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Has our government defined what it means to "win" in Afghanistan? (Original Post) Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2017 OP
We are committed to providing tRump with a photo op ProudLib72 Aug 2017 #1
Succeeding in removing the spotlight from Trump's many crimes and mistakes guillaumeb Aug 2017 #2
What Constitutes A Win?..... global1 Aug 2017 #3
No but it will be great, beleive me. doc03 Aug 2017 #4
We can celebrate with Trump steaks Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2017 #6
A Starbucks on every corner. Nt. Locut0s Aug 2017 #5
I wanted taco trucks on every corner, dammit Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2017 #8
Never. They have not a f'ing clue. 7wo7rees Aug 2017 #7
Even 'Nam ostensibly had a goal Algernon Moncrieff Aug 2017 #11
I don't believe there was ever anything to 'win' in Afghanistan bigtree Aug 2017 #9
Forever "graveyard of empires" always has been, always will be. 7wo7rees Aug 2017 #13
He's continuing the war to avoid being called as loser. NutmegYankee Aug 2017 #10
No...there is no definition of "win" in Afghanistan. Docreed2003 Aug 2017 #12
Avoid withdrawing on my watch, and admitting we can't win invading countries Hoyt Aug 2017 #14
Could not agree more. Algernon Moncrieff Sep 2017 #16
I think that Trump's definition of winning is: NCjack Aug 2017 #15
This Algernon Moncrieff Sep 2017 #17

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
1. We are committed to providing tRump with a photo op
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:12 PM
Aug 2017

Him posing in front of a banner that reads "Mission Accomplished".

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. Succeeding in removing the spotlight from Trump's many crimes and mistakes
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:12 PM
Aug 2017

is what is intended. So if the "war President" can remove that focus and improve his ratings that counts as a win.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
11. Even 'Nam ostensibly had a goal
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:26 PM
Aug 2017

Preserving the Saigon government and preventing dominoes from toppling. It was a bad goal, but a goal nonetheless. I have no idea what the end game is supposed to be.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
9. I don't believe there was ever anything to 'win' in Afghanistan
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:24 PM
Aug 2017

...as President Obama once declared there was, and as Trump asserted yesterday.

There has been, however, much to lose in this repeated flailing of our military forces against the Afghan people; against the remnants and ghosts of al-Qaeda. We have already been shown, repeatedly, that our government-building efforts behind the force of our military in the Middle East has produced more individuals inclined or resigned to violent expressions of resistance than it's succeeded in establishing any of the 'democracy' or 'stability' promised.

For an economically crippled superpower pushing up against the admitted limitations of our military, that's enough for the U.S. to declare 'success' and 'progress,' and leave when the president says he will -- if not ahead of time. Instead, these successive presidencies have been content to tolerate the self-escalated sacrifices of our our soldiers as our troops eventually hunker down in Afghanistan, tolerating the tragically wounded and killed and waiting for some moment to declare 'victory' out of their desperate defense of their own lives against the Afghans that the presidents and the Pentagon claim we've been liberating.

read more:

Perpetuating the Afghanistan Folly

Docreed2003

(16,859 posts)
12. No...there is no definition of "win" in Afghanistan.
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:26 PM
Aug 2017

Any hope of a stabilized country in Afghanistan was killed when Massoud was assassinated in the days before 9/11. With him died the hope of a modernized Afghanistan, at least for now.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
14. Avoid withdrawing on my watch, and admitting we can't win invading countries
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:33 PM
Aug 2017

where the people don't trust us. Unless something drastic happens, there is no reason to invade another country. It is possible we have to strike occasionally, but not often and it has to be done with a lot of support from other countries. No more george war bush Crusades.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
16. Could not agree more.
Mon Sep 4, 2017, 12:40 AM
Sep 2017

In WWII, we were greeted as liberators because we were liberators, and we were fighting nations that had declared war on the US. Once we got to Germany and Japan, we had an equally clear and compelling goal - conquest and destruction of the existing regime by any means necessary.

Since WWII, we have gotten involved in several types of invasion/war:

- "Banana Republic" invasions to effect regime change (Haiti, Panama, Grenada, the DR) - usually low risk/low reward affairs

- Anti-communist intervention (Korea, 'Nam) - the best we did was a stalemate in Korea. Generally, an unworkable strategy.

- Middle East invasion. Kuwait worked because it was a war of liberating one state from an aggressor, and we had a broad coalition of support. not so with the Iraq invasion.We have no idea what we are trying to accomplish in Afghanistan at this point, so we are accomplishing nothing. We are trying to support the Iraquis in their liberation of Islamic State -- with limited success.

- Intervention to prevent genocide. The invasion of the former Yugoslavia (with the support of NATO) to prevent the further slaughter of the Kosovar Muslims by the Serbs was largely successful.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
15. I think that Trump's definition of winning is:
Tue Aug 22, 2017, 06:49 PM
Aug 2017

1. He is able to limp along and lose no more ground in Afghanistan during his presidency, and
2. A future president is forced to withdraw and be tagged as the guy who "lost Afghanistan to the Taliban." (Triple crowing points will be claimed by Trump if the the "loser" is a DEM.) [TRUMP: "My plan was working, then the DEMs wrecked everything!"]

It is bad enough to die there, but to die with no plan to win is also like killing their families.

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