Why Black Women Are Protesting A Statue Of This Famed Gynecologist

[sheshe2]

J. Marion Sims, the “father of modern gynecology,” has a disturbing history.

The history of reproductive health care in the U.S. is fraught with racism, as white women’s reproductive health care access came at the cost of black and brown women’s lives. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, was a known eugenicist; the earliest forms of birth control were tested on Puerto Rican women, and black slaves were routinely purchased or rented by medical professionals to be tested on. 


The Black Youth Project 100, an activist group founded in 2013, staged a protest against the statue of J. Marion Sims outside the New York Academy of Medicine on August 19. They photographed their protest in a now-viral Facebook post in which they explain the reason they are calling for the statue’s removal. 

“J. Marion Sims was a gynecologist in the 1800s who purchased Black women slaves and used them as guinea pigs for his untested surgical experiments,” they wrote. “He repeatedly performed genital surgery on Black women WITHOUT ANESTHESIA because according to him, ‘Black women don’t feel pain.’” (See the striking protest and read the whole post below.)



snip/


“We cannot get over our history of white supremacy until we acknowledge it,” she says in the video.

“When we say that this country and its institutions are literally built on the bodies of black people, we’re not exaggerating, and we’re not lying.” 

Read More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-black-women-are-protesting-a-statue-of-this-famed-gynecologist_us_599adb63e4b0e8cc855ec8c7?section=us_women


Take them down. It is past time. Honor women of color. Honor Women. Take Them down.

[riversedge]

1. At the very leasts.. move it to a medical museum

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

2. This.

Exactly.

[Stellar]

60. Only if they will have a plaque explaining the truth about him.

History needs to know that he was a butcher to his patients while learning his skill.

[uppityperson]

65. ++++++++

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. I support their action and taking down the statue.

[iluvtennis]

23. And so do I take it down. First black folks are inhuman and therefore can be owned property, and..

now black women don't feel pain. OMG, we are all HUMAN and we all have red blood. Take the damn statue down

[calimary]

38. YES. Take that damn abomination of a statue DOWN.

"Black women don't feel pain?" Are you fucking KIDDING me???????

[sheshe2]

49. Yes, calimary.

Take it down. Take it down now.

[brush]

4. The white supremacist bastard was so smart (not) that he thought black women couldn't feel pain.

It's just unbelievable that there is a statue for such a racist butcher who operated on his victims with no anesthesia.

[tblue37]

6. When he heard their screams he would have realized that they felt pain. He either

didn't care or actually liked hurting them. Some monsters enjoy torturing others.

[brush]

10. Yes. I'd go with "didn't care".

[zentrum]

17. He must have liked it.

It goes beyond "not caring".

I'm speechless with rage and sadness over this.

[Ninsianna]

55. He had access to anesthesia, but didn't bother to use it.

[sheshe2]

9. I can't imagine the pain they suffered.

[Me.]

24. Makes Me Sick To My Stomach

What's the difference between him and Mengele

[dalton99a]

5. There are other statues of him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Marion_Sims#Legacy_and_honors

[sheshe2]

50. They all need to come down.

[AngryAmish]

7. 'Black women dont feel pain.

That is more or less the history and current events in America.

[FLPanhandle]

8. Be aware of the medical practices of that time period

According to Wikipedia between 1845 and 1849, Sims experimented by surgery on 12 enslaved women with fistulas.

Note: the first successful use of anesthesia was by Dr. Morton, he and renowned surgeon at Massachusetts General Hospital, John Collins Warren (1778-1856) made history on October 16, 1846 with the first successful surgical procedure performed with anesthesia.

In the link: According to Sims, anesthesia was not yet fully accepted into surgical practice and he was unaware of the possibility of the use of diethyl ether at the time. He did administer opium to the women after their surgery, which was accepted therapeutic practice of the day.

I wouldn't have wanted to have any surgery back then.

[trof]

11. This hits a little close to home.

A close family friend and "uncle" when I was a kid in the 40s was Dr. Seale Harris, MD. You never heard of him, but he was kind of a big deal back then.

"Seale Harris (March 13, 1870 – March 17, 1957) was an American physician and researcher born in Cedartown, Georgia. He was nicknamed "the Benjamin Franklin of Medicine" by contemporaries for his leadership and writing on a wide range of medical and political topics.

Dr. Harris' most celebrated accomplishments were his 1924 hypothesis of hyperinsulinism as a cause of spontaneous hypoglycemia."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seale_Harris

Among his many other accomplishments he wrote a few books and one was titled "Banting's Miracle: The Story of the Discoverer of Insulin"
Seale was a close friend of Sir Frederick Banting and worked with him.

Seale also wrote "Woman's Surgeon: The Life Story of J. Marion Sims".
I used to have an autographed copy of both books but they somehow went missing in a move or whatever.

Anyway...should we judge people who lived 150 years ago by current mores, morals, and standards?

Or should we judge them by the prevailing 'standards' when they lived.
To me, it seems a bit unfair to judge Sims by today's moral yardstick.

What do you think?

[sheshe2]

12. I think that purchasing another human being was as wrong then as it would be today.

I think using women as a lab animals and operating on them without anesthesia, cutting into their bodies with a scalpel was an outrage then. You seem to forgive the buying and selling of humans, ie slavery, as just a norm for the "prevailing standards" of that era. Even after the Emancipation Proclamation that said slavery was wrong, WHICH WAS THE "PREVAILING STANDARDS"...the South Re-Enslaved freemen, they bought and sold bodies, beat them, worked them to death and hung them on a whim. Then do you brush aside what Nazi Germany did to the Jews as well? It was after all the "prevailing standard" at that time. It was as wrong then, and many of us knew that, and it would be wrong today.

What is unfair is people were enslaved, treated like cattle and murdered by the thousands.

IMHO, our morals and standards today could use some work as well. As a nation we still treat minorities as cattle. So I really don't think we have come that far and under trump are regressing at a rapid pace.

[sheshe2]

31. Actually we had a Civil War that said this was not acceptable.

Poster above added this...

Mosby (7,795 posts)
19. I found this about him

The So-Called “Father of Modern Gynecology” Actually Tortured Slaves, Killed Babies, Says Professor

This is the tale of two physicians whose lives in some respects are eerily similar. Both were born in Lancaster County, South Carolina in the early 1800s. Both attended Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia, PA. Both practiced gynecology, and both are remembered for their work with enslaved African women. This is largely where the similarities end. The remainder of the tale shows two physicians in stark contrast.

The Contrast. The first physician is renowned as a surgical genius and is regarded as the father of modern gynecology. He served as president of the American Medical Association, the International Medical Congress and the American Gynecological Society. He is honored by having his name placed on hospitals, dormitories, and endowed chairs. A monument is erected in his honor on the State House grounds in Columbia, SC. The monument reads, “He founded the science of gynecology was honored in all lands and died with the benediction of mankind. The first surgeon of the ages in ministry to women, treating alike empress and slave.”

By contrast, the second physician is considered by many to be more of a butcher than a surgeon. He never completed his studies at Jefferson Medical College. In his incompetence, he killed his first patient. According to his own journal, “When I arrived I found a child about eighteen months old, very much emaciated, who had what we would call the summer complaint, or chronic diarrhea. I examined the child minutely from head to foot. I looked at its gums, and as I always carried a lancet with me and had surgical propensities, as soon as I saw some swelling of the gums I at once took out my lancet and cut the gums down to the teeth. This was good so far as it went. But, when it came time to making up a prescription, I had no more ideas of what ailed the child, or what to do for it, than if I had never studied medicine.” He killed his second patient (another infant) in a similar manner. After the death of his second patient he fled South Carolina, and moved to Alabama where he began to abuse African women and babies in the name of “medical practice.” He was known to use a shoemaker’s awl to pry the bones of African infant skulls into “proper alignment.” He was known to conduct surgery on the genitalia of African women without using anesthesia.

The Shocking Truth. If you are not familiar with this story, then it may come as a shock that these physicians are in fact the same person: J. Marion Sims. By any objective account J. Marion Sims was a butcher. He performed the most horrific, acts of barbarism on African people. He built a makeshift 16-bed “hospital” to house the slaves that he used as experimental subjects. He operated on one enslaved African woman, named Anarcha, over 30 times. Although Sims never used anesthesia prior to cutting on these women, he often gave them opium following the procedures. After being drugged on opium, they moved very little, which aided their recovery. Sims often made a public spectacle of cutting on these women and did so as demonstrations for other physicians. The other physicians would frequently be called upon to hold the women down as they writhed in pain. On one occasion the physicians observing left the procedure as the cries from the woman being cut upon were so dreadful.

http://naturallymoi.com/2013/09/the-so-called-father-of-modern-gynecology-actually-tortured-slaves-killed-babies-says-professor/

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Obviously Sims never gave a shit about women suffering...see below. Neither did DR Mengele.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele

Mengele received doctorates in anthropology and medicine from Munich University and began a career as a researcher. He joined the Nazi Party in 1937 and the SS in 1938. Initially assigned as a battalion medical officer at the start of World War II, he transferred to the concentration camp service in early 1943 and was assigned to Auschwitz. There he saw the opportunity to conduct genetic research on human subjects. His subsequent experiments, focusing primarily on twins, had no regard for the health or safety of the victims.[2][3]

[bobbieinok]

39. IIRC Quakers from their earliest

days in the colonies opposed slavery.

And I read thst Hamilton opposed slavery. And what about Thomas Paine?

[Ilsa]

40. I think everyone who owned slaves knew it was wrong on some level.

They did all kinds of rationalizing, like saying the slaves were better off here than where they were stolen from. Other countries had done away with it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

43. It's like you don't understand the difference between right and legal.

[still_one]

45. It was viewed as wrong then, as it is viewed wrong now. Jefferson knew slavery was wrong, and in

fact wrote about it, but lacked the "courage" to do anything about it.

To entertain the mindset that it was "viewed as ok" in some distant past, is bullshit, and in fact is an attempt to legitimize it. This was the same bullshit logic that Bundy used in Nevada when saying "slaves" were "better off", or justifications for the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII, or even the holocaust.

The institutionalization of forced slave labor, and splitting up families, was never viewed as "ok"

[sheshe2]

47. Thanks still_one.

To gloss over how incredibly wrong our history was does not make it right. We had a Civil War declaring loudly that this was not Okay.

I rank Dr. Sims up there with DR. Mengele, neither cared about their patients suffering. None of their patients were willing participants. Contrary to posts here...anesthesia was in fact available to Sims. He chose not to use it. He cut into their bodies. One woman over 13 times.

[kcr]

53. It most certainly was wrong then. Do you think the slaves themselves didn't object?

Do you think no one else objected at the time? Yes, times and standards change, but the word "wrong" is not a new one, trof.

[Ninsianna]

56. It actually was, that's why England did away with slavery before then.

So if you're going to look at what was "normal" back then, you have to look at that whole society, and no western society thought that torturing women on purpose for medical study was "normal".

You can't have different standards for the same times and ones that ignore what was normal, what the mores were and the social norms. None of what this man did was acceptable, as his colleagues and their reactions make clear.

[rusty fender]

58. Of course it was wrong

[Me.]

27. Yes

Cruelty has no time frame

[sheshe2]

41. Cruelty has no time frame, you are correct, me.

And history repeats itself over and over again. Just look at what the GOP is doing to women today, they want to deny women basic healthcare.

[sarge43]

28. I think he wouldn't have purchased/enslaved a white woman and

cut open within anesthesia the most sensitive area of her body. Further, because he said black women didn't feel pain, he made a judgment. If he can, so can we. He tortured helpless women.

[sheshe2]

32. Thank you sarge!

Thank you.

[sarge43]

42. You're welcome, sheshe2

That creature was very selective about whom he tortured. If anyone deserves a statue, that would be his victims.

[BainsBane]

29. His actions were brutal by Antebellum standards

Part of the way planters justified slavery was to claim they treated slaves like family, through paternalism. The view that African American women could not feel paid was not common. Slavery was an inhumane institution, but slaveholders felt compelled to justify their participation in it, particularly since its morality was increasingly under attacked as most of the world have already abolished slavery. Men like that doctor violated the norms of paternalism, and other slaveholders would in all likelihood not condoned his behavior.

If you read any of the slave narratives, such as Frederick Douglass', you will see that all slaveholders were not alike, and virtually every account written by someone who escaped slavery recounts the experience of being sold to a more abusive master. It was that change that often precipitated their escape.

That doctor was a monster by Antebellum standards as well as contemporary ones.

[sheshe2]

34. He was a monster.

He brutalized women, cut into their flesh with not a care for their pain. He killed woman and babies for a quest for knowledge without a care. Dr. Mengele comes to mind.

[Ninsianna]

54. When it comes to documented instances of torture and inhumanit, YES.

People 150 years ago possessed no different mores, morals and standards about the torture of human beings.

That's like saying the "prevailing standards" in 1930's Germany should not be judged by current mores, orals and standards, that where and when they lived, marching people into ovens, gassing them, and then stacking their bodies like wood was just fine, and we'd be a bit unfair to them to say otherwise.

After all, what Dr. Mengele did was no different than Dr. Sims, so why judge them so harshly? As if humanity at any point has somehow thought torture, deliberate violence and the like were accepted mores, morals and standards. They were not.

[The Polack MSgt]

59. Yes we can and SHOULD judge people for what they did

What we should not do is allow the good to erase the evil as if it didn't happen...

Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and laid the frame work for this nation, and also repeatedly raped a person he owned starting when she was 14.

People (all GOPers and a depressing number of Dems) get bent out of shape when people bring that up because it was hidden, downplayed or denied since, well since forever.

The schools gave us all a habit of thought regarding the founding fathers that is all too similar to what church tried to make us believe about the Saint and Martyrs.

All their sins are washed away by the glory of the good they wrought.

But fuck that, St Francis of Assisi taught that rape was a lesser sin than masturbation since rape was opening the way for God's gift of life.

Ben Franklin was a womanizing adulterer and Babe Ruth was a petty drunkard who spent a boatload of cash on prostitutes.

And this asshole was Dr Mengele with a southern drawl.

The only reason this honest appraisal bothers people is that they've been taught that "Great Men" are above reproach, and honest factual assessments are never presented until college.

IF THEN

[Eliot Rosewater]

66. +20000000000000000000000

[treestar]

61. I would judge them by what stand they

took at the time. Male white privilege was firmly in place.

This doctor may have done some good in terms overall of women's medicine, but experimenting on black women clearly values them less than white women. If accepted at that time, we would still admire the protestor more than those who acted on that acceptance. The notion they could not feel pain is pure justification and must have been patently obviously untrue even to him.

[frogmarch]

13. Tear it down

and smash it to bits!

[sheshe2]

14. Yup.

I agree frogmarch.

[MLAA]

15. OMG I didn't know this. Tear it DOWN. Thanks for the education.

[Nevernose]

16. Seems akin to a statue of Dr Mengele

In a Minnesota park.

[sheshe2]

18. Exactly, Nevernose!

[Mosby]

19. I found this about him

The So-Called “Father of Modern Gynecology” Actually Tortured Slaves, Killed Babies, Says Professor

This is the tale of two physicians whose lives in some respects are eerily similar. Both were born in Lancaster County, South Carolina in the early 1800s. Both attended Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia, PA. Both practiced gynecology, and both are remembered for their work with enslaved African women. This is largely where the similarities end. The remainder of the tale shows two physicians in stark contrast.

The Contrast. The first physician is renowned as a surgical genius and is regarded as the father of modern gynecology. He served as president of the American Medical Association, the International Medical Congress and the American Gynecological Society. He is honored by having his name placed on hospitals, dormitories, and endowed chairs. A monument is erected in his honor on the State House grounds in Columbia, SC. The monument reads, “He founded the science of gynecology was honored in all lands and died with the benediction of mankind. The first surgeon of the ages in ministry to women, treating alike empress and slave.”

By contrast, the second physician is considered by many to be more of a butcher than a surgeon. He never completed his studies at Jefferson Medical College. In his incompetence, he killed his first patient. According to his own journal, “When I arrived I found a child about eighteen months old, very much emaciated, who had what we would call the summer complaint, or chronic diarrhea. I examined the child minutely from head to foot. I looked at its gums, and as I always carried a lancet with me and had surgical propensities, as soon as I saw some swelling of the gums I at once took out my lancet and cut the gums down to the teeth. This was good so far as it went. But, when it came time to making up a prescription, I had no more ideas of what ailed the child, or what to do for it, than if I had never studied medicine.” He killed his second patient (another infant) in a similar manner. After the death of his second patient he fled South Carolina, and moved to Alabama where he began to abuse African women and babies in the name of “medical practice.” He was known to use a shoemaker’s awl to pry the bones of African infant skulls into “proper alignment.” He was known to conduct surgery on the genitalia of African women without using anesthesia.

The Shocking Truth. If you are not familiar with this story, then it may come as a shock that these physicians are in fact the same person: J. Marion Sims. By any objective account J. Marion Sims was a butcher. He performed the most horrific, acts of barbarism on African people. He built a makeshift 16-bed “hospital” to house the slaves that he used as experimental subjects. He operated on one enslaved African woman, named Anarcha, over 30 times. Although Sims never used anesthesia prior to cutting on these women, he often gave them opium following the procedures. After being drugged on opium, they moved very little, which aided their recovery. Sims often made a public spectacle of cutting on these women and did so as demonstrations for other physicians. The other physicians would frequently be called upon to hold the women down as they writhed in pain. On one occasion the physicians observing left the procedure as the cries from the woman being cut upon were so dreadful.

http://naturallymoi.com/2013/09/the-so-called-father-of-modern-gynecology-actually-tortured-slaves-killed-babies-says-professor/

[sheshe2]

21. But he said they do not feel pain.

I am going to be sick now.

[keithbvadu2]

20. Don't feel pain? Maybe they had a Jesus shot?

Don't feel pain? Maybe they had a Jesus shot?

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/you-can-t-trust-those-texas-republican

[bobbieinok]

22. Work he did is truly disgusting

First heard about him in the book Medical Apartheid, a book I highly recommend.

His work did develop the methods to treat a difficult problem, rectovaginal fistula -an opening between the vagina and rectum. In this condition urine and/or feces may pass into the vagina, causing very bad smells and infection. Women suffering from this are often shunned because of the repellant odor.

The problem frequently occurs in women of all ages who have been very brutally raped, often multiple times, in the never-ending wars in the Congo. These women are treated by methods he developed in his anesthetic-free operations on his female slaves.

[KitSileya]

67. And know that these poor victims, whom he experimented on,

probably developed these fistulas because they had been raped violently and repeatedly by their masters. So they were victims several times over. He was a very gross person, and does not deserve a statue. Sheshe's comparison to Mengele is very apt.

[mercuryblues]

26. The women he operated on

deserve the statue instead. It is recorded that one woman, Anarcha, endured 30 surgeries in 4 years. All without anesthesia. Lab rats were treated better. Who wants to bet afterwards slave women could not get this surgery if they needed it.

for more details:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2563360/

[sheshe2]

35. Yes!

She deserves the statue not he.

Thank you, mercuryblues.

[VOX]

63. Absolutely. Honoring the women is the only way...

to give some shape and balance back to a world where something as unspeakable as using human beings for guinea pigs is allowed to actually occur.

[NickB79]

30. Hard to use anaesthesia when it wasn't invented yet

All operations were done sans pain management, except for a few shots of moonshine beforehand, and then opium afterwards.

[sheshe2]

44. Well

Anesthesia was first used in 1842 and invented in 1839.

http://www.whoguides.com/who-invented-anaesthesia

Dr Sims...and I use the term DR. lightly....

Experiment's Victims

In Montgomery between 1845 and 1849, Sims experimented by surgery on 12 enslaved women with fistulas, brought to him by their masters; Sims took responsibility for their care on the condition that the masters provide clothing and pay taxes.[7] He named three enslaved women in his records: Anarcha, Betsy, and Lucy. Each suffered from fistula, and all were subjected to his surgical experimentation.[2] From 1845 to 1849 he experimented on each them several times, operating on Anarcha 13 times before her fistula repair was declared a success.[6] She had both vesicovaginal and rectovaginal fistulas, which he struggled to repair.[5]

Although anesthesia had recently become available, Sims did not use any anesthetic during his procedures on Anarcha, Betsy, and Lucy.[2] According to Sims, it was not yet fully accepted into surgical practice and he was unaware of the possibility of the use of diethyl ether.[5][7] However, ether as an anesthetic was available as early as the beginning of 1842.[7] A common belief at the time was that black people did not feel as much pain as white people, and thus did not require anesthesia when undergoing surgery.[8] Nevertheless, in a memoir he stated that "Lucy's agony was extreme...she was much prostrated and I thought she was going to die".[9] After he operated on her in the presence of twelve doctors without anesthetics, she nearly died from septicemia following his experimental use of a sponge to wipe urine from the bladder during the procedure.[6] He did administer opium to the women after their surgery, which was accepted therapeutic practice of the day.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Marion_Sims

There goes your theory.

[NickB79]

69. Unfortunately, that's not how the field of medicine works

Do you know how many years it took before the use of chemotherapeutic drugs as a treatment for cancer was accepted in the field of medicine? The idea of injecting toxic compounds into cancer patients took years to accept as common practice. Or how long it took to convince a majority of surgeons that simply washing their hands was an effective way to prevent post-operational infections? Despite solid evidence, the man responsible for this ground-breaking hypothesis was largely ignored until after his death, despite solid evidence backing his claims: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

In the real world, simply because something is invented does not mean it immediately becomes available for widespread use the next day, next year or even next decade. This is the way science works; you test, and retest, and retest until your evidence is solid. Most scientists are by their nature skeptical and conservative in their judgement, and will often stick to what the prevailing theories of the day say until overwhelming evidence shows otherwise.

Look, this doctor did many things that were horrifying, both by today's and even 1840's standards. However, operating without anesthesia, when it had only begun to be used in surgery 3 years earlier and wasn't widely employed until the 1850's, isn't at the top of the list. Unfortunately, almost every post here puts it at the top of the list.

[sheshe2]

70. Sadly what is not put at the top of the list...

is that Black Women and Women of Color were purchased or "rented" to be used as Guinea Pigs...let that sink in for a minute. They were purchased to be used less humanely than an animal. Sims stated black women do not feel pain like white women???? Excuse me? He was neither a white woman OR a WOC. So it begs the question how he came to this conclusion. You must ask yourself the question why he opiated them afterwards as they screamed in pain. You must ask yourself why 12 doctors left the room to screams of pain as he operated on them WITHOUT anesthesia.

[Me.]

33. If They Couldn't Feel Pain

Why was violence used as a punishment or prod? Wouldn't it be ineffective?

[sheshe2]

36. Fine point, me.

Dayum fine point.

[guillaumeb]

37. Recommended. A striking photo.

You are quite "popular" at DI. At least your name is mentioned by various of the right wing posters. Some of the regulars there seem to post almost exclusively about their hatred of DU and posters here.

Well done.

Amazing bit of history.

[sheshe2]

48. Yes.

I realize that. I find the poor pathetic posters a sad bunch. They have nothing good to say about their most awesome MAGA president ever....they troll DU instead. If they did not, they would have nothing to talk about. Poor pitiful them that their President is a complete failure.

They should be rejoicing that their Prez is awesome!!!! They won!!!!!! Yet sadly they cannot.

[panader0]

46. Good grief. Our history has some very dark places.

No words.

[raven mad]

51. I agree. Also, as much as we love the Tuskeegee Airmen?

The Tuskeegee Institute conducted horrible experiments as well. NO ONE, NO ONE should be "honored" for this shit. Honor women of color INSTEAD, not in addition to!

1. The Tuskegee Experiments

There’s a good reason many African Americans are wary of the good intentions of government and the medical estblishment. Even today, many believe the conspiracy theory that AIDS, which ravaged the African-American community, both gay and straight, was created by the government to wipe out African Americans. What happened in Tuskegee, Alabama in 1932 is one explanation for these fears.

At the time, treatments for syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease that causes pain, insanity and ultimately, death, were mostly toxic and ineffective (things like mercury, which caused, kidney failure, mouth ulcers, tooth loss, insanity, and death). Government-funded doctors decided it would be interesting to see if no treatment at all was better than the treatments they were using. So began the Tuskegee experiments.

Over the course of the next 40 years, the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male denied treatment to 399 syphilitic patients, most of them poor, black, illiterate sharecroppers. Even after penicillin emerged as an effective treatment in 1947, these patients, who were not told they had syphilis, but were informed they suffered from “bad blood,” were denied treatment, or given fake placebo treatments. By the end of the study, in 1972, only 74 of the subjects were still alive. Twenty eight patients died directly from syphilis, 100 died from complications related to syphilis, 40 of the patients’ wives were infected with syphilis, and 19 children were born with congenital syphilis.

http://www.salon.com/2014/09/04/10_of_the_most_evil_medical_experiments_in_history_partner/

[JCMach1]

52. History is sometimes messy

... he essentially figured a way (silver sutures) to repair tears between the anus/lower intestines and the vagina which happened all too frequently during child birth. You can imagine the ongoing hell these women endured from the damage... Constant infections from fecal matter exiting through the vagina.

On the other hand, this fellow was an unreconstructed Confederate his whole life and a confirmed racist.

The treatment for all women in the 19th century was horrific. I actually worked with primary and secondary sources from this doctor.

Did he help women, yes. Did he experiment on women, yes. Did he basically found American gynecology, yes.

Does that mean the statue deserves to go? Not certain on that one.

[kcr]

57. Might as well put up statues of the Nazis who contributed to medicine, then

Such uncertain and messy logic.

[JCMach1]

62. Not the same at all, sorry

His goal was to help people. Fistula was a slow painful death sentence. He was a 19th century doctor, not a Nazi.


Now does a 19th century doctor look like anything you would recognize much today... Not really... Not much.

[progressoid]

64. Angry rec.

[niyad]

68. TAKE IT DOWN NOW!!!!