should be required reading.

I'm sure tentacle porn is er...ah...stimulating in its own way but nothing beats a good solid grasp of the classics.

I wonder how many other people enjoy the former but not the latter?

Maybe I'll do a poll, I haven't done one in a while. The phrasing could be tricky.

[Ninsianna]

183. Tentacle enthusiasts are probably into both. After all Lovecraft might be the entry

to that sort of interest. Like your hello kitty knockoff, with the tentacles, some might just take that a bit further.

[Ninsianna]

182. Perhaps the tentacle enthusiasts are not into classical literature?

Or they could do both, who knows? We should not judge them, even if they don't read as much lit as we do.

[beam me up scottie]

177. It does, doesn't it?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't judge people, as long as everyone is a consenting adult human they can get their freak on any way they
want.

They need to leave hello Cthulhu out of it, though. She's not that kind of cartoon.

[Ninsianna]

184. That seems a bit judgey, perhaps the tentacled kitty is just that kind of cartoon.

[Warren DeMontague]

199. "as long as everyone is a consenting adult human they can get their freak on any way they want"

That rather simple and straightforward idea seems to piss a certain contingent of the population off to no end, doesn't it?

[beam me up scottie]

201. Right? I don't care if someone starts thinking about tentacle porn when they see Cthulhu.

It never occurred to me but I don't judge. We've seen what happens here if you try to discuss certain subjects though. It's actually rather insulting to women to assume they don't know what they like.

[Warren DeMontague]

202. Anyway, it's not Lovecraft's fault so much as Hokusai's.

we should all have our facts straight, right?

[beam me up scottie]

204. You're exactly right, he did get the er...tentacle rolling on that particular genre.

Crédit where credit is due.

[Warren DeMontague]

205. What a broad-ranging talent that man had.

I love his work. Seriously.

[beam me up scottie]

209. I do as well.

It's a shame his erotic work tends to get the most attention.

[Warren DeMontague]

214. You think? "The Great Wave" is everywhere.

I think a lot of people just don't realize it was all done by the same guy.

[beam me up scottie]

215. Showing 'Dream of a Fisherman's Wife' on Mad Men garnered a lot of attention.

And you're probably right, they don't realize it's the same artist.

[Warren DeMontague]

216. ..right! I forgot about that.

[George II]

192. That "ie" vs. "y" was intentional, and no, "synergie" isn't an acceptable variant to "synergy"....

...at least not according to Merriam Webster.

[Ninsianna]

193. I wonder what that decoder ring turned that totally wrong definition into.

[George II]

103. You are right. And it also matters who mines that personal data, authorized or not.

Unfortunately the way this is set up, if you give your personal data because you're concerned about single payer legislation, you may wind up getting campaign emails several times a day. It could happen even if you don't give them your personal data.

[Ninsianna]

105. That seems to be the point. Funds seeking venture that's ensnaring gullible folks

who don't understand what they're in for. "Citizen co-sponsorship" of bills is not a thing. This smells bad, and we've already seen that there are a lot of people who are ignorant enough to not understand this.

Have they fixed all those FEC violations where people were sending in multiple donations of $27 without understanding that there is a limit that they are allowed to contribute by law, and were supposed to be informed about?

[George II]

115. Note that on the website linked above each and every page has a "contrbute" button at the top right.

That says a lot to me.

And I won't get into it here, but starting back in December 2015 (note the date) and continuing until late June 2016 I was inundated with pleas for money.

[ehrnst]

251. I know from experience that most "petitions" are simply trying to capture emails

for fundraising and other purposes. Especially from political sources.

Especially when they are given slogan names like "citizen co-sponsorship" - makes people think that their names are going to be seen by anyone other than a database manager....

[QC]

106. Using that personal info on multiple political causes is called synergy, isn't it?

Nothing wrong with that.

[beam me up scottie]

113. Yes, I believe that is the correct term. But isn't it spelled synergie?

I've seen it spelled that way before.

[QC]

116. Now that you mention it, I believe that is an acceptable variant. n/t

[Ninsianna]

135. Um... no. Your friend is having a jest at your expense.

Not how the word is spelled and it's really NOT what it means.

I'm so sorry that you went to the trouble of asking and your friend is being unkind to you and letting you believe something that isn't true.

That seems to be a trend here, but I'll post you the link to Merriam.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synergy

Don't believe everything someone on the internet tells you, there are bad actors out there seeking to lead you astray. Resist, QC!

And check things out yourself! Learn. Vocabulary can seem daunting, but it's not so hard, it is helpful to look things up for yourself though.

Best of luck with your word adventures!



I'm here for you if you need help with other words, and unlike your friend, I won't laugh at you or make a laughingstock of you.

[Ninsianna]

133. No, that's not what the word means, and it's spelled with a "y".

I mean, if you don't know what a word means or how it's spelled, perhaps don't "help" people who are asking out of ignorance?

That's kind of mean.

[Ninsianna]

128. No, that's not what that's called.

Do you really not know what the word synergy means?

Here you go:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synergy

It's really awful when you define a word and it's really wrong, isn't it?

Using personal info on multiple political causes, by stealing information through fraud is called FRAUD, and people who are not criminals or hackers tend to frown on that.

Hackers and bots and nefarious organizations that do this kind of stuff are called criminals. They prey on people who are ignorant, defenseless and gullible. These are people that Democrats, liberals and progressives seek to protect.

We don't laugh at them, and we know what words mean.

There is something really wrong with not knowing simple words and cheering on the people who seek to target the vulnerable online. Minimizing that is wrong, laughing at it is just sadistic.

Synergy, as the definition in the link should have made clear, is about people working together, not erasing Democrats or attacking them to achieve a goal. Great word, too bad some people are so confused about what it means, and that definition is so off the mark, it's sad.

Unless one needs a super special decoder ring to puzzle out it's true meaning. But perhaps that is a far too complicatedview of a simple ignorance of vocabulary.

Well, at least you now know, and remember there are no stupid questions. If you need help with other words, might I suggest Merriam Webster? They are rather amusing, while also helping to expand one's vocabulary. Perhaps check before posting so publicly? To avoid the blushes, of course.

[mountain grammy]

66. Thanks.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. Kick And Rec

[Blue_true]

5. Why not craft the legislation then run the campaign to get notice for it? nt

[Expecting Rain]

13. Because that would require real work?

And this approach gets someone (not Democrats) a bigger email list?

[ProfessorPlum]

197. excellent, I'm super glad you made the point that Sanders isn't a Democrat

that hardly is ever mentioned

[George II]

15. Especially since he's been working on "single payer" for at least 24 years:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017450736

[Trial_By_Fire]

17. At least somebody is...

[George II]

19. Many have been, in fact Congressman John Conyers has introduced a "single payer" bill every year....

...for the last 14 years.

https://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/conyers-reintroduces-national-single-payer-health-care-bill/

[beam me up scottie]

22. So you're saying it's a good thing to keep introducing this bill in the senate.

I agree with you, Bernie has been promoting single payer universal health care since he took office in 1991.

He cosponsored John Conyers' bills when he was in the house and once he became a senator he started introducing his own bills in the senate.

So yay! Bernie!

[sheshe2]

24. That is a very long time. nt

[beam me up scottie]

26. Yes, just like John Conyers! So I'm glad they haven't given up.

I stand with John Conyers and Bernie Sanders!

[sheshe2]

29. Thank you for recognizing Conyers hard work.

I may have missed your praise of him before.

[pangaia]

30. With you.. as usual....

[beam me up scottie]

35. Hey you!

[George II]

25. Then why didn't he introduce it in March when he first said he would, and why is he now....

....(five months later) "tweaking the final points of the bill"? Surely if he's been working on it since 1991 it has been "tweaked" already.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Maybe because it wasn't ready and he was trying to save the ACA.

Surely if he's been working on it since 1991 it has been "tweaked" already.

Who said he's been working on it since 1991? That's silly.

Bernie's introduced several Medicare for All bills in the senate and each one was 'tweaked'. That's how it works, you find out what parts are unworkable and keep trying to improve it.

I'm willing to wait until it's ready and for him to generate grassroots support. There's nothing wrong with that approach.

Go Bernie !

[George II]

44. Um.....

Who said he's been working on it since 1991?

You did.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029402976#post19

[beam me up scottie]

46. Actually it says "has been promoting single payer universal health care since he took office in 1991

I didn't say he was "working on one bill since 1991".

Glad we cleared that up, George.

[R B Garr]

49. You mean he was working on the Clinton's universal health care legislation in the 90's,

And now he's endorsing John Conyers (D) bill.

[beam me up scottie]

51. Actually he supported single payer universal h/c before the Clintons came on the scene.

And he's not in Congress anymore so he writes bills for the Senate. Plus they're different from Conyers' bills.

Different houses, different bills.

[R B Garr]

61. He made a speech...? But luckily the Clintons were actively working towards health care for all

And that was about 25 years ago. Let's hope he talks accurately about the history of the Clinton's introducing universal health care, which was mocked and ridiculed when they publicly introduced it. There was plenty of footage on the CNN program "The Nineties" about that period of time just this past weekend. It was all about the Clintons and their early efforts. Lots of Democrats have supported health care for all.

"They're different from Conyers' bills", that doesn't mean that John Conyers hasn't introduced single payer for a decade and a half.

[beam me up scottie]

65. Glad you recognize he's been on board for longer than most.

The 90s are over, fortunately Bernie is looking ahead.

He has introduced several MfA bills in the Senate and is introducing another one soon, so I'm glad you approve of his efforts. He doesn't give up.

Thanks for your support!

[R B Garr]

77. Glad you agree that He needs to be honest and

forthcoming about how long the Democrats have been working on health care for all. Maybe we will hear why he was unable to overcome the political obstacles to get single payer for Vermont. It looks like he gave up there.

Political realities are a thing, though. Lots of good Democrats face obstacles, too.

Glad you're on board for some unity on this issue where Democrats are not accused of being out of touch.

[beam me up scottie]

82. How silly, why would that need to be part of the bill?

This is a Medicare for All bill, not an award ceremony.

And I would have been shocked if he had introduced and passed a health care bill in Vermont since he's a U.S. senator



Welcome aboard the Bernie train!

[R B Garr]

118. Where did I say my post should be part of a bill?

And it's not a bill. That's the point. If he's going to be promoting single payer based on rhetoric, then he should give an accurate representation.

Like Jake Tapper asked Bernie a couple days ago, why doesn't Vermont have single payer?

[pangaia]

86. You guys just don't quit do ya...

Ats ok..
Long as we all vote all is fine.

[beam me up scottie]

91. I think their support for Senator Sanders' bill is awesome!

So glad they're into this unity thing.

[pangaia]

123. Roger that,

[beam me up scottie]

176. Uh oh! They know we're Burlingtonian ALBANIANS! We've been discovered!

Ixnay on the iendlyfray anterbay!

The moose is on the roof! Repeat: THE MOOSE IS ON THE ROOF!

Rendezvous at the sooper seeecret clubhouse. Our new orders will be waiting.

I wish they took requests, this 13 year gig was boring. I want to pose as an upscale art dealer in Paris next time. Or maybe an exotic cello player in Morocco. Of course I would have to learn how to play the cello first. That seems like a lot of work.

[Ninsianna]

185. Don't forget the secret decoder ring and the tentacles!

I'm sure they do, and online identities don't require learning the skills. Perhaps a modification of those beloved tentacles is all it will take. Must keep the iconography, after all.

[pangaia]

187. I know an art dealer in paris AND a great cellist.

[beam me up scottie]

210. Lol! Of course you do!

Last edited Wed Aug 2, 2017, 06:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Wait, does admitting we have friends and family from overseas prove we're SECRET AGENTS?

That's even more damning than using suspicious foreign sounding phrases like "you guys".






Edited to add this is which shouldn't be necessary but yet, sadly it is.

[pangaia]

244. LOL. good one

I've been reading a bunch of your replies to a bunch of guys... and gals.. if I can use that antiquaited yerm..
TYPOs TYPOs



You're MUCH much quicker than I am.. And more articulate.
But, then most here are...

it's just that sometimes I think I type in code or something..

[Ninsianna]

121. Who is "you guys"?

Are we all not Democrats here?

[sheshe2]

136. Excellent point, Ninsianna.

Almost seems there are sides here.

Me? I am a Democrat.

[Ninsianna]

139. Right?

Though I've just been told by an "old timer" here that there are cliques, and from what I've seen they're not very nice to each other and like to speak in code.

How does one know the "old folk"? Someone with some dancing cat in their sig line just reprimanded me for not knowing who they were. Are there DU celebrities here? (And how does one know who they are?)

I'm a Democrat too, and I thought this was a site for Democrats. Are there some cliques here who are not Dems?

[sheshe2]

143. Hey, you deep breath.

This place has it's characters. Just post as you have been. Not sure what else to say and on an open board one you must be careful. We are in strange times here with Donnie as our 'Resident...unprecedented.

I am a Democrat, always have been.

I like your voice, Ninsianna... Keep talking.

[Ninsianna]

155. Thanks Sheshe!

The clique seemed odd. A total Heathers/Mean Girls vibe.

[pangaia]

189. I am also a democrat. Sometimes we disagree about things.

It's healthy.

Unlike the ratfuckers.

[R B Garr]

159. Ooh, good catch. Who is he speaking for...

[betsuni]

168. Odd when Democrats are referred to as "you guys" or "them" in places for Democrats!

[Ninsianna]

170. Or not so much. Remember how many "Burlingtonians" were online and found to have been

based in Albania?

I'm guessing they're here too.

[pangaia]

191. I hope you are not suggesting I am an Albanian.

closest i have been is umm...Bucharest, Budapest and Milano.
Some of my chinese friends say I must have been chinese in a past life because I like real chinese cuisine so much, and cook sichuan all the time..

russian friends say i have some russian blood because of my love of russian music and culture

hungarian friends same similar things..

and i play zarb and grow ispahan roses does that make me persian? could be...

[pangaia]

190. No it's not odd. We sometimes disagree on things. Fine.

So a friendly little'you guys' is just that.
Please don't read something evil into my comment.

There are people who always piss on bernie, or just don't like him, or disagree with him
And there are people who always piss on hillary, or just don't like her, or disagree with her.
There are people who always take this side or that side, sometimes rather pointedly, sometimes more... well, not so pointedly.

We all vote for democrats, I hope.

Somebody used the word cliques.. I dunno, maybe that's a good word maybe not.
But there are disagreements here, or discussions, or.. differences of opinion.

which is a good thing.

unlike the 30-something% that still support the shithead...

[R B Garr]

220. This is way beyond liking or disliking a particular candidate.

I've seen my party demonized over the most inane things for quite awhile now, and no good has come of it. I'm just glad to see that the majority rejects this inane hostility, as well.

[pangaia]

188. Yes, we are all democrats. Did you read the other part of my post?

[BainsBane]

76. Yet somehow not when the Democrats were writing ACA

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) reminded the progressive media gathered on Capitol Hill today that single-payer health care reform was dead before it started in the Senate.

“It would have had 8 or 10 votes and that’s it,” he said, addressing a topic central in the minds of many who the bloggers and left wing talk show hosts gathered for the 4th annual Senate Democratic Progressive Media Summit in Washington reach everyday.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/sanders-single-payer-never-had-a-chance


But I totally get that making speeches is way more important then actually passing legislation. What elected representatives do doesn't matter. It's what they say that counts.

Naturally the perfect opportunity is not when Democrats controlled congress and the White House, but when the GOP does. But just in case the GOP and the Democrats might think about supporting such a bill, send out an email to supporters declaring legislators from both parties the opposition, despite the fact one of those lawmakers previously dismissed as "the establishment" wrote the bill. Nothing generates coalitions like declarations of enmity, and of course Bernie's history of getting legislation passed speaks for itself.

[beam me up scottie]

79. So you're saying he was pragmatic since he did support it and even added an amendment?

I agree, he realized it wasn't perfect but got on board anyway. He voted for it and worked for something better.

And he's fought like hell to save it from the GOP too.

Glad to see you're behind the good Senator!

Go Bernie, keep up the good fight!

[BainsBane]

144. I support universal healthcare

Not one man's political aspirations. I don't share your approach to politics that puts Sanders, or any member of the political elite, above the citizenry or issues. I think it unfortunate that some have decided that the issue or the bill is secondary to Bernie.

It seems to me if the goal were truly to implement single payer, we would see efforts to build coalitions rather than deepen divides. We would see arguments based on how single payer is beneficial to citizens rather than--yet again--cheerleading for a politician, ignoring the author of the bill and the others who have championed the issue for a very long time. Instead of coalition building, we see declarations of enmity. Because of that, I find it difficult to believe that passing single payer healthcare is the goal at all.

Your comments give yourself away. You don't say "I'm glad you support single payer." You say "I'm glad you support Bernie." You leave no doubt as to your priority. And because so many others share that priority, they will ensure that single payer never develops the broad-based support necessary to become law, at least not in the near term. It cannot until those who claim to support it decide the policy and the citizens are what matter most.

Since I don't live in VT, I will never be called on to support him with my vote at election time, which is the only kind of support appropriate for public officials elected to represent their constituents.

[beam me up scottie]

146. That's nice. I have to do a few chores so I skimmed your post.

I only caught the first part actually but I can imagine the rest.

Probably something about elitism, some not so nice things about Bernie and implications that I worship him - stuff like that, right? Pretty standard fare.

Anywho, I've got to do my rounds as I call them so you have a nice night.

[BainsBane]

156. No, your skimming skills

are sub par. I said nothing about elitism. But I understand you're not interested. It was only about passing single payer healthcare.

[NastyRiffraff]

198. Wow! Your constant, passionate defense of Sanders

is...um...touching. By "touching" I mean really really over the top. I know Sanders is the secular version of the Second Coming, but really!

[beam me up scottie]

203. Aw, I'm glad you're so "touched". You guys know why I do that, right?

Because it provokes such an hilarious reaction. It's an experiment just to see what kind of responses I get. And boy oh boy I am NEVER disappointed.

Thanks for proving my point, and never fear, I'll keep passionately defending Bernie as long as people keep passionately trying to diminish his hard work on our behalf and pretend everything he does has some nefarious motive.



Maybe I'll change it up a little, just to keep things fresh. How's this?:

BERNIE SANDERS totally ROCKS!! He's a TRUE PROGRESSIVE!!

That was a thing of beauty! I love to listen to him speak... so calm and measured. He's focused and on-point.

He's friendly and disarming... but you know he means business. He SHOUTS because he's pasionate. His demeanor and sincerity are what command attention. He doesn't need to rely on distracting gimmicks.

Man, oh man! That was great!

We need more TRUE PROGRESSIVES like Bernie Sanders!

Honest tagod... he makes me PROUD to be a progressive !

[R B Garr]

208. Yet Jake Tapper asked him real questions about why Vermont doesn't have single payer.

Reality is a thing.

[JoeStuckInOH]

211. Huh? He's a US Senator from VT - not the VT Governor or even a VT state legislator...

He doesn't have anything to with Vermont state laws and programs aside from voicing opinions and being an advocate.

What a stupid thing for Jake Tapper to try hang around the neck of a US congressman...

[R B Garr]

212. The question is why does Vermont not have single payer.

Sanders answered Jake, although if was an excuse. He wants it nationally, but can't even get his own state to pass it.

That is only a part of it. More directly, he has criticized other politicians on this issue, so it's hypocritical.

[beam me up scottie]

213. Right? Tapper doesn't know the difference between a US and a state senator?

Politics is hard.

[R B Garr]

221. Bernie seemed to know why Jake Tapper asked him.

We all know why Jake Tapper asked Bernie why Vermont doesn't have single payer.

[seaglass]

248. Ted Kennedy was instrumental in getting "Romneycare" implemented in MA. He was a US Senator, no

reason Bernie couldn't do some work in VT if it was so important.

[NastyRiffraff]

217. Keep it up!!!

If you're very lucky, Bernie Himself will lay his blessed hands on you and say "Well done, O good and faithful servant!"

Provided you donate enough, of course.

[R B Garr]

223. "It's an experiment" At least you admit that you are intentionally trying to

irritate people. Isn't there a word for that type of internet activity??


"Because it provokes"
"It's an experiment"

[betsuni]

224. Heh.

Irritating people doesn't seem like a very interesting hobby. Sad.

[R B Garr]

228. It is sad. Looks desperate, too.

And, of course, it's nothing but divisive. Nothing good has come out of these prolonged attempts to diminish Democrats.

[Lordquinton]

225. Nah, you do that because Bernie is awesome!

A true progressive fighting for us, not interests. Wish we had 50 more like him.

[beam me up scottie]

227. Yes he is! It's weird how praising him gets such an odd response.

I wonder why no one ever complains when other politicians are praised here? Even McCain and other Republicans get all kinds of compliments. So why is praise of Bernie so controversial?

Oh, right, I forgot.

Bernie did a bad bad thing.

[Lordquinton]

235. BMUS, you're the strongest woman on this site

You never stop standing for what you believe in, and I'm proud to call you my friend.

[beam me up scottie]

236. Thank you, my friend.

And the feeling is mutual. I've never seen you back down, no matter how outnumbered you are. And you always keep your sense of humor, not an easy feat.

[Expecting Rain]

87. Promoting it, but he still doesn't have a plan.

That's the point. It's all talk.

[beam me up scottie]

88. It's probably similar to his other Medicare for All bills.

You can Google them if you're curious.

[sheshe2]

141. Medicare for all is not the cure. Some seem to think it is free.

Changes need to be made first. Everyone seems to think it is cheap. It is not. There are base costs`. Deductibles, caps and the donut hole.

I am just entering Medicare. It is not cheap, triple what ACA was. Lost my doctor through misinformation from their office and now on the complicated road to finding a new doctor. I spoke to SHINE twice and they were very helpful...yet lacking. Far more needs to be done to make this work. You seem to think it is easy and cheap and it is not. We have a long row to hoe and anyone saying Medicare for all is the answer, the cheap answer is blowing smoke.

Medicare is all over 65 have. No choice. It needs to be fixed.

[beam me up scottie]

145. Tell that to the 100+ Dems who cosponsored John Conyers house bill.

No one thinks it's "free" or "cheap", that would be naive and I don't think the Dems who support it are naive, do you? The "system" we have now is horrendously expensive and unfair.

I think all options should be on the table so we can discuss the pros and cons of each plan.

What we have now isn't working for all of us. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have employer paid insurance or Medicare, that's why our legislators in the house and Senate keep trying to push this issue. I support their efforts and hope some day one of these bills gets onto the floor.

Bernie is right, try to fix the ACA as much as possible and keep pushing for something better.

[sheshe2]

147. Now it is Conyers bill.

When you have repeatedly said it was Sanders. It is stated that now he is pushing Single Payer? Which is it?

Now you say Bernie wants to fix ACA? Woah.

My head hurts...what is his plan?

[beam me up scottie]

148. You do realize that Conyers is in the house and Bernie's in the Senate, right?

When he was in the house he cosponsored Conyers' bills but once he went to the senate Bernie started writing his own. His MfA bills are different from Conyers' too. Different houses and different bills.

I thought everyone would have been somewhat familiar with Bernie's previous Senate health care bills, they were discussed here at length and compared to the house bills. You can Google them or do a DU search if you're curious. Maybe do a comparison yourself, there are pros and cons to both. I tend to favor Conyers bill but I don't care which one gets people talking as long as the issue is discussed.

I am anxious to see what Bernie may have changed but I guess I'll have to wait a little longer.

Glad I could help.

[sheshe2]

151. Nope.

You also said NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Bernie is right, try to fix the ACA as much as possible and keep pushing for something better.

and

I thought everyone would have been somewhat familiar with Bernie's previous Senate health care bills, they were discussed here at length and compared to the house bills. You can Google them or do a DU search if you're curious. Maybe do a comparison yourself, there are pros and cons to both. I tend to favor Conyers bill but I don't care which one gets people talking as long as the issue is discussed.

So many tears ago it is hard to remember.


He is all over the board.

[beam me up scottie]

152. Well then you should start googling!

[beam me up scottie]

20. No kidding. How is this a bad thing?

[pangaia]

32. 'cause its Bernie. LOL....

[beam me up scottie]

36. Precisely!

[pangaia]

40. A few lurking Wiley Coyotes..

Eh, that's ok....

I just got back from marvao, Portugal where I had some great broiled octopus in local olive oil and garlic,...so.... everything is gonna be awwright

[beam me up scottie]

45. Nooooooo! Poor octo. I love cephalopods!

I'll bet Portugal was incredible, I know a few photographers there - beautiful country and wildlife.

And you're listening to some good tunes I'm sure.

[pangaia]

90. Yeah, I went to hear 'you know who," heh heh... whom we won't mention here..

Chaconne

I know a great photographer in Marvao..

[beam me up scottie]

96. I am so jealous. I'll bet it was sublime...

The photographers I know are conservationists, I'll have to check out Chaconne.

[Nanjeanne]

64. Amazing to see isn't it? Fighting for universal healthcare - oh that Bernie.

[Demsrule86]

166. Because there is no way this goes through...and it risks the ACA which needs help with stabilizing

markets and such...this is akin to repealing Obamacare 50 times... a nowhere bill that achieves nothing.

[QC]

42. Because Bernie did something very, very, very, very, very naughty!

[beam me up scottie]

48. Yes he did! Bad Bernie!

[brush]

60. Because the repugs will never let it get to the floor for a vote.

Dems are the minority party right now and don't have that power so it's like spinning your wheels.

Let's work to gain control of Congress then go all in for single payer.

Otherwise, it's essentially a lot of noise and attention getting.

[beam me up scottie]

68. Keep that powder dry!

[QC]

72. It's like a great man once said:

[beam me up scottie]

74. A wise man indeed!

[R B Garr]

47. It's John Conyers' bill. Looking forward to Bernie explaining that he is endorsing

John Conyers bill, who is a very good, long-time Democrat.

[NurseJackie]

93. How interesting. Good to know.

It wasn't very clear to me at all. I got the impression that it was all his. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[Ninsianna]

97. His name is John Conyers, but I guess giving him credit for his actual bill that he's

actually offered for years, without trying to ensnare personal info from people to tap for money, doesn't count I guess.

[beam me up scottie]

102. Lol!

[Ninsianna]

104. Why are you "loling" at John Conyers?

It's like erasing Democrats of color who walk the walk is hysterically funny or something. Why would that be, I wonder?

[beam me up scottie]

109. I'm LOLing at the idea that Bernie is some sort of EVIL VILLAIN.

without trying to ensnare personal info from people to tap for money

Meanwhile back at Bernie headquarters...

[Ninsianna]

114. so you're loling at something that you and only you created out of whole cloth?

It's nice that you like to laugh at your own thoughts, but erasing John Conyers is still wrong.

[beam me up scottie]

122. Nope, pretty sure this was in your post:

without trying to ensnare personal info from people to tap for money

Yep, just checked and it's still there. So that IS INDEED what I was laughing at.

And since Bernie wrote his own MfA bills in the Senate and they were different from Conyers' it's not really accurate to call this someone else's bill, is it? No one is erasing Conyers work and erasing Bernie Sanders' work would be wrong too.

I specifically mentioned Conyers hard work earlier so it would be silly to claim I tried to erase it:

Yes, just like John Conyers! So I'm glad they haven't given up.

I stand with John Conyers and Bernie Sanders!



https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9403495

So we agree, no one is erasing anyone's work and both men deserve credit for their separate bills, both in Congress and the senate.

[Ninsianna]

163. Has Bernie put foward the bill yet? I'll credit when there is an actual bill.

you do a lot of laughing, but much of what amuses you seems to be something you don't share with others.

So, do you have links to these bills? I'd love to see all the work he did to get others on board, like Conyers did.

I'm glad you agree with yourself, but your mocking emojis did erase the man. I refer only to your posts to me, I cannot be required to read your every post. That seems a bit much ot ask.

We agree that it's a poor show to deny the guy who offered bills and got his colleagues on board credit. Perhaps remember him in future posts, so that he isn't erased?

i look forward to seeing Bernie's plan, I'm really curious how he plans to make this work, and the details he's spent 24 years working on to address the issues with Medicare and how he plans to go about the "HOW". In my view, that's a weakness of his.

[sheshe2]

149. First.

You misquoted and obviously responded to Ninsianna's other post not this one that you are responding to.

Here is the post you are responding to with your misplaced gif.

Ninsianna (279 posts)
104. Why are you "loling" at John Conyers?

It's like erasing Democrats of color who walk the walk is hysterically funny or something. Why would that be, I wonder?

Your post is cruel and uncalled for. Just Stop.

[beam me up scottie]

150. I haven't taken orders since I left the service and I'm not about to start now

And since I directly quoted the other poster and she already admitted she was wrong about the "erasing Conyers" claim your post is both incorrect and a little late.

I was also very specific about what I found funny, that's why I put it in the subject line:

I'm LOLing at the idea that Bernie is some sort of EVIL VILLAIN.

So I will continue to lol at will whenever I find something lol worthy. Like this claim about Bernie trying to scam people because someone asked for signatures to support his bill:

without trying to ensnare personal info from people to tap for money

Yep. Still funny.



Okay I REALLY have to go now, but it's been fun.

[sheshe2]

153. I will not read the whole thread to see what you posted prior to mine.

What I will say is you have a tendency to be cruel and ridicule other posters and it is unnecessary and against DU rules. Please stop. Ninsianna is a new poster at DU they should be welcomed not ridiculed, actually everyone should be treated with a modicum of respect, try it please.

[beam me up scottie]

154. Oh dear, and I was almost out the door too.

I will continue to post as I see fit and laugh when I find something amusing, if you don't like my posts you are free to respond or ignore me. The same goes for any other member. That's how it works. I do not take orders from anyone else and I will not 'stop' posting simply because someone demands it. I've been polite and sweet as maple syrup all throughout this thread. So I'm good, thanks.

This lance corporal did her duty, I'm a civilian now.

[ehrnst]

254. Well, that's usually the reason for "petitions" from orgs

Especially when they call it something like "be a citizen co-sponsor" to imply that their name will be seen by someone other than a database manager.

Not evil, just business as usual among PACS and other orgs. They aren't required to tell you where your name and email actually goes.

Does that surprise you?

[ehrnst]

252. Not successfully. (nt)

[sheshe2]

23. :)

[Donkees]

16. Quoting his e-mail, there needs to be ''an unprecedented organizing and educational campaign''

across the country in order to stand against the lies that will be broadcast against the legislation.

[beam me up scottie]

18. That was easy enough. Thank you!

It's not like he's a retiree sitting at home complaining about stuff on the internet.

Bernie's been pretty busy trying to generate support to save the ACA. I don't think he's had a weekend off in months.

BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S TAKING SO LONG!

HURRY UP BERNIE!

[ehrnst]

253. Does that include fact checking of the legislation?

Because he has not responded positively to anyone who questions his math, or thinks that there are not enough details, even when the ones doing the questioning are independent, non-partisan health policy experts.

I'm concerned that the "educational campaign" will create distrust of neutral policy analysts.

[loyalsister]

50. Maybe the idea is to build early momentum

Momentum that will give people an opportunity to organize, show up and encourage their legislators to sign on and support. And, for groups to build a campaign to pass this bill that is as relentless as opposition to the the repeal effort.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Awesome. Now is the time to strike.

Go Bernie!

[Warren DeMontague]

8. No, I think we should keep our powder dry and take Casterly Rock first.

....Fuck, dude, and you're usually so smart!

[beam me up scottie]

10. Oops, I thought you were talking about this powder:

[Warren DeMontague]

11. It's been such a traumatic few days for mental imagery, with Bannon, et al...

I just don't even want to know what that's a reference to!

[beam me up scottie]

12. Non Newtonian fluids are cool!

The narrator sounds like Baxter from Breaking Bad too.

[pangaia]

34. Or.. MISTER BUBBLE "Keep Dry"

[beam me up scottie]

39. Wow! That brings back memories!

[pangaia]

43. Lazlo Toth forever......

I can;t do pics..

too dumb.. never works..


so--

bubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubble
bubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubble
bubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubblebubble

[beam me up scottie]

52. Found one!

[pangaia]

85. OH MY GODDESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember the room I was in when I first ready that !! Ithaca, NY 1973-4-5?


TOOO MUCH !!!!!!!

Now I can ( I was going to say die, but that's too risky) so go up to bed and get on my Samsung S-something or other Tablet... 1 finger....


MADE MY DAY .

[beam me up scottie]

125. You're welcome! Glad I could find it.

I just got a new phone so my tablet is getting a rest.

Good night, pangaia.

[Warren DeMontague]

164. That stuff just gave me a rash

Like Mr. Toth, I too may have been doing it wrong!

[beam me up scottie]

167. At least you didn't have to worry about tentacles back then!

I just heard that people are into that stuff but it's not my thing. Some people have all the fun.

[Warren DeMontague]

179. and here, I thought HP Lovecraft just made printers!

[beam me up scottie]

180. He was diabolical enough to design them. No tentacles required.

[ehrnst]

255. 14th time's a charm! (nt)

[leftstreet]

7. DURec

[Weekend Warrior]

9. K&R nt

[emulatorloo]

14. K&R

[BainsBane]

21. i'm glad he's decided to support Conyer's bill.

Conyers has introduced that legislation every year for a long time now.

I do think it unfortunate that Sanders started this push by sending out this email. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9399668

Passing legislation requires building coalitions, and when you start by denouncing virtually everyone who will vote on the bill, it doesn't bode well for its success. Besides, that bill is authored by a long-serving Democrat, the type of Democrat he has previously called establishment. Why should Conyers and the many other Democrats who support his bill constitute the opposition?

I have to question what the goal is here.

[sheshe2]

27. Me too, Lots of questions.

[Fresh_Start]

28. +1000000 nt

nt

[leftofcool]

57. Something tells me not too many "established" Democrats will get on board for this.

But I do wish Bernie luck.

[nini]

81. How can that be true since Bernie invented the idea?

//sarcasm in case that's not obvious

[brooklynite]

31. Meh...

...where's the compelling argument to change the minds of people who DON'T support single-payer? A feel-good online petition for people who already support it will achieve nothing.

[Trial_By_Fire]

37. You don't support single-payer healthcare?

Is that what you are saying?

[brooklynite]

41. I'm saying Bernie Sanders isn't "working" to pass it...

[joeybee12]

119. Of course he isnt

Work is. not what Bernie does best. Telling everyone how right he is is something he excels at

[leftofcool]

38. Good question

[Snackshack]

53. Thank you!

Bernie!

[chwaliszewski]

58. Thank you, Bernie!

[LittleGirl]

63. Go Bernie! Eom

[mountain grammy]

70. Go Bernie!

Still getting the message out, still packing in the crowds! Most admired politician in America.. there's a reason for that!

[beam me up scottie]

71. Yes! Hey mountain grammy!

Glad to see you again!

[mountain grammy]

89. Good to see you too, BMUS

[Sgent]

73. What's his address again?

I've got some special unicorns who fart rainbows all ready to send him.

Of course, had you spent a month campaigning for Hillary we may have elected her, and then I might not be facing the loss of health insurance I am now.

[leftofcool]

75. LOL

[George II]

83. It's at the bottom of every page on that website linked in Post #3 above:

FRIENDS OF BERNIE SANDERS
PO BOX 391
BURLINGTON, VT 05402

(his official FEC registered campaign committee)

[Ninsianna]

101. Do not worry. The senate clearly has the numbers and in the frame of mind

to pass this very special bill. You'll be getting single payer this very month! Thanks be to Bernie!

If only he had discovered this magical ability to make things happen despite the Republicans any time in the past 24 (or however many) years, we'd all have had some form of Single Payer (which has never been specified) and you'd only have to worry about coming up with the supplemental insurance that Medicare requires now, since it doesn't cover the full cost of anything for the limited population it serves at the moment.

[leftofcool]

107. Oh I can tell you stories about Medicare

Getting right down to it, it really doesn't pay as much as 80%. Does not pay for any drugs unless you have plan D, does not pay for blood tests, does not pay for vision care, does not pay for dental care, only pays 30 days for nursing home care, basically, it is shit health care. Not to mention, if your retirement income is a bit higher than poor to lower middle class, it costs a fortune. My medicare is 300 per month and my husband's is 300 per month. That is 600 per month for something that doesn't really pay all that much. Imagine what that would cost if you have a couple of kids. I really hope that single payer works out for everyone.

[Ninsianna]

172. That was my understanding of Medicare.

Do congress people understand what medicare is and how it differs from the health care plans they enjoy?

And that's basically a premium people are being charged. Single payer is not "Medicare for all" then, is it?

[lunamagica]

169. LOL! Welcome to DU Ninsianna! Keep on posting. I kove your posts!

[Ninsianna]

174. Well thank you lunamagica!

It's nice to see that there are people who aren't all tentacle happy :-D

(Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

[ProfessorPlum]

194. Did you also know that Sanders isn't a Democrat?

And that he is treated like a god by some people around here?

[beam me up scottie]

207. ZOMG WTF BBQ? NOT A DEMOCRAT?

WHY haven't I heard this before?



And a GOD you say? Would that be like when people post gushing praise about Hillary, Obama, Al Franken or other popular liberals? Because we see a lot of that and no one seems to mind. It's actually rather "touching" I've been told.

Excellent observations and well played as usual, ProfessorPlum!

[ProfessorPlum]

218. Thank you

It's shocking, I know

[beam me up scottie]

230. It would be funny if it wasn't so obvious.

Oh, what am I saying, it's still hillarious.

[R B Garr]

231. LOL

Sorry to hear about your health insurance, though. Hard to believe some people on this thread are laughing at that harsh reality you face. I agree with you about the campaigning.

[JCanete]

247. should we be campaigning on things the GOP will actually pass? WTF would that be at this point in

time that would be good for any non millionaire? On the other hand, single payer isn't an impracticality, only a political impossibility, like every other fucking thing that is good right now. The public actually likes the idea of single payer. Why not propose it and make the GOP the enemy of it?

[riderinthestorm]

78. Thanks for this donkees! K&R! nt

[Not Ruth]

127. Single Payer it is about time

[cilla4progress]

129. I'm in

ALL IN!!

[SaschaHM]

140. Rallying around a concept without proposing an effective bill just failed hard for the GOP....

I don't see why this bill won't result in a similar fate for the Dems as well...

What if the bill is terrible? Yes, there are many terrible ways to go about implementing Single Payer. There are terrible ways for implementing a lot of things that aren't single payer. Is Bernie going to disavow it or is the Bernie Sander's Medicare for All Health Care Bill going to become the new litmus test for Dem Candidates?

If he's taking a page out of their playbook and selling goods before he can deliver them, he needs to take the other page about delaying an actual product until it can be delivered.

[Demsrule86]

165. No actually not. The GOP bill made it to the floor, and the GOP lost by only three votes.

This bill won't make it to the floor and will never be voted on. It will merely be used by the GOP as evidence that we know the ACA is a bad bill and failing, and thus we are going for 'socialized medicine'. And this shifts the blame from the GOP to us if the ACA blows up because we were to busy touting single payer to fix it. Sen. Sanders has misjudged the situation; he will get nothing and risk 2018 and 2020.

[ProfessorPlum]

195. Did you know that Sanders is also not a Democrat?

Do you have any evidence one way or the other about the implementation, or are you just warning us all, generally, that things we don't know anything about could very well suck? 'Cause I'm waaay ahead of you.

[dchill]

158. K&R.

[Demsrule86]

162. And this is a great big waste of time...why not try to stabilize the markets?

[JCanete]

186. what is a waste of time about it? Can you actually think of any legislation that would be good in

any way, still getting passed in this Senate? Why not at least promote the ideal, since those middling measures aren't going anywhere anyway?

[Fresh_Start]

234. why waste time on an ideal with has 0% chance of moving forward

rather than find a compromise somewhere which helps living people now

[JCanete]

241. can you imagine a compromise that is actually a possibility with the GOP? Whatever that is, we are

Last edited Thu Aug 3, 2017, 01:55 AM - Edit history (3)

losing something and gaining nothing. Anything good has a 0% chance of passing, but if we don't buckle, and instead, campaign for ideas that might actually inspire the American people after we've gotten past the alienness and unfamiliarity said ideas, then maybe we're helping to build a demand for those ideas. At this point single payer polls pretty damn well. We have no reason to not promote it while making the Republicans the party of obstruction and regressiveness in the wake of our popular plan.

We have no leverage to make political compromises. The GOP isn't interested in giving anything to get anything. So we should be fighting and winning the optics war.

[Fresh_Start]

249. yes, we will be able to make progress w incrementalism

maybe they will be tiny steps but better than nothing.
The GOP is is disarray on healthcare...they need to deliver something so there is opportunity for compromise.

[JCanete]

250. There is no incentive for the GOP to compromise whatsoever. We have offered nothing for them

to fear except for incrementalism. So, assuming we do regain power, we can run on incrementalism and they can oppose it, and assuming we have enough party line votes we can pass the incrementalism. Yay! Of course, since we can't get GOP votes anyway, shooting for that middle ground is aiming tragically low. But since we don't proffer up an alternative that would really scare these fuckers and their donors, there is no political win they can achieve by cooperating with Dems. They aren't staving off something far more progressive by compromising, and they are quite possibly losing a big chunk of their base(likely to a primary challenger) by doing so. Since either way, the people who pull their strings stand to lose only incrementally, I'm not sure what the motivation for doing this would be.

[ehrnst]

256. So you're saying it's futile. (nt)

[JCanete]

258. I'm saying the point is to win over the american public, not republican legislators. Get the public

to really want something and they will start to demand it from their representatives, and to vote for the candidates or incumbents who can tell which way the wind is blowing. Offering "unicorns" is how to do that. They aren't fantasies as a condition of being technically infeasible. They can all actually be paid for. they are fantasies because not enough people believe in them yet.

But this is important...they are also not bribes that serve no long-term purpose. Those proposals, enacted, would actually improve upon American infrastructure, from a more educated populace through free higher-education, to a far healthier workforce that would be more productive, and at the same time, more free from the burden of our current healthcare system and the debt accrued by illness to start their own businesses...generate competition, new ideas...etc.

[ehrnst]

259. Unicorns that health policy experts say won't work?

And calling anyone who points that out a "BERNIE HATER" or "corporate shill"?

Remember what happened after Obama said, "You can keep your doctor?" Once people found that unicorn wasn't a guarantee, it was used as ammunition to say he lied, and would continue to lie.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

[JCanete]

260. wow, there are some health policy experts who say it won't work? Color me surprised.

Do all of them say that or just the ones you agree with?

Yes, I do remember what happened with that claim by Obama. Are you suggesting that we made a mistake trying to push Obamacare even though we KNEW that there would be missteps and that those would be pounced on by the well funded machine that is our corporate media and the GOP?

If we used that as a reason to never do, we wouldn't pass anything. We forged ahead with Obamacare in-spite of that. Where we faltered...where we sucked...is that Obama stopped using the bully-pulpit to champion its achievements and blame the republicans on obstructing any improvements on its shortcomings, and too many Democrats ran away from him and Obamacare in order to try to save their weak necks in the coming midterms. A lot of good that did us.

And yet we still have Obamacare. People mostly like it as flawed as it still is. Republicans can't get their shit together to repeal it. We should have made it better, more unassailable, but then some of our own dems wouldn't have voted for it. That's the problem.

[ehrnst]

261. And here we go....

I'm talking about non-partisan, independent health care analysts. I agree with them on health care policy for the same reason that I agree with the conclusions of independent non-partisan climate scientists on climate change - they know what the hell they are talking about, more so than I do, and certainly more than the general public, who gets easily distracted by propaganda and unicorns.

Independent health policy analysts also say that access to affordable, legal abortion is vital to public health. I distrust the judgment of any politician who contradicts the judgement of those experts when making health care policy and legislation on reproductive health.

No, the claim made by Obama has nothing to do with the push for the ACA. It was a promise that he should not have made, because it wasn't true, and it was used as ammunition against any and all things that he was trying to accomplish, the ACA included. Is that clearer?

I also don't know what you are talking about when you say that "Obama stopped using the bully-pulpit to champion its achievements."

[Warren DeMontague]

181. Kick for Senator Bernie Sanders!

Fighting for what's right!

[ProfessorPlum]

196. Way to go, Sanders

Once we finally have single payer in this country, we will all be amazed at how stupid we were for not getting it before. And the time is right, now, when people are collectively breathing a sigh of relief following how close we came to losing the pre-existing conditions, etc.

[Agschmid]

206. This whole thread has become a shit show.

It's becoming really clear (at least to me) that 2016 did a lot of harm to the party, and the more I see shit like this the more I realize 2018 is going to be an uphill battle.

Maybe everyone can stop waving their dicks around trying to see who is bigger at some point soon. 🙄

[ProfessorPlum]

219. I think most of the party is just fine

But there certainly are a lot of people on DU who make a habit of emphasizing our differences.

[Agschmid]

222. Yup.

[Fresh_Start]

226. honestly think the only chance we have is that Bernie bows out entirely

Clinton has already bowed out otherwise I'd include her in needing to bow out.

[beam me up scottie]

229. Why should Bernie retire? He's the most popular senator.

Shouldn't we leave that up to the voters in Vermont?

[Fresh_Start]

232. I didn't mean bow out of being the senator from Vermont

I meant bow out from being a candidate for president in 2020

[George II]

237. Gotta be careful, one's own words can easily be twisted around here and used against oneself.

[ehrnst]

257. True, but hopefully he'll be forthcoming about his melanoma.

And keep Vermont voters in the loop when he has biopsies and such.

[R B Garr]

233. Sounds very wise. The talking points have been rejected by voters

many times. That is reality. It must have sounded divisive to them, as well.

[demmiblue]

238. That is what ignore is for.

It is the same people that are involved in the drama over and over and over again. I think that it actually helps to see DU more accurately, if that makes sense.

Shoot, I can only see a quarter of the responses in this thread.

[Agschmid]

239. I don't use the feature, I'd rather see the craziness.

[demmiblue]

240. Lol!

Well, I bet you go through a lot of and while doing one or more of these !

[Agschmid]

245. Indeed...

[Agschmid]

243. Thanks for the link.

[R B Garr]

246. You're welcome.