How about Some Public Safety Requirements for Demonstration Permits?

[MineralMan]

The Charlottesville fiasco began with racist nazi extremists actually getting a permit for a demonstration. Then, on the day of that demonstration, they showed up armed to the teeth and carrying baseball bats, shields and other paraphernalia of a warlike nature. They expected and probably wanted a violent confrontation with counter protesters.

So, why are there no rules regarding things like this as conditions on permits issued by cities? Such rules are in place in places like DC, where demonstrations and protests are a common thing. Participants are often restricted as to what items they may bring with them, including even sticks with signs on them, since those sticks could be used as weapons.

Had rules against weapons been a part of the permitting process, the police in Charlottesville could have turned the protesters back at the entrance of the park where they had a permit to assemble and demonstrate. Apparently, no such rules were part of the permitting process, though, and the entire thing turned out to be a massive clusterfuck.

Here in St. Paul, MN, where I live, you can get a permit for a gathering in the public parks and other public places by applying for one and paying a modest fee. The permit application has a long list of rules on it. They include things like a prohibition on alcoholic beverages, fires, and other things you are not allowed to do at the location. Those are the rules. If you want to use the facilities, you have to agree to those rules.

Perhaps some planning is in order in places like Charlottesville before any further permits are granted. Perhaps some rules need to be set by that city and others.

[shanny]

1. I agree.

There should be rules. Problem would be uniform rules, and actual enforcement. I don't know what was up with the local police and National Guard in this instance--it seemed they were outgunned or sympathetic or ?--but equal protection is the issue, and brown / black / liberal people are not receiving it.

[MineralMan]

2. I think the problem in Charlottesville started due to a false expectation

of a peaceful event, with the group who obtained a permit following the rules. For example, they were supposed to all come in through one entrance, which is where the police expected them. Instead, they came into the park from all directions, which interfered with the crowd control plans that were in place.

I think the Charlottesville Police Chief was naive about these nazi white supremacists. I'm not sure why that naivete existed, but I think it did.

As for rules, they can be on the permit application, with a signature box that says that the applicant has read the rules and will comply with them. If rules are not observed, the permit is void and the police can refuse entrance. That's how it's commonly done, but it does require clearly stated rules and plans to enforce them. Such did not appear to be in place in Charlottesville.

[MineralMan]

3. Here are the rules in Charlottesville, VA for events and demonstrations

http://www.charlottesville.org/home/showdocument?id=5160

A permit is required, and there are various rules, but no rules prohibiting weapons or any other such thing. The rules document is a separate document from the permit application.

Nothing in the rules actually prohibits any of the activities or arms brought to that park by the white supremacist organizers of the demonstration. Had there been such rules, there would have been some way to void the permit by the police. Without such rules, the permit could not be cancelled.

This is a major flaw in that city's process for issuing permits for demostrations.

[forgotmylogin]

4. Candles, yes; torches, no.

Display of weapons is subject to having your permit pulled and being evicted immediately.

[aikoaiko]

5. On one hand the violent, hateful RWers are blaming police and I blame the RWS

But on the other hand, it does appear that the police woefully underprepared and understaffed.

Safety officials need to be held accountable for their decisions, even if the blame for the violence resides with the "United Right"