Maybe Gettysburg Park in PA needs to hear from some DUers. They say they've received

[pnwmom]

Last edited Mon Aug 21, 2017, 06:51 PM - Edit history (2)

no new complaints about their display honoring Confederates in the Battle of Gettysburg -- a display which is paid for with Federal funds.

ON EDIT: many battles were fought in Confederate states, and yet there are very few Union memorials in those states. Overall, there are many more Confederate memorials than Union across the United States.

Only 2 Confederate States -- Florida and Louisiana -- have any Union memorials. Louisiana has 1; and Florida has 13. (But Florida has more than 60 honoring Confederates.)

UNION CIVIL WAR MEMORIALS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Union_Civil_War_monuments_and_memorials

CONFEDERATE CIVIL WAR MEMORIALS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/08/gettysburg_park_hasnt_received.html

As officials across the country examine whether to display Confederate monuments in U.S. cities, the area park dedicated to one of the most noteworthy Civil War battles has no plans to remove anything memorializing Confederates.

In the wake of white supremacist rally and ensuing violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, Gettysburg National Military Park has not received any new complaints about its Confederate monuments at the park, said spokeswoman Katie Lawhon.

More than 1,300 monuments, markers and plaques are housed at the park to memorialize the historic battle, including a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee and a Confederate flag on display in the museum. The park maintains that the memorials are important to the cultural landscape and has no plans to remove any monuments or statues.

"The National Park Service is committed to safe guarding these unique and site-specific memorials in perpetuity, while simultaneously interpreting holistically and objectively the actions, motivations, and causes of the soldiers and states they commemorate," states policy from the U.S. National Parks Service.

[Sneederbunk]

1. It's a Civil War battlefield. The Park will not hear from me.

[beaglelover]

2. +1

[TheOther95Percent]

32. + 2

That's one of the places this statuary belongs.

[susanna]

46. +3 n/t

[appleannie1943]

3. Battlefields, Cemeteries and Museums are the type of places they should be, along with the

history of and reasons why there was a war in the first place. Statues were put in every town in the south, not to honor war soldiers but to put fear in hearts of black people. Those are the ones that should be moved.

[susanna]

15. I agree with you.

Having been to Gettysburg, it would destroy the entire point of the memorial to remove the disputed monuments and statues. The statues and monuments - Union and confederate - actually physically assist in telling the story of Gettysburg. They stand in the rough location where each unit and/or commander was located during the battle itself. As you move among them, the battle takes shape in your mind. Whoever conceived the idea of the park was inspired...I have never seen anything quite like it. It is humbling and moving to traverse the park and realize the scope of the battle at every turn.

We would have a one-sided battlefield that would make zero sense to visitors if they were removed.

Count me in for thinking that they belong at Gettysburg. I have no problem with removing them from towns where they were erected - out of context - to foment bigotry and division.

on edit: swapped 'park' for 'memorial' because 'park' minimized it. My apologies.

[appleannie1943]

23. We spent 3 days at Gettysburg and still did not see it all. You can drive through it in a day

but to get the whole feel and scope of the battle, you have to walk among those statues and stones and plaques and take the time to read, read, and read some more. Standing on the Confederate side, looking across the field and up the hill to where the Union line was, you can just imagine the fear in the young men of the south as Lee ordered them to charge across the large open space and up that long open hill. They were targets, pure and simple. And like you said, those statues help to tell the story of those 3 days in history.

[susanna]

40. Thank you, appleannie. I spent two days, but it was not nearly enough.

I never guessed how much it would affect me.

We drove to get the size/scope and toured the museum on the first day, including the Cyclorama. The next day, we walked various areas of the battlefield to place things we had learned the day before in their context. (I still think we need to go back to cover many things we missed.)

I can say I walked away from Gettysburg changed. It was a profoundly moving place. And yes, the thoughts of so many soldiers on suicide missions - both Union (20th Maine, as an example, holding the flank) and confederate (charging with no cover over a vast, open field) - really humbles you. Could I do that? Would I do that?

Our today was shaped by what happened there during three long, agonizing days many years ago. I do believe that it is hallowed ground in the history of our nation. The Gettysburg Address means so much more to me now after being there.

[zipplewrath]

64. Walked Pickett's Charge

Wife and I took a trip there early on. I knew more than she, and I was showing her around a bit. On the last day, we were standing on the Confederate side looking up towards Cemetery Ridge. She suggested we walk Pickett's Charge. As we did, I sort of narrated what was going on, trying to draw a mental picture of what the confederate soldiers would have seen. To this day she remembers that walk. It's hard to not.

[susanna]

65. It is. It's haunting.

I don't think it will ever leave me, visiting there. And I am glad of it.

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[gopiscrap]

55. I agree, I was just there not too long away

and it's the only place on Union territory that a statue belongs...it would ruin character of the battlefield

[Lithos]

51. Slight disagreement

They were put in the courthouses to honor the local dead - much like the memorials are to WW1 and WW2 vets.

That said, stepping into this void to honor the dead was a group with an agenda - United Daughters of the Confederacy - who used their very large cash reserve to use this as an opportunity to push their Lost Cause (form of White Supremacy) agenda.

L-

[FLPanhandle]

4. Really?

You think a the most famous battlefield of the Civil War should not have any mention of the Confederate Army?

If there is any place appropriate for such a memorial, Gettysbury is the place.

[pnwmom]

5. Statues and monuments go beyond "mention."

[FLPanhandle]

29. As well they should in a place like Gettysburg

You are just trying to confirm RW talking points with their "erasing history" allegation.

Gettysbury is history. Totally appropriate venue.

[Orrex]

50. Do we maintain a lot of monuments to the defeated British army?

Generally, do a lot of battlefield memorials set aside a place to honor and venerate the losers?


Just curious. I'm sure it happens all the time.

[LanternWaste]

57. And it seems your assistance in moving the "erasing history" allegation forward is effective.

And it seems your assistance in moving the "erasing history" allegation forward, simply by referencing the fallacy as a legitimate political position is quite effective. Creative method, form and forum to do this.

The irrational mind has a most difficult time grasping the wholly relevant difference between celebrating a thing of history, and merely learning from it.

[FakeNoose]

6. The Gettysburg monuments are appropriate I believe

The national historic Gettysburg memorial (park) is designed to honor the fallen soldiers of both the North and South. As far as I know there's never been an attempt to politicize the monuments on either side.

Of course that could all change if the fuck-wad conservatives go and stage some kind of Nazi rally, but it hasn't happened yet. I don't see a reason for DU-ers to be looking for trouble in Gettysburg. There's a re-enactment of the main battle every few years I think. If nobody tells Cheeto about it, then it will just be a dress-up costume day for the old guys. No politics there, just history.

[doc03]

7. It's a Civil War battlefield how can you ignore the other side

in the battle?

[hlthe2b]

8. Civil war Battlefields and Museums are exactly where these monuments belong. No complaints here.

[cwydro]

9. None from me either.

This is exactly where these monuments belong.

[SMC22307]

10. This is exactly where they belong... battlefields and museums.

This native Pennsylvanian will reach out to them to voice my support.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. That's actually one place where they should be.

In their proper historical context and not as a comment or endorsement of segregation.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Battlefields are not city parks or state capitols.

[malchickiwick]

13. Gettysburg is one of the few places where such monuments are appropriate. (n/t)

[RelativelyJones]

14. Disagree. They belong there.

[pnwmom]

17. Then why are there no monuments to Union leaders in Charleston,

or other locations of important battles in the Confederate states?

Only 2 Confederate States have any Union memorials. Louisiana has 1 and Florida has 13. (But 61 Confederate memorials.)

For example, in Charleston, South Carolina, where the battle of Fort Sumpter was fought, there is only a monument to Confederate Soldiers, the "defenders."

https://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=53879

[d_r]

30. The flag pole

At ft. Sumter itself is a union memorial.
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Major_Robert_Anderson_monument_at_Fort_Sumter,_SC_IMG_4538.JPG





?itok=krJRM4PX



And this monument lists the name of every Union soldier at ft. Sumter


And the fort itself is a national monument

[cwydro]

42. Exactly.

Thank you.

[LanternWaste]

58. The statistical aberration is more than enough evidence for a biased mind.

The statistical aberration is more than enough evidence for a biased mind.

[RelativelyJones]

45. Wherever the US flag hangs in former Confederate states is a testament to the Union's victory.

[atreides1]

16. Not from me!

I've been there twice, and I believe that is exactly where those monuments, markers, and plaques belong!

[countryjake]

18. I'd suggest any DUers agreeing with you should visit Gettysburg

The entire park is a history lesson of that battle and even someone without a spiritual bone in their body will feel the bloody immensity of what was won and lost there.

Looking at a statue placed on the very spot where a soldier fought or died is a whole lot different than forcing victims of oppression to be bombarded throughout their daily lives with monuments that honor that oppression.

[pnwmom]

19. Then why aren't there more memorials to Union leaders/soldiers

in Confederate States where battles were fought?

For example, Fort Sumpter, where there is only a monument to the "defenders."

https://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=53879

[countryjake]

21. Someday there may be, after more give up a lost cause.

Won't be happening in your or my lifetime, I'm sure, not as long as white supremacy remains embedded in our system, our government.

[tblue37]

22. Apparently there was a concerted push by those who resented all civil rights progress,

including the Daughters of the Confederacy, to put up Confederate monuments as a poke in the eye to black people and anyone else who promoted civil rights. No similar fire existed on the other side to push for Union monuments.

[radius777]

70. answer is obvious - because the South is right wing,

and still resentful of the losing their 'right' to keep blacks in chains.

There should be more union leaders/soldiers on such battlefields, and any glamorizing of the confederacy removed.. iow it should be a museum type setting handled in a neutral, historically correct fashion.

[Glassunion]

72. Why haven't you raised funds, obtained permits, and begun construction?

From my recollection there is a monument to union soldiers at the fort.

But above all (literally), what flag flies over the fort?

You seemed more concerned towards a tit for tat in monuments. A battle field, or museum is an appropriate place for such displays. If you personally feel that there are not enough Union monuments in the south, what exactly are you doing to change that?

[marybourg]

27. You're so right.

This is exactly where statues and plaques explaining the war and its battles belong.

[countryjake]

34. Folks who've never been to Gettysburg should watch ...

Jake Boritt's documentary "The Gettysburg Story" to see and better understand exactly what that park has done with statues to represent the Battle of Gettysburg.

That's the least they should do, especially if they believe that Battlefield's statuary, plaques, and memorials are in any way comparable to the monuments dedicated to racism and white supremacy in honor of the Confederacy that are scattered everywhere across our country.

http://gettysburgstory.com/

I wish that everyone could be able to visit the Gettysburg Battlefield.

[marybourg]

36. Yes, I was there more than 55 years ago,

but I still remember all of it, Very moving.

[countryjake]

68. That's about how long ago it was I saw it for the first time.

Then, I took my own daughter there to see it in the late seventies when I'd heard they'd made changes to the park, expecting to be disappointed by some type of modernization, but I was pleased to find they'd made it even better...acre upon acre of sacred ground.

My last trip was during the Fall not too long ago and with the spectacular foliage and the addition of even more history re-telling each day's battle, it was still an overwhelming experience.

I wish all young people could get to go to Gettysburg; maybe someday it could become a mandatory school trip for the children of this country.

[susanna]

43. Thank you for that link. Going to watch it now.

I never understood what Gettysburg really was until I was there.

I think it is an amazing and powerful place, in part, because of the way the monuments and statues help tell the story.

[countryjake]

67. You're welcome!

I agree, and a lot of the preservation was originally done by the veterans who had survived to tell the truth of what happened there. I've visited Gettysburg a few times, most recently about fifteen years ago, and while much had been changed, remodeled, or updated, the recent addition of even more statues and a much more in-depth on-site recounting of that terrible struggle made the experience all the more powerful.

[LanternWaste]

59. I dig all the Japanese memorials celebrating their heritage located at Pearl Harbor.

I dig all the Japanese memorials celebrating their heritage and achievements located at Pearl Harbor.

[susanna]

41. Yes! And I would add to this...

...you don't just go to Gettysburg on a lark. You drive up a pretty big mountain on a two-lane road for quite a while. It is not easy-off easy-on from the interstate. Random people are not going to be seeing those monuments. People who go there intend to go there. It's not an in-your-face kind of place.

[Bettie]

20. That is an appropriate venue for that stuff

as it is dedicated to the history of the period.

[Historic NY]

24. All battlefields with have monuments to both sides, including the Revolutionary War

[pnwmom]

25. But they don't. For example, Fort Sumpter was a major battle in the Civil War,

and the only monument is to the Confederates, "the defenders."

[Historic NY]

35. Is it at the fort?

[pnwmom]

38. It says Fort Sumpter. And it only refers to Union soldiers as "the enemy."

https://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=53879

Confederate Defenders of Charleston

Fort Sumter 1861-1865


1. Confederate Defenders of Charleston Marker southeast view
left hand points towards the sea to the enemy, shield bearing the South Carolina state seal

Inscription.
To The Confederate Defenders Of Charleston

[Historic NY]

47. Its in Charleston not at Sumter according to the map....

[link:https://www.hmdb.org/map.asp?markers=53879,67961,47478,19019,19212,47474,19141,19169,47582|

[d_r]

49. it isn't at Fort Sumter

It is at White Point Garden. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Point_Garden

White Point Garden is a City of Charleston park, Fort Sumter is a US National Park Service National Monument.

And again, there ARE Union memorials at Fort Sumter.

[obamanut2012]

61. It is Sumter, and no, it isn't at the Fort

Which I have also been to. Ft. Sumter was a UNION fort, with UNION soldiers.

[d_r]

26. Chickamauga

Battlefield and Chattanooga have Union memorials,
https://www.nps.gov/media/photo/gallery.htm?id=3039F79A-1DD8-B71C-07DE3406A00137A1

[Ilsa]

31. I haven't been to the memorial battlefields at Chickamauga, but

the area is beautiful! Georgia has a beautigful state park there.

[pnwmom]

39. Yes, as I said, Florida has 13 Union Memorials -- and 61 for Confederates.

[d_r]

48. Hi, I'm sorry

I don't think I was clear and we are talking about two different things. I wasn't talking about the state of Florida. What I was trying to say that BATTLEFIELDS in the south have memorials to the union, just like BATTLEFIELDS in the north have memorials to the confederate states. I was giving the example of Chickamagua and Chattanooga national military park, a national parks service site that includes battle field areas in south east Tenessee and North Georgia, areas of the "South," that has monuments to union soldiers.

I think that you are talking about two different things here, national park service battlefield sites, and non-battlefield sites. For another example, above when you state that there are no union memorials at Fort Sumter, when there are union memorials at the actual site, and you state that there is only the confederate memorial, but the one you show pictures of is not at Ft. Sumter but at White Point Garden, which is a location in the city of Charleston, not the actual fort that is a national monument and part of the US Park Service.

[madaboutharry]

28. I don't have any issue with monuments at Gettysburg.

It is a battlefield in which the Union Army fought the Confederate Army. That is the appropriate place for such recognition. The purpose is not to claim white supremacy or the righteousness of slavery, it is to recognize history.

[TomSlick]

33. Add me to the list

that says that Civil War battlefields are the one place these memorials are appropriate. Demanding the removal of confederate memorials from battlefields is a reductio ad absurdum and makes Trump's argument for him.

I say gather all the Confederate monuments across the country - including all the southern courthouses - and put them in big groups on battlefields.

[FSogol]

54. Me too. That park is the appropriate place for that stuff. Don't beleive me? Go visit Gettysburg.

[Best_man23]

37. They belong there

And in cemeteries and museums.

[exboyfil]

52. Like others that posted

I disagree as well. I think the only statue of Longstreet is at Gettysburg If any prominent Confederate general deserves a statue, it is him.

In addition from the other comments, the statues serve to educate about the battle.

This brings me to a thought about the Lee statue. Couldn't it not be brought off its pedestal and placed somewhere around the Chancellorsville battlefield. In that it would have more historical value.

[obamanut2012]

62. Charlottesville isn't all that close to Chancellorsville

Which already has a statue of Lee, anyway.

[Lordquinton]

71. Just put all the Lee statues together

One big Lee battalion.

[d_r]

53. This from the OP just isn't correct

Only 2 Confederate States -- Florida and Louisiana -- have any Union memorials. Louisiana has 1; and Florida has 13. (But Florida has more than 60 honoring Confederates.)

Again, I think that you are confusing National Park Service locations with non-battlefield locations. I gave you the example of Chickamaugua where the are literally hundreds of union memorials in Tennessee and Georgia.

For example, you are not counting the monuments at Andersonville, Ga:
https://www.nps.gov/ande/learn/historyculture/nationalcemeterymonuments.htm

I'm not even going to google all the parks in Virginia.

And even then, it is simply not correct. There are Union memorials outside of battlefield parks as well. This is one from Cleveland, Tennessee:

[sfwriter]

56. no, that's where they belong

I think the nps does fantastic work with the Civil War. Those confederate statues were mostly placed by veterans or relatives as opposed to the later wave of "lost cause" memorials, let them stay.

[obamanut2012]

60. CSA statues belong in a museum -- Gettysburg is a museum

As well as a mass grave. I've been there. It is a solemn place, an educational one, a national museum. It is appropriate for these things to be there.

In no way does Gettysburg romanticize either the CSA nor war.

[moondust]

63. Majority of Americans say statues should remain.

Polls shows majority of Americans think Confederate statues should remain

Poll found that 54% of American adults said Confederate monuments ‘should remain in all public spaces’, while 27% called for them to be removed

[VOX]

66. Battlefields-- especially Gettysburg-- are absolutely appropriate places for the monuments...

Gettysburg has numerous unit monuments that list the names of the deceased. For example, there is an 11th Mississippi Infantry monument, in which my great-great-grandfather reluctantly fought as a conscript. Being poor, he was drafted early (no 20-slave exemptions for him). Hospitalized with dysentery in 1862, he regained enough strength to desert from Lee's army (not unlike the protagonist in the book/film "Cold Mountain&quot , but was caught at home and given a choice: Go back to the front, or you'll be shot right where you stand. So back he went, where he was later captured by Union troops at Petersburg, and then imprisoned at City Point, Virginia. (He had retained the rank of private throughout the war.) Then the poor guy caught smallpox, which nearly killed him. When he finally made it home, he had enough strength left to move his family to West Texas, an utterly good-forsaken place in 1865.

I'm glad he survived all his struggles, as his offspring that forms the ancestral link was born AFTER the war. If he'd died of wounds or infection, I wouldn't exist.

[susanna]

69. Thank you so much for telling your family's story, VOX.

It is important. I always wonder if I am the only one with a story like that.

I have a great-great grandfather who fought for both the south and the Union. He was a very poor sharecropper. He was drafted into the confederate army by his landowner. After a few months in service, he was captured at Vicksburg. He spent two years in a Union POW camp (Camp Douglas in Illinois). After his release, he switched sides to the Union army on his way home to Alabama. He joined up and served with the Tennessee Union forces to make his way home.

Had he died, I would not be here to chime in about the statues at Gettysburg....and, for me, my support of them on that battlefield is quite clear. They actually tell a story. Much like you did here.

Peace to you, VOX.