They want confrontation. What if we don't play?

[trof]

The WS WANT confrontation.
That's what gets them the publicity.
What if we didn't play?
What if we didn't give them what they want?

Just put the word out to not be there.
Let them march around with their tiki torches and chant and rant in a deserted area.
What do you think?

[Wounded Bear]

1. I think they would claim victory...

and that they intimidated all the "snowflakes."

[trof]

6. Victory over...what?

Nobody?

[Adrahil]

30. They have been winning so far.

With Trump and Bannon in the WH, they are winning.

Frankly, I think they overplaying their hand. They are not yet secure. Confrontations like this show the nation and the world what these people are.

If they are not confronted, it may be too late by the time we DO confront them. It CAN happen here.

My daughter said this to me the other day...

"I don't want to be like OfFred before. I want to do something NOW, while I still can."

[lapfog_1]

2. With lots of camera to later publish the names

of these assholes... and get them fired from their jobs (if they have one).

[ProgressiveValue]

3. They need to be counter protested.

They want to be attacked so they can have an excuse to shoot someone. That's easy, counter protest peacefully and make sure they are outted on social media.

[LisaM]

4. I have a lot of feelings roiling around right now. I can't condone violence.

But I can't stomach white supremacists, either. I'm angry, angry, angry.,

But I don't like that there are a lot of people on this website, right now, who seem to really be ready for violence. It can't be that way.

[bdamomma]

14. those of us who are on the

left or more diverse people are not going to be violent, violence begets more violence.

We are dealing with some sick a$$ people plus we have a fascist don the con who won't call them domestic terrorists.

[Adrahil]

32. I get where you are coming from....

But I also know that ultimately, if you are unwilling to fight when all else has failed, you have to willing to accept whatever they impose. Are you willing to do that?

[LisaM]

35. Fighting can take many forms.

I stand up for what I believe in.

I've been assaulted on the streets in Seattle and my response isn't to go punch all men in the face.

[Adrahil]

36. Well, I wish you good luck.

It's a noble effort.

But history tells us what happens if the Nazis win.

[Binkie The Clown]

5. If we don't play, they march in and take over. First they came for the blacks,... n/t

[trof]

7. What, exactly, will they take over?

A deserted park?
For an hour, if that long.
With no one to fight they'll get bored and go home.
There's still a city government, and citizens, so I don't see them 'taking over' anything.

[Binkie The Clown]

10. The government. Starting with the White House...

and when they see no resistance, everything in their path. Local government, state government, federal government. They will see no resistance along the way, so they will just keep rolling along.

All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. I'm sorry, but I do not condone doing NOTHING in the face of creeping evil.

[metalbot]

22. False choice

You're basically saying "either you confront fascists every time they congregate" or you "allow them to take over the government".

The left _consistently_ rises to the bait. We do it so well that I'm fairly sure that there are playbooks written on how to exploit it.

<carefully puts on right wing troll hat>

1. Invite ridiculously inflammatory speaker/put on inflammatory event that is so over the top that it's going to attract at most a handful of actual supportive attendees
2. Make sure event is well publicized to make sure that the left knows to protest
3. Push ahead with event despite well announced protest.
4. Local government is forced to either allow the event and appear to support racism/homophobia/nazis or to face actual real 1st amendment challenges in court.
5. Enjoy the mayhem of an oversized response by the left. Bonus: sometimes left wing protesters will get caught on camera doing things like smashing people with bike locks.
6. Construct a narrative about how the "liberals" hate free speech, and can't tolerate any dissent, and are no better than the communists, because you know who else didn't allow dissent? Communists.
7. Wait 4-6 weeks
8. See step 1.

</removes hat>

[Binkie The Clown]

24. There is certainly no shortage of DU people calling other DU people wrong for disagreeing. n/t

[pangaia]

31. What, exactly, will they take over?

The entire freakin' country.

The BIG ISSUE is not so much them as the fact that they have the support of the U S government !!!!

Republicans !

[Adrahil]

33. I'm sure there were people saying something similar in 1931 Germany. NT

[regnaD kciN]

8. Exactly...

If we don't confront them, they become the dominant story, and the media (which always falls for "the next big thing" ) starts skewing in their direction. Soon, they control the country's narrative.

The suggestion to stand aside is comparable to the advice given to countless children over the years of "just ignore that bully and he'll stop bothering you." Hint: it NEVER works.

[GaYellowDawg]

13. That is EXACTLY right.

Bullies (and fascists) never go away when you ignore them. The way to get rid of a bully is to.hurt them. Badly. Make them never dare to bully you again. The way to handle fascists is to paint the streets red with their blood. Because if it's not their blood, it'll be yours and mine.

[world wide wally]

9. What if it was your hometown?

[trof]

21. Really, what are they gonna do?

We have a 3 or 4 acre 'Heritage Park' with a carillon bell tower and a bandstand.
It's a small town (pop. 18,000) in coastal Alabama.
There's a rumor that we have a local klan group, but I don't hear anything from them.
If it's the 'invisible empire', then they have achieved their goal.

So what if a few dozen or even a few hundred decided to come hold a torchlight parade around the park and a rally at the bandstand?
They'd have to get a permit from our chief of police.
And agree to certain restrictions and rules.
I know the chief, and if they failed to get the required permit he would be very unhappy.

So they could march around the place till they got tired of it.
If you supported them, you could go watch and applaud or even march around with them.

If you were opposed to them you could just stay home and watch "Game of Thrones".

And maybe the local TV stations would cover it.

But if there is no OPPOSITION, then there's not really a story here.
They DEPEND on opposition to give their 'cause' a rasion d'etre.

I do believe that this strategy is worth a try at least once.
Remember the old Viet Nam slogan "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

[pangaia]

27. For argument's sake,,

The what happens when they realize they can do whatever they wish and take over the town government, schools,...?

[David__77]

11. If they come to my area, I'll be out in opposition to them.

It was that way way back when I was a teenager, and it's that way now, and it will be that way in the future, should they come.

[speaktruthtopower]

12. Reciprocal violence is a bad idea....

and so are counter-protesters with weapons and masks. Don't lose the moral high ground.

[Expecting Rain]

15. Violent counterdemonstrations feed the Nazis

It is what they want. They'd be so bummed if they came to cause trouble and nobody showed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. Then people die.

[Quixote1818]

17. I think the publicity has damaged their cause

They came to a town that didn't want them there and the town fought back. They were not expecting that. Now people are losing their jobs, CEO's are condemning Trump, most of the country is condemning Trump and them. They fucked up.

These are Nazi's, you can't take the side of Nazi's in the USA period! Even Fox News is melting down. They don't know how to handle this.

In Germany people did nothing and look what happened. You have to stand up to these fuck faces! However, I would suggest the counter protesters not start any violence. Just protest peacefully.

Lets not forget that they were all over the news carrying their torches before any counter protesters were involved. They already had the attention of the media. You would have to get the media to not cover their protests to take away any attention on them.

[leftstreet]

18. Which side was armed in Charlottesville?

The moment anti-racist protestors gather, the right starts screaming about violence

It doesn't matter what peaceful protestors do, the right will blame them

[TeamPooka]

19. Every time 100 of them assemble 5000 of us need to confront them. If they turn violent

then we defend ourselves.
They need to find out there are more of us than them, we will not tolerate their plans and agendas, and we say NOT HERE and NEVER AGAIN!

[Squinch]

38. This. Except the message would be stronger if we, in our huge numbers, did NOT defend ourselves.

I know that sounds nuts, but it is the thing that always works to end violent bigotry. And nothing else does.

[TeamPooka]

41. We cannot allow them to attack and win. SelfDefense is mandatory or they will claim victory

We will not be their victims, this time.

[Squinch]

42. Huge numbers and nonviolence. As we have been taught by Dr. King and Ghandi.

It is the only thing that works. And yes, it is harder than defending ourselves.

[Coventina]

20. Silence means approval.

Also, to borrow from ACT UP: Silence = Death

I, for one, am not going to go quietly!!!!

[oasis]

23. Large numbers of the clergy can help out by joining the ranks

of the counter protesters. It will also be a deterrent to any violent acts by our side.

[Meowmee]

25. It's worth a try

I'm not saying completely stop standing up to them and condemning them. But it would be worth a try and maybe even better to ignore most of their silly demonstrations. They shouldn't be getting permits to demonstrate at all. Let them demonstrate at their own house/town whatever. It will hopefully show how cowardly, pathetic and weak they really are.

[Skittles]

26. because history shows they don't just go away

http://gothamist.com/2017/08/14/nazi_rally_history_msg_nyc.php

[Atticus]

28. Silence equals Complicity. What you suggest is surrender, however you slice it. nt

[Beearewhyain]

29. Vileness unanswered is vileness multiplied n/t

[Weekend Warrior]

34. Then they will start feeling more comfortable in public.

More minorities in the areas they march will be beaten, if not killed. They will become more normalized which is not happening now.

The publicicity doesn't seem to be going all that well for them.

It does need to be intelligent confrontation. People confronting them need to be prepared to take beatings without defending themselves if they are going to confront them. Few images through history have been more powerful in the civil rights movement.

[L. Coyote]

37. "Barack Obama is to blame" - They are brainwashed. Doesn't matter what you do, they are brainwashed.

It's like being hypnotized at a sideshow, you do what the hypnontist tells you no matter how ridiculous because, well, you ARE hypnotized.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/15/16148144/alabama-conservatives-on-charlottesville

DECATUR, Alabama — Several Alabama voters blame President Barack Obama for the white supremacist violence in Charlottesville this weekend because, they say, he sowed division in American politics.

Attendees at a rally for Rep. Mo Brooks, a conservative House Republican running for Senate, in Decatur on Monday said they were confident that philanthropist George Soros was bankrolling both sides of this weekend's violent clashes.

And on conservative Alabama talk radio, Black Lives Matter activists quickly emerged as a top culprit in the bloodshed. Callers, citing Facebook posts, claimed that BLM protesters had thrown bricks at the car that then hit and killed Heather Heyer.

“There’s a lot of wrong on both sides, and unfortunately all the liberal media talks about is the wrong on one side,” said Tom Cowles, 61, a retired engineer from a wealthy section of northeast Alabama.

On Tuesday, I talked to a few dozen people at three campaign events for three conservative Senate candidates about Charlottesville. I also listened for three hours to 101.1 FM Yellowhammer News, a conservative talk radio station in Alabama. While nearly all decried the acts of violence and said they rejected white hate groups, the Alabama conservatives also blamed the mainstream media for ignoring the violence of the left, argued that the Ku Klux Klan was originally an organization of the left, and complained about Black Lives Matter.

I recorded our conversations; the transcripts of their answers are below. ...............

[Squinch]

39. As TeamPooka says, we show up only 10x more of us. But then we adhere to a strict

nonviolence.

We know what to do. We know how to end this. We have been taught by Dr. King. The hard thing is actually doing it.

[Blindingly apparent]

40. I think if cities were smart

They would schedule a family and community fun festival on the opposite side of town. Free hotdogs and entertainment. Get all the churches, local businesses and radio stations participating. Give away 'must be present to win' prizes. Have bake sales, pie-eating contest, music/karaoke, school band playing. Have kidnergardeners sing 'you are my sunshine' maybe the third-graders could recite the Gettysburg Address. Do everything to atttract a large crowd and the news people.

make the Nazis little March completely irrelevant.